You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
aracer - MemberI suggest you try putting "Scotland" as country of birth when going through Australian immigration
I checked in with my brother, he's done it twice, no bother. He's incredibly white so they welcomed him with open arms. As far as he can remember, same was true of Canada, the USA and Cuba (though that last one raised some eyebrows when he went back to the states), new zealand, samoa, thailand, china, russia, malaysia and singapore. And probably some others, I can't keep up.
I've been to Australia 4 times - Scotland is always the country of birth that I put down. No problems ever. Same with every other country in the world that has had such a requirement. Never had to give anyone a geography lesson yet.
They must just be racist against the English then. England got crossed out when I put that.
aracer - MemberThey must just be racist against the English
If there's one thing you can say with confidence about australians, it's that they're not just racist against the English.
Since I dont know your circumstances or Binners or Junkyards I cant say.
I'm a left-leaning voter living in Wales, and binners and Junkyard are similar in Northern England.
Are their affairs in their own hands whilst there's a Tory government?
They must just be racist against the English then.
To be fair, there are a lot of folk around the world who don't like the English. Just like there are a lot of folk around the world who don't like Americans and Australians. In my experience, people abroad change their attitude towards me significantly when I tell them that I'm Scottish and not English and it's never been a negative change. Personally I dont know why this is and I like a lot of people in England.
Spanish foreign minister confirms iS out of EU for at least 5 years etc etc
SNP rep says he's bluffing
Who is your money on?
I hope Ewan Morrison's wrong... whether the vote goes yes or no it suggests there won't be a healthy atmosphere afterwards -
I would say that since the outcome of most UK general elections is determined in England then Yes the people of england have control over their own affairs. No individual can expect to always have the government they choose but a nation or a country should always have the government it elected by whatever democratic system is in place in that country.
[quote=big_n_daft said]Spanish foreign minister confirms iS out of EU for at least 5 years etc etc
Source as nothing via Google
I would say tha Binners and I have to accept that we will lose as many elections as we win [ though we probably consider Nu Labour as losing 2- 0 rather than 8-0 defeat with the Tories] . However it is a nation and you can take that to some degree.
I would like to think it will lead to less centralisation/more federalism in england but who knows
I would say that since the outcome of most UK general elections is determined in England then Yes the people of england have control over their own affairs
You're giving far too much importance to these arbitrary lines. I do not like the arbitrary lines one bit.
I would say that since the outcome of most UK general elections is determined in England then Yes the people of england have control over their own affairs. No individual can expect to always have the government they choose but a nation or a country should always have the government it elected by whatever democratic system is in place in that country.
I posted the stats up above. People in England actually gets the government they voted for less than people in Scotland (ie if you multiply population by the number of times they didn't get the government they voted for, the figure for England is higher than for Scotland).
The nation of the UK gets the government it elects, the country of Sctoland gets the government it elects in its devolved parliament everybody (except the English) should be happy 😉
People in England actually gets the government they voted for less than people in Scotland (ie if you multiply population by the number of times they didn't get the government they voted for, the figure for England is higher than for Scotland)
You just proved there are 11 x more people in england than scotland
Well done
aracer - Member
...The nation of the UK gets the government it elects...
Not as long as there is a House of Lords.
Junkyard - lazarus
big_n_daft said » Spanish foreign minister confirms iS out of EU for at least 5 years etc etcSource as nothing via Google
Just had a Spanish government minister on Newsnight who went through all the 'hoops' needed to join - said he reckoned 5 years. Said Junckers had said 5 years for a new member.
SNP chap disputed the process as Scotland could negotiate under a different 'article' as they would be negotiating from within.
Why would you want to multiply population by the number of times they didnt get the government they voted for ? Is it really 11 x less democratic when England doesnt get the government England voted for than it is when Scotland doesnt get the government it voted for.Or 18 x worse than Wales voting Labour and getting Tory etc.
Go on the iplayer in 20 mins, or check out the latest tweets from the Newsnight team
The Scottish UKIP MEP will be ecstatic
Nothing to do with English Nationalists seeing their milch cow disappearing is it?
you are completely deluuuuuuuuuuusional if you think Scotland is England's "milch cow". At best it has been no poorer than many other parts of the UK; at worst it has been a drag on the UK's economic development. The idea that Scotland is some sort of Congo-style colony being squeezed until the pips squeak by some English Leopold is just so far detached from reality that you should probably have a sit down.
konabunny - Member
....The idea that Scotland is some sort of Congo-style colony being squeezed until the pips squeak by some English Leopold is just so far detached from reality that you should probably have a sit down.
I'm in good company, and around 2 million of them will be voting accordingly.
"A country is acountry if the people living there think it is."
I suggest you try putting "Scotland" as country of birth when going through Australian immigration and see whether they agree with you (I'm sure that also applies in other places)
I have been doing that for 40 years.
why do people just lie and make stuff up because they think it makes them look good?
the Australian landing card doesn't even ask for country of birth. it asks for "nationality as shown on passport".
konabunny - Member
"I have been doing that for 40 years."
why do people just lie and make stuff up because they think it makes them look good?
the Australian landing card doesn't even ask for country of birth. it asks for "nationality as shown on passport".
So what? I think they changed it to that wording in the 90s.
I still put Scottish and have no problems. Every Scot I know does the same. And that's on any form, not just that one.
It also says "country of residence" clearly I didn't quite remember the form accurately. Though I do distinctly remember putting "British" in one box and "England" in another and having the immigration official cross out England.
So what? I think they changed it to that wording in the 90s.
I still put Scottish and have no problems. Every Scot I know does the same. And that's on any form, not just that one.
1) you're lying about your story of filling in immigration forms with answers to questions that aren't even asked. don't try to pretend you remember every field of every form you've filled in. it's just nonsense. 😆
2) you'd be plain wrong and pigheaded to fill in "Scottish" in response to a question of "nationality as listed in passport" because Scotland is not a state, there is no Scottish citizenship and no Scottish passports 😆
3) you're lying when you say every Scot you know does the same as you. not even the most pigheaded pub bore nationalist goes around asking every Scot they know what they write on Australian landing cards ffs 😆
When you're in a lie hole and you've been shown to be a fantasist - put down the spade and walk away! 😆
2) you'd be plain [s]wrong and[/s] pigheaded
So, Scottish then......
I still put Scottish and have no problems. Every Scot I know does the same. And that's on any form, not just that one.
I can see it now, Epic filling out a "how was your stay form" in a hotel whilst on holiday. And just scrawling in massive letters.
SCOTTISH
Ahhhh, good bit of prejudice with my morning coffee. No finer way to start the day.
In other news, has anything actually happened over the last 24hrs other than the increasingly shrill shouts of both camps reiterating what makes their positions look best, but largely regardless of the factual accuracy?
[img] 
[/img]
try writing scottish again and this fella wants a word
[img] 
[/img]
and he will be sending you home
[img] 
[/img]
I still put Scottish and have no problems. Every Scot I know does the same. And that's on any form, not just that one.
[img] 
[/img]
I see a whole army of my countrymen in defiance of tyranny. You have come before passport control in Australia as free men, and free men you are.
I see there's been a symbolic devo-max agreement signing. Is this the same agreement as was signed last week? The No campaign appear increasingly desperate.
The No campaign appear increasingly desperate
Well with only 99% of opinion polls during the referendum campaign showing support for the No vote, Scots who support the union must be getting worried. I certainly would be.
The offending article
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992
They wouldn't lie to us, surely.
....The idea that Scotland is some sort of Congo-style colony being squeezed until the pips squeak by some English Leopold is just so far detached from reality that you should probably have a sit down.
I'm in good company, and around 2 million of them will be voting accordingly.
If 2million Scots think the way you do epicyclo, independence will not go well. Will our children be raised with such a warped sense of reality as you?
This latest 'agreement' encapsulates the issue. We (the Westminster parties) have decided between ourselves and without consulting you what limited responsibilities - but not necessarily the funding - we shall grant you when, as we expect, you vote No.
The patronising arrogant cheek of them!
The patronising arrogant cheek of them!
You mean Scottish politicians such as Gordon Brown who represents Scots with a huge majority and who has been arguing for greater devolved powers ?
The patronising arrogant cheek of them!
Or perhaps AS refuses to discuss anything other than a complete YES!!!
Of course you may interpret things whichever way you want.
konabunny - Member
1) you're lying about your story of filling in immigration forms with answers to questions that aren't even asked. don't try to pretend you remember every field of every form you've filled in...
I'm not lying. I don't have to remember because it is what I do on any form that asks for nationality. I have done it all my life.
As for
I assume you don't know many Scots who support independence then.3) you're lying when you say every Scot you know does the same as you. not even the most pigheaded pub bore nationalist goes around asking every Scot...
I don't really care if you believe me, but piemonster explains it all for you
So, Scottish then......
Anyhow, we're on to max STW troll mode now cpmplete with personal insults, so 'nuff said.
It was meant as a friendly Troll
FWIW
It was meant as a friendly Troll
@piemonster it just shows the lie to the fact this is a friendly campaign, it doesn't take much for people to go off on one.
Newsnight last night we had the SNP on, you have to hand it to them for pigheaded stubbornness on two issues, EU and the pound. (@JY you aksed a prior poster about his source, well the guy was interviewed on TV and thats what he said backing up comments earlier in the day from Junker)
In the face of a number of senior EU officials making it clear a Scottish application for EU membership would be on a 5 year timetable, that they would have to take the euro sooner or later and a very thinly veiled swerve on the question of whether Spain would block the Scots application we have the Scot who intends to represent a country of 5m people telling the EU how its going to be, an orderly transition with no new membership application.
On the currency the SNP seems to be trying to make something of Darling's comment that "Scotland could use the pound", in terms of it being a fully exchangeable international currency yes Scotland can but with no control of interest rates or monetary policy that would be even worse than the fudge that is the euro. Given it's reliance on future oil revenues Scotland might actually be better served using the USD.
Why is there is stupid idea going around that SNP politicians are any less pig headed and more more capable of telling the truth that any other politician in the world ? I think its a brilliant idea that a few million people have that much faith in 'their' local politician they are voting for what ever counts for independence these days...
Good luck 😉 You'll need it...
piemonster - Member
It was meant as a friendly Troll
Sorry, didn't intend that to be directed at you.
@epic, by the way when you fill in a form/drop down list on the internet I assume you select United Kingdom there never being a Scotland option ?
Why is there is stupid idea going around that SNP politicians are any less pig headed and more more capable of telling the truth that any other politician in the world ?
Probably the bit where AS declares anyone who disagrees with him to be scaremongering, lying, biased or just plane mad even if they are right.
@epic, by the way when you fill in a form/drop down list on the internet I assume you select United Kingdom there never being a Scotland option ?
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection[/url]
Whatever the result, we may be living through interesting times...
jambalaya - MemberIn the face of a number of senior EU officials making it clear a Scottish application for EU membership would be on a 5 year timetable,
Which, of course, is genuinely a made up number- joining the EU doesn't work on any timetable, whether 5 years, 18 months or a century. If you doubt it, just look at previous accession timescales. Did any of these senior people mention the EU treaty that specifies the 5 year timescale?
It seems like the "wait your turn in the queue" comment people keep making which also has zero basis in fact.
I can see it now, Epic filling out a "how was your stay form" in a hotel whilst on holiday. And just scrawling in massive letters.
[b]SCOTTISH [s] TONGS[/s] YA BASS[/b]
cheers
Danny B (Scottish)
jambalaya - Member
@epic, by the way when you fill in a form/drop down list on the internet I assume you select United Kingdom there never being a Scotland option ?
Offhand I can't think of one I have filled in which needed nationality.
I select UK for address. That's location.
klumpy - Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
Ta 🙂
Offhand I can't think of one I have filled in which needed nationality.
So you have never checked in on line for a flight?
I know BA ask and you can only choose UK.
gobuchul - Member
So you have never checked in on line for a flight?
No, but no doubt I will have to at some point. Unlikely to be with BA anyway.
Anyhow must sign out now, got some Yes campaigning to do.
I'll leave you folk to Tommy Sheridan's tender mercies...
No, but no doubt I will have to at some point. Unlikely to be with BA though.
Seems strange that for someone for obviously travels a lot, as he has filled in so many landing cards, doesn't use on-line check in. Especially as they are such a cybernat.
I pretty certain every airline I have used doesn't give you any option but UK.
That Sheridan Fella was on the radio yesterday. My God...... the anger and bitterness spewing out of his mouth was frankly quite depressing. He for many English, sums up how we think they feel about us.
Which is why so many English are saying 'get on with it'.
Aye, you can definitely trust something that comes out of Tommy Sheridan's mouth...
I'll leave you folk to Tommy Sheridan's tender mercies..
Why would you trust him anymore that the Westminster Eton Schoolboys?
He's a convicted liar.
As for 100 years of oil off the west coast of Scotland nonsense. Yes, there may be but have you any idea how difficult and expensive it is to get it out?
Do you actually believe that the only reason it is not extracted is because of Trident submarines? Why would that prevent oil exploration?
There is also reckoned to be massive oil supplies in the deep ocean but no-one is talking about getting that out yet.
The ESTA Visa waiver website only offers United Kingdom(GBR). But what do they know anyway?
I didn't try SQL injection on their website as I don't especially fancy annoying the US government, being the craven kind of sassenach that I am.
It seems like the "wait your turn in the queue" comment people keep making which also has zero basis in fact.
@Northwind, no the EU officials are telling us the facts about the process. They where talking about how long it takes in practice. Lots of countries have been through the process and there is a current queue. The process requires unanimous approval at various stages and ratification by member states parliaments.
In order to get into the EU the Scots are going to have to turn up with a big cheque book, a compliant attitude and a lot of patience. The EU are irked by all the UK opt outs not least the currency, a new member is going to have to bend over and take everything the EU has to offer.
The former President of the European Parliament, Pat Cox, has said an independent Scotland could negotiate continued membership of the European Union in the timescale set out by the pro-independence Scottish Government.
“Done thoroughly and expeditiously an internal enlargement could be negotiated during this interim period between the referendum and the independence of Scotland in 2016,” Cox wrote in an article for The Scotsman newspaper Tuesday.
Scotland cannot be thrown out of EU
I didn't try SQL injection on their website as I don't especially fancy annoying the US government, being the craven kind of sassenach that I am.
@oldandpastit, well if you did they could probably guaranty you some long term accommodation for free 😉 A Scottish guy wrote a book about such a trip, The Gang of One. It's a good book, worth a read.
@gavstorie, you have to understand the politics of the EU, its like trying to herd cats. You have the Spanish government in Madrid who will do all they can to block Catalan moves for independence (it wasn't so long a go they basically wouldn't pick any players from Barcelona for the national side, it was dominated by Real Madrid). Blocking a Scottish application, possibly even permanently, would send a very strong signal to the Catalans.
gavstorie - No one is suggesting that Scotland will not be able to apply and join the EU.
The questions are:
How long will that take?
What will they have to accept if they do?
Lots of countries have been through the process and there is a current queue.
queue is a bit misleading, it's not like a deli counter where you don't get served until the person in front of you. turkey has been in the queue for ages and it keeps getting leapfrogged (frogleapt?) for mysterious reasons...
@gavstorie, I didn't get past the bit where he was suggesting Putin could base his subs there if the EU didn't let them in.
Gavstorie - thats set up as if he's giving evidence, do we know who to or where?
Doesn't appear to be uk parliament home affairs committee or scots parliament, as they have quite different setups 😕
No one is suggesting that Scotland will not be able to apply and join the EU.The questions are:
How long will that take?
What will they have to accept if they do?
@gobuchal - actually its not clear they would ever be accepted. Spain could veto permanently. Loss to the EU one country of 5m, gain to Spain of blocking Catalan independence permanently.
Not sure of the thread has discussed already planned SNP cuts to the Scottish NHS at a time when UK funding is increasing ?
IFS report published last week [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/11/scotland-nhs-not-better-independence-institute-fiscal-studies ]link[/url]
NHS whistleblower leaks funding gap for Scottish NHS, SNP plans to make cuts afer referendum [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29213416 ]link[/url]
@gobuchal - actually its not clear they would ever be accepted. Spain could veto permanently. Loss to the EU once country of 5m, gain to Spain of blocking Catalan independence permanently.
or more likely get another country to veto (stops a Catalan backlash in Spain) in return for a few favours at the next negotuating table
the EU is about horsetrading, Spain will have influence and "friends" they can use to insist that iS remain a "candidate" country virtually indefinitely as a demonstartion of soft power to the Catalan and Basques
jambalaya - MemberLots of countries have been through the process and there is a current queue.
No, there isn't- accession is a parallel process, each country proceeds at its own rate. Molgrips was in the queue for ages and other, faster countries kept passing him. And Jean-Claude Juncker's been clear that Scotland joining the EU wouldn't be subject to the restrictions on enlargement which will delay any new applicants for 5 years.
As for "lots of countries", no other country has ever been in the position Scotland will- even if it's decided that we need to be treated completely as a new country, with no fast track process or bridging treaty, the existing membership will still ease accession, as will Scotland's existing compliance with accession criteria (I don't know if we're fully compliant; we're certainly far closer than is typical)- most new members have to do a lot of work to get to that point, and that's what takes the longest time in typical accessions.
The range of times to join are huge- Finland managed it in 3 years, Scotland would almost certainly have a better starting point even than them.
Molgrips was in the queue for ages and other, faster countries kept passing him.
😆
I'm afraid I disagree. Scotland starting point is that it does not exist as a nation with a track record of economic performance. It will be difficult for the EU to consider Scottish accession until it is clear what iScotland looks like. That will require a large part of the separation negotiations with rUK to be complete and budgets for an iS to be created so that contributions can be set.The range of times to join are huge- Finland managed it in 3 years, Scotland would almost certainly have a better starting point even than them.
Once it is clear what iS looks like, I agree that it will not take long to join.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU
It's always good to pay attention to the words used when you put something forward for your argument. The only thing in that link attributed to the Spanish is that they would not object to Scotland becoming independent. Aileen McLeod MSP has somehow taken this as proof of Westminster "scaremongering" and a guarantee of continued EU membership from Scotland.
What Jose-Manuel Garcia actually said was:
"We don't interfere in other countries' internal affairs. If Britain's constitutional order allows, and it seems that it does allow, Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this."
Regarding EU membership he said:
"They have to resolve a mountain of problems, as Better Together has explained very well. You have to achieve candidate status. You have to negotiate 35 chapters. It has to be ratified by the institutions of the EU. It then has to be ratified by 28 national parliaments."
he did not at any point say they would veto it [ can you find a link where anyone spanish has said they will?] and he was asked directly so it seems safe to assume they wont veto it as he could have said Yes we will veto it.What he did was explain what he thought had to happen.
He [tommy sheridan]for many English, sums up how we think they feel about us.
If you wish to think that the unelected convicted liar is indicative of a nation then you are foolish.
It is like claiming nick griffin or the loonies in UKIP are indicative of all the english.
Spain will have influence and "friends" they can use to insist that iS remain a "candidate" country virtually indefinitely as a demonstartion of soft power to the Catalan and Basques
Yes spain the power house of Europe will unleash it friends to block iS - they are on record as saying they wont and their own fishery industry will have problems with the lack of access to Scottish waters
Molgrips was in the queue for ages and other, faster countries kept passing him.
We are really not worthy of such acts of comedic genius
I wish I had thought of that
Utterly Brilliant.
he did not at any point say they would veto it [ can you find a link where anyone spanish has said they will?] and he was asked directly so it seems safe to assume they wont veto it as he could have said Yes we will veto it.What he did was explain what he thought had to happen.
Come on!
If you ask a politician a question, and he doesn't say yes, and he doesn't say no, then you're off your rocker to suggest in any way that [i]"it seems safe to assume they wont "[/i]
If it was Cameron being asked a question on privatising the NHS and he answered like that, you'd be all over it like a tramp on chips!
Billy Bragg's thoughts on Scottish versus British nationalism...
You have a point to be fair and I have overstated it. I retract that interpretation*. It is probably better/more accurate to say that he sat on the fence so as to not interfere in internal UK affairs.
However there is still not one comment from the Spanish saying they will veto despite all the unionists saying they will.
You can interpret that how you wish as well.
* so it seems safe to assume they wont veto- I agree that is over egging it
However there is still not one comment from the Spanish saying they will veto despite all the unionists saying they will.
You can interpret that how you wish as well.
As you said yourself,
.so as to not interfere in internal UK affairs.
The Spanish want to deal with the Catalan issue themselves and do not want to be seen openly interfering with other countries.
Besides, they have a very strong position when it comes to negotiation regarding Scottish entry into the EU, why would they show their hand early?
You can bet that if they think Scotland getting into the EU will strengthen calls for an independent Catalonia, then they will do what they can to prevent it.
[i]Billy Bragg's thoughts on Scottish versus British nationalism.[/i]
No thanks....will pass on that!
I'm not commenting on BT claiming a Spanish veto. I'm commenting on yS claiming that there being no Spanish desire to interfere in the independence of Scotland means that Scotland will be granted immediate automatic entry to the EU as soon as independence is declared.
Juan-Manuel Garcia, Spanish Foreign Minister:
[i]"We don't interfere in other countries' internal affairs. If Britain's constitutional order allows, and it seems that it does allow, Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this."[/i]
Aileen McDonald, MSP:
[i]"The reality is, as legal, constitutional and European experts have confirmed, that Scotland is part of the territory of the European Union and the people of Scotland are citizens of the EU. There is no provision for either of these circumstances to change upon independence, and the rest of the UK will be exactly the same position. We will both be successor states, with exactly the same status within the EU."[/i]
Viviane Reding, Vice-President of the European Commission, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship:
[i]"The Commission's position on the issue that you raise has been stated on a number of occasions since 2004. The Treaties apply to the Member States. When part of the territory of a Member State ceases to be a part of that State, e.g. because that territory becomes an independent state, the treaties will no longer apply to that territory. In other words, a new independent region would, by the fact of its independence, become a third country with respect to the Union and the Treaties would, from the day of its independence, not apply anymore on its territory. Under Article 49 of the Treaty on European Union, any European state which respects the principles set out in Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union may apply to become a member of the EU. If the application is accepted by the Council acting unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the consent of the European Parliament, an agreement is then negotiated between the applicant state and the Member States on the conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties which such admission entails. This agreement is subject to ratification by all Member States and the applicant state.
As far as EU citizenship is concerned, this is not an autonomous status but is dependent on national citizenship. In accordance with Article 20 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU), only persons holding the nationality of a Member State are
EU citizens. EU citizenship is additional to and does not replace national citizenship."[/i]
One of these statements draws inferences from another one of these statements that are entirely at odds with the third of these statements. I'm sure you can work out which is which.
Ox - Stop that. That's not what they want to hear.*
*Despite it been clearly stated on numerous occasions.