[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

Euro or Ding Dong, remember 🙂

piemonster - Member
jesus **** wept

I genuinely don't particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.

A nuclear sub is a high value item so there's a lot of money sitting right there. Of course, a brandnew aircraft carrier could be worth a few bob too. These are things we don't want in Scotland so what's the best way to get rid of them when you need a few bob.

Or are we supposed to hand those over to you even though you won't share the UK govt assets?

This has just got even sillier. That's not "extreme" it's just nonsense.

I would also challenge you on the "things we don't want in Scotland", the nuclear subs may split opinion but SCotland was desperate to get to a lot of the building work for the 2 carriers. The people working on them were more than happy to have them in Scotland.

gobuchul - Member
This has just got even sillier. That's not "extreme" it's just nonsense.

I would also challenge you on the "things we don't want in Scotland", the nuclear subs may split opinion but SCotland was desperate to get to a lot of the building work for the 2 carriers. The people working on them were more than happy to have them in Scotland.

Exactly the point I was making, just the counterbalancing side of it. 🙂

Of course we were happy to build you aircraft carriers, and still will be. We just don't need them, so if we end up with them, they'll be on the market.

For Sale: Two state of the art aircraft carriers. Aircraft not included 😀

Things I have learned today:

- "Giraffe Bread" is a thing.

- Better Together think we'll care what the inventor of such bread thinks about Scottish independence.

jesus **** wept

I genuinely don't particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.

You don't have to rely on making things up or flip-flopping with the wind.

My personal favourite was you asking ducks to not play the man like the DO - as that label is not playing the man.

Your rep talks and behaves like a kid

Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won't be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

Any, saw another table and aside from National Pride and "role in the world" the respondants thought Scotland would be worse off in most things, economy, personal finances, tax and banking/deposit protection

Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won't be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

The Westminster government really hasn't thought through this problem. After a Yes vote, there will be a general election half way through the negotiating period. There might well be a Labour government, elected with the help of Scottish Labour MPs - who will then be on the rUK side of negotiations. Then what happens at independence in March 2016? There may well have to be another general election for the rUK.

There will be some SNP MPs as well, of course, who are working as hard as they can to get themselves out of a job.

jambalaya - Member
Saw something today from SNP saying that the UK would have to hold a second general election after Scottish indepence as May 2015 election will include Scotland as independence won't be completed yet (target March 2016). Interesting I thought although the UK would almost certainly seek to avoid that.

Saying that suppose they could just do a re-count in parliament, minus scottish MPs? But I'd think that unlikely.

@ben - I think the Westminster parties will have given plenty of thought to this. The referendum result will be known long before an election so there is time for new legislation to negate the need for a second election. For example they could pass legislation to say post iS completion those MPs just lose their vote/seat. I don't see it being anyone's interest having a second election, if the Tories win they won't want the risk of a second election and if the Labour party wins they won;t want a second election without the seats north of the border. As the iS process could fail I don't think Scottish MPs could be excluded in a May 2015 general election.

Saw something today

indeed worse case scenario is a lab govt that only exist due to scottish MPs and at the moment of independence it looses its majority. That is no mandate to act for rUK - though I am sure THM and others will be along shortly to tell me how fair, representative and democratic this is 😉

bencooper - Member

For Sale: Two state of the art aircraft carriers.[b]May require some home assembly[/b] Aircraft not included

FTFY Ben

seosamh77 - Member
Think I leaned about 150 pages ago, that the only thing this thread is worthwhile for is having a laugh...

Exactly. Other forums for the informed stuff where at least people get what a currency is, how monetary and fiscal policy work and what don't ask don't tell, actually mean 😉

yer men ninfan and teamhurtmore will seriously engage with any amount nonsense!

Exactly again. We do have to put up with a lot is yS nonsense. Nothing else sadly. But as you say, good for a lengthy laugh.

jesus **** wept
I genuinely don't particularly want anything to do with either side reading this bilge.

Im oot.

you should see the yes rubbish that is going around facebook up here! Not doing favours to swing the undecided voters like me.

If ninfan is your ally THM then you really are in the shit. His last profile,pre ban, explained that he rarely agreed with the stuff he spouted. the account then got banned for trolling and he created this new one...OH the irony 😆
I agree about the humour though that was priceless. 😀

As for other forums do they cry troll when the facts are counter to reality/their view or do they just ignore criticism and pretend it is not happening?

So the democracy issue "confident" enough to engage armed with the facts then....though not.

Any issue that gets people emotional will end up with a fair amount of gibberish and nonsense being spouted. You can decide to ignore and rise above it , join in , or criticise the other side ONLY whilst making up your own little acronyms for those you dislike. I forget which is the most credible approach but both sides have their nutters.

bigjim - Member
...you should see the yes rubbish that is going around facebook up here! Not doing favours to swing the undecided voters like me.

Visit a foodbank, then make your decision either way.

Visit a foodbank, then make your decision either way

The economic case is muddled and ill thought through. Unlikely to deliver the outcome you seek, which is why I've been No since the white paper was published.

You can have less money and still have less absolute poverty. It depends on how you distribute it not just how much you have.

Its not JUST about maximum money as we are not all the children of thatcher or think that the GDP of UK PLC [ I mean who uses such terms] is the main goal in life. It simportant but other things matter as well and everyone knows there is more to life than money [ except for some who are unfortunately very very poor]

IMHO very few will vote just due to economic matters. the uncertainty makes it the strong card for project fear hence they just repeat it ad infinitum and [generally]dont engage on the other points,

If that's the priority, then I'd have thought the economic prospects for the country were paramount in decision making as to redistribute wealth you must first have it.

Well that, and having a Government that actually wants to fix the problem and doesn't see punishing the poor as an easy way to win vote and an idealogical win.

You can have less money and still have less absolute poverty. It depends on how you distribute it not just how much you have.

(junky, see PM's)

I'm glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

theres a reason why I changed from the Z-11

actually you're wrong on that, theres a reason why I changed from Z-11 and its got nothing whatsoever to do with that

I would ask but it not like you will say or it would be believed anyway...the boy who cried wolf eh

They're not likely to take that without migrating or rearranging their affairs, so you have to put more of the burden on the comfortably off.

ninfan - Member
I'm glad Ben has decided that due to location the Aircraft carriers are going to be iScotlands, he does know that its cash on delivery, right?

A bit like the UK govt's bank which is located in England?

Are you having a laff?
I can live with that if it means the ending of food banks for the very poor and the very vulnerable
You?

FWIW, Ben stated a while back that most people he knew were voting Yes and would happily take the hit if it meant a more equitable society. I'm the same as are my family, and we're all very average in terms of the amount of money we earn.

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.
And holding the UKs nuclear weapons to ransom would make, make Alex salmond, blofeld, and would he want "$1,000,000".

I don't think this is the thread for intelligent conversation, but

1) is anyone considering moving savings to English banks? Been considering this and noticed the scotsman covered it the other day http://www.scotsman.com/news/how-likely-would-run-on-banks-be-after-yes-vote-1-3511906

2) is now a stupid time to consider buying a house in Scotland?

3)How long would it be between referendum and independence in the event of a Yes vote?

If everyone moved there money into English banks would that not cause trouble.

Do you expect property prices to fall after the referendum if the yes vote goes through or indeed the no vote.

Someone else said 18 months was the target but did not think it achievable, if you google it there is an exact date penciled in for Independence Day.

No, not having a laugh.

I can't see the next 20-30% offering to take it.

I would quite like property prices to fall. Higher IR and uncertainty would help, so prospects might be promising. Stick higher taxes on that (in general and to compensate for lower corporate tax) and the timing could be perfect!

Higher inequality is a global trend that crosses governments and political systems. Good to know that in addition to every other fairy story, the DO can unilaterally solve that one. Is that what threatening the stability of the financial sector is all about?!? I get it know! A masterstroke.......

Bigjim, surely no one is suggesting a systems without a lender of last resort, that would be madness. Oh wait a minute....

What if,
I am just saying what if.

It all goes tits up, would Scotland be able to rejoin the uk, and would the scots ever live it down.

There's nothing to go "tits up" about. If Scotland wants to separate itself from the rest of the UK it is perfectly feasible for it to do so - why wouldn't it be ?

If what you mean is would the Scots be able to reverse their decision should the disadvantages of separation become apparent to them, then there is no chance at all of that imo. It will all be settled once and for all on 18 Sept, that's the whole point of the referendum.

And btw remember that if YS do win the vote next month that it is extremely unlikely that it will be by a huge overwhelming majority, so for that reason if separation proves to have a great deal of negative consequences there will also be a great deal of angry Scots.

Expressing that anger won't create an issue of having to "live it down", why should anyone not express their dissatisfaction with something that they have never supported ? It might be futile but other than that I can't see a problem.

I personally believe even the comfortably off are willing to pay a little more tax to stop their fellow citizens starving

The other public sector contracting thread going on at the moment perhaps illustrates a little of that. Certainly my time as a public sector FD and then negotiating contracts with public sector customers leads me to the conclusion that removal of waste and inefficiency could fund several major omissions from current government policy.

There is more to helping the poor than just taxing the wealthy more. It's about spending what you take in more sensibly. Happy for both to happen to create a more equal society. Also happy for those who wouldn't be happy doing this to piss off elsewhere using the dual nationality thing.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes - not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

Just a thought, if the Yes vote is 50.1% is that a huge win for Independence but if the No gets 50.1% is that so close we need another vote next month?

There won't be another vote next month no, that would be silly, but a no vote would not be the end of the independence movement.

I suspect if the vote was that close then no doubt someone would mount a legal challenge for a recount/re-vote either way.

Independence will happen eventually, I would prefer it to happen this opportunity though as I may not be around come the next one.

if we don't get currency union, we'll default on our debt,
if we don't get EU citizenship, we'll remove Europeans right to live here,
if we don't get EU membership, we'll ban EU fishing boats from passing through international waters

I don't think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don't get currency union - more that if we don't get our share of the assets we'll obviously not be taking a share of the liabilities - tell me how that would not be a fair stance to take.

If we don't get EU citizenship and are no longer part of the EU, then people who are here on the basis that they are EU citizens would no longer be residing in the EU, so they would need to find another mechanism to stay here.

I dont think anyone ever said that we would stop EU fishing boats from passing through international waters, we might stop them fishing in Scottish waters which would no longer be part of the EU though - tell me how that would be unfair.

Your comment was daft and ill thought out.

I don't think that anyone has ever said that we would default on our share of the debt if we don't get currency union

[url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-salmond-gives-debt-warning-1-3305302 ]The Scotsman thinks so[/url]

So does then DO more importantly but then again poor guy still confuses currencies and assets. Good job its not important. The Dep of Econ at scotlands finest Uni must be having kittens at how much he has forgotten

oldbloke -

“All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month - and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

That's not what it said at all. It said what I said it said.

THM - this referendum has got nothing to do with Alex Salmond. Scotland will be an independent country long after he is dead and gone.

So which part of that quote which talks about not taking debt unless we get Sterling (the white paper proposal for CU) supports your assertion?

The more I have read the more I have been convinced it will be no.
So thought about putting a small bet on.
[img] [/img]
Don't think I will bother.

So Rene, your man is now pushing his Plan Ab (plan D to the rest of us) ie, sterlingisation that is no control over monetary policy and no lender if last resort (is this guy for real?). So tell me what happens to taxes and spending in a situation when you have a run a fiscal surplus in that environment. Clue it involves cutting spending and raising taxes - not quite what was on the yS menu was it, but very typical of the outright deceit demonstrated throughout the campaign yet again.

Now there are some radical Isaac going round including the ultra libertarian one of no lender of last resort is good for banking (blimey the SNP to the right of thatcher) but cutting spending to create a more equal society is a new one for many. This magic drawer of policies is really quite something.

I was going to type up a reply to your question, but to be honest I have no idea what you're saying here. I have no man. You are coming across more rabid by the day. I would suggest you take a break from this thread, but I don't think you would listen.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but if you are half as good at dishing out economic advice and advising on currency policy as your posts suggests you think you are, then I can only assume you operate somewhere at the top. Maybe advising the Government on policy, or working for one of the big financial institutions? Either way don't your employers want you back?

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

There you go in triplicate just to give it a chance to sink in.

In simple terms it says we'll pay our debts if you pay yours.

So does then DO

All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month - and Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally ours. However, we’ve always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and - contrary to the assertions today, Sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets.”

Do you have a direct quote [ including reference and context] where AS says they will walk away?
Everything I have seen is a threat as a negotiation position

Can you support your claim he has said they will walk away?
the position is assets and debts go hand in hand which is hardly a ludicrous negotiating position.

Whoops, Crawford Beveridge, Chair of the Fiscal Commission Working Group, seems to have blown the covers off!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11044798/Entirely-possible-Scotland-wont-share-pound-after-independence-Alex-Salmonds-top-economist-admits.html

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-alex-salmonds-currency-4076218

"People aren't rationale as we know. So it's entirely possible that we would get to the Yes and, because so many people have planned so much around the statements they have made in advance, they would say 'despite the fact this is going to be bad for England, we're not going to do it.'"

I do not disagree...anything is possible when you have squabbling politicians - well anything but mature exchange of ideas - as STW often proves 😉

Its probably not enough to convince THM nor stop him claiming it is a vanity project pfft facts

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead 😉

Its interesting how the final arguments are shaping up, up here.

Basically the big issues going into the final stretch of the campaigns are; Better together brings it down to a single issue with the pound, yes Scotland counters with the destruction of the NHS. Both sides are pretty weak in the their defence to the respective attacks.

Quite interesting, obviously I'm heavily biased but the NHS seems the stronger argument to me, the NHS is ingrained in the public psyche of Scotland and the no camp can't get the yes camp to budge on the position that we will be using anything but the pound.

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound. And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

Junkyard - lazarus

William Hill are giving odds THM makes no comment and goes on about economics instead

Well, as soon as he's admitted he was caught fibbing about election results I'm sure he'll get right on it (how many times has he accused other people of being deceitful since that post? One million?)

And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.

That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

IMO its widely believed that the Westminster politicians are lying when it comes to the pound.

I really doubt it, the rUK parties all know it would be electoral suicide in the rUK general election in 2015 to offer a currency union to the Scots who get a better deal out of the arrangement than the rUK. The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs. Whether it be voters in Bradford or Thanet or Merthyr Tydfil I don't see any driver for a soft deal for the Scots that the rUK essentially funds

ernie_lynch - Member
And its almost universally accepted that the NHS will be privatised in England in the not too distant future.
That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

That's not really a Scottish issue, is it ?

It is, in multiple ways:

http://burdzeyeview.wordpress.com/2014/08/18/why-voting-no-threatens-scotlands-nhs/

Wanman...who's words are at the top of the page. If they are AS 's no surprise. Yet again deliberately confusing matters. The currency is not an asset to be shared, never has been , never can be. That is simply a lie as despite what I said on the last page, he is a trained economist and DOES know the difference but prefers to lie to fool the people of Scotland.

As soon as he starts on that one and trying to confuse assets and debt then you know he has lost. Because that by definition is a basic deception. And judging from the above, people fall for it. As I said hundreds if pages ago it's the missing dollar tick that conjures use all the time. But in this case it is not a joke rather the leader of yS deliberately lying to everyone. Shameful.

Fortunately anyone can go to the BOE website and look at the balance sheet. Surprise, surprise currency is a liability along side borrowings. So the DO says we will only compensate for your liabilities if we can have your liabilities. Confused? That's exactly what he want you to be (yes, Rene do it for a living (and was taught by the same people who taught salmond) so helps to understand it and not be fooled by the DO)

NW nothing fibbing about the election results at all. The democratic deficit is another misrepresentation used by yS.

Plus, and this bit is just my opinion, when labour get back in up here. They'll just do what their leaders tell them what to do and bring holyrood policy as close to westministers as they can.

The likely relocation of much of the Scots financial sector into rUK should a CU not be negotiated would be extra bonus in terms of GDP and jobs.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU? That's an order of magnitude bigger than banks maybe leaving Scotland.

Just spent half an hour watching ronnie Corbett on YouTube off the back of bens offering.

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.
Last time I called an ambulance for a friend who's hip had came out, he had to wait 2 hours in the ambulance outside the hospital to be processed.
And when he did get in the staff were handing out complaints forms begging people to fill them in as they could not cope.one doctor said they had fourteen ambulances qued up outside waiting to bring in people a few days before.

Then a few days later I heard a GP ring up LBC complaining he took his young son to A&E the night before and was disgusted that at least half the people attending should not be there but instead should see their GP.

To which the presenter said do you not think you are partially to blame because it can take weeks to get an appointment, you opted out of working weekends and won't do home visits.

To which he replied I could not possibly do home visits as I have over 2000 patients on my books, how could I visit all of them.
I never wanted to slap someone as much in my life.

You see on the news one day A&Es being closed down.
Then a couple of months later the goverment announcing that the A&Es are over subscribed and can't cope, and you find yourself shouting at the TV "no shit Sherlock".

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

No Ben (links? *) but the Aussie head if the Clydesdale made his opinions well known in the FT today. Imagine running a bank without a lender of last resort. What does that do to your funding costs, and your mortgage costs? And this is what represents nirvana????

* so you are the boss of Citi or BoAML and you want to locate in London with a bank friendly regulation and vibrant capital markets or in Dublin? Hmmmmm, not a tough choice.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

We do. Every experience I've had with NHS Scotland has been outstanding.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU?

Contingency planning? You mean having a 'plan B' in case things don't go the way you were hoping?

Thats a 'king radical concept isn't it? 😆

Ben, hats off to you mate. I love your posts!

Forget the NHS, it is completely screwed.

Not where I stay it's not and I hope we continue to keep it that way.

If Scotland could provide a functioning NHS I would move there.

Why not then? Just one of many good reasons to.

So if the budget gets reduced in England due to privatisation

You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

Increased private sector involvement in the NHS has been going on years, right back to the days of New Labour (it doubled in their last 4 years in power), yet during that period the NHS budget hasn't fallen, in fact it has increased.

With that in mind further private sector involvement in the English and Welsh NHS should be good news for Scotland.

ernie_lynch - Member
So if the budget gets reduced in England due to privatisation
You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

You believe claims that privatisation in healthcare reduces costs ? Why ?

How do private companies win contracts? By having nicer logos? By treating their staff better? No, they win contracts by being cheaper.

Not seen the thing about Wall St banks making contingency plans to move from the UK to Ireland in case the UK leaves the EU? That's an order of magnitude bigger than banks maybe leaving Scotland.

being outside EU regulation would probably increase the attractiveness of rUK as a financial centre

but EU exit is unlikely, and if we did we would very likely remain part of the EEA in any case

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11040484/EU-exit-could-force-Wall-Street-banks-to-desert-Britain.html

http://rt.com/uk/181340-us-banks-desert-britain/

http://www.dw.de/us-banks-said-to-weigh-uk-exit-if-britain-leaves-eu/a-17860190

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/17/uk-britain-eu-banks-idUKKBN0GH0PX20140817

[img] [/img]

So can we say the lovebombing is over now?

I believe the ultimate target is to dismantle the free at the point of use and start charging.

Well I can't argue with that because you are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. And you know better than I do what you believe.

I could say that I believe the ultimate goal of Alex Salmond is to declare himself Emperor of Scotland and rule by decree.

But let's stick with known facts.

I believe the ultimate target is to dismantle free at the point of use and start charging and get people buying up insurance policies creating a 2 tier system. Maybe not from labour but from the Tories, most definitely.

very unlikely, too many groups in society (including me) would never vote for it.

the financial efficiency advantages of a free at point of use system are enormous when looked at a society level, the issue is managing the costs whilst improving outcomes especially when the PFI bubble really starts to bite

bencooper - Member

How do private companies win contracts? By having nicer logos? By treating their staff better? No, they win contracts by being cheaper.

Which must mean that the US spends a lot less on healthcare than us then. So why don't they ?

BTW, do you know if many of these so-called lefties who are backing YS also agree with you that privatisation reduces costs ?

Well quite a few (lefties) are now fans of the Adam Smith Institute Ernie, so god know where they will end up by the end of all this

They want to start charging people for drink related injuries.
That would be the thin end of the wedge.
Next it would be smoking related illnesses.
Then it will be sports related, what's that, you fell of your bike while hammering it down a rocky descent breaking your clavicle , that was a stupid thing to do. Out comes the big self inflicted rubber stamp and credit card reader.

And before you know it unless you are struck by lightning while sat in a comfy chair in your living room whilst wearing thick socks and listening to whale song you will find your self some how responsible and reaching for your bank card.

So can we say the lovebombing is over now?

I'll give you a hug when I'm next up in Scotland 😀

I think some people in rUK want the Union to continue and are happy for more devolution within the UK

I also think some people think that if you don't want to be part of the club then go but don't expect any favours, and there are shades of grey in between

I'm in the former group until you vote Yes then I'm in the latter

breaking the Union will change many things that make the UK a great place to be, changes to institutions will be significant and we will both be diminished. What I'm not going to support is in addition to the costs of separation to rUK is cough up any more money or any sovereignty to give you independence "lite"

but at least my kids can have a University education without tuition fees if you vote Yes so it's not all bad 😉

ernie_lynch - Member

But let's stick with known facts.

I won't need to use the NHS much in the next 30 years, touch wood. So facts as they current are are fairly irrelevant to me.

At the moment though my experience of the Scottish NHS throw family member is very positive. I see no need to turn it into a market.

Must admit I'm quite surprised at your approval of the marketisation of the NHS. Always had you down more to the left.

So facts as they current are are fairly irrelevant to me.

So let's talk about hypotheticals instead ?

Must admit I'm quite surprised at your approval of the market is at I on of the NHS.

🙄

vote "yes" and you wont get Eastenders.... got to be a vote winner

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11044573/Lord-Birt-Independent-Scotlands-viewers-must-pay-extra-for-BBC.html