Opinions - been ripped off...

Ask for the money back, which you won’t get btw.
If he’s clearly used the materials you supplied and is denying it, ask him to leave and find another plumber.
Don’t even bother with his crappy explanation He’s a thief and a liar not someone I’d want in my house.

He’s the reason honest tradesman get a bad reputation.

Absolutely. Then pan him online. Reviews matter. Or set about him with a set of stilsons.

Bin him off I'm ex trades. if your certain he has used your stuff tell the others just because they know each other don't take it for granted they are friends.
Will he service his work if it went tits up in 6 months?

He came across as a really nice guy, even gave me a hand with getting the worktops in when I asked him to help out because they were bloody heavy.

Being ripped off, or people trying to was one of the reasons I started doing alot of work DIY. As things have been going well, i've kind of let my guard down with these guys. I would hate to think because the job is drawing to a close they are starting to try to sting me.

I'm not naturally a trusting person. no reciepts for materials, no payment from now on.

Can't see how he can even justify the 20% markup on the materials he provided when he went to pick it in the middle of the day for 2 hours when I was paying his rate. I could have easily got screwfix to deliver it for free or would have popped down myself if I'd know it was going to save hundreds of pounds....

Really kicking myself. Was talking to the missus this morning about having to careful with what we spend on christmas for the kids and I've just given away £500

I think you should already be looking for somebody else but, I'd get him back in, talk a bit over a tea then drop in a normal conversation something about using your parts and the leak.

Catch him off guard mid tea and see if he is still as relaxed as previous when confronted calmly.

Then explain that you would like him to finish the job and give you a refund of £500.

Chances are he'll be off before you can get to the last bit but worth a go.

If he agrees, watch the 'trucker with an f' like a Hawk.

I couldn’t let that lie. If you are 100% certain he’s done what you say then I’d pull him up on it and walk him off site. He’s stolen from you, there’s no getting away from that. Agree with reviews etc, maybe even threaten to call the police.

Assuming the other tradesmen are decent folks they’ll hopefully carry on as before, maybe even help find a new plumber. If they were thinking of ripping you off too you will have sent a message.

Having read a few other tradesmen on here saying how things are tightening up I’m amazed this has happened. If there is less work about then a few bad reviews might actually do him some harm.

We had similar with a builder last year, although that was to do with over-ordering, not finishing a job and, well, blah to the tune of about £400. Anyway, try not to feel like an idiot - the fault is entirely with him.

Well I've fixed the leak. absolute ball ache to get to right I'm the corner. had to sort it now as worktops are going on in the morning.

it looks like he ran out of my speedfit 90s and used one of the old ones I had knocking about in the bottom of the box. he didn't even use fresh inserts. I can tell because they have black stuff on. would have replaced the 90 connector but as all mine have mysteriously disappeared I refitted with new inserts and pipe cut cleanly at 90 leak fixed. did have to cut the main pipe and put and inline in to be able to pull the pipe into arms reach

so. ripped off and bodged job.

I'm going to talk to the main builder Monday about it and see if he has any other plumbers. if not I'm doing the rest myself. it's not rocket science.

work wise these guys are rushed off their feet still. my builder has been sharing jobs so our build is much slower than I wanted. part of the reason I don't want to throw any more spanners in the works

Bin him off and give him negative reviews on every possible platform. He’s a thief.

Get him back to fix the leak, be there when he opens it up to look "Oh, that's looks like the pipework I supplied, that must be where it went". See what he says then bin him off

Maybe a chat to explain you've checked, show him he's made a "mistake" and give him a chance to set things right.

Then never use him again and tell all the other trades, who may reconsider recommending him in future.

before I put any reviews on line etc... I will give him a chance to make things good, maybe he has genuinely forgotten he used all my kit and accidently used 200% as the markup on his calculator rather than 20.

before I put any reviews on line etc… I will give him a chance to make things good,

Yep, stay neutral and calm but firm.

Give him a chance to save face.

In reply to that
No way, hep20 is noticeably different to JG speedfit. Some guys will only use JG, some only Hep, others still run in copper but use tectite sprint single use push fit. Then there are some who will always run copper and solder as they go.
And he hasn't ripped you off for £900. He did a fair bit of work and used his knowledge and experience to also comply with build regs. However, he has effectively stolen the fittings by claiming and charging for hep, and using the pre purchased JG, then charged maybe £250 to £350 more than the jobs worth.
I dont know exactly how many days he was on site, running around time etc. Plus soil stacks are cheap, strap boss kits also but manifolds and connectors do add up.

You dont need him back, amd you will not get a refund. Its crap but there's alot of work for plumbers at the moment.
You still should be able to find one who will fit you in around other jobs as they get cancelled at last minute regularly on second fix where other work has overrun.

he was £250 a day. 4 days work. billed £1980 for the work stated above.

he was pretty slow compared to other trades, plus disappearing off to get materials for 2hrs at a time

builder also removed the old stack for him and drilled alot of the holes. and has paid for the skip....

with my quick tot up the mats were in the region of £400 with markup. that's using the rates I get at screwfix

Which is probably almost exactly what he will have paid, maybe 10% off on certain items if they were on special offer.
250 day is pretty much standard day rate, the problem is, and this is without seeing the work. It sounds like 2 full days work.
Builders will have let him kmow what needed doing, so maybe a 0730 screefix run, then at work all day with a 430pm finish and potentially another sf collection. Ditto day 2. If matey builder is sds drilling the wall and probably holding the 110 soil stack in place while its clamped up then that is not a long job. 1st fix plumbing in speedy fit, lay flat 15mm pipe, some talons, should be bread and butter to a pro plumber

Arrange for one of your friends to be in the house and arrange to meet him at your house on Monday.

Be all pally with him and walk him into the room with your pal in.

Sit down and have a general chit chat with him and get around to how money is tight at the moment. Then explain to him that you believe that he used your materials and did a sub-standard job and he is to refund you £500 for the materials and the time you took to fix the leak. He can do a bank to bank transfer whilst he's sitting there. Be very calm the whole time. If he refuses then inform him that you'll post negative reviews on every social media platform and trade site.

He still might refuse to pay but at least you tried.

I did this with a tradesman over some internal doors he supplied and installed that I wasn't happy with. We agreed to part company and agreed a new price.

It's worth a shot IMO.

So actually your £1000 down tje road.
You paid £1980 for a £980 job.
And that is allowing 3 days work plus £230 for plumbing. Believe me £230 at screwfix buys an awful lot of plumbing.
And he will have had a £20 voucher if you spend £200 through the post last week if hes plumbfix. Plus he stole your JG fittings

I was always concerned about t&m and now have been bitten. The job was a bit fiddly as when the cast stack was removed it disturbed the concealed cistern, so the nice new ceiling needed to be cut. Plus the waste in the kitchen needed to be moved about 30cm. He went to Screwfix during the day so no going early before work

I actually have a plumbfix account as I’ve spent a lot with Screwfix in the past, so I reckon I’m pretty close on materials. I also have a 10% off on my desk at this moment.

Really gutted. Pretty much decided I won’t be using him again. I’d rather get the high street guys in spot sort the gas, even though that’s a premium rate

He went to Screwfix during the day so no going early before work

You seem to be fixated on him going to Screwfix on your time.

When was he supposed to go?

Not saying any of the rest of it's right but don't start throwing unreasonable nonsense in with genuine greviances you'll only give him leverage to throw you off the scent

Depends where Screwfix is in relation to your home. I had a guy doing some work for me when I was doing up current house , who passed Screwfix on the way to mine. So I said to him , go to Screwfix on the way in , but do that at 8am when you are meant to be at mine. I don’t expect anyone to “work” on their own time. I was 20 mins from Screwfix so if he was to go during the day then it would be a 1 hour round trip ( minimum) as opposed to starting at the house 30 mins later in the morning.

Constant bone of contention this. As if customers think you spend your weekends at Screwfix so can just pick up their stuff whilst you're there...

Missing the point, him visiting Screwfix is not the main issue, although disappearing for 2hrs twice might explain why the job took 4 days. He overcharged on materials (and I know it’s from Screwfix as he told me) and he also used my gear up and then has claimed he didn’t and I can prove he has used it. And I was an idiot in paying it because I feel like I’m over a barrel and now I’m regretting it

Screwfix are a couple of miles away, there are 3 of them close by, they also offer next day delivery, and I think they may even offer 1hr delivery slots. It’s pretty easy to get stuff delivered to site for free. I place and order most weeks at the moment hence why I have a trade account as well. They offered it due to spend levels, didn’t have to blag it or pretend I was trade. I don’t expect trade to be attending Screwfix at the weekend, that’s a silly statement.

No I'm missing nothing - I'm advising you not to fixate on the non issues he will use it against you to errode the main issues.

Your heading quickly down a " well if you know so much about it do it your self " and he leaves path.

Wasn't aimed at you OP. Just a general observation.

On a related note, working for younger people can be a nightmare. They're inevitably wannabe project managers cos they've watched Grand Designs and they know best. They've watched some guy ion Youtube in the US paint houses with a drone or something and wonder why you're not doing it that way  if you claim to be professional. On the other side of the coin, I always used to work on my own cars. When work got busier I decided it was time to start using a garage. I thought I was just being friendly by explaining that I would normally have done a certain job myself, but could tell that I'd immediately gotten their backs up from the start. Relations never seemed to improve after that as I could tell they thought me a 'know it all'. Found a new  garage and kept my gob shut and things are going well...

Screwfix sprint is the delivery service, and yes its 1hr time slots. But they wont drop 3m soil pipe, so he was driving for 10mins, spemding 15 inside sf, tben 10mins back to yours and having a nice sleep for an hr somewhere en route.

probably. ah well. knew at the time o should have insisted on receipts. expensive lesson learnt. isn't it a shame you basically can't be trusting of people these days. I had to dig my kit out of the loft to fix the leak so no reason I can't just crack on myself.

oh and I didn't cost clips or screws. you can buy alot of clips and screws for £500

Constant bone of contention this. As if customers think you spend your weekends at Screwfix so can just pick up their stuff whilst you’re there…

I'd assume it was priced into the job rate unless told otherwise.

Sit down and have a general chit chat with him and get around to how money is tight at the moment. Then explain to him that you believe that he used your materials and did a sub-standard job and he is to refund you £500 for the materials and the time you took to fix the leak. He can do a bank to bank transfer whilst he’s sitting there. Be very calm the whole time. If he refuses then inform him that you’ll post negative reviews on every social media platform and trade site.

He still might refuse to pay but at least you made yourself look like a ****.

FTFY

If you're going to confront him, be straight. Tell him what it looks like to you, and ask him if he's going to do anything about it. Then tell him to piss off.

[Ooh - swear filter! **** = Tuesdays, Wednesdays And Thursdays]

If he has intentionally ripped you off I find it hard to believe that it's an isolated incident. That being the case and all the tradesmen already knew each other as you say, I find it equally hard to believe that they're all blissfully unaware of the plumber's modus operandi.

Tell him "good news, that kit you lost, I found it!" If a direct approach doesn't work I'd be sorely tempted to kick the lot of them off site and tell them exactly why, see if peer pressure has any sway. (I almost certainly wouldn't, but I'd want to.)

He's only got 5 years to finish it. Kicking the contractors off site could seriously jeopardise that ,!

“I can see why you advocated Hep stuff my good man. I spotted water spilling out of that corner. Wouldn’t you know, it was piped and joined with JG! I’m so looking forward to you replacing it with the good kit you bought. Please leave me what’s left. I’m so glad the JG stuff disappeared.‘?

Edit. Though it would be better to genuinely inquire and then provide direct and unambiguous feedback. Follow that with a specific and direct request for what you want to happen.

You’re not laying a new patio soon are you?

@unfitgeezer is the correct answer. Show him the door, and get another plumber.

Don't bother with any of the trap setting and smart Alice stuff.

Just state what you know (without stating an opinion) and ask him if there is an explanation.

You seem to be fixated on him going to Screwfix on your time.

When was he supposed to go?

IDK, not used T&M before but was thinking of it for a job I might have doing in the new year, so a question.

Sounds like this isn't T&M, but T&(M+20%) if he's upping the cost of the materials by 20% (ignore whether he's nicking the materials actually for now)

That feels to me like the 20% is to cover the inconvenience of going to get them, the petrol, and so on. While he's doing that he isn't doing your job and yet you're also paying an hourly rate (or part of his day rate) for him to do that. You're paying him twice for that activity, no?

I wouldn't object to an hour's labour working out what you need and ordering it all for delivery at the start, maybe even that 20% upcharge is to cover the fact he might spend an hour a couple of evenings before doing that. But I'll be damned if it covers daily 2 hour trips to eat bacon rolls at the tea van while he goes for bits and pieces. Get organised, you're supposed to be a pro.

And yep, there may be a hidden workaround needed at some point and you might need to allow for him to go and get a bit to sort it.....but if he wasn't ripping you off over the obvious stuff like 5m of pipe that he could have ordered from his chair while watching bake off the day before then you wouldn't object to that emergency run.

As you’ve discovered T&M can be a headache but real problem is he’s billed for materials that don’t exist. If you haven’t paid for the additional work wait until it’s payment day and get him to show you the materials in situ and go from there.

I avoid T&M like the plague and agree a set cost instead. Simpler all round and avoids any issues with the eating of bacon rolls on someone else’s time.

Semi ex plasterer here,folk like that get us all a bad reputation and they usually have a brass neck. Keep the discussion short but don’t expect to get anywhere with him, if he does pay it is a bonus but as stated; small contract tradesmen are mental busy just now. With the trades being so busy even a bad review might not give him a dent, however we do all recommend other trades so making sure the other subs know will make them wary of him at least.

I avoid T&M like the plague and agree a set cost instead.

Depends, I had an extension built at set cost, handed the drawings and everything over and encountered no end of bullshit.

Oh that was priced for basic materials, those are extra

That wasn't on the drawing

Well the plumber had to come out again because you showed him the wrong Toby valve so that's going to cost you (burst into a common main without checking the water was actually off first, Scottish water gave me their best guess and I told them as much).

100mm flexi tumble dryer duct for cooker hood extraction.

Etc etc.

Ended up with a shit job that I hate with every fibre of my being. I'd have done the first fit better myself, at least it would be wind tight.

So OP, no Scooby Doo reveal bullshit, get your invoice off him then tell him what's what and that you can either get a refund or you'll gladly pay the 40 quid to see him at small claims court. Then kick him off.

As for plumbing in water softeners or whatever, the commissioning instructions will be in the paperwork, I appreciate not everyone is practical but it's really not that hard, you don't even have to worry about gas.

Shame you paid him and you should have had him back to fix the leak.

I can see 2 options: try and get him back to fit the pipes he said he did or just forget it.

Definitely tell the other workers and leave shite reviews everywhere.

Actually I agree with squirrel king

Sounds like this isn’t T&M, but T&(M+20%) if he’s upping the cost of the materials by 20% (ignore whether he’s nicking the materials actually for now)

I think what others are trying to get at is the opposite.

It's normal to use your purchasing power to negotiate a discount from a supplier and bill a customer at approaching RRP, that's just good business sense whether you're a plumber or selling soft furnishings. Playing devil's advocate, that cost also covers the value-added from the trade's expertise in choosing the correct components. I imagine that rocking up to a job to be met with a customer insisting that you use the materials they've procured and then them handing a builder the equivalent of a bucket of Duplo isn't uncommon.

But.

This guy has been provided materials by the customer, claims to have 'lost' them, used them in the job anyway, then billed for a load of materials that were never used. That's not a cheeky little markup for the convenience, it's outright fraud.

While you're still on good terms, and he is hopefully unaware that you know what's he done, ask for a detailed invoice for your records with a breakdown of labour/materials. With that in hand, you can have a straightforward discussion about him ripping you off, and more chance of a small claims success when he fobs you off.

I wouldn't be letting him within a mile of the rest of the job, he's dishonest and incompetent.

Yep, it's fraud.
+1 for martinhutch above and print the photos you've taken to show the install of your speedfix parts then ask him to show you where his hep parts have been fitted.
After that give him the option of either a refund or small claims court - and refer to reputational damage through negative online reviews referring to fraud.

We had our home decorated about 6 months ago. Not bad, a few snags here and there. General standard was ok.

BUT

The decorator insisted on using a 'new technology' water-based paint for the woodwork. We tried arguing we wanted a nice shiny gloss finish, but he was adamant this stuff would be great. OK.

It was SHIT.

Unfortunately, we paid him before the job was completed. To make matters worse, he and his wife are lifelong close friends of my wife. And otherwise, a truly lovely bloke. Their kids are surrogate niece and nephew to us. Initially, he tried claiming that there was nothing much wrong with the paintwork. He then admitted it was substandard, and agreed to make good. My view is that he's had his opportunity to do it properly, and failed. It's not like it's one or two snags (the other snags weren't fixed in spite of him promising to do so before he finished), it's all the woodwork in the entire house. It's terrible. What a disaster.

So we're now in a position where what we actually want is a significant partial refund, and to have to get someone else to do it properly. He, obviously, wants to come in and do it again. But we're fearful we'll just end up with another substandard job. So there's the potential for a seriously damaged friendship at stake. It's a disaster. We're facing losing a significant chunk of money, in order to not let that happen. But that's still not right, and isn't really a proper resolution; we'll always be resentful unless we get at least some of our money back. It's significantly more than the OP is losing out on, too.

WWSTWD?

It was SHIT

How so? Flaky, poor coverage? Brush marks?

Don't know why he insisted. It's the customers choice to go water or oil-based once furnished with the facts regarding the pros and cons of each. Water-based won't go yellow for example. But is less hard-wearing and will show brush marks more.

He, obviously, wants to come in and do it again. But we’re fearful we’ll just end up with another substandard job.

I'm not seeing the problem here. Why not let him, and find out? It's not going to cost you anything and is unlikely to be worse.

we’ll always be resentful unless we get at least some of our money back.

He screwed up, he's offered to make it right. Do you actually want it making right or do you want the cash? If he doesn't fix it, someone else will have to and you're starting again.

I only use people who I have some collateral with, fed up of being binned off by people who dont really want to do the work. Probably overpay but at least it's done properly.

Next refurb I m getting a tradey to supervise, he knows all the shortcuts and has the balls to stop a bad tradey half way and get another in.

I 've supervised past jobs and even using good people, they really try and get the job done asap so they can move on.

Sadly with property boom all trades have been flat out so could get away with bad practices.

Thanks for all the views. I had to get the leak fixed last night as I had the worktops being fitted this morning, so no time to get him back in. Plus I’m not sure I would have been civil on the phone.

I will definitely be speaking to the builder who recommended him, as for getting a refund or trying to pursue him for a refund I’m not sure I have the fight, just too many things to get sorted at the moment, and after 4 months I just want the job done, not chasing around people. I’m getting a bit sick of jobs getting half done and then the trade bugger off for a week to do something else.

I am almost at the stage where I’m comfortable taking over, so I think other than the removal of the gas cooker and capping I will do the rest of the plumbing myself. I wanted him to try and trace some rust in the hot water but to be honest I’ll be better to just do it myself.

Anyone have any useful links for first fixing a sink, washing machine , tumble dryer and water softener? Feeds I’m fine with, I’m wondering about the best waste connections. All the kit is next to each other and about half a meter from the old dishwashers drain. I’ll be off to Screwfix Sunday morning and it’ll be Sunday nights job. I’ll clawback the lost budget that way.

How so? Flaky, poor coverage? Brush marks?

We were promised a near-gloss finish. The thing with proper oil based gloss paint, is that it takes a long time to dry, so you get that 'annealing' which leaves that lovely smooth shiny glossy finish. Water-based paint dries too quickly so you don't get such a shine. Ok, but the actual standard of painting was terrible too. Streaky, uneven finish, brush mark, runs, the lot. Dreadful. One of the worst paint jobs I've ever seen, and definitely the very worst from a professional. I've rarely seen a complete beginner do worse, actually.

Don’t know why he insisted. It’s the customers choice to go water or oil-based once furnished with the facts regarding the pros and cons of each. Water-based won’t go yellow for example. But is less hard-wearing and will show brush marks more.

Had it been done well, we could have accepted the slightly less than glossy finish you will inevitably get with water based paint. His instance was based on 'health reasons'. Ok, fair enough. This we now know wasn't really the case; he just wanted the easiest job possible.

I’m not seeing the problem here. Why not let him, and find out? It’s not going to cost you anything and is unlikely to be worse.

If he did such a poor job in the beginning, we have no confidence in him improving much on that. Why let him **** it up twice?

He screwed up, he’s offered to make it right. Do you actually want it making right or do you want the cash? If he doesn’t fix it, someone else will have to and you’re starting again.

I don't really see why, in a professional context, we need to give him a second chance. As I said, it's not like it's a couple of small snags, it's the whole ****ing job.

Had it been done well, we could have accepted the slightly less than glossy finish you will inevitably get with water based paint. His instance was based on ‘health reasons’. Ok, fair enough. This we now know wasn’t really the case; he just wanted the easiest job possible.

I doubt it. Water-based is a pain in the arse cos it takes more coats and doesn't lie flat. If he said 'health reasons'? maybe he was thinking of you having to live with the fumes for a week. Something doesn't add up here. I think you need to let the guy put things right or eat the cost of getting someone else in to redo it. If you don't mind losing him as a friend and have time to burn then you could try chasing him for a partial refund, but that does look like you're just trying to get money off.

He screwed up, he’s offered to make it right. Do you actually want it making right or do you want the cash? If he doesn’t fix it, someone else will have to and you’re starting again.

He shouldn't' be having to offer to make it right. this is the point. He's an experienced professional. Turns out that he's only used this water based crap once before, so we're sort of guinea pigs. We wanted top quality work, and believe me, we've paid top dollar even for London. So for him to walk away thinking it was anywhere near acceptable, is really poor on his part. We shouldn't be having to try and negotiate anything.

If you don’t mind losing him as a friend and have time to burn then you could try chasing him for a partial refund, but that does look like you’re just trying to get money off.

The friendship is more important. But we do need to have it out properly. We can't leave it as it is. He knows he's ****ed up, so the onus is on him to sort it. He hasn't even offered any dates to come and sort it. So we're going to get someone else in anyway. I'm forbidden from saying anything, as I'm not as diplomatic as my wife. I did have a massive go at him when I discovered he was sanding paintwork down with a power sander without any dust collection. What a mess. Dust was blowing under doors and through keyholes. This is basic stuff! I think we're going to have to get a 'neutral' mutual friend to have a quiet word. Best resolution is an apology and significant refund. Worst thing for him, would be losing our friendship. So it's down to him to fix it really.

Why let him * it up twice?

What do you have to lose?

I don’t really see why, in a professional context, we need to give him a second chance. As I said, it’s not like it’s a couple of small snags, it’s the whole * job.

If you're playing that card then "in a professional context" you would be legally obliged to give him the opportunity to repair the unsatisfactory service before you were entitled to seek financial compensation.

With a "lifelong close friend" though, this is into the realms of AITA fodder on Reddit.

So for him to walk away thinking it was anywhere near acceptable, is really poor on his part. We shouldn’t be having to try and negotiate anything.

Unless you're explaining your situation badly, he hasn't, and you aren't. He's offered to sort it out and your response to this supposedly precious family friend is "money plz kkthxbi".

No?

What do you have to lose?

Having to get someone else in to do it yet again afterwards?

If you’re playing that card then “in a professional context” you would be legally obliged to give him the opportunity to repair the unsatisfactory service before you were entitled to seek financial compensation.

Nope. You can demand a refund if the work is unsatisfactory. CRA 2015. He assured us everything would be satisfactory by the time he finished. As he has subsequently admitted it's not, we are entitled to ask for a refund.

With a “lifelong close friend” though, this is into the realms of AITA fodder on Reddit.

What's that supposed to mean?

No?

No.

Dust was blowing under doors and through keyholes. This is basic stuff!

Is it? Did you specify and agree to these CSI-level standards? Do you live in The National Archives? I'd say keeping the door closed is 'basic stuff'. Taping up keyholes is unusual but easily accommodated if agreed upon first. You sound like a nightmare tbh 🙂

On the flip side he's gambled on the water-based stuff having little experience with it. It's not turned out well so now he needs to put it right. Such is life. But you won't let him will you?

Is it?

Yes. Especially if you've cited 'health reasons' for not wanting to use oil-based paint. I do a fair bit of woodworking, repairs etc, and use all sorts of power tools. You don't use a power sander without some sort of dust reduction/extraction. Especially not in a furnished home.

I’d say keeping the door closed is ‘basic stuff’

I'd say reading something properly is 'basic stuff': 😉

Dust was blowing under doors

Taping up keyholes is unusual but easily accommodated if agreed upon first

He'd assured me he would be using a dust extractor/vacuum. I had to get our Henry out as he'd not brought anything himself.

You sound like a nightmare tbh 🙂

We've actually been more than fair and patient with him. I am a nightmare though; I expect the best standards. Especially if I'm paying top dollar. Why wouldn't you?

On the flip side he’s gambled on the water-based stuff having little experience with it. It’s not turned out well so now he needs to put it right.

We're not paying for him to experiment; we stated what we wanted, were specific and clear. It's down to him to get experience elsewhere; perhaps in his own home. Whatever.

But you won’t let him will you?

He's had ample time to come and sort it. It's been 6 months. He's failed to do so, and hasn't mentioned it since. It really is down to him to contact us, arrange times to come and do the work, etc.

Yeah, fair enough. Only pulling your leg mate. I'm sure you're not a nightmare. Just trying to see it from the other guy's position. 'Decent' water based trim paint is a relatively new development so even time served craftsmen are learning the ropes with it. I suppose he should be testing it at home first or something, but in the real world we all take these gambles.

I’m sure you’re not a nightmare

Oh I am. But I generally get good results. I'm most demanding of myself; I will always strive to do my very best with most things. Nobody's perfect. But I think if someone has promised to deliver a 'top dollar' job, then that's what you should get, 1st time. This guy is very experienced, has worked in the job for decades now. Which makes it all the more surprising (and embarrassing for him) that this job as substandard.

in the real world we all take these gambles

If I want you to gamble with my money, I'll give you a tenner to go down the bookies and put it on Red Rum to win in the 3.15 at Ascot*. If I want you to paint my house to a good standard, I want you to do just that. Leave your gambling form someone/somewhere else.

*I know nothing about horse racing. Ask me anything; I won't know it.

Turns out that he’s only used this water based crap once before, so we’re sort of guinea pigs. We wanted top quality work, and believe me, we’ve paid top dollar even for London.

He’s had ample time to come and sort it. It’s been 6 months. He’s failed to do so, and hasn’t mentioned it since. It really is down to him to contact us, arrange times to come and do the work, etc.

Can't be that much of a friend. Charges full market rate and goes missing after ****ing up job. Sounds like friends is past tense anyway.

Can’t be that much of a friend. Charges full market rate and goes missing after **** up job. Sounds like friends is past tense anyway.

He’s ****ed up. I’ve no idea why. It’s clearly very embarrassing for him. As for ‘full market rate’; I would never exploit a friendship to get a discount. Cos that’s shitty and disrespectful imo. If I’m asking someone to do some work for me, I’m paying full whack, end of. I’m not a cheapskate. I accept that other people have different morals.

Just ask him back to do it with oil based gloss. If he can't then DIY.

It's very tricky having friends doing work for you- agreed. I won't even recommend tradesman to friends just in case.

This is a good lesson in not employing friends.

Sounds like a crap situation

Having to get someone else in to do it yet again afterwards?

You're going to have to do that anyway if he doesn't fix it. 🤷‍♂️

Nope. You can demand a refund if the work is unsatisfactory. CRA 2015.

No you can't. You can demand a refund if initial remediation is unsuccessful or attempting to remediate wouldn't be practical.

He’s had ample time to come and sort it. It’s been 6 months. He’s failed to do so, and hasn’t mentioned it since. It really is down to him to contact us, arrange times to come and do the work, etc.

This is new information. If you've been trying to get him to fix it for months then yes, you're correct, that would be in breach of CRA because you're being excessively inconvenienced and so you can ask for money back. Though really, if you've ignored it for six months because you can't be arsed chasing him them then that's not really his fault is it.

You have a very odd grasp of what lifelong friends look like.

What’s that supposed to mean?

That Google's down?

This guy is very experienced, has worked in the job for decades now.

He, obviously, wants to come in and do it again. But we’re fearful we’ll just end up with another substandard job.

Does not compute.

This tale is getting more bizarre by the minute.

You don’t use a power sander without some sort of dust reduction/extraction.

I've just wandered round the back. kitchen fitters have been sanding worktops with zero extraction. it looks like it's bloody snowed in there.

to be fair the worktops looks good. just sooooo much dust.

Did they seal under the doors and tape over the keyhole?

I’ve just wandered round the back. kitchen fitters have been sanding worktops with zero extraction. it looks like it’s bloody snowed in there.

I find it bizarre that people work this way.
The more crap you can extract at source the better. Work smarter , not harder.

Or just leave the shit for someone else to clean up

Less clean up and less crap breathed in.

I'm still sweeping

Wouldn't get away with that on a managed site. I sell lots of vacuum cleaners within a pto. So when you switch your sander on, the hoover starts and visa versa.
Anything else is just making more work and a potential hazard to health.
1st fix plumbing. I not a trained plumber so take this amy way.
You need hot and cold feeds up on wall under sink with iso valves on them pointed out. You need a waste pipe low enougj to accommodate a trap 40mm next to the hot and cold feeds. Poking out 6in
Watet softener, dunno judt cold Water feed imagime.
Ditto dishwasher. Cold water to iso up adjacent to the hole in the setvice void of the next cabinet. Waste for dw is normally run along to the trap or into the waste below the sink so a simgle 44mm hole goes out the build.
Then buy a twim appliance trap.
Do not run 40mm waste behind the integrated dw. By the time you space it off the wall there's usually not enough room. Some guys use 2 x washing machine drain hose to get to the appliance trap.
Feel free to ignore, amend or delete as applicable, ad i say im. No plumber.

I find it bizarre that people work this way.
The more crap you can extract at source the better. Work smarter , not harder.

Or just leave the shit for someone else to clean up

You got there in the end...

I’m still sweeping

👌

No you can’t. You can

Lol! You're literally arguing with yourself. 🤣 Still; at least you've now become more knowledgeable about the CRA 2015 as a result of all this, so let's take that as a win.

It’s very tricky having friends doing work for you- agreed

This is a good lesson in not employing friends.

True. Although tbh this has never been a problem before; our plumber/heating engineer is a good friend, and he's never let us down, and always been excellent. We're happy to recommend him to others, and he now does work for our neighbours who are also very happy with his work. Another friend previously did our decorating and some external works, and he was great. I've worked for friends/friends' employers/companies many times, and people have been more than happy with what I've done. If you go in with a professional attitude from the beginning, then it's can be absolutely fine. In this case though, it's just unfortunate that it's not worked out well. At the end of the day though, it really is a first world middle class problem, and ultimately not that big a deal. This thread's given me the chance to get a bit more perspective on things, so I'm sure the issue can be resolved reasonably well. We'll be laughing about it in years to come. Life's too short.

As for dust and mess; always strive to keep this to a minimum. "Less clean up and less crap breathed in." 100%. I've got a Bosch power sander that when connected to a vacuum, leaves an astonishingly small amount of dust. Pro level kit is now so good. The mark of a good worker is someone who cleans up after themselves.

So. Do you need some bombers or did he admit to the fraud and repay some of the money?
We need answers goddammit

As for dust and mess; always strive to keep this to a minimum. “Less clean up and less crap breathed in.” 100%. I’ve got a Bosch power sander that when connected to a vacuum, leaves an astonishingly small amount of dust. Pro level kit is now so good. The mark of a good worker is someone who cleans up after themselves.

I would use a power sander indoors if only no other choice, much prefer hand-sanding. But had to use my Milwaukee sander attached to the end of a Henry recently. I may as well have not bothered. dust everywhere. What did I do wrong?

he isn't onsite. I wanted to talk to the main builder. he agreed with me that the plumber had used my materials. he had suggested he might have forgotten... Still not sure whether to kick off. trying to get anyone on site to finish things is becoming a nightmare. I fitted the sink waste and boiling tap myself yesterday and pla to do the rest of the plumbing myself. it's not hard. the fact I have to wait weeks for people at a time means even if it takes me a few hours longer the project is moving forward. I've pulled a couple of additional jobs from the main builder stating its budget concerns due to the extra plumbing costs. which is partly is, but it's also I want them to finish some jobs before we start more. hopefully him loosing some work might mean he has a word.

re dust I actually have a festool sander and extractor, bought to sand back lead paint and there is no dust.

in the scheme of things it wasn't overly expensive either.