[Closed] Oops! Someone best phone social services....

I'm going to state that I think Binners let the child eat much needed [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime ]pink slime[/url]

They'd still grow taller with nice tasty organic meat or a vegetarian diet.

In seriousness, reading a bit further on Pubmed would suggest that the issue wasn't veganism per sé but diet generally. For instance, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6846221

The analysis of food records available provided evidence that energy intakes of the vegetarians were below recommended levels, whereas protein intakes did not appear to be limiting.

Is parenting about preparing a young person for the rest of their life? I like ninfan's approach of communication, love, understanding and support best. There's a lot of precious parenting examples here, which I find a little sombre. For sure, establish moral guidelines with our kids, but to stamp my own, with such dogmatism... Will surely lead to rebellion at some stage. Kids love boundaries, even as adults we like to know where we stand in certain situations, but to have a child who doesn't push the boundaries from time to time as they grow and develop, would be very concerning.

And whilst I can kinda see the comparison between meat and drugs, from a dogmatic moral high ground point of view. It's not really the same is it?

The beauty of us is, is that we can all adopt our own approaches and do the best we can and I dare say, that [i][b]if[/b][/i] the issue of diet was that important to the parents of the 10year old girl in the OP, they would have said something to start with.

By all means let us prepare the next generation to be as open minded, interdependent and accepting as we all are... 😉 😉

If I let my kids make up their minds as often as some seem to be suggesting, I'm pretty sure the older two would be dead and the baby would be rolling in a pile of his own dirt and probably eating it.

I get that that slightly misses the point but we make decisions for our kids all the time some obviously beneficial some less obviously and some debatable.

One assumes that when looking after somebody else's child, binbins would have had various methods of contacting parents. It's simple really, a quick call or text to ask (if binners wasn't sure) if it's ok would have sufficed. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, maybe we'll find out in the drip feed of retrospective facts with which he's enlightening us. 🙂 I know omnis that would be as upset if their child was taken to McDonalds as veggies I know. And with good reason as far as they're concerned (even if I feel some of the reasons are a bit handwringing myself, but hey, it's none of my business). You decide every day what your child is going to grow up eating, and unless by what you're not feeding him or her, he or she is suffering from malnutrition, it's nobody's business. Trying to equate a child's desire to eat at McDonalds with some kind of desire to eat meat is not quite bollocks, but it's getting there.

The diets and growth of children reared on vegetarian diets are reviewed. Excessive bulk combined with low energy density can be a problem for children aged < or = 5 y and can lead to imparied growth. Diets that have a high content of phytate and other modifiers of mineral absorption are associated with an increased prevalence of rickets and iron-deficiency anemia. Vitamin B-12 deficiency is a real hazard in unsupplemented or unfortified vegan and vegetarian diets. It is suggested that vegans and vegetarians should use oils with a low ratio of linoleic to linolenic acid in view of the recently recognized role of docosahexaenoic acid in visual functioning. If known pitfalls are avoided, the growth and development of children reared on both vegan and vegetarian diets appears normal.

Shame, can't find many...if any decent papers from this millennia....yet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8172120

Heheh.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528709/

As a vegetarian diet becomes more restrictive, the energy intake requirements become more difficult to attain. The vegetarian diet is a bulky one that can restrict energy intake in children. Furthermore, energy intake in infants receiving macrobiotic diets compared with vegetarian diets is considerably lower than the recommended requirements (9). A major potential concern relates to the expanding knowledge of the critical window of early environmental influences on subsequent child development and health (10). Because the energy density of macrobiotic diets is lowest in infants during the weaning period of 10 to 12 months of age, this diet could adversely affect their future growth and development (11).

The growth of a child is a sensitive indicator of the potential negative effects of vegetarian, vegan and macrobiotic diets. Children younger than two years of age who were fed vegetarian or vegan diets exhibited significant lower mean weight and length velocities (12) and were overall lighter in weight and smaller in stature than reference populations (13). The Farm Study (14) analyzed 404 children from a vegetarian community in which parents were well educated about the diet and children were supplemented with the appropriate minerals and vitamins. While these vegetarian children were within the 25th and 75th percentiles for United States growth standards, height for age and weight for age were below the median when compared with reference populations for most ages. Values were statistically significant for children younger than five years of age. Thus, with the appropriate supplementation and parent education, children on vegetarian or vegan diets can attain adequate growth, [b] but it may be somewhat less than reference populations.[/b]

Just my sixpenceworth..
My sister and her family are pretty strict about using ethically sourced and local organic produce, additive free and all that jazz, and they don't eat dairy or meat for personal health reasons..

In the past when her kids aged 4 and 8, have been to parties or whatever and scoffed a couple of sausage rolls and handfuls of crisps they have been pretty unwell for a coupla days as a result..
Their sweet little bods just aren't used to the toxins and all that..

I say in the past cos her kids would be repulsed by crap food these days..
If you had pulled that stunt on her, I have no doubt that she would have been straight round your house in a maelstrom of furious veggie trumps and wailing to uncerimoniously shove an artichoke up your nose

sausage rolls and handfuls of crisps they have been pretty unwell for a coupla days as a result..

My house diagnosis....

Psychogenic illness, that was probably projected onto them by their parents.

yeah

Thus, with the appropriate supplementation and parent education, children on vegetarian or vegan diets can attain adequate growth,

All that needs saying really.

I wonder what a kid who grows up eating mostly McDonald's would turn out like? Binners? Oh holy jaysus... 🙂

My (vegan) kid is in the 97th percentile for height, though not sure why the health issue is relevant to the OP 😕

Is there any correation between those who think it's ok to treat children with junk food, and those who are stereotypical STW biffers on the idave diet?

the parents might not actually be that bothered.
But STWers ARE

FFS it was a burger not hard drugs

Why are you all struggling to see that it is the principle not substance? Imagine a parent who thought it ok for a 10 year old to get pissed gets your kid pissed - this is the same as meat eater deciding that what they do is ok [eat meat] to do to your kids despite the fact they know you object- lets assum ethe kid wants to get pissed as well. This is not hard to understand and were it a parent getting your kid pissed you would be pissed off and not spouting what you are now.

are chips vegan?

Use alcohol as it would be legal to ignore the parents and get the child pissed

Legal reference please.

his is the same as meat eater deciding that what they do is ok [eat meat] to do to your kids despite the fact they know you object-

By law the child has the right to decide, maybe they should make choices on fairly safe matters (as in not legislated issues such as sex, drugs and Hora) so as to equip themselves for adulthood.

If we want to use a slippery slope argument such as yours, should the state be allowed to tell you....as a parent....not to chop your Childs foreskin off? I mean..... after all.....your choice as a parent should be respected and all.....hey?

How about something I am dealing with atm. Not illegal and pretty harmless

My son wants to go to town with his mates. He is getting to the point where he is probably old enough but his mum/we are struggling with it. He goes around to one of his older mates houses to stay for the day. The parent looking after them knows I don't allow him up town but the parent allows him to go because he disagrees with my opinions.

Not illegal.

I would go ballistic if I found out.

Ok... try again.... FFS ITS A BURGER, not hard drugs, alcohol, sex, violence any other subject you wish to invoke... A BURGER!!!!

And my example is a simple trip up town with mates. Not illegal but going against parents wishes. At what point does the scales tip between respecting another parents wishes and sheer ignorance

I want a burger now...

Hahahahaha

My daughter (13) has just been telling me about her day out in London today with her best mate and her family

they went out for dinner, and they offered to let her have a glass of wine with it, just as theirs were

And they didn't ask me first, oh noes

Should I be outraged? 😆

ps. her comment when I read her the first post on here: 'Good man!'

Whether you are outraged depends on your views on alcohol. I would expect to be asked, but would be happy for my kids to have wine with a meal at that age.

It's shit.
Why they went on to global dominance and Wimpy didn't I don't know."

McDonalds was less shit?

 

http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/article/health-department-confirmed-semen-found-mcdonald%E2%80%99s-mayonnaise

And they didn't ask me first, oh noes

Maybe they think you couldn't give a shit about her. Maybe they know you'd be happy for her to have a glass of wine with her meal under the supervision of those you deem responsible to look after her for the day. Maybe they don't know that there's no evidence that introducing youngsters to alcohol in their early teens makes them responsible drinkers in later life. Maybe there's further information you're not telling us, but retrospectively will later? Maybe she's telling you fibs to get a reaction.

EDIT:

ps. her comment when I read her the first post on here: 'Good man!'

Tbf, she's only 13, so probably still a bit immature, eh?

im about to have an epic flounce tbh. im disgusted.
if that was my child it would be an an ambulance you'd be about to call not social services.
dont ever introduce yourself on the trails binners, it wouldn't end well for you

Are all the vegan child neglecters on your hit list as well? Or is it okay....cuz they neglect their own kids.

Are all the vegan child abusers on your hit list as well? Or is it okay....cuz they abuse their own kids

edit; sorry mate.... your edit was right, that video of a man being AMUSING just over rode all the evidence pointing towards eating shit quality factory farmed meat increasing the cancer risk.

[img] [/img]

That ^ is the internet hardman dance of dome people in this thread. 😀

Darcy - maybe its because they're from Yerep?

The dads Danish (mmmm, bacon!)

Vote UKIP to stop Yerepeans poisoning our children with dirty stinking foreign wine!

Genuine LULZ at "vegan child neglector" on a thread about feeding a child junk food.

I just did. With the right application vegan diets cab just about be normal. With the emphasis on "just" and it would appear vegans often don't follow an appropriate diet.

Diplomatic language etc.

oh wicked. do share

edit; sorry mate.... your edit was right, that video of a man being AMUSING just over rode all the evidence pointing towards eating shit quality factory farmed meat increasing the cancer risk.

All red meat increase your cancer risk, so does sitting under that organic thing in the sky called the sun.

One time isn't, being a vegan all your life quite possibly does damage children though.

should i go onto Mc donalds and see all the healthy meat eaters following appropriate diets and see what i am missing out on ...i would take my kids but tbh I rarely let them out the cellar 😉

Legal reference please

We both know if you could refute it you would have done by now

being a vegan all your life quite possibly does damage children though

More lULZ. Tom, you are talking bobbins.

I want to meet Jonah Tonto on the trail, just so I can laugh and then run away. Maybe me and binners should hit the trails together, you know, for mutual protection.

More lULZ. Tom, you are talking bobbins.

Table 1 summarizes current recommendations for children being weaned onto a vegetarian diet (4,27,28). Children consuming atypical diets are not uncommon and are on the rise, as judged by the plethora of information on veganism directed to those caring for children. For example, an Internet search of the terms ‘vegan’ and ‘children’ produced 1,380,000 hits. Without the appropriate monitoring and supplementation, these diets may have deleterious effects on a child’s health outcomes. Nutritional deficiencies, particularly early in life, may adversely affect growth, bone mineral content, and motor and cognitive development. Most significantly, it is important to recognize that although it is the 21st century, children may still die as a consequence of being placed on these atypical diets by their parents without appropriate care and supervision. Because these deleterious affects can be avoided, it is highly recommended that child health practitioners carefully review dietary intake, including all supplements, when interviewing parents who provide these atypical diets (especially during infancy and early childhood) and make the appropriate interventions.

In other words, Vegans have been so bad at feeding their children in the past that the professionals don't trust you to do it properly.

And on that bombshell, I am flouncing for the night.

[i]Legal reference please
[/i]
Like you have not looked on google and failed to find anything to negate it

Nearly an hour of googling and he's found nothing so he's off

My (vegan) kid is in the 97th percentile for height

My kid eats meat and is in the 99.6th percentile, so that PROVES meat is better for you! Doesn't it?

Ok... try again.... FFS ITS A BURGER

Ok, let me spell it out.

You're saying this because you do not think a burger is a big deal.

The girl's parents DO think it's a big deal.

It's a matter of opinion.

Maybe me and binners should hit the trails together, you know, for [s]mutual protection[/s] a self-congratulatory reacharound

yes but so does eating uranium (which is also organic btw) doesn't mean we do it just cos sunburn causes increased risk of melanoma does it?

a child doesnt have the necessary skills to make informed decisions. this is why we make decisions for them about what goes into their bodies.

again, got any evidence to back your point up that

vegan diets cab just about be normal

 

And the 99% population who are not vegan are doing such a great job of looking after their health, right Tom?

Molgrips, I don't even know what the 97th percentile is. The doctor told me at the last checkup and I just nodded sagely 😳

See previous links Jonah.

Eg> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2528709/ <

I can see that molgrips but it seems, in STW stylee, to have been blown out of the water to moral outrage land! still suppose I shouldnt be surprised by this. Please think of the kittens faces as they eat the baby robins whilst deciding what tyres for going to McDonald's 😆

I can see that molgrips but it seems, in STW stylee, to have been blown out of the water to moral outrage land! still suppose I shouldnt be surprised by this.

I reckon a quick survey if the thread would show there's as many if not more who, not only are not outraged but are determined not to be.

Tom there are a number of problems with your cited research but the main one being it is about vegetarians and not vegans and your comment was about vegans not vegetarians
Jesus your shit at this aren't you
Imagine not even being able to troll well, that is beyond tragic

PS it also says

IS THERE A REAL CAUSE FOR CONCERN?
As noted above, a well-planned and carefully followed vegetarian diet can satisfy the nutrient requirements for infants and children, and thus cause no real concern

it is not hard to find poorly meat etaters and/or their children either

It is almost as if the main thing is eating well not whethe ryou eat meat or dont 💡

Jesus your shit at this arent you

He can't even flounce FFS.

I think he might this time 😆

I can't help myself, but Junkyard, I don't really give a damn as veganism has more nutritional issues than vegetarianism anyway.

DD... outrageous!!! 😆

and thus cause no real concern

Diplomatic and/or badly edited considering the rest of the paper.

this is why it is better to [i]threaten[/i] a flounce....it is much harder to successfully flounce than most people imagine.

Damnit.

Also, sorry Junkyard if I insulted you earlier. I felt a bit trolly tonight, no excuse really but I hope you accept it.

I just ate duck.

It tasted lovely. No real addition to the thread, I know, but it's better than the nit picking copy and paste monotony that it's doubtlessly going to descend in to!

I feel as if I killed this threads buzz, so now...I really do....100 percent flounce.

Cpt I liked it more when you at least tried to engage. So free will- any limits or any responsibilities when a child just wants to do something ? Go on give it a go before you duck out / duck off

Lol that this thread is still going AND some of the crud being spouted. There is absolutely no evidence of a vegan or vegetarian diets being bad for you or for children. We are pre-dispositioned to obtain all of our necessary nutrients, vitamins and minerals from vegetables, fruit and grains.

When it comes to this I will go on experience and all our kids have been raised vegetarian, all 4 of them had crazy good immune systems growing up, were in the 95% for height and extremely fit and active. My two sons still do ultra marathons with me, all on veggie diet.

As a balance, my two daughters are now fish and occasional meat eaters and are just as healthy as they eat quality sourced ingredients, not crap at fast food joints.

No real addition to the thread, I know

Well, it is a post from you, so no surprise there really.

tom, im sorry, but the science in that article is just bunk. parts like -

Total protein in vegetable-based foods is lower than in animal sources; plant protein is less digestible than animal protein; and many vegetable proteins are deficient in one or more essential amino acids

once again, i eat meat, but for pleasure. to do do for health is simply ill informed

Jonah, you're wasting your breath mate. He's over on amazon buying a copy of Veganomicon.

i eat meat, but for pleasure.

Are we at a point in the thread where I can say "Hello Sailor, fancy a drink?" 😉

Blimey! 9 pages? 😯

I haven't read read the last couple of pages, so has...

A) anyone mentioned Hitler?
B) is it all thatchers fault?

I suppose I should have just gone to Gregg's and got her a cheese and onion pasty. Steak bake for the girls, obviously. Even vegans love Gregg's, surely?

I had a McDonalds burger once, about 30 years ago, and I still vividly remember how disappointing it was. A tasteless, textureless bun with what seemed like a tiny burger in it.
Compared to a good fish supper, it was very poor fare, and I've never been tempted to repeat the experience.

^^ If you think a cheese & onion pasty is ok for a vegan diet then think again.

Oi, Junky!

You coming camping in 2 weeks?

I'll bring some Pepperami for the boys 😀

McD used to pre fry in cow and then re fry in veg oil and claim they were veggie

They did in the US, fairly certain that McD's fries in the UK have always been veggie.

it would appear vegans often don't follow an appropriate diet.

Hardly the exclusive domain of vegans though, is it. All the omnivores are the very picture of health of course, well, aside from the obesity epidemic.

I'll speak as someone who actually went through this as a kid. Me and my sister were forced to follow my mothers beliefs as kids, both religion and diet.

School, party's and play dates were always being spoiled be embarrassing situations around food. It really was awful watching all your friends being the same and you being the odd one out.

Thankfully for me, my dad didn't follow my mothers beliefs and when I was around 8 she caved in and allowed me and my sister to choose. That was unquestionably the best decision she made for us as kids.

I can't describe how happy it made us, we were now 'normal' again, just like all our friends.

Our relationship with my mum would definitely have been worse now if she had continued to force her beliefs on us and not given us the choice at such a young age.

If you are forcing your kids to follow your beliefs, be aware that they might not be having as good a time as they make you believe. Me and my sister still hold some resentment over what we were forced to follow as kids, thankfully, we got to choose.

Please give your kids a choice.

fairly certain that McD's fries in the UK have always been veggie

No fair cop i was wrong as i thought they did it here.
Sorry

I'll bring some Pepperami for the boys

Struggling as its a Bday weekend so still sat on the fence but should know soon - not me holding it up mind.

Dont disagree re kids choosing but mine are still young 8 & 7 so at the "coeerced " [possibly] stage rather than forced/parents deciding. Neither want to be anything other than vegan at present but i would still call it less than free will.

You can't have Gregg's cheese and onion pasties?!!!!!

FFS?!!! What kind of sub-human misery are these people enduring? Is it like some uber-catholic sect, circa 1648? 😯

I hope the bloody cheese and the onions appreciate your efforts!

Two sundays ago some jehovahs witnesses knocked on our door and tryed to engage in conversation.
Mom ,dad and two year old son in a suit.

Mom and dad looked happy though...

Cheesy in more than one way there binners

^^^ I can have cheese and onion pasties (had one Monday at Roes Plaice in Rhyl, think it had potato in too).

I think it's probably somewhat more difficult to get a balanced nutritious vegan diet, more so than a traditional one. If most vegan parents are careful conscientious menu planners then some are surely not and think it's ok to just eat raw veg or whatever. So lack of education might account for some statistical discrepancy in the two populations.

more so than a traditional one

can i ask what proportion of a traditional diet meat should makes up?
tbh i guess what im really asking is what is 'traditional'?

Traditional:

cereal/toast/eggs/juice for breakfast
sandwich/soup/salad for lunch
meat+veg/pasta/curry/stew etc for dinner

That might not be a perfect diet but because it would be considered 'normal' it's easy to acheive without knowing much and without thinking about it.

If you're a vegan in the West there's not really a traditional well known menu to fall back to - you have to do your research and learn what you need to eat to make up for the animal protein you're missing. Don't you?

You're not missing out on animal protein. You only need to ensure you get the amino acids your body doesn't produce itself. However, this would only be a problem if you obtain protein from only one source. A reasonably balanced diet should ensure a vegan gets all of them, but like you mention above, education plays a big part.

When I first became vegan aged 18 or so, I got a cook book and took a bit of care about it. A friend did the same but lived above a chippy and existed on chips and mushy peas. He went thin and a strange colour, not surprisingly.

you could eat all that tbh except the eggs and meat
Protein is not a huge issue as you just eats beans /pulses/nuts etc
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegandiets.aspx
Iron, Calcium and B12

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's not hard, but you need to make an effort rather than just stop eating the meat, eggs and dairy. I'm certainly not anti veganism, except on grounds of taste (to my shame)

You get used to the blandness 😉

You just get used to eating different stuff I guess
Possibly more variety of ingredients than a meat eater??? but the last meat eater I shared with was student days so probably not reflective of what you eat molly.

I eat lots of soups, rice dishes including paella and rissotto, lots of stir fry, curries, soup , stews loads of fruit including juices but i like those so choice. I also make cakes and drop scones [ thick pancakes] including chocolate chip ones twice a week ish so not a uber health freak but I do eat well

I own a chip pan as well though as I am proper northern so chips to often as well as other fried stuff like my bhajis and pakoras and poppadoms ...less healthy but yummy.

10 farking pages. Ten. I've been following this, on and off, for most of today. I have a vested interest. My parents were both omnivores (normals) until my dad went super-vegan at the ripe old age of 42.

We went to his mate's 40th birthday party, in the middle of the East Lothian woods. As a nine year old unicycling outcast, amongst perhaps 200 vegan weirdos, all skinny-dipping, I held my own. For the first day.

Woke up ravenously hungry, got introduced to the vegan breakfast table, changed my mind. Lunchtime was no better - by teatime, I was ready to kill a baby robin and BBQ its little body. Then: joy of joys - a huge chocolate cake was placed in the middle of the table. After a polite wait for the plankton and seaweed to be cleared, I went in.

It was ****ing carob icing on gluten-free sponge. Tasted like dead dust. Imagine lifting the sofa, sweeping your arm round and swallowing the catch. Tasted just like that. Looked like naked vegan-flesh.

My wife's a veggie, my wee boy has meat for his well-being.

Carob, been there, done that. Imagine being a 6 year old kid experiencing your first Easters with kids getting snickers, mars bar, milky way or malteser Easter eggs and you getting, carob.

I'd imagine 99% of people here haven't had carob. Try it.

I undoubtedly come across abrupt in this matter, but, I've lived it.

How many of you, forcing your children to follow your current beliefs, were forced through that in your childhood?.

You may think you know better, but you don't.

Also, how many of you vegan etc. folk, follow the new age medicine route?. I suffered severe migraines as a child and instead of seeing a doctor, I traveled 25 miles each way to a new age healer. He would 'massage my head' and then send us home with 'treatment pills' (sugar pills).

The pain I went through from that, now knowing it could have been severely reduced, is just another reason I hate religious/fanatical beliefs.