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Of course this has nothing to do with gun control and the ability for someone with a grudge to pop down to Target or Dick's.. 🙁
9 dead and 40 in hospital now
Apparently,there is a mass shooting in the States,every day,you just don't hear about it.
Someone will be along to state "guns don't shoot people, people shoot people"
But when was the last time someone shot someone else without a gun?
Something about Orlando this weekend...
****ed up doesn't cover it.
I'm getting compassion fatigue for a society of narcissists that chooses to arm it's psychotic teens..
And it's becoming less newsworthy than binners buying a pie
why do mass shootings in the states not shock me.
Can a nation be nominated for the Darwin Awards?
Sad times.
Any more detail on the shooter(s)?
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36510272 ]An FBI spokesman said they were investigating whether the attacker was a "lone wolf". He said the attacker appeared to "have leanings towards" radical Islamist ideology but it was not yet clear whether this was a case of domestic or international terrorism.[/url]
Of course this has nothing to do with gun control and the ability for someone with a grudge to pop down to Target or Dick's..
Like the Paris shootings were proof of the need for better Gun control laws in France ?
[i]why do mass shootings in the states not shock me[/i]
It becomes shocking when you read the list of major shootings since 1999, including 20 elementary school children killed in their school in 2012...
and there were 372 mass shootings in the US last year alone.
Oh good, someone's conflated a discussion about some deranged idiot in Florida into international terrorism - exactly the same argument used by the NRA and the rest of the loony right to justify the ownership of automatic weapons. US domestic terrorism = lack of gun control it's got f*-all to do with Europe.
You are Charlton Heston and I claim my $50
I think someone is trying to point out that the police/FBI are suggesting that this may be a terrorist inspired event rather than a "regular for the US" mass shooting.
Someone else seems to be looking for a nonexistent and unnecessary argument.
Any more detail on the shooter(s)?
Apparently he was a radicalised Muslim, who it seems did not approve of homosexuality.
I've never come across a story where one of these gun-owning citizens stopped a terrorist attack or other major (or even minor) crime. It always seems to be about the killing of innocents.
Apparently getting health insurance in the US that covers treating mental ill-health is prohibitively expensive. Result?
Advrider have a defensive shooting of the week thread (and a spree shooting of the week thread). They have endless self-defense shootings. Not very news worthy when you have a spree killing every day.
Islam-inspired terrorism = gun lobby speak for changing the subject
"50 killed" reported on BBC 🙁 Does it matter that it was some religion-inspired loony or just some run-of-the mill nut-job, but that both have the access to the means?
Does it matter that it was some religion-inspired loony or just some run-of-the mill nut-job, but that both have the access to the means?
I'll be crucified for this, but I think it does matter. A recent poll of British Muslims showed that 80 percent strongly disapproved of homosexuality. Now that is not the same thing as committing violence against people, but it makes me understand why many gay people are against further migration from Islamic countries.
I await the NRA putting out a statement saying that now is not the time to discuss gun control while people are mourning.
...and repeat.
Presumably, it being flat-as-a-pancake Florida, this latest massacre by Islamist Fanatic pond life was by the gun, because there were no handy mountains to throw gay people from to their deaths, because some "Al" god-bloke thing doesn't like people enjoying non-vanilla sex.
Apparently he was a radicalised Muslim, who it seems did not approve of homosexuality.
Not many of them do.
dovebiker"50 killed" reported on BBC Does it matter that it was some religion-inspired loony or just some run-of-the mill nut-job, but that both have the access to the means?
Yes, it matters. Religion, in this case Islam gave him the justification. America's gun laws gave him the means. Without those means he could have found plenty of other ways, bombing or fire being just two examples. Without the justification......
All the major Abrhamic religions demonize homosexuality. When you have Wahhabist groups in Saudi Arabia spending literally billions of dollars a year to spread their particular flavlour of Islam, it matters.
Islam-inspired terrorism = gun lobby speak for changing the subject
Or normal speak for islam-inspired terrorism perhaps?
Reports now that at least 50 are dead and this is the biggest mass shooting in the US in modern history.
I have not read anything about him being a radicalised Muslim,msomat this point in time it sadly just the worst mass shooting ever in the US
So if this was a catholic person would we be calling it terrorism or hate crime?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism
Got back from Colorado yesterday, when you see the fire power you can buy at Cabbellas it is a miracle there aren't more shootings.
Can you imagine the carnage that would happen here if people had access to guns.
jambalaya - MemberI have not read anything about him being a radicalised Muslim,msomat this point in time it sadly just the worst mass shooting ever in the US
Apparently his name is Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, and the FBI are persuing lines of inquiry that he may have had extremist beliefs.
Can you imagine the carnage that would happen here if people had access to guns
All my neighbours have guns. Somehow we manage not to shoot each other.
Reports now that at least 50 are dead and this is the biggest mass shooting in the US in modern history.
50 dead and 54 injured, apparently. Jesus.
But when was the last time someone shot someone else without a gun?
Want to borrow my bow?
I'm kinda torn on this. I mean, sure, it's considerably harder to cause this sort of carnage without ready access to lots of firepower. But if someone is that way out then they're going to cause bother regardless of their choice of method; without guns maybe the shooter might've knocked up some sort of explosive (and perhaps even caused more casualties). Gun control in the US is an oxymoron, but it's the human element that's the real problem.
Turning your question around; when was the last time a gun shot someone without a human behind it?
I've never come across a story where one of these gun-owning citizens stopped a terrorist attack or other major (or even minor) crime. It always seems to be about the killing of innocents.
I guess it's difficult to report on events that didn't happen.
You're right though of course; it's one of the excuses that get trotted out as to why your average American "needs" a gun, but it's broadly fallacious. IIRC most shootings in the US are accidental, and it's often with their own weapon.
As much as they like to think of themselves as the next Dirty Harry, in an actual firefight situation I'd wager most gun owners wouldn't be able to hit a barn door whilst sat on the sneck.
The only long term answer is gun control. The old argument, that it is the last protection against the government taking all your liberties, doesn't work anymore, as the sophistication of modern weaponry means Mr Government can vaporize your town in a blink of an eye.
All my neighbours have guns. Somehow we manage not to shoot each other.
That proves nothing and your friends don't have AR15's
That proves nothing and your friends don't have AR15's
Is it just AR15's that kill people? Learn something new every day.
[url= http://www.attn.com/stories/8813/president-obama-addresses-gun-control ]Interesting vid about the difficulty of gun control legislation [/url]
scroll down the bottom of the page and watch Obama explain why gun control isn't ever going to be discussed in any sensible way.
Ha ha how droll you are 🙄
Go on then I am bored, how do you and your friends not shoot each other?
Same way as the other 700,000 British gun owners don't shoot each other.
Americans have a particular problem. It's cultural. To suggest we'd be worse than them is utter fantasy.
Is it just AR15's that kill people?
Well they are a shit load more efficient at it that some old boy farmer's shot gun or 0.22. All are pretty marvellous at tucking under your own chin however, as countless old boy farmers have attested to over the years. The point is of course is that there is no reason any private citizen needs an AR15. Withdrawing the right of all citizen's ability to own such an thing is not going effect a single person's ability to earn a crust. This is so stupefyingly obvious that I really struggle to understand why the slightly more sane members of that batshit mental nation haven't given their idiot brethren a slap and taken their toys off them.
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
Yes, the royal marines must have thought long and hard about if they replaced their old SA80s with C8s or bunch of shotguns 🙄
Sad to read of this attack yet again in the states...
I think that the old rhetoric of gun ownership to keep the government honest is a hollow argument as it seems government officers sort it out each time.
Maybe the police should stand aside and say On you go dear citizens....
I buy the cultural thing, if you think it is fantasy that with the ease to get weapons that there is in America it would be different here then you are a bit simple.
Who said one gun is scarier than another?
Yes, the royal marines must have thought long and hard about if they replaced their old SA80 with C8s or bunch of shotguns
We are talking about shooting unarmed people in an enclosed space. Any gun will do that.
Tragic stuff in a society that still insists on owning a gun a basic human right.
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
They could do but it'll take a lot longer and more effort. Given a weapon like an automatic rifle will easily penetrate wood doors, breeze block, human flesh and that crappy new bricks houses are made of even from a distance. Add to the rate of fire on to of that and it's almost like they were designed to cause maximum damage.
We are talking about shooting unarmed people in an enclosed space. Any gun will do that.
It'd be considerably harder to shoot over a hundred with a revolver though. The death count would be 7 at most, I'd wager.
Any gun will do that.
Slowly.
News flash - people have legs.
Bang bang.....'you just stay right where you are whilst I reload'....bang bang.....'don't you run away - I need a hundred of you to stand right where you are whilst I reload 50 times'.....
He could have done the same thing with a shotgun (as could any mass shooting). Saying one gun is scarier than another is simply stupid.
Nah, your talking crazy, id take a round from a shotgun over an Ar at 30 yards.
Very little over penetration too.
The US has too many guns in circ to make gun control work.
I buy the cultural thing, if you think it is fantasy that with the ease to get weapons that there is in America it would be different here then you are a bit simple.
Of course it would be different. We're a different culture. And to suggest it would be [i]worse[/i] here and call me simple?
Nah, your talking crazy, id take a round from a shotgun over an Ar at 30 yards
That's a big room.
Derek Bird was someone's friend.
That's a big room.
Feel free to school me on the size of Gay clubs in America
A recent poll of British Muslims showed that 80 percent strongly disapproved of homosexuality.
I wonder what the statistic for NRA members is?
Robert Sartin was someone's friend.
Robert Sartin was someone's friend
I'm sure Timothy McVeigh and Harold Shipman had friends too.
I bet you have too.
Do you have a point?
Take the guns away, those batshit mentalists will find other means to efficiently destroy thier 'enemies' in the name of God/America.
Half the country genuinely believes that Trump is the man that will solve the worlds problems. Guns are the least of thier problems.
It comes down to ease of doing violence.
Most lone gun attacks would not take place unless there was easy access to guns (esp high powered ones).
The perpetrators wouldn't have the know how to make a bomb, for example, or would probably blow themselves up trying to make it.
It is quite difficult to do, but walking into a gun shop, paying your money, doing some practice in the woods, and you are ready to commit mass murder.
Take the guns away, those batshit mentalists will find other means to efficiently destroy thier 'enemies' in the name of God/America.
It's pretty hard to kill 50+ people with a rolled-up newspaper. The UK has just as many batshit mentalists as the USA, the reason we don't have daily mass shootings is we can't buy assault rifles. It's that simple.
It's that simple
But it isn't. Mass killings in the US are a new and growing problem. Access to guns isn't anything new.
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Explain it then,
Wouldn't have happened if everyone in the club was carrying an AR31.
Gun ownership has grown, and it's grown at a higher rate than the population so there's now more than one gun for every person in the USA.
There is also a copycat thing to it, where it becomes an easy way for a disturbed person to get their name in the news.
But there's still the simple fact that if this person hadn't been legally able to buy guns, he wouldn't have been able to kill 50+ people.
Explain it then
It's cultural. Quite how this state of mind has come to be I have no idea. It's a broken society.
Wouldn't have happened if everyone in the club was carrying an AR31.
You've got to be a troll...
It's that or you're Charlton Heston!
You need two things
1. A nutter full of hate
2. a device that is really good at killing lots of folk
One of those on its own is worrying However if BOTH are freely available then you will get more of these sort of things
No one with strict controls wants everyone to be armed as its pretty obvious what will happen
Gun lovers can argue the toss - thats why america has lots of guns and these sort of things and we dont
Respect and commiserations to the victims, the survivors and their loved ones
It's cultural. Quite how this state of mind has come to be I have no idea. It's a broken society.
You're actually arguing the same point but break that culture by taking away the easing way of performing such atrocities and it'll reduce them. Of course if they are really meant they can find a way but if someone can walk to their gun cabinet, grand automatic rifle and hundreds of rounds it's far easier.
It's pithy etc, but:
You've got to be a troll...
To be fair, I think it was meant to highlight the way that gun lovers and their buddies in the NRA have spouted the same line without a hint of irony in response to school and church shootings.
Mass shootings prevented by upstanding gun totin' citizens: 0
You're actually arguing the same point but break that culture by taking away the easing way of performing such atrocities and it'll reduce them.
Sure, get rid of guns and you'd have a lot less shootings.
That's not going to happen, and access to guns and gun obsession are flip sides of the culture. It all seemed to work OK until a generation ago.
Quite why it's spiralling out of control now a tough problem for the Americans.
To be fair, I think it was meant to highlight the way that gun lovers and their buddies in the NRA have spouted the same line without a hint of irony in response to school and church shootings.
Fair comment.
It's sometimes hard to tell!
It'd be considerably harder to shoot over a hundred with a revolver though. The death count would be 7 at most, I'd wager.
Let's hope that they don't think to take more than one revolver.
Anything to do with Ramadan - shootings started at 2am, just after he probably had stuffed his face for his final meal before matrydom.
I wonder what Trump makes of all this...
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Oh.
Also worth noting that while gun ownership is on the rise, it is rather more on the rise amongst a shrinking proportion. 75% of gun owners are males, with an average of just under 8 guns each. Around 50% of Americsn households don't have a gun at all.
Apparently he liked taking selfie (lots on his phone) and wearing NYPD t-shirts, so he accepted a lot of the western culture, just not homosexuality.
Or maybe he was a frustrated closet gay made angry by the open displays around him - he did apparently take a lot of selfies...
I wonder what Trump makes of all this..
I can't help but think how incongruous & ironic the words "Trump" & "smart" are when they appear near each other...