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JY makes good points.
i guess when you (JY) let your kids go off with other 'responsible' adults, you might want to have the conversation up front.
seems the majority of STW think that food choices are not important, but probably think differently about other comestibles & combustibles
is it more acceptable to take a five year old to slaughter a sheep with a knife if they are from a carnivore background, than a vegan one..... or is it something that the kids parents should be involved in (decision wise)
How can a child eating a hamburger be compared with drinking alcohol or taking drugs?
Depends on peoples beliefs and moral compass. What is important to you may not be important to others and vice versa.
Seems to be a worrying trend on the forum at the moment to casually dismiss the values and beliefs of others if they are different.
I can appreciate the fun in giving a consenting veggie kid their first burger, but I think the apparent failure to grasp that this might be important to the kids family is very disrespectful. Suspect a bit of keyboard warrior syndrome is involved though.
How is being a vegan a "standard"?
Is that a serious question?
Hora many folk were smacked as kids and now think it is wrong - using your logic they should smack their lkids and then let them decide?
FWIW i cannot , nor does any other parent, let their kids do things they think are wrong. We all have different things we think are right and wrong be it games age limits, amount of internet usage, eating junk food etc but we all make choices for our kids rather than let them do the things we object to and the let them decide to the "right thing"
you may as well say never let them exercise and let them eat shit and when they are older they can decide to eat well and exercise. ...its a crap argument when applied to non vegan things as it is when applied ti vegan things
From my first post - do I need to make it clearer?
Yes.
Do you mean you would want the other parent to telephone you and then you would speak on the telephone to your child?
A comma or two would help as well.
Is that a serious question?
Yes. It is not a "standard". That would suggest it is some way superior to eating meat.
[i]is it more acceptable to take a five year old to slaughter a sheep with a knife if they are from a carnivore background, than a vegan one..... [/i]
What? Now they're knifing stuff? Binners? You evil bastard!
This
Seems to be a worrying trend on the forum at the moment to casually dismiss the values and beliefs of others if they are different
This
the apparent failure to grasp that this might be important to the kids family is very disrespectful
and this
We all have different things we think are right and wrong be it games age limits, amount of internet usage, eating junk food etc but we all make choices for our kids rather than let them do the things we object to and the let them decide to the "right thing
you might want to have the conversation up front.
I have to obviously as many are confused about what it means.
they all know from school though.
I tend to send a packed lunch with my kids as some parents, even though they are nice [ or so i thought till this thread] are clueless about what it means.
Some go the extra mile one mother made a vegan B day cake for her son which i thought was OTT and one changed the activity - food related - to include a vegan option
As folk have said your moral code and theirs may differ. they are moral choices though the meat eaters seem to struggle to see vegan as one. I was just trying to use something that most parents would be morally against as an example as they are not getting the dont eat meat bit are theyHow can a child eating a hamburger be compared with drinking alcohol or taking drugs?
Why can't said V's let their child decide too? Or is it a case of 'we know whats best for them'?
Obviously once your daughter is over 16 you wash your hands of who she sleeps with and how quickly she gets knocked up? Maybe these things are not comparable to you or I, but that's the whole point. Why should your weaker moral compass overule someone elses stronger one? I know of households who were fine with their kids sleeping around from 14. At what age Would you let your kid go and do anything they pleased as long as it was legal?
Why can't said V's let their child decide too? Or is it a case of 'we know whats best for them'?
Yes, how dare we claim that we know what's best for our kids?
Thinking about it, I'd be pretty annoyed if I found out too - not so much for the meat eating, but because it shows a lack of respect and a dereliction of trust. They trusted you to look after their kid, you deliberately did something they'd disapprove of.
Taking any kids to Macdonalds, especially not your own just makes you a tw_t. Had this been a fine steak story it would have been funny.
Junkyard - there's a lot of pi$$-taking going on in this thread and we all love Binners cos he makes us laugh. I don't think Binners meant for it to get taken seriously, we all need a bit of light relief in these challenging times.
I understand completely the points you're making and that is obviously your right as a parent. We're all making assumptions about childrens ages, we don't know them so we don't know whether the children in Binners care are able to make an informed decision.
We all have boundaries but they won't be the same as the next person. That's just how it is.
heheh.. good work
someone did a similar thing with my mate's kids
one of them went into anaphylaxis as they were intolerant to much of the crap in the junk food, hence the family's wierd eating habits
It was ****ing hilarious.. the kid's such a spac now from the oxygen starvation so it's the joke that just keeps on giving.. hours of fun watching him stagger about bumping into thing groaning and drooling..
we all call him zombie boy.. funny as **** 😀
They trusted you to look after their kid, you deliberately did something they'd disapprove of.
I'm glad some of you are responding this way, on reading the comments after the op I was starting to wonder if I was the only one thinking it was a bit off.
Why can't said V's let their child decide too? Or is it a case of 'we know whats best for them'?
Fine, but what gives another adult the right to decide that someone elses kid should be eating meat.. (or gluten.. or dairy.. or nuts, or Enumber additives, or antibiotics, or preservatives, or carcinogens, or hormones, or questionable food products?)
If you take a diabetic kid to a sweet shop with his friends and they're all tucking in.. of course he's going to say yes please when you hold out a handful of colorful sweets. I guess you're all good as long as you deliver them home without telling the parent and before the side effects kick in..
is it more acceptable to take a five year old to slaughter a sheep with a knife if they are from a carnivore background, than a vegan one.....What? Now they're knifing stuff? Binners? You evil bastard!
This is Manchester that we are talking about. Hora Jnr is already proficient with a 9mm and three forms of lethal streetfighting.
I'm glad some of you are responding this way, on reading the comments after the op I was starting to wonder if I was the only one thinking it was a bit off.
Nope, you're not the only one. OP very disrespectful and untrustworthy.
[img] 
[/img]
Binnersjnr
Obviously you are joking about this but I don't think it's funny you boasting how clever you think you are, when really all you are saying is you don't respect your friends choices. And are you not just saying to the kids, don't listen to what your parents want because I happen to think they are wrong.
And if it means eating MacDonalds, the parents are probably right and you're wrong.
I knew this would kick off!
I wouldn't take a muslim kid to have a bacon sandwich after an event. If I knew I was looking after a vegan kid, I'd probably ask the parents.
To be honest, given how hard it is to find vegan food in a takeaway/fast food context* I'd imagine the parent knew full well what was likely to happen. At a guess, they aren't that hardline and value their kid's social experiences more than the strictness of their diet.
They may even be fine with their kids making their own choices, but if you really have a problem with meat then you can hardly be expected to cook it for your kids can you? So they would not eat it at home but let it happen outside home.
* and knowing Binners 🙂
And why the big over the top thing about being Vegans (or Level 5 vegans as you call it)? Are you frightened of people who are slightly different from you? Is there a whole family of Vegans living next door?
traildog - the vegan aspect was quite important in binners' original post.
If he'd just said "I took some kids to McDonalds" then this thread would've just kicked off about the nutritional value of a happy meal rather than the ethics of feeding a kid something their parents may or may not approve of.
the children in Binners care
Doesn't sound like there was much care going on.
As a parent of a vegan kid I'm obviously biased but even if we weren't vegan and a well-meaning parent took my lad to McD's, I'd be wondering what kind of numpties he was hanging around with.
C-G I know binners I have met him many times and yet somehow none of them have ever involved public houses nor pastry shops.
I must hold some sort of record in this respect.
How old are these kids anyway?
Lighten up Junky!
Without the comma, I read this as a call to, well, take a few slices off the poor ol' bugger. Or force him on a diet or somesuch...
But I get it now.
I read this as a call to, well, take a few slices off the poor ol' bugger.
Er yeah good luck with that one 😉
[i]One day humanity will view [s]religion[/s] Vegetarianism in the same way we view possession as a suitable explanation for mental illness or the flat earth or any other variety of anachronistic superstitious intepretations of reality that have no basis in fact
If they just sat at home or their places of worship and practiced and left me alone I would not care. Not only do they want to live by their rules they think I should as well[/i]
😉
the vegan aspect was quite important in binners' original post.
I know, but he makes such a big thing about them being Vegan (level 5!) and tears of animals and shadows etc that it just shows a prejudice against someone who happens to hold slightly different views to him. That's my point, what's the big deal? They eat different food and have slightly different values. Who knows, maybe there will be more Vegan kids in school than meat eating kids if we let this carry on. Why be so arrogant that you think your way is right?
Prejudice or a literary device used to heighten the contrast between their views and the visit to Les Arches d'Or? Though TBH I'd expect binners would struggle to comprehend any dietary choice that exludes the entire Greggs menu.
They eat different food and have slightly different values
No, their parents do, and have decided that their kids must have the same.
4 pages of this and no one sees the obvious troll!!!
No one would let Binners near their kids!!!
Everytime I ride through a field of sheep and lambs I end up having a roast lamb dinner. Can't help it. Mint sauce on just carrots wouldn't be the same.
I know, but he makes such a big thing about them being Vegan (level 5!) and tears of animals and shadows etc that it just shows a prejudice against someone who happens to hold slightly different views to him. That's my point, what's the big deal? They eat different food and have slightly different values. Who knows, maybe there will be more Vegan kids in school than meat eating kids if we let this carry on.
Firstly, the "Level 5" thing is an old Simpsons joke.
Secondly, have you never read any of Binners posts on here before?
Incidentally, ever since the Caroline Aherne thread a few weeks back I've read all of his posts in the voice of Mrs Merton, maybe it would help if you do the same?
After that trip to McD's I bet she gets the shits. 😆
To deny any child the chance to have a decent burger or bacon sarnie is tantamount to abuse anyway.
No, their parents do, and have decided that their kids must have the same.
Exactly as parents who want their children to eat meat do. Funny how, when it involves a vegan diet, it is somehow "brainwashing", but wanting your kids to eat meat and dairy is not 🙄
I don't think Binners meant for it to get taken seriously
Given his subsequent absence from the thread, I'm not sure I believe it even happened. Even binbins wouldn't betray another parent's trust in this manner, would he?
bigyinn - Member
To deny any child the chance to have a decent burger or bacon sarnie is tantamount to abuse anyway.
Sadly this is not an example of a good burger.....now 2:30am outside the local nightspot the delights of not only a burger but kebab meat too.
Exactly as parents who want their children to eat meat do.
Nope, I wouldn't dream of saying to my kids 'you must have meat' if they didn't want it - nor would I dream of saying to them 'you're not allowed meat' if they did.
The key point in Binners tale is that the kid was old enough to express their own opinion about what they wanted and chose the maccy-d's - beyond that point their parents opinion doesn't matter a jot.
but it's natural innit, we've got the teeth for it and everthing. [s]God[/s] evolution built us to eat fluffy animalsbut wanting your kids to eat meat and dairy is not
Now she has consumed the flesh of dead animals she will not pass into Vegan Heaven and be forever condemned to walk the Meat & Poultry aisles of Tesco. 🙁
Think I'd be pretty pissed off is someone did that to my kids, bit of a knobbish thing to do and they would never see another Christmas card from me, MrsCat would probably be more inclined to do physical harm though.
best trolling of the year award goes to....
but it's natural innit, we've got the teeth for it and everthing. God evolution built us to eat fluffy animals
well that's only half the story innit..
we appear to be evolving to NOT eat meat physiologically speaking
Tiny canines, digestive tract to long to process meat effectively before it starts to rot etc etc
I may not have been being 100% serious in that post yunki 🙂
I do know that on saturday night after visiting bem brazil my digestive tract was definitely suggesting it wasn't made for a diet quite that rich in meat.
Tiny canines, digestive tract to long to process meat effectively before it starts to rot etc etc
Really? Seen out bite power? Why aren't we evolved then to chew soft veg?
Give over. Really. Practice your veganism in the comfort of your own home or restaurant but dont tell others what to eat I say.
The child mentioned in binners first post probably [b]ASKED FOR THE FOOD[/b]. At no point did he say he pressured or made her eat it for fun.
The parents wishes- what about a childs? Should we subdue free choice?
Thinking about it, I'd be pretty annoyed if I found out too - not so much for the meat eating, but because it shows a lack of respect and a dereliction of trust. They trusted you to look after their kid, you deliberately did something they'd disapprove of.
This pretty much nails it for me.
I'd be pissed off with myself that I let someone look after my kids who showed such a childish lack of respect both for me, and for the way I had chosen to bring them up.
The parents wishes- what about a childs? Should we subdue free choice?
Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll for all kids. Hoorah!
Firstly, the "Level 5" thing is an old Simpsons joke.Secondly, have you never read any of Binners posts on here before?
Argh, I know! And I said he's obviously joking. There is probably a lot that he's not saying in order for the joke to work.
But the point of the joke being that he was given kids to look after and ignored parents wishes by giving them what they wanted because he thought what they wanted is daft. That's what the debating appears to be on.
Yes, they are children and have their own minds but as a parent you try and steer your children to make the right decisions in life. If you are looking after children then you should respect what the parents want for that child as well as what the child wants, it's part of being a responsible adult.
The fact that they are Vegans seems to make it all ok, though and I don't really understand the prejudice against such a lifestyle decision which is generally shown on this forum.
You lot wait till MTG gets here.
you're in a loooooot of trouble.
[i]Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll[/i] and meat [i]for all kids[/i]
ftfy
well that's only half the story innit..we appear to be evolving to NOT eat meat physiologically speaking
Tiny canines, digestive tract to long to process meat effectively before it starts to rot etc etc
No, we evolved in tandem with that really clever uniquely human thing we do called cooking
OP, while you're in the mood for buying other people's kids things their parents don't want them to have, I'll have an Alfa Spider please
Some people need to get a grip of the real issue here - He took them to macdonalds!
Some of us clearly haven't evolved. Nice trollage OP!
hould we subdue free choice?
We don't know how old the kids in the OP are (assuming they even exist). My lad is too young to understand why he is vegan. When he is, I'll tell him how animal products arrive on the plate. If he later wants to eat McDonalds, he will make an informed choice and I will respect it. In the meantime I don't want people offering him meat.
we evolved in tandem with that really clever uniquely human thing we do called cooking
[img] 
[/img]
Human's closest genetic cousin.
Eats meat.
Can't cook.
Still has massive incisors.
The parents wishes- what about a childs? Should we subdue free choice?
[b]Hora Junior[/b]: I am a free spirit, it is my desire to stay up all night playing the drums and singing Cold Play songs. If I get thirsty, I shall drink my own piss.
[b]Hora[/b]: I believe in free choice son, you crack on.
The key point in Binners tale is that the kid was old enough to express their own opinion about what they wanted and chose the maccy-d's - beyond that point their parents opinion doesn't matter a jot.
My daughter sometimes sees me wandering about naked*. What if someone else's daughter wanted to see me wandering around naked too?**
*Not in McDonalds. Not after the last time.
**And who could blame her?
Binners,
You naughty man!
Anyway, can I have some fish & chips please if you care to take me out.
😆
In the meantime I don't want people offering him meat.
Unfortunately what One wants and what One gets are seldom the same thing - another vital life lesson for kids to learn!
Human's closest genetic cousin.Eats meat.
Can't cook.
Still has massive incisors.
But would you take it to McDonald's?
OK then using Ben Cooper's example above. I don't really want people naked in front of him either. Is that unreasonable or should I just accept I can't have what I want?
I think Binners was a bit naughty, and that he knows that he was being a bit naughty, and that's probably part of why he did it.
I'll tell him how animal products arrive on the plate
Sizzling and succulent
[Serious Face] Binners, you bin baaaaad. If Binners explains to the child why what he did was wrong can we all go home?
Not for a while. There's another 10 pages in this...
OK, I'll retrench - you yoghurt weavers need to take a chill pill
Edit: Not yoghurt, you can't have yoghurt (imagine that, I can't it's just impossible)...Wheatgrass smoothy weavers take a chill pill
Hmmm anyone heard of Omnivores....
Anyway if you're such a fundamentalist veggie that you will force everyone else to follow your stance - then either supply food for your kid or don't send them out with binners 😆
A whole lot of precious parenting on here; the latest extreme I've heard of was a stay at home dad telling his 18month old that she couldn't go on the slide because it's 'dirty'.
So yes you can wrap your child up, keep them in their room and never let them socialise... good luck with them when they're 20+
Yes I was not impressed when my 9 year old came back saying he'd watched 'Snakes on a Plane' at a friend's house but different houses different rules.
I'd rather she got to know and beware of Binners evil ways now than when she's 18 😈
Everyone is assuming that the kid is also a vegan. Nowhere has it been said that this is in fact the case.
Everyone is assuming that the kid is also a vegan. Nowhere has it been said that this is in fact the case.
If she isnt it was a shit story
Blimey! 5 pages of [s]santimonious, right-on twoddle[/s] heated debate. who'd have thunk it? 😉
Ok.. the whole 'lunch' conversation went as follows:
Me: Where we going for lunch then girls? What do you fancy?
Child protected from the horrors of the world, and mankinds intolerable cruelty to animals: [b]MACDONALDS!!!!!! OR KFC?!!! CANWE?!!! CANWE?!!! CANWEEEEEEEEE?!!!! PURLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ?!!!!!![/b]
My kids: yeah dad, can we?
ME: Hmmmmmmmmmm.... I'm not to sure what your mum would have to say about that?
Child protected from the horrors of the world, and mankinds intolerable cruelty to animals: [b]We don't have to tell her! CANWE?!!! CANWE?!!! CANWEEEEEEEEE?!!!! PURLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ. We can tell her we went somewhere else! Or just had a baked potato at home. CANWE?!!! CANWE?!!! CANWEEEEEEEEE?!!!! PURLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!!![/b]
My thoughts immediately drifted too Viz's Modern Parents. So to those who say they aren't imposing their views and mores on their kids, diet wise, I'd suggest their choices (bright 10 year old BTW) either aren't being properly communicated, or..... she doesn't like the choices being made on her behalf. At all!
Its only a cheeseburger FFS? Nobody died* 😀
* apart from a cow, obviously
Oi... JY.... can you get my kids pissed tonight please. They're giddy as **** after all that sugar and salt. It might calm them down a bit!
different houses different rules.
I refer you to my "wandering about naked" post earlier.
😀
What would be the correct response? Not go to McDonalds because one kid is vegan, possibly leading them to feel different/singled out etc, or go to McDonalds anyway but tell the kid he has to have a veggie burger (is that even vegan?)?
I think the idea of keeping it secret from the kid's parents is pretty dubious though TBH. Take the kid to McDonalds if you like but have the balls to admit it, IMO. I certainly wouldn't be lying about it.
^^^ Clearly* the kid asked to go to McD's and his kids questioned that of both Binners and the kid, I see no reason to change Binners decision to take the kid(s) there at all.
Thier choice to go, can't take away choice IMO.
*I say clearly but we've only got one side of the story.
All good IMO.
What would be the correct response? Not go to McDonalds because one kid is vegan, possibly leading them to feel different/singled out etc, or go to McDonalds anyway but tell the kid he has to have a veggie burger (is that even vegan?)?
Happy meal with fruit instead of a burger is what my stridently veggie 8 year old has. You only have to ask for it.
He'd have told Binners to stick his mechanically reclaimed 'patty' where the sun doesn't shine.
No. 2 son (5) would have had fish fingers or a veggie deluxe.
No. 3 son (4) would have taken down the cow himself, gutted it and shaved out his own tartare.
Sometimes, upbringing appears to have nothing to do with outcomes.
I might tweet this thread to @chorltonproblems
Expect an thousands of [s]angry[/s] passive aggressive letters, Binners!
So to those who say they aren't imposing their views and mores on their kids, diet wise, I'd suggest their choices (bright 10 year old BTW) either aren't being properly communicated, or..... she doesn't like the choices being made on her behalf. At all!
Well put!
It's a little like religion, really.
Now then, Timmy, we believe that [meat is evil/there's a mystical power out there] (Delete as applicable). You must continue that belief, because it's what we believe
Is it any wonder that kids will seek out what they're told they shouldn't have? Ever met a vicar's daughter? 8)
But would you take it to McDonald's?
It would more than likely be serving you
Not yoghurt, you can't have yoghurt
We can they do soya yoghurt - unlike most vegan stuff it is actually pretty much like the real thing
I think the idea of keeping it secret from the kid's parents is pretty dubious though TBH. Take the kid to McDonalds if you like but have the balls to admit it, IMO. I certainly wouldn't be lying about it.
Aye this and you should ask as well IMHO. We were going to watch this film would that be ok - hardly unreasonable. Would it be ok if your child played this game? Can i give them the flesh of a dead animal please*? How many cans is it ok for them to drink etc
JY.... can you get my kids pissed tonight please.
Not now you approve as the example no longer works
You must have some moral somewhere i can ignore 😉
I get the broad point Flashy/Binners but I could say the same with booze, 18 films, doing drugs etc. Kids want to do lots of things their parents dont want them to, some appropriate and some not.
You must have some thing you dont want your 10 year old daughter doing that you would, reasonably, expect another adult not to do with them.
MMM serious chat to be had with kids and every single parent who takes my kids
I am still surprised so many think it ok to ignore a parents wishes and then lie to them.
* said for affect calm down
Soya yoghurt - every day's a school day
It's not OK, but from a third party stance it is funny
Binners
I had a very abusive childhood and was seriously drinking heavily by the age of ten. I later went on to narcotics abuse. But it was normal to me and reinforced by mixing with similar abusers.
As an adult I have been asked by children to buy them cigarettes, alcohol and even glue and also lighter fuel. Some of them asked pleadingly. I'm guessing their self righteous goody goody none abusive soft parents wouldn't have wanted me to but I could understand the children's seeming desire for them.
Would it have been wrong or funny for me not to have been a responsible adult and gone ahead with it?