[Closed] OS: Tell me about running trainers

if you can get to decathlon , one in south london and one in lakeside , they are normally good value for money .

try on loads, find ones that are comfy FOR YOU!!

are you overweight? flat footed? run on your toes?

"Runners Need" or "Run & Become".

Take the time, try them out for gait analysis. Worth it, very much worth it.

I would say a proper gait analysis is a must to get the correct trainer if you are to do any amount, it should be free if you buy the trainers after the testing. I learnt this the hard way with a knee injury due to over pronation from wrong trainers 🙁

I would say a proper gait analysis is a must to get the correct trainer

Not true. the gait analysis thing is a sales technique employed by shops to guilt you into buying a pair off them because you've had a free gait analysis.
I would firstly decide what type of running you want to do. if its a couple of km in a park/pavement I wouldn't spend a lot, just get one's that fit and have plenty of length (this is important and often overlooked) and heel cushioning.
if on the other hand you want to prgress to marathons and maybe even fell running/off road I would find a shop like the lakesrunner in ambleside who have actual runners that work there to size you and give you advice.

Not true. the gait analysis thing is a sales technique employed by shops to guilt you into buying a pair off them because you've had a free gait analysis.

The shop I used recomended a £40 pair, said we'll sell you what you like but these are what we recomend.
Have to admit I have wondered if it was a line. But certainly felt better when running.
Need some new ones now.

I fancy doing bit more trail running now. Is this gait thing ad important for trail running ? Tried running in some Salomon trainers but they were awful.

My local Decathlon did the gait analysis thing for me, listened to what I wanted, then more or less demanded I buy their second cheapest shoe. And they were right enough, they're just what I needed.

The running shoe industry has created a huge myth that you need to spend a fortune on shoes. However there is evidence that the more expensive the shoe, the more it can injure you by forcing you to run in an unnatural posture. Zola Budd ran very well bare foot, as Mankind did for the first few hundred thousand years but the industry soon sorted her out.

Buy the cheapest you can find and run properly on the balls of your feet.

Running shops will sell you shoes to allow you to run the way you run in their shop. However they don't tend to tell you if you're doing it the wrong way, I've found!

I'm completely sold on barefoot style running and the associated shoes. Google it if you are interested.

Not true. the gait analysis thing is a sales technique employed by shops to guilt you into buying a pair off them because you've had a free gait analysis.

+1

I did that, and got a pair that allegedly suited my running style. Since then, I've started doing a lot of trail running, so bought a pair of Sauconys, which were far cheaper. Trail shoes don't have features like over pronation and all that carry on, So you can buy off t'internet.

I now wear the Sauconys for all my running, no issues.

Gait analysis was developed by Nike, To sell ye dear shoes.

+1 for barefoot running. Well worth looking into before buying shoes with all sorts of unnatural cushioning and padding.

Im with Molgrips, google "vibram five fingers", thread closed

Yes - because you see people winning races barefoot or with those five finger shoes on? Nope. Didn't see any at the Bath Half Marathon last year, at any Park Run I've been to or anyone Mrs TT runs with. I'm not saying it is wrong, but it isn't mainstream and I'm not convinced that we're all naturally perfect runners so can do without correction and cushioning. We've adapted our world so we haven't had to run to eat, so the less-able-to-run-to-survive (most of us) use trainers!

Don't see anyone winning races on a Soul, Orange 5, Blur, Heckler, Singular, blah blah blah.....But that's what people ride?

you physically cannot run on tarmac with bare feet even amazonian hunters would have real trouble there with or without those gimmicky shoes designed to make it 'more' tolerable!

Watch the top 5k or 10k runners, they run off the balls of their feet, and their trainers don't have an inch of cushioning rubber for the soles. Barefoot is where its at.

another for barefoot here.
it takes time and patience but in my opinion it's so much better.
read the book, born to run, chill out with the running, i found it comes when i think the least and enjoy it.
merrel trail glove for the summer and a vivo something or other for the winter.
run on grass or softer surfaces to start and like i say chill with it.

Is that why all those top-end athletes run barefoot or in vibrams?

Despite being 18.5 stone and apparently having flat feet, these 'barefoot' shoes work well for me too. Bounce bounce.

Northwind - these top end athletes are not running in the same "running" shoes that the majority of people buy from sports direct.

Thats the point here

Have you seen any you like the look of ?

Maybe some nice red ones, or how about blue and silver ?

Sorry to sound like a smart arse but really any proper running shoe, (as opposed to a fashion trainer or gym trainer) will be fine.

One of the joys of running is not having to mess about with equipement.

Trainers on and out the door, doing what you love.... happy days

Slow down a bit...

Foot anatomy is complicated and there are a number of different needs. What suits one person may not suit another. Racing flats/ barefoot take a fair bit of work to get used to.

Try on 10 pairs of different shoes from different brands and buy the most comfortable.

For what it's worth, there's no 'best' way to run. Elite distance runners run in different ways - forefoot, midfoot or heel-striking. There was some research done at the Tokyo mara which showed no performance benefits from any particular running style. Just go out there and run how you feel comfortable.

Yes - because you see people winning races barefoot or with those five finger shoes on?

What do they run in then? Only post if you actually know and are not just assuming.

It is perfectly possible to run on tarmac in actual bare feet by the way. Your feet need a lot of toughening up mind.

One of the joys of running is not having to mess about with equipement.

Trainers on and out the door, doing what you love.... happy days

Yep. But it is worth spending a little time getting the right trainers in the first place.

Morning Yeti.

Morning.

I bought some new Asics racing flats last weekend. Minimalist but not barefoot.

I look fast in them.

Don't rush into the barefoot thing, better to get something with less heel lift than many of the common running shoes, but still cushioned and spend the first 6 months working on your technique (running on the balls of your feet, slight knee bend, head high, slight forward lean, high cadence) still with some cushioning underfoot.

some options

http://www.saucony.eu/en-GB/1667/progrid-mirage.html

http://nikerunning.nike.com/nikeos/p/nikeplus/en_US/products/free_pdp2?pid=384354

http://www.newtonrunning.co.uk/newton-products/the-shoes/mens-shoes/men-trainers/men-neutral-trainer-09.html

[i]I picked up some cheap Adidas running trainers out of Sports Direct which dont feel as if they are supporting my arches[/i]

Out of interest, why would you want them to feel like they are supporting your arches?
Personally (and the emphasis is very much on the personally) I can't stand the sensation of something pushing on my arch in a shoe, just feels weird.
Have you had a diagnosis elsewhere that says your arch need support?
Do you walk around at home without shoes? And if so does your foot feel unsupported?

When I was investigating my gait I wanted shoes with less heel - I picked some up in the shop that looked pretty flat and were told they were racing shoes and would not last long - fair enough, but they did look like what I wanted.

These are my flat shoes:

http://www.barefootathlete.co.uk/Shoes/New+Balance/Minimus+Trail+Shoe.html

I could see some sense in shoes like those if you're only running off road... on-road though... you'd have to be nuts.

Having said that I've run less than 100 miles in the last couple of years so what do I know?

Why would I have to be nuts yeti?

Barefoot running makes sense off road... in a more natural environment akin the the terrain we evolved to run across.

We didn't eveolve to pound tarmac for mile after mile.

Just my opinion, but it's clearly right.

We didn't eveolve to pound tarmac for mile after mile.

If your techniques good the surface makes little difference, but its fair to say we didn't evolve to smash our heels into tarmac for mile after mile.

The ground in East Africa is pretty hard you know.

Anyway it works. Your ankle and calf are your shock absorber - let it do its job.

Fair points... out of interest though, how many elite endurance runners run barefoot?

From what I can gather they race in the above-mentioned racing flats.

The question should be how many of them heel-strike? The only reason I have barefoot style shoes is because I wanted no heel - making it easier to forefoot strike.

The Southern Yeti - Member
Fair points... out of interest though, how many elite endurance runners run barefoot?

Dunno about barefoot (though I suspect that if you go to Ethiopia you'll find a few) but only 1.4% in this study forefoot strike:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17685722

Fair points... out of interest though, how many elite endurance runners run barefoot?

Probably the majority of them.

Interesting teaboy. However I cannot work out how heel striking could be in any way more efficient. The impact of your heel out in front of you acts as a brake, it has to.

They must be heel striking in a different way to how I was doing it, would like to see the videos they took in that study.

if you go out and sprint 100m, you're likely to run on your toes the whole way - because you're running faster, you land more on the mid-foot, or even the forefoot.

Sprinting as you are, you'll probably cover 100m in 14 seconds, which puts you only 1 second ahead of a Bekele or a Gebrselassie in a 5000m race, so is it any wonder they are midfoot strikers on the track - they're running as fast as most of us sprint?

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/04/running-technique-footstrike.html

Well there's heel striking and there's heel striking init.
you've got your leg out-stretched, foot a 45 degree everything going through your heel heelstrike, and you've got your heel gently kisses the ground first, followed by the midfoot taking the load type heelstrike.

Maybe two terms are needed to differentiate between the level of violence being inflicted on the heel - maybe Heel Strike and Heel Kiss, or bad aids heel strike and good aids heel strike 🙂

Eg. Heel strike
[img] [/img]

Heel Kiss.
[img] [/img]

However I cannot work out how heel striking could be in any way more efficient. The impact of your heel out in front of you acts as a brake, it has to.

I think the important bit is the contact time. Bear in mind these guys are elite, so probably running about 5min miles. The time their foot is in contact with the ground is so short they're pretty much skipping over the ground, rather than pounding it.

Edit - yep, just like that pic ^

Good pics Ian 🙂

Agreed.. good pics. I'd bet the kisser is running a fare wack faster than the striker could ever hope to...

There is a video of Joe Friel talking about the various aspects of running technique, he reckons thinking about forefoot striking is a good place to start for most runners (but its about the weight landing on the forefoot, not running on tiptoes which is where the heel kiss comes in, what is viewable by observation and how it feels to the runner don't always add up to the same thing), but its when you increase the cadence that all the different aspects come together.

For me it's not an either or thing. I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances when I know I'm not going to be able to concentrate all the time.

Ascis GT1260 and innov8 f 195

my times are generally slower in flats over 10k distances

See I know fast runners, I know fast forefoot runners, I know forefoot evangelists. The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is. I know forefoot evangelists who've got so bogged down in drills and technique they've lost the simple joy of just going for a run. I'd like to see more proof from the evangelists that they can run hard and injury free. And I'm fully aware that speed isn't only way to measure success or fun. But it's one way, and fairly easy to measure.

Me, I'm a kisser that tries to be light on his feet, keep a cadence up, lift with the hams, in lightly built shoes, without interfering with the simple joy thing. I've got countless hours of technique ingrained that would take a bit of unravelling. Whilst I'm still improving and not getting injured I'll probably continue not being that arsed.

What shoes? to Barefoot Bingo. Ten posts everytime. Other gaits are available, your mileage may vary.

I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances

Now, I wasn't sure about this - I haven't used my normal shoes since getting the flats. I figured that I'm trying to train my legs to run like that, so why would I go back?

The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is

Yeah but however fast you are you might be faster still with a different technique.

tries to be light on his feet

Right.. but what does that actually mean? I'm trying to be light on my feet by landing more on the forefoot.

On longer runs I land forefoot first then my whole foot ends up taking the weight.

I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances

This is the very advice I was given in a running shop when I bought my flats.

Turns out the trainers I have already are racing flats too. Good job I'm a neutral runner and have no aspirations of running further than a half marathon.

Molly did you read that thing I linked to? Chances are that by running faster you'll end up striking further forward on your foot anyway.

Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.

[i]who've got so bogged down in drills and technique they've lost the simple joy of just going for a run.[/i]

This.

I decided to be a fell runner, bought some fell shoes and some cheap road shoes and did it. It's the doing that counts, not the technique, its the racing that counts, not the gait analysis.

'You're just lucky, you don't get injured like me'

Cobblers, I just made sure I built up to everything slowly and carefully ending up doing 45 miles a week plus racing.

Back to the OP, how long have you used the cheap trainers? I probably have a very similar pair of adidas sports soccer specials, at first they were a bit tight like all adidas but after a few runs they were fine and I have used them for 3+ years with no problems up until now where I am getting foot cramps so will change them soon. So you need to give your shoes a chance. I will probably buy a lighter weight trainer next time, Nike lunarglide and free run look interesting as do Puma's FAAS range, they have improved their range with Bolt being a great marketing tool. Asics and NB also seem popular so I will look at their ranges.

What are your running goals to lose weight or become a reasonably fast runner, maybe both. To lose weight you want to burn as many calories as possible so a lot of upper body is fine maybe interval sprinting will be better than a long slow 5km. To run fast over 5km/10km etc you need less upper body movement, check out the difference between Bolt and Farah. Farah only really starts using lots of energy towards the last couple of laps.

Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.

[i]Seems that evidence for barefoot running is sketchy if not completely non-existant.[/i]

Quite true. If only people acknowledged the same holds true for raised heels in shoes, we'd be making progress 🙂

The fast people mostly just are fast and their technique is what it is.

lol! That is so true! What shoes you have is going to make little difference until your getting quick times and even then it is minimal, the only reason I would change your shoes is if they are uncomfortable.

Agreed... I just can't help thinking barefoot is a bit of a fad though.

Running should be allowed to have it's 29ers too 🙂

For me it's not an either or thing. I've a pair of flats that I use for shorter distances and sprinting, and a chusioned pair that I use for longer distances when I know I'm not going to be able to concentrate all the time.

This is the best advice on the thread.

Phat Shoes...

[img] [/img]

Yeti - Humans have only been using cushioned running shoes for the last 3 decades. Heel strike and cushioned shoes are just a passing fad in our 200,000 year evolutionary history.

What do they run in then? Only post if you actually know and are not just assuming.

Get off your barefoot high horse will you? I've not seen anyone running distance or competitively off track in barefoot shoes. Granted I have not examined every runner, but a half marathon, a couple of all-terrain races, some CaniX, a higher than averagely sporty peer group and Mrs TT's running club(s) seem a fairly broad view of things.

My point is that they may well work for some people - particularly those with a good style, gait and probably fairly slim build. The rest of us (imperfect gait, different length legs, old injuries, heavier than average) will probably be happy with 'normal' trainers. I suffered far less once I had been fitted for trainers best suited to me rather than just buying on looks. Elite athletes winning in lightweight shoes either run on a track or don't expect the shoes to last more than a few races, as well as having a good style and a much higher speed than us plodders.

As is tarmac and recreational running...

I've done dozens of events on road, trail, cross country and fell in the past few years. I've helped organise a couple. I know one barefooter by name that turns out regularly and have seen a handful of others. A couple more recreationally. And yes, I know not everyone races but there is definitely more internet noise about barefoot than the actual number of people doing it would suggest. Then there's Ian obviously 🙂

I am not an advocate of barefoot running, and don't run in barefoot shoes, but I do suggest many aspects of the technique involved in barefoot running could and should be applied to all running.
Improving technique and gait is better for injury prevention,injury is not an excuse to ignore gait and technique.

Ok. I walked into that one. Rocks, saltpans and sun backed mud are also hard...at least they are were I grew up in Africa and ran barefoot until begging my parents to buy me some fashionable trainers as a teenager. After 23 year of injuries, muscle aches and joint pain I've rediscovered the way I ran as a child. It works for me, it may not work for other, but it's worth looking into in order to make an informed choice.

MSP I think that if you're running ok in your trainers and your injury free then why change?

People get to wound up ( me included) by fashion and "science" on the Internet. There was a bloke on another running thread here who was saying, "

Ok. I walked into that one.

Ahh, but because of your forefoot striking technique, you've nimbly got away with it 🙂

My son has said he wants to start running when the nights get a bit longer and I'd like to start with him. We both need trainers, now I like the idea of 'barefoot' running but would it be a good idea for those new to running?

I've got 'funny feet' - high arches and wear to my heal of my right shoe which suggests overpronation. I'm not overweight and I'm fairly fit.

I like the look of those New Balance Minimus Trail Shoes, would they work for me on the road?

I've not seen anyone running distance or competitively off track in barefoot shoes

[url] http://www.inov-8.com/New/UK/News-Detail.asp?L=26&N=409 [/url]

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s.
These are classed as 'barefoot shoes'.
Granted it's a terrible term though.

MSP I think that if you're running ok in your trainers and your injury free then why change?

I guess it depends what your targets are, I am training to do a half ironman this year, I have always been an awful runner, overweight with bad gait and technique, there is no way I could do the mileage I need to do without improving my technique. I have tried to increase mileage in the past without working on technique and it has left me hobbling around in pain.

I don't ever think I will be a good runner, but I do think I can go faster and further with less injuries by improving my technique.

I also wonder if some of the people who say its rubbish, actually have pretty good technique to start with.

Running mid to long distance is about as natural as riding a mountain bike for a lot of people.

This argument of comparing the majority of UK runners to Africans running in barefeet just doesn't work. It might apply if you're 7 stone and have a family history going back for thousands of years of running for hours and hours.

I think my 15 stone frame and that of my father, his his ancestors before that were not designed to run 30 miles in bare feet at all, but rather are more suited to short sprints. We were probably good at fighting with massive swords and ploughing fields though.

It's horses for courses, innit?

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s.

I said 'off track', not 'off road'. Far more comfortable with the idea of traction over cushioning for off road running, but tarmac and concrete are a different thing (as are tracks).

I said 'off track', not 'off road'.

Oh dear what have I started....

I can't work out how to do the quote thing but in response to the above points/questions:

My trainers didnt feel as if my left arch was being supported, then after a while I ended up with a pain in my right hip which I've never had before. My route was a mixture of woodland singletrack and pavement/tarmac, about a 4 mile route. Also, although I tried the trainers on in the shop and they felt fine, and being a 10 in Adidas they just dont feel as comfortable as I think they should.

My main aim to just to do some other type of exercise other than cycling and to get back to my pre-xmas weight (dropping half a stone).

Thank you for the advice so far!

Nike cortez!

A pretty high proportion of off-road races are won with x-talon 190s and bare-grip 200s. These are classed as 'barefoot shoes'.

Oh christ I'm a barefooter after all! When do I start winning?

My main aim to just to do some other type of exercise other than cycling and to get back to my pre-xmas weight (dropping half a stone).

In that case I would start with some of those things you can buy to put in the shoes to support your arch. Then if that fails try another brand, you will have to ask on a running forum to find if Nike are wider than Asics or if NB have a better arch than Puma. Trying them on in a shop is not going to give you much info, so you will have to trust the shop assistant and online reviews. If it gets painful when running slow down or even stop, you need to wear in the trainers like any shoe. Although it should not take to long.

I like the look of the toggle on the Inov8 trainers but the sole looks like a child designed it.

To lose weight I have always found diet over exercise sees the best results, combine the two plus perhaps some press ups, sit ups, tricep dips and that half stone will fall off! Good luck

Saucony Progrids.

Molly did you read that thing I linked to? Chances are that by running faster you'll end up striking further forward on your foot anyway

Yes - but from my experience I want to be on my toes above about 8m/m pace, which I don't consider fast.

Get off your barefoot high horse will you?

I'm not on one - I've only made suggestions for people to look at, not tried to evangelise.

My point is that they may well work for some people - particularly those with a good style, gait and probably fairly slim build. The rest of us (imperfect gait, different length legs, old injuries, heavier than average) will probably be happy with 'normal' trainers.

The theory is that 'normal' shoes allow you to continue with imperfect technique and whatnot, whereas "barefoot style" shoes make you adopt a better technique. You have to do more work and use more muscles, but that benefits you in the end because you are using your muscles for stability not relying on the shape of your shoes.

Personally that appeals to my sense of physical aesthetics and completeness - call it purism if you like, it wouldn't be unfair.

As for fashion - I experimented with forefoot striking once on a treadmill without having read a single thing about it or knowing anything of the current fashion. Same speed, same conditions, I thought I'd try running like I do when I sprint, and it was amazing - like when you've been carrying a heavy rucksack and you take it off. I think I posted on here at the time and everyone replied saying 'yeah google for barefoot running'.

FWIW I started doing it with a pair of Brookes Ravenna which were sold to me after the running expert watched me run in about 15 different pairs, and I was labelled over-pronator. They still have the grey wedge but a much lower heel than previously and they are advertised as having 'support when you need it, not when you don't' - not sure what that means. They weren't bad at all but I still felt the heel was getting in my way, which is why I went looking for flat shoes and ended up with the NBs.

After a year or so I went for a run in the original shoes I'd bought which felt like boats - huge heels, really wide and awful to run in.

just be careful not to knacker your calf muscles up like I did. I'm still out of action with a strained soleus and inflamed achillies. I [i]was[/i] a fast 41min 10k cross country runner. Hoping to be back running in springtime.

Kev