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If exchange rates moved against you by 5% that could have a very real impact on your ability to pay the bills.
I've been in business importing and exporting since '95. I've seen much bigger exchange rate movements than that - plan properly, no problem at all.
Less than twenty days to a momentous decision that is being driven by extraordinarily shallow understanding, limited planning and flawed analysis
Yep. That's why I think the whole thing is about nationalism, pure and simple. The pragmatic solution is devo max. If AS realy wanted the best for the Scottish people that's why the referendum would be about, I'm sure.
I'm sure this was discussed whilst I was not listening at some point.. ?
Less than twenty days to a momentous decision that is being driven by extraordinarily shallow understanding, limited planning and flawed analysis.
On the contrary, it is you who has an extraordinarily shallow understanding. People get that there is uncertainty over the financial impacts of independence, it's just that finance is not at the top of their list of concerns. People voting yes tend to care more about getting a government that they vote for and one that they can hold accountable. They like what the SNP is doing as the party in power. People up here genuinely care about equality, educating our kids well and looking after those who cant look after themselves. You should try coming north once in a while - Scotland is radically different to the south of England, and a much nicer place to live for it.
That's why I think the whole thing is about nationalism, pure and simple
If you mean civic nationalism - the idea that Scotland is a nation made up of the people who live here, wherever they're from, yes. If you think it's about ethnic background, where you're born, it really isn't. I'm the only Scottish-born person in my whole family (apart from 4-year-old daughter) and we're all voting Yes.
This isn't about pound and pence for most people, it's not an unemotional tallying up of the costs one way or another to come to a completely Spock-like rational decision. Of course it isn't, it isn't for any decision humans ever make. What it is is about hope, hoping that it's possible to change things. People voting Yes are hoping that independence will kick-start that change. People I know who are voting No are equally hopeful that staying in the Union we can force change.
Oddly, that reason for voting No is one that's not heard very often. Probably because the parties in charge of the a Better Together campaign don't like the implication that things at the moment aren't brilliant and need radical change. However it's a point of view I respect even if I don't agree with it.
On the contrary, it is you who has an extraordinarily shallow understanding. People get that there is uncertainty over the financial impacts of independence, it's just that finance is not at the top of their list of concerns
On a poll taken early in the year currency was top of the list of concerns. Maybe if this had been addressed before AS lost the first TV debate the polls would be more favourable of a yes vote.
You should try coming north once in a while - Scotland is radically different to the south of England, and a much nicer place to live for it.
I have been and I didn't feel like I was in utopia. It wasn't long before the racism started although most people were pleasant.
On a poll taken early in the year currency was top of the list of concerns
I have never been polled and nobody I know has ever been polled - that's a hell of a lot of people not been polled. Therefore I take poll results with a pinch of salt.
It wasn't long before the racism started although most people were pleasant.
Can you give us examples of that racism?
I have been and I didn't feel like I was in utopia. It wasn't long before the racism started although most people were pleasant.
What on earth were you doing? I grew up in Glasgow with an English (ish) accent and never had any more than light ribbing in 37 years.
Endless digs at the English with an undertone of violence. As I said though most people were pleasant. If ever you get bored of being surrounded by bigots you could always come down to England and be assured that people in general don't bat an eyelid when they hear a Scottish accent.
No specific examples?Endless digs at the English with an undertone of violence.
you could always come down to England and be assured that people in general don't bat an eyelid when they hear a Scottish accent.
Contrarily, the only time I've ever felt seriously abused for my background was on a 2-week training course for IBM. Two of us Scots (one female) with about 30 English people who would get very offensive especially when drunk in the evenings.
Really, though, there are idiots everywhere.
[quote=wanmankylung ]
No specific examples?Endless digs at the English with an undertone of violence.
I'm sure he's capable of inventing some
I have lived there and travel there often - hence the interest. No Scotland is not radically different. That goes alongside Nessie as a myth. It is remarkably similar in many ways to the rUK which is one of the reasons why AS and yS want to be part of a CU. The radically different idea is a convenient but flawed narrative that falls over under basic scutiny - including educational inequality and health.
The SNP has delivered very little especially in relation to its fairy tale future promises. On top of that, just look his much of the status quo, yS is proposing to keep under so-called independence (sic)
You can dress a pup in whatever way you choose, but if it walks like a pup, smells like a pup and shits like one then a pup is what you have been sold. You cannot escape this fact.
(From the start of this campaign, the economic gains have proven to be one of the most important deciding factors hence the reams of BS figures. To suggest otherwise is immediately falsifiable)
The first lot of abuse was at a service station, the next lot was at a bar and on it continued. Face it some Scots are racist towards English people. The same level of hatred is not returned from the south of the border. Civilisation is only a few hours away, come any time you want.
I have lived there and travel there often - hence the interest. No Scotland is not radically different. That goes alongside Nessie as a myth. It is remarkably similar in many ways to the rUK which is one of the reasons why AS and yS want to be part of a CU
Read Lesley Riddoch's Blossom - there are many fundamental differences in health, housing, political viewpoint etc.
Pretty sure devo max was supposed to be on the ballot paper but Cameron insisted it was taken off so that it was a straight yes or no, this could very well back fire on him now.
Face it some Scots are racist towards English people.
They are, you're completely right. The difference is, though, that you got anti-English abuse at a service station - we get anti-Scottish abuse in the mainstream media, on Have I Got News and on The News Quiz. It's mainstream.
The majority of Scots don't share your views so you can't expect the media to be on your side. Hence why Ben is always posting links to "one man and his sheep" blogs.
Here's the Rowntree Foundations in May this year as a starter on education
In Scotland today, over one in five children lives in poverty. It affects their health, their education, their connection to wider society and their future prospects for work. Although Scottish education does well for many of its children, [b]it does not serve these most vulnerable children well and the gap in educational attainment between pupils from the richest and poorest background [u]is wider than in many similar countries. [/u][/b]
Rhetoric versus reality - you choose.
People up here genuinely care about equality, educating our kids well and looking after those who cant look after themselves.
Noble goals but hardly matched by SNP delivery. Ditto health.....
What's your point? I know Soctland has some very, very deprived areas, I live in one of them.
wanmankylung, [b]Everywhere[/b] in the UK is radically different to the south of England [well except for the shire counties], Scotland has no monopoly on that. However "caring and sharing" people say they are, the moment it starts to hurt them in their wallets and purses a sort of financial veil falls over them. For example, how many Left-leaning council house tenants throughout the UK used "Right To Buy" laws to help themselves onto the property ladder at a considerable discount, while also buying shares in de-nationalised utilities ?
I'm sorry to say the average bloke in the street both North and South of Hadrian's Wall will always look out for their own family/interests before others.
I suspect fasternotfaster was only abused because he's a trolling bellend and not because he is English. This myth that there is widespread anti-English sentiment in Scotland is a load of bollocks, sure there are some arseholes, proportionally not any more than what a Scot would face in England. I live and work in both countries and have had some numpties try it on but only a tiny percentage of the people I have met.
For example, how many Left-leaning council house tenants throughout the UK used "Right To Buy" laws to help themselves onto the property ladder at a considerable discount
It happened less and later in Scotland, and Right To Buy has now been scrapped in Scotland.
We must be doing something right.
I suspect fasternotfaster was only abused because he's a trolling bellend and not because he is English. This myth that there is widespread anti-English sentiment in Scotland is a load of bollocks, sure there are some arseholes, proportionally not any more than what a Scot would face in England.
I walk in to a service station, people next to me hear my English accent and start to abuse me, the same happens within minutes of walking in a bar. What happens in Scotland when England play a foreign team at football? I saw the entire bar cheering on the other team, this doesn't happen vice versa.
What it is is about hope
[/thread]
(I very much doubt it is!)
We must be doing something right.
As part of the UK....
Ben, Scotland saw 500000 sales under Right to Buy, this with a Scottish population c5 million. This must have had a huge impact on the availability of social housing. The legislation must be one of the worst ever enacted under Maggie Thatcher [unless you were one of those who benefitted !!].
edit : Ben, the end of Right To Buy only comes into action after August 2016. Still plenty of time unfortunately for Scotland's housing stock to be depleted.
Yup, which is why the SNP scrapped it. However the take-up was quite a bit later in Scotland than down south I believe, at least according to the figures I've seen.
As part of the UK....
Education is completely separate - nothing to do with being in the UK (apart from overall funding levels).
Civilisation is only a few hours away, come any time you want.
Some would call that racism, therefore your "experiences" are null and void.
Some would call it a fact that Scots are more welcome in England that the other way around. Don't try to deny the anti English element in Scotland. I have experienced it first hand.
You seem to have experienced it more than I have in 37 years, is what's odd. I go into petrol stations and pubs all the time with an English(ish) accent.
Some would call it a fact that Scots are more welcome in England that the other way around.
Aye, and they would be trolls also.
Some would call it a fact that English are more welcome in Scotland that the other way around. Don't try to deny the anti Scottish element in England. I have experienced it first hand.
Seeing as people from both countries hate each other so obviously it's probably best to go our separate ways.
I've heard bencooper's accent and am very surprised to learn that he is not English.
Feeling a little paranoid now 😀
Bought a Chariot trailer from you 8ish years ago - it's still going strong and has done us for three kids.
Ah, good stuff 😉
What happens in Scotland when England play a foreign team at football? I saw the entire bar cheering on the other team, this doesn't happen vice versa.
Yes, because im sure if you walk into a pub in Rio de Janeiro on the night Argentina are playing, you'll find all the Brazilians cheering for the argies...
And if you're getting abused in a service station its probably because of what you're saying rather than than the accent you're saying it in, though I strongly suspect its a figment of your imagination
There certainly are people in Scotland who don't like the english. But we love the welsh and the irish and we'll be leaving them too. How very english it is, to think a debate about the future of the UK is all about englishness 😉
fasternotfatter - Member
Some would call it a fact that Scots are more welcome in England that the other way around. Don't try to deny the anti English element in Scotland. I have experienced it first hand.
Might be worth trying speaking with less volume and not treating the natives as if they are ignorant peasants who should be honoured by your presence, and you'll find the "racism" just melts away....
Yes, because im sure if you walk into a pub in Rio de Janeiro on the night Argentina are playing, you'll find all the Brazilians cheering for the argies...
Yet if you walk into most pubs in England when Scotland are playing you won't find all the English cheering for whoever Scotland is playing. Which makes your point about Brazil and Argentina even more irrelevant than it was anyway.
Yet if you walk into most pubs in England when Scotland are playing you won't find all the English cheering for whoever Scotland is playing.
I would imagine that's usually because whenever Scotland is playing, either England is also playing or there's a more interesting match than another Scotland vs Moldova nailbiting 0-0 game.
the parties in charge of the a Better Together campaign don't like the implication that things at the moment aren't brilliant and need radical change.
...and the parties in charge of the Yes campaign aren't proposing radical change. in fact, quite the opposite - they are desperate to persuade the electorate of the high degree of continuity that an iScotland will see.
And here we go right on cue...
rene59 - Member
And here we go right on cue...
Yup, the excuses are being prepared right now.
"The silent majority were scared to vote because of gangs of tartan clad Saltire waving woad faced egg hurling Yessers crying Freeedommm!"
Whereas the silent majority are the lost readerships of the daily papers and have become Yes voters.
Fasternotfatter, I lived in Essex and Hampshire for 4 years in that time regularly came up against a lot of anti Scots jibes. Was even helped out of a couple of very sticky situations by members of the Royal Scots.
Strangely never had a Scottish banknote questioned.
Seeing as people from both countries hate each other so obviously it's probably best to go our separate ways.
Where as Scotland currently stands as a country united?
.
I saw the entire bar cheering on the other team, this doesn't happen vice versa.
@faster In fairness no one would bother watching a game Scotland were involved in these days and the other team wouldn't need our support to win handily anyway.
Sorry that was too easy 🙂
egg hurling
@epic the individual concerned slapped the egg hard onto the guys back, it was very aggressive. He then sloped off with his head down. He wasn't trying to make a political point it was an outright aggressive act to intimidate.
It's not the egg hurling that I worry about most. It is shouts of traitor and quisling that are more disturbing.
Isn't Panama actually a tax haven? Is that the reason it has all these lovely stable banks - they get vast inflows of dollars from people who would rather that the IRS not get their hands on it?
Does that point the way to how iScotland's financial services would be heading?
fasternotfatter's last trip to Scotland wasn't a huge success
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egg hurling
shouldn't that be "egg shinty"?
some really nasty stuff going around facebook and twitter from the presumably unofficial yes side at the moment! didn't think it would get this bad/low level. wonder if there will be arrests? feel sorry for the motherwell security guard!
I predict world war 3
I'm broad English and work in Glasgow a couple of days per week, and Bike, Ski and Climb in the Highlands 2/3 times per year as well. Been doing this for 20+ years
I've never experienced any grief/ Racisms whatsoever. (& I can't say the same for North Wales!!).
Here at the Free Yorkshire campaign we've been very careful with who we call foreigners for the fear of being labeled racist (not from gods country). So far we have not got involved in the Free Scotlandshire debate as we'd not like to have our own arguments undermined by taking a sides. However we'd fully support a free Scotland if you'd take a certain Mr G Galloway back to Dundee.
some really nasty stuff going around facebook and twitter from the presumably unofficial yes side at the moment! didn't think it would get this bad/low level. wonder if there will be arrests? feel sorry for the motherwell security guard!
Links?
Meanwhile:
@ben, I know you are trying to provide some balance but it's clear the majority of the nasty stuff is coming from the Yes side.
Well that's shit, Stewart's a mate of my dad's, hope he's OK 🙁 Nice feller.
<edit- Jambalaya, it's not clear at all, what's your basis for that?>
@ben, I know you are trying to provide some balance but it's clear the majority of the nasty stuff is coming from the Yes side.
He says without as a shred of evidence.
I guess we should maybe ask why the Yes side are so prominent and so passionate? Maybe if the same could be said of the No campaign they might win a few more votes.
@ben, I know you are trying to provide some balance but it's clear the majority of the nasty stuff is coming from the Yes side.
It really isn't. Apart from Jim Murphy, have any other No campaigners been attacked? I haven't heard of any. While Yes campaigners were attacked at Tynecastle, and No campaigner was arrested a couple of days ago for kicking a woman in the stomach.
Then there's the online stuff:
https://mobile.twitter.com/BritNatAbuseBot
Sadly I think it's only going to get worse as desperation creeps into the No side.
Meanwhile:
Well, I've just watched that video twice and it doesn't seem to support the claims in the article whatsoever 😕
Meanwhile...
...more evidence of deceit and hypocrisy relating to central NHS argument coming to light today. So was the DO a client of weight watchers too or was it really just the 5:2 diet
Salmond, he's not all bad. He cares about the common folk.
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[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/90886684@N03/15104463901/ ]image[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/90886684@N03/ ]piemonster[/url], on Flickr
@ben so Yes backers get the Twitter abuse the No do ? I will stand corrected as I am not following this as closely as you are. To be honest I am ready for it all to be over, my great fear is that Yes or No we'll be hearing about this for years to come.
I also don't think there is any reason for the No campaign to be desperate, I don't think the Yes will win.
@ben so Yes backers get the Twitter abuse the No do ?
I don't think there's any sensible way to measure and quantify online abuse. From what I see, the abuse directed at the No side generally seems to be about hypocrisy of politicians, criticism of campaigns, things like that. Whereas the abuse directed at the Yes side is generally more obscene comments, swear words, sectarian comments, and frequently invokes Godwin's Law.
No see the polls relentlessly moving against them. They also see a much more vibrant campaign than their own, with window posters all over the place and loads of campaigners out on the streets. That'd worry anyone.
Or perhaps it just means Yes are getting desperate as the relentlessly moving polls still aren't likely to show a vote in their favour on the day. Despite all the internet attempts to talk up their side I still haven't met any Yes supporters who really think they are going to win.
I notice from one of the other threads that there are quite a lot of people saying head says no, heart says yes. I suspect the vast majority of those sort of folk will go with their head come the day.
Maybe. The last week feels like a watershed, though - more and more people (me included) are now beginning to believe we might actually win this thing.
Overall, the polls have barely moved.
Erratic results pop up for both Yes and No. The narrowest lead recorded this year was 3% back in April and again in June.
The last high Yes poll is only relentless progress if you ignore the polls before it by the same Pollster. Although the nature of polling a rare event makes them questionable in the first place.
Well see soon enough, I'm quite interested to see just how many of the "missing million" participate. Looking likely that they'll be the ones to swing it now. And I'm still surprised that the in-house poll of big issue sellers didn't result in a Yes majority,
Really Ben?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/poll-tracker
Looks like the latest Survation poll is showing support for no at its highest in the last 6 months apart from immediately after Sir BSs disastrous first debate. Several of the rest show support for no over 50%. Which poll [s]is wings for Scotland[/s] are you relying on?
Huh. Might explain why No keep banging on about currency.
If it's accurate that is. Not sure I remember seeing this before.
Maybe. The last week feels like a watershed, though - more and more people (me included) are now beginning to believe we might actually win this thing.
This - exactly this.
Aye, there's no denying an increase in confidence amongst the Yes voters I know. Part of the reason I put a cheeky wager on it.
There's still no shift amongst people I know to Yes. If anything it's shifted to No, but this is just amongst folk I know. But this group is hopelessly skewed away from having a broad representation of the electorate as a whole.
But those Yes voters I do know, that are more settled and have broader contact across the social spectrum than I. Are pretty convinced on the result.
Staggering to see that roughly 50% think the currency is rel unimportant. Still in the rUK many simply follow what The Dirty Digger tells them too. So another example of how we are not that different!!! People will swallow what they are told without critical assessment. The joy of democracy.
I find it genuinely concerning that the vote is so close, when there is such an [s]lack of substance[/s] enormous leap of faith involved. People are sleepwalking towards a real nightmare. The last time I saw such light due diligence was when Freddie decided that RBS should buy ABN!!! If we forget the lessons of history......
It will be a fascinating experiment in faith-based economics.
some really nasty stuff going around facebook and twitter from the presumably unofficial yes side at the moment! didn't think it would get this bad/low level. wonder if there will be arrests? feel sorry for the motherwell security guard! http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/yes-campaigners-attacked-by-mob-outside-tynecastle-1-3527125
Read your link ben, I condemn this completely. There is no place for violence or intimidation, in this instance from No supporters. Having read this I think George Foulkes and previously Salmond could do better to calm the tension.
Scotland is clearly divided, I have always said the result will be close, and that a no vote should not be cause for celebration rather reflection. I think there will be no winners on Sept 18th.
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16 days....
So, if I was thinking of a few days of bike touring, should I strike Scotland off my list of places to go. What's Holland like in September?