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I trust social media far more than I trust mainstream media. Far fewer vested interests.
There's no shortage of vested interests in social media. It's the individual scale that provides the biggest difference.
Yep, the if Scotland wins the referendum comment was very telling - explains a lot. How about the >50% who would view that as a bad result?
But to swallow much of the yS BS you have to be very blinkered. But at least someone has asked the DO a straight question on the currency in a Radio Scoltand phone in - so First Minister, is a currency an asset (or simply a means of exchange)?
To which - The First Minister replied: “[b]We haven’t argued it’s the currency that’s the asset, [/b]it’s the financial assets of the United Kingdom.”
Pull the other one Alex, but at least inside the last 19 days you can now be honesf about the currency. That would be a refreshing change and only what we deserve on such an important issue.
That's the big problem, though - we don't have an impartial and balanced mainstream media.
The Beeb is know globally for its impartiality and lack of balance. No wonder is has such little respect around the world.
Social media has big flaws, but it is fantastic at telling stories that honest people don't want to tell.
FTFY!
It wasn't my comment, but I don't have a problem saying I think Scotland will lose out if the vote is No.
Because that's exactly what lots of politicians down south are saying - there will be a cut or complete removal of the Barnett formula, and there are many more austerity cuts to come.
The Beeb is know globally for its impartiality and lack of balance. No wonder is has such little respect around the world.
BBC Scotland is facing an existential threat, of course it can't be impartial about its own breakup - independent academic studies have shown how impartial it is on the subject.
I think the UK needs restructured with the removal of the top layer and more decentralised power. From what I can see the North of England is in a similar position to Scotland.
I agree completely, but if you vote yes this will never ever happen. If you vote no, then then everyone can work on getting devo max for Scotland and the whole UK.
From this point of view (pragmatic, sensible and productive IMO) yes is the wrong vote.
Scotland will have to address it's fiscal issues whatever the vote Ben. One way is much easier and less costly that the other. For the DO to claim otherwise just shows that he is indeed deceitful.
It's amazing that people can swallow the idea that the DO can deliver something/everything that no other nation/political party can deliver. The fairy tale re-writing of basic truisms is startling.
I agree completely, but if you vote yes this will never ever happen. If you vote no, then then everyone can work on getting devo max for Scotland and the whole UK.
Problem is that no political parties are promising that. Or anything like that. We can't work on fixing the system when the system isn't allowing any options for change. Devo Max is unfair on the rest of the UK, and no party is promising anything near Devo Max, let alone a federal system of government and proper reform of Westminster.
So how do we work on it? Launch a new political party? Try to change the Labour Party? It's just not going to happen.
Problem is that no political parties are promising that
Of course they aren't now, the nats want full independence so they won't talk about a compromise. However they surely must do after a no vote - what else would they do? Go quiet and sulk?
Devo Max is unfair on the rest of the UK
Unless it includes Wales, the North etc. If the vote is no, there must be a discussion on this. The debate has raised a lot of issues, they won't just go away.
However if the vote is yes, the Welsh and Northerners will get sweet FA.
Scotland will have to address it's fiscal issues whatever the vote Ben.
Every country has fiscal issues, but an independent a Scotland would be in better shape than it would be as part of the UK - Scotland has been a net contributor to the Union, contributing more than we get back for the past 30+ years, and without expensive projects like Trident and HS2 to pay for we'll be even better off.
I think there may well be a few difficult years of transition, but in the long run we'll be fine.
Of course they aren't now, the nats want full independence so they won't talk about a compromise. However they surely must do after a no vote - what else would they do? Go quiet and sulk?
Who? After a No vote, Westminster will immediately lose all interest in Scotland, and the focus will turn to the 2015 election - where Labour will probably lose to a Tory/UKIP coalition or something equally unpleasant. None of the Westminster parties are showing even the slightest interest in changing the Westminster system - why should they, it works for them - and a relatively small number of Scots deciding to stay in the Union won't change that.
Ben see my edit.
Yes, but they don't then lie to their people about being able to cut taxes and raise spending etc. It's utter hogwash. As it's most of the fairer society smokescreen. There is about as much truth in most if this as there is in arguing that a haggis is a wee beastie that runs round the glens.
But there will be two major disappointments for yS - either most Scots will (remain) be canny enough to vote for what is in their best interests; or independence (sic) proves to be very different from what is currently being promised. No one delivers fairy tales in the real world. The reality will be quite harder and accompanied by high levels of totally unnecessary uncertainty. All for the DOs new throne and ego. Bizarre.
In lighter news, turns out that a model in a Better Together leaflet is voting Yes 😀
Ben see my edit.
Yes - thing is, they will go away. Only reason these things are being discussed now is the threat of the breakup of the union. With that back in its box, there will be no motivation for any of the Westminster parties to look at the issues.
So Ben is you believe that rUK/Westminster will have zero interest in Scotland going forward why on earth are you voting for a system where the same people will be settling you main policies? That can only be foolhardy to delegate such powers to foreign and disinterested parties. You guys really have to make your minds up with less than 20 days....
you believe that rUK/Westminster will have zero interest in Scotland going forward
THM, this raises a very good point actually,
Its a strange dichotomy indeed that according to the nationalists, if we stay together as a union, Westminster has no interest in ensuring a future functioning and successful Scotland...
whilst at the same time they are also telling us that if we separate, one of the key reasons Westminister will agree to a Currency Union is the importance to the rUK of a functioning and successful Scotland as a neighbour 😆
So Ben is you believe that rUK/Westminster will have zero interest in Scotland going forward why on earth are you voting for a system where the same people will be settling you main policies? That can only be foolhardy to delegate such powers to foreign and disinterested parties. You guys really have to make your minds up with less than 20 days....
last time I looked.. Con/Dem were in charge of Westminster and SNP were in charge of Holyrood..... They are hardly the same people...
Only 17 days for you chaps to argue over how many angels fit on a pinhead before we take the pin away... 🙂
With the final run in yS are banking on CU/default on debt and scare stories on NHS. Both lies with the actual spending on private sector spending on NHS north of the border now clarified along with SNP policy to actively encourage private sector participation. The scale of the deceit is truly breathtaking. Lies right at the centre of the final debate.
And these are the people who are going to deliver nirvana?!?
Epic - if only, the nats will carry on whining well after the result on the 19th.
Indeed gav and the Holyrood lot are proposing abdicating even more power to Westminster and even less (ie, no) representation. You couldn't make it up.
SNP policy to actively encourage private sector participation.
Oh really? Wow...
THM, you're as bad as Better Together with your scare mongering pish.
And these are the people who are going to deliver nirvana?!?
You know fine well it's not a vote for the SNP and they'll not be in power forever.
You can say it over and over again, it doesn't make it true. Relardless of the true amount of spending on private services (still less) and how the money is spent (very differently the overall budget is still determined by Westminster.
[url= http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/nhs-expert-only-a-yes-will-save-the-health-service-in-scotland-from-westminster-cuts.25192360 ]Allyson Pollock, professor of public health research and policy at Queen Mary University of London, warned reforms in the NHS south of the Border could result in "serious" consequences for Scotland by translating into reduced funding through the Barnett formula.[/url]
You know fine well it's not a vote for the SNP and they'll not be in power forever.
So where are the policies from the other parties which show us what direction iS will take in the future, which solve all the problems of the SNP policies?
And the most likely alternative is labour who are against independence,
teamhurtmore - Member
And the most likely alternative is labour who are against independence,
It won't be Westminster controlled Labour anymore.
BBC Scotland is facing an existential threat, of course it can't be impartial about its own breakup
what are you talking about? Scottish independence is a once in a lifetime nose in the trough opportunity for BBC Scotland employees! they'll no longer be second tier parochials run from London/Salford, they'll be at the centre of things - and think of all the new programming and busy work that will have to be done!
BBC Scotland is facing an existential threat, of course it can't be impartial about its own breakup
what are you talking about? Scottish independence is a once in a lifetime nose in the trough opportunity for BBC Scotland employees! they'll no longer be second tier parochials run from London/Salford, they'll be at the centre of things - and think of all the new programming and busy work that will have to be done!
[So where are the policies from the other parties which show us what direction iS will take in the future, which solve all the problems of the SNP policies]
In 2016, iScotland would go to the polls to vote for a government where three of the main parties don't currently want the job. This being Scotland, we will end up with a Labour government before long, and Labour will do what they have done every time in UK government since WWII - massive spending spree, F*** it all up and put the country into massive debt.
Both lies with the actual spending on private sector spending on NHS north of the border now clarified along with SNP policy to actively encourage private sector participation.
So using private sector suppliers to cope with surge demand and limit waiting times therefore preventing unnecessary and prolonged suffering is a bad thing is it? Not in my book.
Not in mine either. It is prevalent in the provisions of most public services and is not new.
But suggesting that the use of private sector health services is (1) more of an issue in rUK than in Scotland, (2) is exclusive to Tories and (3) is not an existing element of SNP policies (use has doubled under Salmond) is a deceitful ploy at the core of the DO's final play of his cards. The "we will protect the NHS from English/Tory policies" is a crock and an obvious one - even if the figures require some digging out. No surprise there.....
It won't be Westminster controlled Labour .
Why, is CMD going to pull a victory out of the hat in 2015? 😉
Imagine five years of a foreign Tory government setting your economic agenda! Is that what you votes for?
teamhurtmore - Member
"It won't be Westminster controlled Labour ."
Why, is CMD going to pull a victory out of the hat in 2015?Imagine five years of a foreign Tory government setting your economic agenda! Is that what you votes for?
Eh? Incredible distortion field you have there.
I'll try to explain it more simply.
After independence Scottish parties will be locally directed, not taking their instruction from another country.
So the Scottish Labour party will not be toeing the Westminster imposed line of anti-independence.
No, just an understanding of how currency unions or sterlingisation would work. Good job that the majority will vote NO (just), they obviously understand the reality.
That's it I'm voting No.
Rather than shouting over the interviewee, Gordon should try to understand what a base rate is *. He would then look a little less silly. Still well used tactic to simply shout over the oppo - that's the DOs tactic all along.
* equally the guy could explain it better!!
I'm not hearing any shouting in that video clip.
But whatever is going on it's probably a much better tactic than kicking women in the belly, smearing shit on door handles and arson attacks. Classy stuff by the No campaign. Haven't seen it in the mainstream media though....
After independence Scottish parties will be locally directed, not taking their instruction from another country.
With the currency controlled from London, I don't think that will be true.
Grab a man by his balls, and the rest will surely follow....
But whatever is going on it's probably a much better tactic than kicking women in the belly, smearing shit on door handles and arson attacks. Classy stuff by the No campaign. Haven't seen it in the mainstream media though....
I suspect the assault you mention is the same as the one Salmond mentions here : http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-pans-intimidation-1-3526440
Rather than shouting over the interviewee, Gordon should try to understand what a base rate is *. He would then look a little less silly. Still well used tactic to simply shout over the oppo - that's the DOs tactic all along.
Why will the base rate change after independence? Other than the normal variations of course.
And here's some faeces smearing.
Both from the Scotsman of all papers too.
What will the base rate be in Scoltand? I thought your were going to be an independent country? Then again, without an central bank that would be a little difficult. I am sure the DO will have thought it through to the same extent as everything else though ie, hardly at all.
You can blame that on David Cameron. No Devo Max on the ballot paper was his decision.... Oh how funny it will be when that backfires.
@wan, Cameron did EXACTLY the right thing with setting the question. Is it not interesting that the SNP would rather have had a watered down Devo Max option. The fact is the SNP know that Scotland is better off with the UK as a safety net if they screw it up. Why should the UK agree to that ? Cameron has taken a calculated risk and I think he'll be proven right with a No vote. The advantage with this is that the independence issue will be put to bed for the foreseeable future, hopefully 20 years plus. By giving Scotland powers to set tax and spending I think that will force the Scottish Parliament to face reality and stop politicking with fanciful promises of this mythical fairer society whatever that actually means.
What will the base rate be in Scoltand?
Well to start with we'll be using Sterling, so the base rare will be the same as in the rUK. Later, if we transition to our own currency then we'll have a good credit rating according to the credit rating agencies, so no reason why our base rate should be much different.
Would you not raise your base rate to reward savers and punish borrowers? Isn't that the good proper thing to do?
The advantage with this is that the independence issue will be put to bed for the foreseeable future, hopefully 20 years plus.
Just out of interest, if Scotland is such a drain on rUK where is the advantage gained from putting the independence issue to bed for 20 years plus?
Just out of interest, if Scotland is such a drain on rUK where is the advantage gained from putting the independence issue to bed for 20 years plus?
Because by then the oil will have run out, so no reason to hang on to us.
Banksy has an opinion 🙂
[img] 
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Should that wee fella not be a Wild Haggis
Well to start with we'll be using Sterling, so the base rare will be the same as in the rUK.
If only that was how it works..!!!!
THM - dear economics guru can you please enlighten us thick ****s as to how the base rate would work for Scotland?
Well to start with we'll be using Sterling, so the base rare will be the same as in the rUK.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/panama/interest-rate
(just to help out, scroll down a bit for the US interest rate)
Later, if we transition to our own currency then we'll have a good credit rating according to the credit rating agencies, so no reason why our base rate should be much different.
😆
how the base rate would work for Scotland?
Assuming CU (not going to happen) it would be the same as it is now. You'd have to have your whole economic policy approved by the BoE though.
Assuming Sterlingisation you would have to set up your own Central Bank and set up your own currency reserves. This will cost a lot of money and involve a large amount of reserves which you'll need to borrow at a higher rate as you've not honored your share of the UK debt.
This cost of borrowing will affect interest rates, which will be at a premium to what it will be for rUK. Scotlands interest rates could be 1-2% higher than rUK (£50-100 a month on a typical mortgage)
Also with Sterlingisation you'll need to try and peg your currency to the £. Read about the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Exchange_Rate_Mechanism ]ERM[/url] and find out how much fun that might be.
Exactly, the DO is now proposing that you will follow the policy of sterlingisation. In his madness, he reckons that it is a good idea for Scotland to have no central bank. No central bank, no base rate (since is is the rate the CB lends to fin institutions).
You will be able to transfer all that nice cash into your own reserves of your own version in time (a SMA?). You can do he maths in what that means for the tax and spending pipe dreams.
Since the FC basically rules out sterlingisation, poor old Alex hasn't been briefed on how silly this makes Scotland look. I assume AS is one of the thick ***** on your reckoning?
Can't see all this talk of sterilisation going down well - Scotland's low birthrate means it's facing a demographic time bomb as it is.
Chew said
Assuming Sterilisation
I say that's quite an assumption!
Vote Yes or they'll tie your tubes
🙂
Autospell/autocorrect throws up these unintended gems!!!
I think there may well be a few difficult years of transition, but in the long run we'll be fine.
I totally agree with you on this Ben
Its just a case of:
How difficult?
For how long?
What percentage of the population is going to stick around through that transition period?
Autospell/autocorrect throws up these unintended gems!!!
We all know what i ment 😳
I think there may well be a few difficult years of transition, but in the long run we'll be fine.
A difficult tomorrow is a price worth paying for a better next week.
Better, you hope...
A difficult tomorrow is a price worth paying for a better next week.
It probably is but if the votes that close what percentage of the No voters are going to stick around during the 'difficult tomorrow' period?
Sterilisation is not a bad shout since policy flexibility will be neutered by what is being proposed by the DO.
Better, you hope...
Whereas difficult you know. The only thing which is certain about next week is that where the politicians meet will be geographically closer.
It probably is but if the votes that close what percentage of the No voters are going to stick around during the 'difficult tomorrow' period?
Hopefully not that many...
The only certainty is the kerching of the lawyers tills.
Given the profile of many of the no voters, your desire Wanman will not do much for tax receipts and future Gov spending - still that is the least of the contradictions.
Given the profile of many of the no voters, your desire Wanman will not do much for tax receipts and future Gov spending
Have another wee think about that. Then have a think about who is most liable to dodge taxes in one way or another. There is little room in my ideal Scotland for people who have the ability to pay their way but choose not to to the detriment of others.
No need - I understand how the tax system works.
I would hope that you do. I suspect that you may struggle with how the tax system doesn't work though.
Well! I'm not an economist or a tax expert - I'm too interesting for that - however I can look at the big picture.
Scotland has ample natural resources, lots of export businesses in the food, engineering and other industries, a world-leading education system, and a vibrant tourist industry. To imagine a country like that will struggle to pay bills is just ridiculous.
You hope... 🙂
As the saying goes - you don't know what you've got til it's gone.
Who is saying that Ben?
(Although the DO is now proposing ideas that are capable of bringing it on!!!)
lots of export businesses
Which will is very dependent on exchange rates, which is very dependent on what currency you're using, which at this point you dont know.
If exchange rates moved against you by 5% that could have a very real impact on your ability to pay the bills.
Scotland has ample natural resources, lots of export businesses in the food, engineering and other industries, a world-leading education system, and a vibrant tourist industry. To imagine a country like that will struggle to pay bills is just ridiculous.
With [s]sterilization[/s]sterlingization, would the financial sector be able to continue, or would it all move South?
Which will is very dependent on exchange rates, which is very dependent on what currency you're using, which at this point you dont know.
That question has been put to bed many times - it'll be the pound.
Chew - Member
...If exchange rates moved against you by 5% that could have a very real impact on your ability to pay the bills.
This is a problem faced in the past and handled by many countries.
Are you implying that Scotland would be unique in not having the ability to adapt to a changed marketplace?
Have fun buying your £'s on the markets and I am sure they will not take advantage of you. There will not be a currency union.
fasternotfatter - so you keep saying. But here's the thing - very few people give a shit.
As long as Scots accept that then I will sleep better tonight knowing that they no longer believe SNP lies that the rUK will capitulate and do what ever AS tells them to do.
Well they should do. Less than twenty days to a momentous decision that is being driven by extraordinarily shallow understanding, limited planning and flawed analysis. It's almost as if AS is going for the more absurd the better approach as his proposals are either (1) so mind bogglingly stupid or (2) basic lies. It's an extraordinary experience to see a politican getting away with a version of the Emperors new clothes in real time. If he was a CEO, the shareholders would have booted him out for breathtaking incompetence long ago.
The genuinely scary thing is that this whole vote will end up being so close. But perhaps, not giving a shit, really does sum the whole thing up. Utter madness.