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So I`m really desperate to get out of "the Machine" a have my own business and the thing I'm most passionate about is cooking and dealing with people.
I`ve wanted to have my own cafe for a long time and see other doing it and cant imagine its unachievable and must be hugely satisfying .
Has anyone got their own business and could offer tips and advice?
Someone on here opened one in Cholsey, great location and seemed to be doing well.
Remember Saturday & Sunday? Take a good look at them and kiss them goodbye.
And say hello to Tuesday & Wednesday when the trails/banks/shops/town centres/tourist attractions and pretty much everything else will be open and less busy.
good luck-- seems a nice idea , but you need to be able to have time off every week, delegate ? what sort of food you doing, where , clientele ?-but if you get it right its great, but otherwise it'll be astruggle, a bore and end up hating it....
I have a similar "dream" to open a cafe for the same reasons. My sister and husband did it and she lost a lot of her life to it when her kids were young, although a sour marriage and idiot husband didn't help at all.
The hardest bit by far was finding staff who she could trust (to work reliably and not run of with afore mentioned husband) but because she couldn't, she ended up working all days and hours. Get that bit right and you can concentrate on the stuff you want/need to... But there's no way formula for it, just who walks through the door with their CV.
Have you worked in one before? At the very least, a few months of weekend work in one will give you an idea of how to run your own (or completely put you off), and give a few more quid towards your startup costs.
First thing to do is work out whether there is a gap in the market.
Do market research. Find out what potential customers will go for what they want and what they'll pay for (and how much). Proper market research and not just asking mates whether it's a good idea or not.
Remember that there is probably a good reason that a cafe isn't in existance in the location you're thinking of. Is that because there's no custom or because no one has considered it before?
I think if you are going to add another cafe to an already congested town centre, which seem to be overloaded around the Surrey towns these days, then you will struggle.
If you can find a unique spot in a nice area or perhaps find a vehicle like this below, then you can do as well as this person seems to be doing.
[url=
Got a friend who did just this, he's doing well but it was a struggle for the first 6 months. We've spoken about it a lot as it's something I've debated doing too, his thoughts are:
Location - Is key, but the good spots are expensive. He paid a good deal more for a spot on a busy high street with a lot of passing trade when he could have saved a shed load by taking a spot off that street.
Staff - Are a pain until you get the right ones. He got very friendly with a tame HR professional in the first few months as he tried to find the right people and not have his pants pulled down, he got there but it was not easy.
Time - Will disappear, certainly for the first 6 months, it's cheaper to work yourself than pay someone but then you'll never have worked more hours in your life.
Ambition - Is it a business, a hobby or something else. He started it as he (and more so, his wife) love cooking and loved hospitality. Oddly, as he has got more sorted both of them spend less and less time hand on, she no longer cooks, he no longer serves. So, despite the fact they have their time back, he's now a business owner not a guy who runs a cafe, in fact he's debating opening another one so he can get hands on again.
Money - Will not be made for 6 months. He's making a reasonable amount from it now but the opening costs and general things that he didn't think of took up all the profit to begin with, his saving were decimated though he knew this would be the case.
Research - Make sure you offer something other people don't. Why would someone come to you instead of Costa/Starbucks/Nero/etc? He offers better food and better coffee but it costs a touch more, the town he's in can deal with that, plenty of others places can't.
Ironically I have a great idea and location for a café / bike workshop, but have no wish to work in one (again). 🙂
Not sure where you're based Mooly...
So I`m based in Exeter - It's a Growing city with people with plenty of disposable income. Also loads of organic veg and meat suppliers around so will be using great ingredients
Hoping to sell premium coffees and tea, Wholesome simple foods. Foods that would change daily and be healthy and nutritious- Menus such as:
Coconut Dahl - & Masala potatoes
Chunky veg Fritata
Butternut squash soup
Lamb Tagine ------------------------- And so on
In terms of experience after graduating from uni I worked as an assistant manager in a cafe/restaurant in Knightsbridge - Loved it but was too young and wanted weekends free.
Hoping to position myself near Exeter college / Train station so main trade comes during the week from students and commuters.
So it seems that it takes a long time before turning a profit which sounds like a ball-ache.
Go for it if you have some spare cash.
Been to Exeter to visit my friends long time ago, nice place but a bit quiet?
Yes, the farming community is just a short drive up the hill and down ...
If the food is good and reasonable people will come. Negotiate with the local council for a start-up free rate.
Well, put it this way so long as the council etc does not increase your rent to silly rent like those in Hong Kong you should be fine if you get enough customers.
I was watching documentary about eatery in HK, serving nice proper street food but only 28 left in entire HK, and those people got silly rental increase now and then. 30-40% increase ... feel sad for them.
I would say that you need to be careful with operating a 'premium' establishment. Just cos there are plenty of folk with disposable incomes does not necessarily mean that they are happy paying a premium.
Serve people what they want not what you think is great. You will sell 100 bacon sandwiches for every 1 lamb tagine!
Bacon sandwiches will be on the menu too. Just in Bagels with onion, Grilled cheese and Tabasco sauce !!!!! UMMMMM!!! - The BiG ADAM
I would say that you need to be careful with operating a 'premium' establishment. Just cos there are plenty of folk with disposable incomes does not necessarily mean that they are happy paying a premium.
Look at Poundland. 🙁
Serve people what they want not what you think is great. You will sell 100 bacon sandwiches for every 1 lamb tagine!
Unless there's already 100 places doing bacon sarnies...
Good luck. There's no shortage of new cafes that come and go in Exeter.
Don't be scared of operating a premium niche food outlet. If the location (by this i mean what end of the street you are on let alone town/city) is right then you can tap into the growing market share of quality quick service eating establishments.
Don't be tempted to buy cheap brandless catering equipment off the internet or get involved in lease hire schemes for coffee machines etc. They will burn you badly later on. I would seriously look at getting help from someone in the industry to help you with this as I have seen so many places loose thousands through bad buying.
Menu development is key too making good money! So many inexperienced establishments will develop dishes with ingredients that have no crossover and also no idea how to control wastage. This can kill your cash flow especially as you are establishing yourself.
Finally have a good look through this blog http://greatcafes.blogspot.co.uk/ . The guy is a food consultant to some of the big players in the industry but does this as a sideline to highlight the good and the bad.
I'd speak to those that have set up already,
have a look on this,
most owners are normally fairly happy to talk about it if they feel it wont impact them. number 10 is stones throw from me.
Think who you want to appeal to, then think who you NEED to appeak to and find some middle ground.
take advantage of the free business advice run by local councils. this is the link to Exeters
[url= http://www.exeter.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=8345 ]Exeter Business Support[/url]
I do a similar thing in the northwest and the organisations tend to use advisors who have "been there and done that" and will have loads of practical advise.
they'll also give a critical eye to your business plan to make sure your plans are viable.
Oh, and get professional advise on the lease or you will get royally *****ed
Not wishing to put you off in the slightest but your business model seems a little skewed. Your main trade during the week will be commuters and students but you're going to be charging premium prices I assume - locally sourced organic products and an ever changing menu isn't going to be cheap. When I was a student I certainly wasn't splashing funds on a premium priced lunch so are you sure you've checked the market properly,
Start up funds are high, you'll need fit out costs and pay for a lease too. If you have funds available that's fine but a bank may not be willing to lend.
Good luck though and I hope it goes well for you.
[i]Bacon sandwiches will be on the menu too. Just in Bagels with onion, Grilled cheese and Tabasco sauce !!!!! UMMMMM!!! - The BiG ADAM [/i]
Will you do just normal nice bacon sandwiches too?
Bacon sandwiches will be on the menu too. Just in Bagels with onion, Grilled cheese and Tabasco sauce !!!!! UMMMMM!!! - The BiG ADAM
Sounds great but can I just have a bacon butty please? Good bacon mind, on good bread but none of that onion and Tabasco muck.
An commuters want reasonably coffee quickly, they may also have a quick sarny but it will need to be quick as they have a train to catch or an office to get to. Most of the commuters I know, myself included, will sacrifice a bit of quality to get it done quickly.
Get the yummy mummies in - that's where you'll make decent money during the week.
If you don't have kids yourself, talk to people who do (actually do that anyway as you may not be the norm) and find out what things would likely get them to try out your place. Getting people through the door to start is the really difficult bit (and then keeping them but first steps...)
Opening an Cafe - How to?
Whatever you do don't make basic grammatical errors like the one in your title on your menus, signage or the chalk board outside your shop.
Quick bacon sarnies will be available too, along with filter coffee for those on those go.
There is already a cafe and bakery (Mainly Cakes for £2.80 +)in this location so there is definitely a market here. This is partly why I think offering something different would be a good idea.
If you are going to open up on or around Queen St in Exeter and appeal to the college crowd then make sure you can get your pricing right to entice them in when they only have to walk a little further to get to Macdonalds which now does very cheap coffee etc. I used to work in the internet café in the semi circle by Central station, it is a long time ago but their is plenty of foot fall along that road. Their does also seem to be a reasonable turn over of café / food outlets. Even Boston Tea party used to struggle with large groups of college students taking advantage of the comfy sofas while only buying a very small amount of food / drink. You obviously know your onions so I hope you do try it and make a go of it, I will be sure to come and visit from the food you have posted above which sounds just my kind of food. I would imagine that the rent on Queen street is very high but that is just a gut instinct.
(Big surfer)
It would be a Unit in the semi circle on Queens street to maximise the student market. The students are all totally keen to buy Cakes for £2.80 a pop so must definitely be into decent wholesome grub at lunch if it fits in with their lifestyle and want to be seen in a funky cafe where the cool kids hang out.
What happened to the Internet cafe - I'm guessing it was because it was an internet cafe and they didn't focus on the cafe side just the internet?
If you can find somewhere near a posh nursery/primary school you'll get good trade providing everything's up to scratch.
Ive noticed a few opening here where i live the above site being a case in point, the other just on the edge of fairly upmarket suburban part of the city and it does great trade too even with a few established cafes in close proximity. People take their coffee very seriously these days, stick a dude (sorry highly trained Barista) in a leather apron with a hipster beard and they'll be tripping over themselves.
It would be a Unit in the semi circle on Queens street to maximise the student market. The students are all totally keen to buy Cakes for £2.80 a pop so must definitely be into decent wholesome grub at lunch if it fits in with their lifestyle and want to be seen in a funky cafe where the cool kids hang out.
Do you mean the crescent with the station in? Practically next door to that bakery? If I'm in Exeter I'd normally go to Boston TP, then the bakery if I didn't like the look of the cakes in BTP. Cathedral rectory is also good..
From what you've said so far it sounds like there is a bit of conflict between wanting to provide things that sound like meals (i.e. you need to sit down and use cutlery to eat them) and things that sound like commuter snacks on the go. Can you realistically do both or would it better to focus on one aspect?
Kerbdude.
My lodger is a Dude (Highly trained Barrister) 3rd best in the south west (Apparently) Actually) Just finished his a levels and desperately want me to follow my dream. (So he can have a full time job obviously).
[i]fionap[/i]
A bit of both in terms of sit down and on the go. Was considering the Whole Tiffin Tin as an option for commuters and students that want to tack food out on the hoof.
All totally pie in the sky at the moment. ( Obviously)
If you can find somewhere near a posh nursery/primary school you'll get good trade providing everything's up to scratch.
I was speaking to somebody who owns a cafe recently and he says otherwise, he said the mums who come in are the ones with small kids after dropping the older ones at school.
He said they have all the time in the world so nurse a coffee and maybe a piece of cake but bring all the kids food and drink, let them destroy the place, leave said food and drink everywhere and then leave about 4 hours later.
He said he was trying to find a nice way of letting them go elsewhere and focusing on the commuter, lunch market and even mid morning coffee or meeting spot for local offices.
Yes the internet café was mainly the internet / computer services for foreign students / les technically savy people or those that needed fast speeds for the day. The café part was only really to offer those sat at a pc for an hour some light refreshment. We did open at 8am and got a few regular people pop in for a takeaway coffee on their way past. We never pushed this side of business as we weren't really geared up to being able to cope with the rush and speed needed to make money. Everybody involved was young and we just did what we wanted to do which didn't really include working hard before 10:30. It made good reliable money though.
[i]My lodger is a Dude (Highly trained Barrister) 3rd best in the south west (Apparently) Actually) Just finished his a levels and desperately want me to follow my dream. (So he can have a full time job obviously). [/i]
Just done his a levels and he's already doing courtroom battles - snap him up 🙂
[i]Gary_M[/i] LOL
Dont forget the area will be largely devoid of students from May - Sept. I'm in Bristol slap bang in the middle of the campus and can notice how quiet it is now the students have left.
Having said that, I did ask once, in one of the many local coffee shops, whether they notice a huge difference when the student population dies down, but apparently they still get a decent stream from the local offices and shop workers. So I guess location is key.
FWIW Pret and Boston Tea party always seem very busy, and the local pasty/baguette place which is considerably cheaper and has no indoor seating is usually queuing out of the door too.
You need to base your menu around your storage capacity, both refrigerated & dry.
Average turnover (exc VAT) to stock spend needs to be a minimum of 3:1
Make your own cakes if possible, if you have room, sell scoop ice cream, it's quick and around 4:1.
You can pick up an ex Costa 3 group espresso machine for around £1000, good kit with a huge boiler so massive turnover. Most stock you buy is VAT free, when you sell it will usually be subject to VAT.
No of covers is critical, both of mine have around 90 or so. I looked at buying one recently with around 20 covers, very well run, fantastic cakes, it only just breaks even after paying 2 staff.
Seasonal is always a winner no? Cash cow while the students are there and then tick over and product develop when they're are on breaks .
I'm no business person but, yeah I guess so. That does rely on getting the students in in the first place though.
Not sure what they're like in Exeter, but they seem fairly well 'monied' in Bristol!
Exeter local and business owner here (a pub nearby...).
I'd be very wary of basing your business around 16-18 y.o. college students-they have virtually no disposable income, so you'd be competing on price against co-op and tesco metro for their trade, and they are only there 6 months or so of the year.
Up against BTP and the bakery you definitely need a niche that they don't have.
-I'd suggest trying to get as much outdoor seating as humanly possible because that's a weak point for both of them.
-They don't get any evening trade/sell any significant amount of booze (bakery doesn't have a license too either) so I'd suggest taking a leaf out of Artigiano on the high st and positioning yourself that way. Hot drink focused during the day, booze focused during the night, and make your interior refurb suitable for both types of customer (I don't wan't to drink wine in greasy spoon style cafe...).
Just my t'pence worth.... good luck!
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Happy to help you out!
Alex
Chef Patron
Some brilliant advice advice, I've always fancied owning a café, not really hands on but as an investment.
My favourite cafes just do the simple things very well, well located, clean, fresh ingredients, well priced - not the cheapest but I love food so willing to pay for better quality.
Good advice above re covers, spot on, I nearly bought a b&b ages ago but went through the economics of various sizes (3, 4, 5, 6 bed etc) & the 3 & 4 bedders just did not make any money. They cover your costs, the 5th bedroom (if full) tsrtas paying you a decent wage.
Plenty of good advice on here, I'd take up any offers of help.
As others have said, some excellent comments and advice here. The most important thing about running a business (I do)...is making a profit! Not doing something you've always wanted to do, something that is 'close to your heart', cos frankly that is all bollocks! To be blunt!
Its all about making enough money to give you the lifestyle you are trying to achieve. Very difficult as I mentioned on page one, as most people can cook a bacon roll and make coffee. Your menu certainly doesn't interest me and no others have made any positive comments either, so perhaps we're all saving you a potential disaster!
(just trying to help btw :-))
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Fair point
If its going to be cycling based then organise rides from the door if possible, bike beans in Ashtead does this and then you get people returning to the cafe hungry and thirsty. I'll be going out with them later today and spending about a tenner on a bowl of pasta and a drink.
[i]If its going to be cycling based then organise rides from the door if possible, bike beans in Ashtead does this and then you get people returning to the cafe hungry and thirsty. I'll be going out with them later today and spending about a tenner on a bowl of pasta and a drink.[/i]
or...going back to page one, a mobile operation that gives you the freedom and ability to go where the business is (cycle routes for example) and sell interesting pasta type food with a tweeeest!
You could have a few venues depending on days of the week and seasons with different offerings etc. You'll avoid rent and rates and signing a lease for a long period etc.
thepublican - Member
I'd be very wary of basing your business around 16-18 y.o. college students-they have virtually no disposable income, ...
Good point ^^^
I noticed this in the GeordieLand where students (local) always go for the cheapest of the cheap at some newly established "eat & go" whatever name they are fast food. For £2.50 to £3.00 they get a medium baguette with some processed meat filling and a can of pop. The queue is usually 100 hundred people long.
Students that spend money can be a bonus coz those are the rich ones.
I don't go in there coz I don't eat sandwish ... 😮