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CA?
This thread needs a glossary.
Indeed pie monster - giving ducks history I think we can assume who that is aimed at.
Not really - engaging with CEOs, Gov officials etc. They tend to have a good perspective on things and have got to where they are by seeing thru BS. Yesterday was mainly major corporations from some of the fastest growing parts of the world - Asia, Africa and LatAm and no one could make sense of what was going on in Scoltand especially as it may affect their inward investment into the UK. With the MPs there seemed to be genuine shock that it is so close and dismay. But MPs tend to be behind the curve generally any way IMO.
One scottish CEO worried about lack of access to these events and assistance for his business, UK government guarantees, help with export finance etc. Just little details and minor in relation to giving Alex a bigger throne obviously.
Sounds exactly like my dinner parties too. I go through Ferrero Rocher like you wouldn't believe 🙂
As you'd expect, foreigners have wildly differing opinions just as much as British or Scottish people. My US relatives are all of the opinion that they got independence two centuries ago and haven't regretted it for a second. Friends and business associates in other European countries say that if it makes Scotland more like other normal European countries then it's definitely a good thing.
One scottish CEO worried about lack of access to these events and assistance for his business, UK government guarantees, help with export finance etc.
You know that Scottish businesses often have to pay for this help? Whisky producers get charged for events held in embassies etc. An independent Scotland will be more interested in helping Scottish businesses, instead of them being a small part of the UK's business interests.
You know that Scottish businesses often have to pay for this help? Whisky producers get charged for events held in embassies etc. An independent Scotland will be more interested in helping Scottish businesses, instead of them being a small part of the UK's business interests.
That claim was quickly proved to be made up, why are you reviving it?
UK has 200 foreign missions that support Uk business
iS plan 92
Has it?
200 embassies for the whole of the UK vs 92 for just Scotland - that sounds a very good deal to me. Quality not quantity.
Will Scotland be setting up its own embassies around the world or having a room in each British embassy?
Probably depends on the country - of course Scotland is entitled to a share of those overseas properties, since we helped buy them, but it'd be impractical to sell all the embassies, split the money, and then everyone buy new embassies. More likely that in some countries we'd share facilities, in others Scotland would take over other UK-owned property (the UK owns or leases over 5,000 properties overseas, apparently), or there would be a cash settlement.
Our embassy network will be of a similar size to other countries our size.
It seems to me that the number of things we will be sharing and with currency union we would have to come to some sort of union, oh!!
Ben
of course Scotland is entitled to a share of those overseas properties
Stop making it up!
Ah, Adam Tomkins - he's not exactly impartial 😉
Hmm,
professor of public law at university of Glasgow, world renowned, called to give evidence in front of parliamentary committee
or bloke in a bike shop with an [s]SNP election manifesto [/s] white paper thats been repeatedly proven to be nonsense...
which opinion on the technicalities of international law do you think I'm going to put my money on?
Can't see the bit that states Scotland will get to keep things overseas;
1.When part or parts of the territory of a State separate from that State and form a successor State, and unless the predecessor State and the successor State otherwise agree:
(a) immovable State property of the predecessor State situated in the territory to which the succession of States relates shall pass to the successor State;
(b) movable State property of the predecessor State connected with the activity of the predecessor State in respect of the territory to which the succession of States relates shall pass to the successor State;
(c) movable State property of the predecessor State, other than that mentioned in subparagraph (b), shall pass to the successor State in an equitable proportion.
Yes it was debunked 5 minutes after it was mentioned on radio 4, that is why the story died. Or is everyone who debunked it lying including civil servants?
At the same time the scotch trade association expressed concern that they sell to 200 markets and the iS plan is for only 92 missions
Come on project feart you can do better than this 😉
teamhurtmore - Member
Indeed pie monster - giving ducks history I think we can assume who that is aimed at.
Its aimed at you of course,given your history of making up abbreviations and new names for everything that doesn't fit in with your retirement plan,I thought you would be pleased.
Can't see the bit that states Scotland will get to keep things overseas;
Can't see the bit where it doesn't either - because we're talking about immovable state property that's not in the territory of the predecessor state.
Or is this another one of those cases where for some reason we don't get a share of assets we've helped pay for?
Not much use in repeatedly quoting international law when its in iScotlands favour (Oil for example) and then getting all huffy and 'not fair' about it when it goes against you, is there Ben!
Can't see the bit where it doesn't either - because we're talking about immovable state property that's not in the territory of the predecessor state.
It would be quite a long document if it listed everything that won't happen. Maybe you could point out the UN law that matches your position?
Or is this another one of those cases where for some reason we don't get a share of assets we've helped pay for?
You have a choice to keep all of the UKs assets, the Yes campaign had the choice to inform the Scottish people what the most likely situation was if they chose otherwise.
You will see in the quote above that Scotland gets to keep lots of assets based in Scotland where the majority is paid for by people outside Scotland - swings and roundabouts.
When Czechoslovakia broke up, the division was done by population - to start with they shared embassies, but what happened with most was that the Czech Republic bought out the Slovak share in most and the Slovaks bought or leased their own embassies.
Though interestingly they're considering sharing some again I believe.
A similar proposal was made for Quebec, when they had their referendum:
http://www.global-economics.ca/dth.chap8.htm
The situation in the break up of Czechoslovakia was different in that the neither the Czech Republic or Slovakia were a continuing state.
Most consular property is rented anyway.
200 embassies for the whole of the UK vs 92 for just Scotland - that sounds a very good deal to me. Quality not quantity.
92 is an outrageous number of diplomatic posts. Why is iScotland trying to act like a major world power? Why can't it be a small European republic with limited foreign ambitions?
The situation in the break up of Czechoslovakia was different in that the neither the Czech Republic or Slovakia were a continuing state.
Maybe the rUK won't be a continuing state either 😉
Yes, if the embassies are rented, then it's even less of a problem. We need lots of diplomatic posts so we can flood the world with whisky and shortbread after we get out from under the tyrannical yoke of empire...
Don't forget haggis or irn Bru, Ben, both outlawed by foreign countries because of the protectionist policies of the Westminster, the likes of which haven't been seen since the navigation acts.
Yes, if the embassies are rented, then it's even less of a problem. We need lots of diplomatic posts so we can flood the world with whisky and shortbread after we get out from under the tyrannical yoke of empire...
Oh come on the Scots were in the thick Empire building as much as the English.
I'm pleased that Ben brought up the dissolution of Czechoslovakia as an example
It gives me the opportunity to ask him what happened to their Currency Union? 😉
Oh come on the Scots were in the thick Empire building as much as the English.
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It gives me the opportunity to ask him what happened to their Currency Union?
They all got on happily ever after? I know they didn't, the currency union was dissolved pretty quickly. Which is fine, that may well happen with the pound as well.
Well, that was an interesting phone call. An older woman from one of the outer islands phoned up, to ask about an electric tricycle I built for her a while ago. Perfectly normal conversation about older batteries, recharging, etc.
Then out of the blue she said "Do you mind if I ask how you're voting?"
I replied that I didn't mind at all, and that I was voting Yes.
"So you're happy to turn your back on England and all our history?"
Kinda realised then that a sensible discussion wasn't on the cards, but tried to explain that it wasn't about England (mentioned my English-born family etc).
"But I'll have to sell my house here, so rich Scottish people can buy it!"
I just said "Hmm" after that, and hung up as soon as was polite 😉
My only conversation on it today was.
Bloke "this is like Scottish independence, strong smell, tastes good, but full of bones"
Me "no comment" whilst laughing.
Arbroath Smokie btw
You got that wrong piemonster. It should be Arbroath smokie FTW
Fair point 😀
11 days to the party or wake of our lives. 🙂
Ha, that's pretty good 😉
11 days to the party or wake of our lives.
A no vote does not have to be a wake epicyclo. Try to see a positive. It shows that Scotland will not turn it's back on the UK's neediest. I think we can all agree that is an admirable sentiment.
ninfan - Member
I'm pleased that Ben brought up the dissolution of Czechoslovakia as an exampleIt gives me the opportunity to ask him what happened to their Currency Union?
😉
athgray - Member
A no vote does not have to be a wake epicyclo.
A nice thought.
Judging by the remarks of Boris, Farage, and assorted other politicians, I'm expecting a modern version of the post 1746 retribution on the govt supporters and Yes voters alike. I think it will be a very nasty time.
However, I don't expect to be having a wake. 🙂
It shows that Scotland will not turn it's back on the UK's neediest. I think we can all agree that is an admirable sentiment
Or it shows that that people are scared of change or would rather try and preserve the status quo rather than try and build something better.
Or it shows that people have realised that change for the sake of change isn't a good idea
I did say that SNP MP's should be ashamed of themselves for ignoring the plight of London's poorest. Only two of them turned up to vote to abolish the bedroom tax.
I did say that SNP MP's should be ashamed of themselves for ignoring the plight of London's poorest. Only two of them turned up to vote to abolish the bedroom tax.
Perhaps they have more pressing matters at this moment in time, no?
Only two of them turned up to vote to abolish the bedroom tax.
2 out of 6. Chances of those 4 MP's making much difference?
2 out of 6. Chances of those 4 MP's making much difference?
I admire their "can do spirit". 😉
It is as well all of Scotlands Labour MP's managed to turn up then?
Latest YouGov Poll:
Yes 51% (+4)
No 49% (-4)
😀
How much of a swing is that in how many days/hours Bencooper?
Thank **** i put that bet on already
PM - did U get my PM about tomo AM?
Errrr....
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Yes, gotcha
How much of a swing is that in how many days/hours Bencooper?
That's 4% in a week, something like 22% in a month if you only look at YouGov polls - which have historically showed the lowest Yes results.
Panelbase should be interesting.
[quote=bencooper ]
How much of a swing is that in how many days/hours Bencooper?
That's 4% in a week, something like 22% in a month if you only look at YouGov polls - which have historically showed the lowest Yes results.
Something wrong there - surely? Is it normal for polls to swing so much in such a short space of time (unless YouGov have somehow changed their methodology)?
[quote=piemonster ]Thank **** i put that bet on already
Is anyone yet taking bets on what "Dirty Tricks" we can expect in the next couple of weeks? I was chatting to a No-supporting Manchester-living English client today and he was seriously proposing the idea that some sort of intervention would happen. Maybe DC will declare war and a state of National Emergency and then "postpone" the vote until things have quietened down?
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Something wrong there - surely?
"Dirty Tricks"
If i put my tin foil hat, and consider the CEO of You Gov. Maybe this is a dirty trick to get the less motivated no voters to vote.
It'd have to be a big and ornate tin foil hat.
Maybe there's new methodology accounting for 'new voters'?
This is all wrong. Why isn't the overwhelming media bias working out better for the No campaign?
Something wrong there - surely? Is it normal for polls to swing so much in such a short space of time (unless YouGov have somehow changed their methodology)?
Depends if one side manages to run a total clusterf*** of a campaign. The poll also shows that trust in all the other party leaders is much, much lower than that for Salmond and Sturgeon. So basically the scare stories that Better Together we're relying on aren't working because no-one believes a word they say.
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This is what I think (partly after a couple of beers and having had an excellent day): The undecideds have been doing that Scottish thing of keeping their cards close to their chest and listening quietly to the different arguments for as long as possible. They have now decided that Yes is the way forwards.
It's only going to get worse for No as Queeny and Cameron make a joint appearance at Kirk tomorrow. Before we then get flooded with unionist Westminster MPs next week.
This is all wrong. Why isn't the overwhelming media bias working out better for the No campaign?
Do you want a clue, Darling?
The undecideds have been doing that Scottish thing of keeping their cards close to their chest and listening quietly to the different arguments for as long as possible. They have now decided that Yes is the way forwards.
*Disappointing lack of tin hats involved
Don't worry, Nigel Farrage is coming to save the union 😀
Looks like Westminster is panicking. ^
I was just about the post that Guardian link. If the vote goes in favour of independence the shock could well derail the 'recovery' as business confidence and certainty about the future falls off the track.
From The Economist this week:
[url= http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21615593-scottish-referendum-nears-capital-takes-fright-case-jitters ]Capital is already taking flight from Scotland[/url]
If the prospect of a departure worries bankers and investors, of course, an actual one would cause enormous upheaval. Nationalists have set a date of March 2016 to separate from the United Kingdom. That is probably too ambitious. However long the negotiations take, they will be tortuous and ill-tempered. Almost everything, from currency to nuclear weapons, would be on the table, making for a fluid, uncertain picture. Expect the jitters to continue.
Of course, if those people who voted yes see money leaving the country as a direct result, they may well ask for their voting papers back...
This is all wrong. Why isn't the overwhelming media bias working out better for the No campaign?
Does that Sunday Mail headline look like an example of media bias helping the no campaign?
It is based on something said months ago, and is an example of gutter press s**t stirring.
I am a bit disappointed in you there piemonster. The Mail ffs. 🙁
I did feel a little wrong tbh
Best have a long shower and good scrub.
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Does the Guardians "Radical New Deal" so long as we vote no now remind anyone of Lord Home
WikipediaThe campaign for a "no" vote was much helped by an assurance by former Prime Minister Lord Home of the Hirsel that a future Conservative Government would introduce legislation which would meet the objections. This pledge, made by Lord Home in a personal capacity, was not honoured by the Conservatives when they came to power a few months later.
Dirty Tricks seem to have turned up sharpish Scotroutes 🙂
I will simply refer the honourable gentleman to the bottom-left section of the image I previously posted 😆
Taking a moment aside folks, just for a wee seperate side issue - forget how you actually want the vote to go, how do you actually think the vote will go?.
I'm in favour of a yes vote, but think the no will unfortunately prevail. Whaddya think?.
Until very recently I would have agreed with you. Over the past few weeks though I have sensed a bit of a groundswell. Perhaps it is this that the polls are picking up on?
If Scotland do go independent England need a land border similar to the one between Mexico and the USA with shoot at sight powers!
Right up until last week I was predicting No 54% Yes 46%. Now I don't have a clue, too close to call I think. I wonder if it will be so tight we will have numerous challenges and recounts. Anyone know the rules on this?
Very similar again I would have thought Bt were favourites until 4 or 5 weeks ago.
A question I've been wondering recently. Should we end up independent, would a mortgage on a Scottish property held by a company based in England have its interest rate determined by rUK interest or by Scottish interest rates?
Mortgage rates are set by banks.
I always thought it would be tight with No perhaps edging it. Now I think Yes may win. As much as I disagree with their message they have run a far better campaign than Better Together. I have been very disappointed with Darling.
Athgray, me too!.
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[quote=rene59 ]Right up until last week I was predicting No 54% Yes 46%. Now I don't have a clue, too close to call I think. I wonder if it will be so tight we will have numerous challenges and recounts. Anyone know the rules on this?
Fill yer boots!