[Closed] Oops! Someone best phone social services....

My view would be that if the action requested by the child didnt harm themselves or others (either in a physical or mental sense), was reasonable AND wasn't breaking any laws then it would probably be ok.
Theres probably a million caveats and exceptions to that statement, but Im still at work and my brain is tired.

Im a little dubious about forcing kids who dont know any better to follow a diet they probably dont fully understand, but thats not my concern.

The analogies and comparisons between cheeseburgers and alcohol and drugs, is an insightful, non-hysterical, measured and accurate one, that's entirely applicable.

Dear god!! What have I done?!!! ... Even the name... the happy meal should reveal the true nature of it's dark, evil intentions. I feel truly ashamed of my actions! Forgive me, oh righteous ones! 😳

[i]Binners
I had a very omnivorish childhood and was seriously eating bacon by the age of ten. I later went on to serloin steak. But it was normal to me and reinforced by mixing with similar omnivores.
As an adult I have been asked by children to buy them burgers, fish n chips and even kebabs and also chicken hotwings...[/i]

Not making light of your unfortunate childhood, pullfaces. But if alcohol=drugs=meat was true, that would read like a sensible statement.

I am still surprised so many think it ok to ignore a parents wishes and then lie to them.

Were the wishes expressly communicated?

Anyone else hungry?

Assuming an accurate representation of the conversation by binners, I very much doubt that it was her first ever burger.

FWIW, I think it was a wrong thing to do, but only mildly, and wrong can be funny.

A vegetarian child pictured yesterday:

[img] [/img]

I can see it now - Mcdonalds is just a gateway to the hard stuff

Within a couple of weeks, Binners is going to be parked outside the school gates, selling the kids tin foil wraps with bacon butties and sausage rolls from a coolbox in the passenger footwell

Oh dear, Binners - you might be in even bigger trouble than you realise. Some vegans would even object to the [url= http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2090337-annoyed-vegan-mum ]bread bun[/url] surrounding the burger 😯

Binners,

Chapeau.

That is all.

Sounds like a public service.

My vegi mates encourage their kids to eat meat so they can make up their own minds.

Hughstew +1

Were the wishes expressly communicated?

2. You know that bit where binners/the kid said about lying to them what do you think sherlock?

The analogies and comparisons between cheeseburgers and alcohol and drugs, is an insightful, non-hysterical, measured and accurate one, that's entirely applicable.

Anyone else hungry?

I am hungry FOR JUSTICE!

Top work binners!

I, on the other hand have fed my two youngest sweet innocent carnivorous offspring with shepherds pie made with (and I can't believe I'm going to say this)

[b]quorn mince[/b]

So. Do I tell them?

JY - No lying has actually knowingly been involved (yet) in the eating of this cheeseburger*. We're sort of taking our lead from the US armed forces policy on gayers: Don't Ask. Don't Tell

* it's not altogether implausible that some deception and mild dishonesty may be involved at some indeterminable point in the future

* phones social services about Bregante*

😀

You know that bit where binners/the kid said about lying to them what do you think sherlock?

Well, if we can leave the abrasiveness aside for a minute, it's not at all clear if Binners was TOLD not to take them to McDonalds. It could be 'dont' tell cos my mum doesn't like me eating meat' or equally 'don't tell because we were expressly told not to do this'.

If Binners was not given explicit instructions, then the parents can't be that bothered about it can they?

I presume most people would flame you for letting the teenage (<18) child of a parent with strong views against alcohol have a couple of beers at your house. Think there's some comparison there.

Meat isn't a drug, alcohol is.

Big difference.

Ha! 😀

Tom_W1987 - Member
Meat isn't a drug, alcohol is.

Funny that, I've had the sweats from two things. Meat and E's. Gotta be something in that!!

Well, classed legally....as a drug. You could argue the case for it altering brain chemistry.

Parents have moral standards and you ignored them and think its funny.

If you don't stone my children to death if they misbehave at your party, I will be outraged!

Meat isn't a drug, alcohol is.

Big difference.

Yeah but alcohol doesn't involve killing animals.

Yeah but alcohol doesn't involve killing animals.

I'm sure the production of whatever crop/plant used in the production of alcohol kills plenty of creatures, inadvertently through the destruction of natural ecosystems.

Also, seeing as it's not the child being killed, I don't see the problem if a child wants to kill animals without their parents consent.

and the health benefits of alcohol are measureably greater than the health benefits of meat

Just imagine your kids thinking they had to lie, thinking that it was best to lie - being afraid to tell you that they had done something as innocuous as eating a beef burger,

all because they were afraid they would get in trouble because of your own 'moral code' that you had imposed on them by default

Thats shit isn't it?

My kids aren't afraid to tell me anything, even if they've done something naughty or ****ed up, because they know I'd support them

and I mean this, my (13yo) daughter came home and confessed to trying an electronic cigarette at a friends house the other week, because she felt pressured to... she didn't get into trouble for it, we talked about it, she got love and support!

Imagine if I had brought her up to think she would get into trouble for something as harmless as eating a ****ing beef burger?

and the health benefits of alcohol are measureably greater than the health benefits of meat

The long term benefits of alcohol use in adults are open to debate but the short term acute effects and developmental issues caused by use of alcohol by children are not.

Purely out of intetest. If you have vegan kids and you send them to a party how do you deal with their lack of inclusion?

I don't mean practically clearly you can send food wih them etc but they will be sitting there not eating the same as everyone else that must cause some tension/exvlusion among 5 year olds?!

If the Vegan Academy finds out, they'll strip his friends' kids of their Vegan Powers. 🙁

short term acute effects and developmental issues caused by use of alcohol by children are not

Thats like saying that paracetamol is a dangerous drug that should never be given to children

its about dosage innit!

An occasional small glass of wine with sunday dinner - good for them, both socially and functionally - kids drinking regularly or large amounts, clearly a bad thing

sort of like the difference between your kid eating the occasional happy meal, or eating there every day!

I don't see the problem if a child wants to kill animals without their parents consent.

So if they started killing stray dogs you'd be fine with that?

Sorry to be a broken record here, but most people on this thread are guilty of judging other people by their own standards.

Imagine if I had brought her up to think she would get into trouble for something as harmless as eating a ****ing beef burger?

It's not harmless to the cow, is it? And I believe that is often the whole point of being vegan..?

WTF happened in here??

It's not harmless to the cow, is it? And I believe that is often the whole point of being vegan..?

Perhaps the kid couldn't care less about the cow's feelings and just wants a burger? I believe that is often the whole point of being able to make your own mind up.

It's not harmless to the cow, is it

The cows already dead though, in fact it was almost certainly already killed, minced, cooked and put on the bun when they walked into the store, if they hadn't of eaten it, it would have been thrown in the bin and wasted, an even worse crime because the cow would then have died in vain, without bringing tasty meatiness to anyone!

Have we considered that this is a made up story with the objective of seeking attention due to being bored?

Oops, in the minority on this one - Ben, think you nailed it on page 3.

Tut, tut Binners! But I think they will get over it - just 😉

Yes, worth an outside bet, that it's simply a wind up story. In which case chapeau bins, but much less so if true!

Perhaps the kid couldn't care less about the cow's feelings and just wants a burger?

Perhaps the kid should understand the feelings of the cow before it decides to have a burger, if it then chooses one it has, at the very least, made it in light of the facts?

Why would you give a child Quorn. Its hideous.

This isn't a story, it's an account, and is entirely factual. I just thought I'd share. Much as I did in the burgery loviness offered by those Golden Arches. I couldn't possibly have known it would cause such division, controversy, and drugs references

I went for a Big Mac meal BTW. After some procrastination about the Memphis burger

I used to live with a vegan guy. I don't know whether it was just him, but veganism looked like quite a difficult choice, what with all the research as to what he can eat and drink, going to far away shops to get the best stuff and keeping his discipline in the face of so many easier choices. I genuinely admire someone who has made the choice to be vegan, it is clearly not the easy option.
Be honest with yourselves, can a child really make such a choice?
Do they really understand their choice?
Is it fair for any child to live with such pressures, especially when we live in a society already obsessed with putting pressure on kids?

Just saying like...

Rather than get dragged into his childish opinions about what kids can and can't eat why not focus on the following

Binners chose to ignore a fellow parents beliefs

Now as someone who regularly runs kids football and am entrusted with these kids whilst the parents go off and do their cycling or running) I would be horrified if any of the parents thought I could be capable of doing something like this.

The main thing this has shown me is what a coward he is. It doesn't take a big man to turn the cheek and be the popular dad. It takes a mature guy to explain that on this occasion, knowing that the girls parents are vegans that we can go to McDonald's but she can't have meat. Unpopular -yep. Then a real man has a quiet word with the kids parents and risks being even more unpopular and points out how keen their child was to have a burger. In doing this you both respect the parents, try to help the kid and keep a 100% clear conscience

Oooooooooooooooo - well that's me well and truly put in my place then. You're right. I'm very weak willed. Cowardly even.

I feel a bit like Butch, as a child, in Pulp Fiction, having just received the watch from Christopher Walken

hora - Member
Why would you give a child Quorn. Its hideous.

Acting like a child just confirms it. You took the easy popular route rather than the unpopular difficult route. What is it? The thought of facing the girls dad a bit much ? Surprised a big man like you doesn't print off this thread and show it to him to show what a man he is.

The main thing this has shown me is what a coward he is. It doesn't take a big man to turn the cheek and be the popular dad. It takes a mature guy to explain that on this occasion, knowing that the girls parents are vegans that we can go to McDonald's but she can't have meat

Here we are kids, time for the team Christmas party, tenpin bowling and pizza - oh no, sorry David, you're not invited because your parents are Jewish, and I don't want to offend their sensibilities!

Some of you need to remember the unbridled excitement and the rare memories of random experiences, of being a child.

Wow, this thread has it all tonight, mind you it's better than watching bgt I suppose.. 😯

Backing up a bit,

I dont care if folk give my kids sweets or fizzy pop these are not moral issues and that I can turn a blind eye to easily.

Your entire argument then hinges on the assumption that the family is vegan for moral reasons, which isn't something we can reliably infer from the OP. What if they were vegan for health reasons, would Binners' actions be perfectly acceptable to you then (just like your sweets and pop)?

What if they were vegan for religious reasons?

Yes. It is not a "standard". That would suggest it is some way superior to eating meat.

You seem to be confusing this with "default"; something can be [i]a[/i] standard without being [i]the[/i] standard. No-one's suggested that it's superior (though the vegans presumably think it is, or they wouldn't do it). You however seem to be implying that it's inferior, which is an equally bogus idea.

JY - No lying has actually knowingly been involved (yet)

Thank god you glossed over that actual moral bit there and managed to avoid discussing the actual issue/ It is to repeat whether you should or you should not respect the views of a parents whose child you are looking after. Hobo nails it and acts like a grown up.

if we can leave the abrasiveness aside for a minute

Perhaps the kid couldn't care less about the cow's feelings and just wants a burger? I believe that is often the whole point of being able to make your own mind up.

can a child really make such a choice?
Do they really understand their choice?

Hobo - I can imagine your house is a bloody riot of fun in an evening.

My son has just come back from an overnight stay at a Indian families house. He plays football with the son. The 3 boys there all wanted chip shop take away. Turns out (new one to me), the family don't allow certain meat to be eaten in their household on Tuesdays. One of the boys didn't like fish (allowed) but insisted he wanted sausage. In the end two boys ate inside one ate his jumbo and chips outside. I congratulate all concerned. The parents stuck by their beliefs. The boy got his sausage and dealt with it in an adult way and none of all involved felt any issue was caused.

Amazing how kids can be taught values without being made to feel bad about it.

Is there a limit to going well the kid wanted to so it is ok? Do you respect parents choices or just ignore them?

I think that argument was quite clearly settled in Gillick v West Norfolk & Wisbeck Area Health Authority [1986] 😉

Where does that come from saccades? I have expressed an opinion about someone's attitude. You have just made a cheap, unfounded potshot. Wierd.

I can't make any assumption about you other than being a bit of a follower trying to get cheap laughs. Is that ok?

Binners that is fankly disgusting and appaling

Really you should ahve teken the chiddlers to Burger king for some tasty tasty meaty flame grilled flavours!

If you entrust your child to another parent and dont give them explicit information on dietary requiremnts or such your explicit about such things expect other people to do .. shock horror what they would normally do! (i'm sure the level 5 vegans have posted up on some vegan forum how they took binner children out and fed them some kind of tofu based health food)

And remeber people.. the cuter the animal the tastier it tends to be! 😀

I'm flouncing out, not that I've really contributed, but blimey a lot of you are talking like complete bell-ends, hunting out any negative angle possible, but only from some self-elevated moral position.

This thread has no winners, but by lord does it have a lot of nobbers.

It's a child.

The child has a memorable day with a friend.

Child has happy memory.

Grow up you sanctimonious, judgmental tits.

I should add, in a severe lack of being allowed to grow up kind of way.

Never hid where meat came from to my kids (we keep chickens and go to hog roasts etc) and they chose to eat meat, expecting kids to slaughter their first meal, did the vegans make their kids dig up the mushroom and process it to make quorn? Daft argument, just because you can't hear the mushroom scream...

If there is a medical reason for a diet then anyone looking after kids in that situation should know, in binners situation you'd have to think the parents know they are pissing into the wind.

Might not give a shit about the legality of drugs/alcohol/underage sex/not going home/running away /being homeless/etc either - Cpt stop flirting with the issue and actually engage. Is there a limit to going well the kid wanted to so it is ok? Do you respect parents choices or just ignore them?

All of those are covered by law, for good reason. Funnily enough.... eating meat isn't.

I'm with Junky and Hobo.
If true............this is a big breach of trust. If it was my veggie kid, I wouldn't be mad but would be left thinking what a selfish ****t OP was.
I notice quite a few of the supporters of the action here are the same people who totally over-reacted when someone's fake plastic car got a minor bump from a lady in a car park. Priorities I guess, and an inability to accept and encourage other people's values.
Hora - weren't you questioning the morality of taking advantage of an obviously incorrect discount code earlier?

What's it like sitting waaaay up there you lot ?

Pointy fingered do gooders, or rather obnoxious gits.

You're a funny old lot sometimes, fanx for the entertainment 😆

and an inability to accept and encourage other people's values.

Nahhh, just a distrust of authority mixed with secularist nihilism.

Also, vegans are mentally deranged dirty hippies....so it's all gravy.....for the cause etc etc etc

Just to balance my boring stance out a little. My wife's best friend of nr 30yrs is vegan. We go there to eat and always have banter about what we eat. It's no big deal one way or another. This isn't about a childs eating habits. It's about the flippant disregarding of a parents wishes.

As a person in charge of other families kids I would never knowingly go against their wishes. Amazed

All of those are covered by law, for good reason. Funnily enough.... eating meat isn't.

Awesome as drinking alcohol is perfectly fine for a child aged five to 16 to drink alcohol at home or on other private premises.
Some medicine has minute amounts of alcohol in so even that is not technically illegal for under 5 but you can be prosecuted or not

Ah damn now you have to engage with point made

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_w/faq_index_family/faq_family_legal_age_drinking_and_smoking.htm

http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/check-the-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s?gclid=COCtgpCsz74CFa3LtAodMl4AFw

vegans are mentally deranged dirty hippies

You missed the point as it was about the child choosing - ar eyou saying they can chose fine if it is legal

Yup, because if it wasn't....people cleverer than you would have legislated against it.

Some medicine has minute amounts of alcohol in so even that is not technically illegal for under 5 but you can be prosecuted or not

Homeopathic alcohol? I fail to see an issue.

because if it wasn't....people cleverer than you would have legislated for it.

Your trolls are as poor as your comprehension skills

I believe that is with parental consent, if not....well that needs changing.

Otherwise I don't give a hoot about meat consumption by children, against the wishes of their parents.

Your trolls are as poor as your comprehension skills

I would call you out on your grammar but mine isn't much better on forums.

No high horse. Just genuinely amazed. Enough said

Not nice or mature at all. Deliberately belittling someone's honestly held beliefs, especially when they are so harmless to others (indeed from an ecological perspective veganism probably benefits everyone) reflects badly on Binners.

Deliberately belittling someone via their (10 year old!) child is even worse.

Boasting about it on the Internet, priceless.

Hope you get the opportunity to explain yourself, and more importantly your infantile gloating, to the parents.

Perhaps the kid couldn't care less about the cow's feelings and just wants a burger? I believe that is often the whole point of being able to make your own mind up.

Perhaps the parents are trying to teach their values to the kid? I can't believe what I am reading here - STW is all about the parenting advice teaching kids values - and then suddenly, when it's about something we don't all share we're meant to let the kids do whatever they want?

Perhaps the kid will just want a spliff in 5 years time or a few pints of stella? My daughter just wants to spend all day playing on the tablet without sharing it, perhaps I should leave that decision up to her too?

HOWEVER

The fact that the parents didn't mention it before taking the kid out is crucial here. It suggests they are prepared to accept the inevitable, doesn't it? Binners DID NOT deliberately undermine their beliefs because he doesn't actually know what the deal is between kid and parent. If they had explicity told him not to feed her meat and he did, then that would be bad BUT THEY DIDN'T. And I'm sure he would not have gone against their direct reqest.

especially when they are so harmless to others

The majority of children grew and developed normally but they did tend to be smaller in stature and lighter in weight than standards for the general population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3414589

My wife's best friend of nr 30yrs is vegan. We go there to eat and always have banter about what we eat.

Speaking as a vegetarian of 20 years, I can tell you that endlessly having to talk about what we eat never grows old, and we're eternally grateful that some clever omnivore brings it up every. gods. damned. time. we dare to eat in public.

Our favouritest ever topics in the whole world are "but wwhhhhyyyyyyyyy?!", a big list of reasons why we're wrong, and how much they couldn't do it as the love meat sooooo much. Did I ask you to give up meat? No. So shove some of it in your face if it'll shut you up and let me have my dinner in peace.

having typed and retyped this a few times here goes...
Right, I have read the whole thread over the course of the afternoon and evening. my what a load of crap. FFS it was a burger not hard drugs. if the kid wanted a burger let them have a sodding burger. had they wanted to stick with the vegan principles of the family then they would have likely spoken up and asked for one of those vile bean burgers or a nice salad. as a child I was very allergic to most of the artificial rubbish in food and it was all banned in my house... the first thing I went for when I was out with friends at that age was anything on the forbidden list. SHOCK HORROR! young child in blatant disregard for parental teachings!!! I knew what I was and wasn't supposed to eat. Parents of my friends also knew what I wasn't allowed and only a few of those gave 2 short. get over it and enjoy your meaty/meat free diets in peace and harmony *and breathe*

Do McDonald's do any vegan food?
are chips vegan?

First Nelson Mandela and now this. 🙁

The majority of children grew and developed normally but they did tend to be smaller in stature and lighter in weight than standards for the general population.

Cherry picking. It goes on to say,

It is concluded that provided sufficient care is taken, a vegan diet can support normal growth and development.

TBH, if the kids I see walking from school are anything to go by, being lighter in weight is probably no bad thing.

I'm going to state that I think Binners let the child eat much needed nutrition and therefore should be commended for his valiant service in the treatment of childhood malnutrition.

Cherry picking.

Not really, I think forcing a child to grow shorter is obnoxious and no better than FGM.

Funny thing is, the parents might not actually be that bothered.
But STWers ARE!

Funnily enough cougar it's usually her describing the process the bit of meat I have on my plate went through. I take it in the manner it's meant. Sometimes I eat lots of that stuff she eats to show I am not adverse to trying it. It's just different strokes and all that.

What you thought I was the big bad meat eater who tries to force my own love of meat onto her. She is Methodist as well, you should listen to the convos about religion we have

Not really, I think forcing a child to grow shorter is obnoxious and no better than FGM.

I think forcing a child to grow taller due to feeding them meat laced with growth hormones is etc etc.

I think forcing a child to grow taller due to feeding them meat laced with growth hormones is etc etc.

Not going to be teased for being an average height are they?

They'd still grow taller with nice tasty organic meat or a vegetarian diet. Also, I believe the EU banned meat laced/contaminated with growth hormones.

What you thought I was the big bad meat eater who tries to force my own love of meat onto her

To be honest I wasn't thinking anything about you specifically, I was just having a general-purpose rant at the world in general.

Well then I take it as a compliment you chose to quote me in your general rant at the world in general. Wow