You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Dropped the car in at a local tyre/repair centre this morning to have the off side rear tyre replaced. Was warned that the apprentice was on tyres today and it might be a while, so wandered off into town to do a few errands and have a coffee.
Came back to find the front end of the car jacked up and both front wheels off. 🤦♂️
The apprentice is looking a bit panicky.
Try saying left or right side rather than off side.
I'd be worried he doesn't know the front from the back......
Try saying left or right side rather than off side.
Your left or my left or the cars left?
Drivers side or passenger side is safest.
Unless you drive a LHD car...
It's a bit shit of the business to let him just do it without any support though. Surely the point of being an apprentice is to learn from more experienced colleagues, not to be told what to do then to be left to get on with it?
Does he also get tasked with going to get tartan paint, glass hammers and long stands too?
Reminds me of when the boss had a hands free kit fitted to his new company Merc (this was back in the day when any self-respecting executive type had a Parrot hands free kit fitted). They sent out a new kid to do it.
After much head scratching he declared it was impossible as try as he might he couldn’t find the right feed off the wiring loom. In desperation he had been shaving off the outer coating of a few wires to try and find a voltage but just couldn’t.
Turns out he had been cutting into the fibre optics that did the data feed for the dash display etc and had completely knackered it, hence why he couldn’t find a voltage. £3k to replace - which of course the fitting co did stand to.
His words - well I’ve never had to do a posh Merc before…
Your left or my left or the cars left?
What a bizarre question?
[i]Your left or my left or the cars left?
What a bizarre question?[i]
Left of car when stood in front looking at it or left when sat in the drivers side. Any clearer?
Potentially also looking at the side of the car from the drives side or passengers side in which case left/right becomes front/back in normal speak.
From abouyt 2:40 in this : https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x33ffu3
Left of car when stood in front looking at it or left when sat in the drivers side. Any clearer?
Potentially also looking at the side of the car from the drives side or passengers side in which case left/right becomes front/back in normal speak.
Precisely.
That's why drivers side/passenger side front/rear is almost infallible.
I say 'almost' because of LHD drive cars and...
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
(this was back in the day when any self-respecting executive type had a Parrot hands free kit fitted).
Middle manager don't you mean, us Exec types had fully functioning Nokia car kits 🙂
Yeah, I hate 'left and right' because it varies depending on if you are driving it, or if you are standing in front with your head in the bonnet. I could tell you that the timing belt is on the left hand side of the engine in a VW Passat but that's the right hand side of the car. And the auxiliary belt is to the left of that, closer to the right hand side. So if you are driving and hear a noise coming from the right hand side of the engine that could be the auxiliary belt, the one on the left side of the engine.
You can quibble about what nearside and offside should mean, but they have specific definitions and aren't terms used for anything else at any point. I've just realised that this is why they use port and starboard on ships.
Aircraft carriers have port, starboard, left and right because sometimes planes and helicopters are nose to stern.
Off side - away from kerb
Nearside - nearest to kerb
As we drive on the left in the uk it is of no consequence whether the car is rhd or lhd.
(ex mechanic, common parlance that is used)
How many pages of semantic arguments are we going to have to read before we find out what the unfortunate apprentice did to the car?
Incidentally, as someone who used to own a LHD car, I got used to specifying near/off side, left/right side, and passenger/drivers side before reminding them again it was a LHD. Never had any issues but I was very paranoid about it.
M/S and F/S innit.
Mothers side and Faithers side.
Offside tyre is behind the 2nd pedestrian and in front of the ball when the ball is played
Try saying left or right side rather than off side.
The garage wrote the job card, not me.
I'm not blaming the apprentice, should have been better supervised. All sorted now, appears to have a full complement of bolts on each wheel....
Left of car when stood in front looking at it or left when sat in the drivers side. Any clearer?
The left side of the car is left side of the car, end of.
If you happen to be standing outside the car facing the front of the car head-on then it might be on your right, but that doesn't impact the fact that it's still the front left of the car.
Having said all of which I agree that when dealing with stupid people you might be better saying driver/ passenger side.
How many pages of semantic arguments are we going to have to read before we find out what the unfortunate apprentice did to the car?
It's all kinda moot anyway when the apprentice had both front wheels off to repair a rear tyre.
Vehicles are left and right in the direction of travel by convention (sitting inside and looking out).
River left / River right...
Your left or my left or the cars left?
Drivers side or passenger side is safest.
Unless you drive a LHD car…
Nonsense.
You would have been lauged out of the room in my experience in the world of vehicle design and maintenance.
Left side. Or Right side. That is the only nomenclature anyone should use!
Aircraft carriers have port, starboard, left and right because sometimes planes and helicopters are nose to stern.
That's an interesting point because the port side is simply the l/h side as you face forward, the starboard side the r/h as you face forward. You wouldn't describe the r/h side of a ship as being 'the port side if you stand in front looking at it'. But some people seem to think that if you talk about the left hand side of the car then you were probably in the boot facing backwards.. 😀
I’m not blaming the apprentice, should have been better supervised. All sorted now, appears to have a full complement of bolts on each wheel….
Have you checked they're your wheels? 😁
A mechanic bent my car door on the ramp when lifting it, apparently the apprentice tried to warn the mechanic but it was too late. Leased company car that was fixed pretty quickly so no real harm done.
The apprentice later today:
All bolts may be present but have you checked they're suitably tight - not too much, not too little...
Does your tyre shop teach apprentices on the basis of...watch one, do one, teach one?
Left side. Or Right side. That is the only nomenclature anyone should use!
The point is that those terms have other meanings and as we've seen it's easy to confuse. Process should reduce confusion wherever possible.
But some people seem to think that if you talk about the left hand side of the car then you were probably in the boot facing backwards..
When working on a car you are very often facing the other way, yes. Just like on a ship you could be walking either forewards or.. aftwards, I suppose.
I once got a cracking price on two Conti Eco's for the car, when I got back the two rear tyres had indeed been changed to Conti Eco's. The one's still leaning on the wall were the correct size, the ones fitted were quite a lot deeper in section than the fronts. Looked all shades of wrong on a front wheel drive car!
When the garage uses the nearside etc terms I always reply with either driver or passenger side because those other terms mean nothing to me. Also left would be the left side of the car from the viewpoint of driving it forwards, any other 'but what if you are looking at it from the side' nonsense is just you trying to be a smart arse, I know because that's the kind of shit I come out with in place of me having a functioning sense of humour.
I also don't get inside and outside lane, I believe that inside is meant to be near the curb, but to me that it wrong, the centre/inside of the road is where the two opposite direction lanes meet and the outside is where the road meets the curb, like the whole road is a thing like a tube.
But anyway, what trouble has the poor lad (terrible sexist assumption) got himself into and how is the car?
Also left would be the left side of the car from the viewpoint of driving it forwards, any other ‘but what if you are looking at it from the side’ nonsense is just you trying to be a smart arse
Unless the bonnets up.
Here's a conundrum. I've reversed my McLaren F1 onto a cross channel ferry. We're exactly halfway between Calais (drive on the right) and Dover (drive on the left). I'm standing at the front of the car.
Which side am I talking about if I refer to:
-left?
-driver's side?
-nearside?
And if I'm doing a handstand when I look at a car does that mean the sunroof is on the bottom?
Its really not hard. The left is the left. The right is the right.
Anyone who claims it easy to mix up - are you unable to distinguish between the front and the back in these photos?
Its using thing like drivers side, offside etc that are open to interpretation, not left and right!
The point is that those terms have other meanings
No, the don't. Left is left.
When working on a car you are very often facing the other way, yes. Just like on a ship you could be walking either forewards or.. aftwards, I suppose.
You could be bloody anywhere, but it still wouldn't affect which side of the car was the left hand side.
left would be the left side of the car from the viewpoint of driving it forwards, any other ‘but what if you are looking at it from the side’ nonsense is just you trying to be a smart arse
Basically this.
Apparently this thread is about an apprentice having a bad day in case anyone needed reminding.
Try saying left or right side rather than off side.
You'd have to be stupendously stupid to work in the UK car maintenance trade and not understand both what O/S and N/S mean AND why they are used. I'd imagine that it's taught on day one.
Port and Starboard would be a suitable replacement.
Spare a thought for dentists..they spend an entire career looking in the mouths of patients and describing the teeth's location ("upper right 8" etc etc) the wrong way around from where they are stood.
But back to the OP - forget the left/right/offside/nearside shenanigans... they went in for one tyres replacement and two were removed. Regardless of location, that's one too many.
My aged mother took her polo in for a service at a VW garage in the middle of a highland winter. Advised her the front tyres were worn and should be replaced. She said yes. I saw the car 8 months later for the first time and they'd replaced them with summers. So summers on the front, winters on the back on a front wheel drive car. Lovely. They admitted their mistake and replaced with winters FOC when she queried.
They were probably just looking at shox/brakes/tracking to try and relieve you of some more cash.
No, the don’t. Left is left.
And nearside is nearside.
Its using thing like drivers side, offside etc that are open to interpretation, not left and right!
that's because only a moron who sort of knew what they were talking about but didn't would use drivers side and offside. It's nearside and offside!
Anyway I give you the audi tt mk1 -
The front and the rear could be either way around and if the handling was anything like reputed, frequently changed mid drive 🙂
Come on, if you're going with cars that look the same front and rear you can do better than a TT! I could (just about) forgive a clueless apprentice getting the front and rear mixed up on one of these!
You’d have to be stupendously stupid to work in the UK car maintenance trade and not understand both what O/S and N/S mean AND why they are used. I’d imagine that it’s taught on day one.
Great, so one half of the people involved in your approach know exactly what the terms mean. Sounds perfect.
What could possibly go wrong?🤔🙄
Drinkers side and captains side, even my 7 year old know which is which.
on one of these!
I like that! Does that make me sad?
Back to boats - there are some chainlink ferries that appear to be symmetrical in two axis of reflection - I wonder how they remember what is the definitive bow and stern (and therefore the port and starboard)? Perhaps they refer to the upstream and downstream sides. But then if on a tidal estuary that changes too...arghh!!
Might be more concerned, as to what they used as the jacking point🤦🏼♂️
When the garage uses the nearside etc terms I always reply with either driver or passenger side because those other terms mean nothing to me.
It took me ages to remember also, but it's relative to the kerb.
Also left would be the left side of the car from the viewpoint of driving it forwards, any other ‘but what if you are looking at it from the side’ nonsense is just you trying to be a smart arse,
But as someone else said, this is assuming relative to the driver and arse-backwards to a mechanic. If you were under a bonnet and had a bolt to your right would you call it "on the left"? What about if you were told to turn it to the right, would that be tightening or loosening? This is why n/s and o/s exist, the terminology doesn't change relative to the viewer so there's no confusion.
I also don’t get inside and outside lane, I believe that inside is meant to be near the curb, but to me that it wrong, the centre/inside of the road is where the two opposite direction lanes meet and the outside is where the road meets the curb, like the whole road is a thing like a tube.
What if there wasn't a carriageway running in the opposite direction?
TBH I'm kind of with you on this. Which is the inside lane on a roundabout? What happens when we get three lanes, four? 1st lane / 2nd lane / n'th lane is far less ambiguous.
Great thread this.
My wife apparently knows how to tighten or loosen bolts by saying lefty loosey, righty tighty. But this means nothing to me. Left what?
Perhaps all this discussion over sides is why the more pragmatic maritime (and indeed aviation) has always referred to 'Port' and 'Starboard'...
..... and this is why surgeons draw a big arrow on whatever part of you they are operating on.
Maybe you should have written 'this one' on the sidewall of the tyre you wanted changing.
My wife apparently knows how to tighten or loosen bolts by saying lefty loosey, righty tighty.
I thought Leftie Lucy was a protagonist on the Starmer thread?
But this means nothing to me. Left what?
Your thumb (as perceived using your own eyes and not having an outer body experience) is moving to the left as you untighten and a normal non-contortionist range of movement to undo said bolt.
My sister is a very intelligent science type with a PhD and doing all sorts of very clever things with the human genome and DNA that I can't pronounce let alone understand. But she has an 'L' and a 'R' tattooed on her wrists which she uses many times a day. Without them she'd be scuppered. It's a medical thing apparently. After this thread I can't wait to quiz her on N/S and O/S! Why have I not used this as an opportunity to bully my clever younger sister before!!!
Does a track car have an off side and near side if it's never driven on a road with a pavement?
Your thumb (as perceived using your own eyes and not having an outer body experience) is moving to the left as you untighten and a normal non-contortionist range of movement to undo said bolt.
You have thumbs at the top of your hand? Are you from St Helens?
Does a track car have an off side and near side if it’s never driven on a road with a pavement?
F1. No passenger side, no drivers side. I don't think all pit lanes are the same direction, so I'm assuming they revert to left and right.
These are important questions damnit! 😁
But she has an ‘L’ and a ‘R’ tattooed on her wrists which she uses many times a day
Wouldn't a watch be more straightforward?
Wouldn’t a watch be more straightforward?
Nope - asked her that. Apparently 'I wear my watch on my left hand therefore as there is no watch this must be the right hand side' doesn't stick. Weird huh?
But as someone else said, this is assuming relative to the driver and arse-backwards to a mechanic.
It's relative to the bloody car, not the person observing the car!
If you were walking along the road with your missus together and asked her to lift up her left hand... then you turn and face her and have a discussion... you ask her to lift up her left hand..
Are you seriously going to tell her " no, that's not your left hand anymore because I'm facing you?" 🤣
If you were under a bonnet and had a bolt to your right would you call it “on the left”?
But the original discussion was nothing to do with "on the left/ right" it was "right or left tyre"
What about if you were told to turn it to the right, would that be tightening or loosening?
It wouldn't be anything. I'd ask them to use sensible terminology like clockwise/anticlockwise not some stupid hack like left/ right. It's a rotation FFS, not a linear movement.
Teaching 13yos about the heart commonly pointed out that the right ventricle is on the left hand side of the diagram. Apparently my answer of "you have to pretend it's your heart" is, rightly, daft.
Drivers side/passenger side, always.
Not the correct techno speak but removes all avoidance of doubt....
..unless it's an import 😉
If you were walking along the road with your missus together and asked her to lift up her left hand… then you turn and face her and have a discussion… you ask her to lift up her left hand..
Are you seriously going to tell her ” no, that’s not your left hand anymore because I’m facing you?” 🤣
If she had a bit of food or something on her left cheek, and you wanted to discreetly mime to tell her without causing embarrassment, would you wipe your own left cheek or your right?
My wife apparently knows how to tighten or loosen bolts by saying lefty loosey, righty tighty. But this means nothing to me. Left what?
Left is anti clockwise if looking from the front of the screw, shirley?
But don't ask her to change your crank or pedals 😀
When I say front of the screw, I mean the bit you put the screwdriver into, not the pointy bit 😀
If you were walking along the road with your missus together and asked her to lift up her left hand… then you turn and face her and have a discussion… you ask her to lift up her left hand
It's HER left hand but it is on YOUR right. All I'm saying is that it's likely to lead to confusion if you talk about things on the left when it's on your own right. And given that we have alternative words that don't have any other meaning and simply cannot be confused, it makes more sense (IMO) to use those. As we have been doing at sea for centuries.
If she had a bit of food or something on her left cheek, and you wanted to discreetly mime to tell her without causing embarrassment, would you wipe your own left cheek or your right?
I dunno, do they have line of sight, or is one looking at the other through a mirror?
Makes you think, heheh
Left is anti clockwise if looking from the front of the screw, shirley?
How'd you work that out? The top of the screw would have to move left but the bottom would move right. So it's both left and right to undo it. Of course, if we are sticking to the direction of travel, then left and right are also reversed if you are screwing or unscrewing the screw.
If the head of the screw is the bit that takes the screwdriver, then doesn't that mean they go in backwards and come out forwards? 😆
How’d you work that out? The top of the screw would have to move left but the bottom would move right. So it’s both left and right to undo it. Of course, if we are sticking to the direction of travel, then left and right are also reversed if you are screwing or unscrewing the screw.
Nah - as I said before it's a human anthropometrics and mechanics thing....which confuses nerds I appreciate. Think of "leftie loosy, righty tighty" as a translational tool between the fluffs and geeks. Us geeks are focussing on the bolt and it's mechanically correct translation in a (helical) anticlockwise rotating to undo. Fluffs are just looking at what their hand does when they do this geeky thing right (that they don't do very often so need a rhyme to remember as they don't have the muscle memory). From a fluffs perspective their fingers are moving to the left as they look down on the top of their hand doing to the do (what with their eyes and hand being orientated as that are on their bodies - you'd not want it the other way around with eyeballs on your kneecaps or you'd spend your days looking up your own butt).
Regardless - it's a simple term that allows fluffs to do the occasional geeky thing without ****ing it up. Some people (geeks) struggle to comprehend the need but without it the fluffs would be lost. Mostly people live in one of the two camps. I'm a D&T teacher so firmly in the geek camp; but I teach a lot of fluffs. I have to speak both languages - I'm a soothsayer if you will.
Interesting. I do have to remind myself which way things turn quite regularly when working on cars etc but this is because I over think and question everything. So I hold up my hand and tell it to do an 'undo' movement and observe what it does. My muscle memory knows, when my brain cannot decide which way to apply maximum force to a breaker bar for example or anything that's not a screwdriver.
I also am over thinking the lefty loosey thing, I'm questioning what is moving left here.
So I hold up my hand and tell it to do an ‘undo’ movement and observe what it does.
This. Especially if reaching backwards upside down behind you, and interfacing with the "wrong" end of the thing.
Left hand threads, triplily so.
My first job was teaching in a prison. At the end of the lesson there'd be a bit of a wait and a chat while the various classes were counted out and back to the wing. One of the first chats, particularly as I was a newbie, was a folks recounting tales of pranks they'd either played on apprentices or had fallen victim to. Taking a fire extinguisher and a note into a bank, being sent to the Chinese Takeaway to buy chicken lips and so on
One guy had been an apprentice in a tyre garage - and on his first day had been sent by the manager to get 'a tyre for the 5th wheel'. Dutifully when round all the various factors and suppliers on the list he'd been given- all of whom were in in the joke and send him on to the next supplier with the request. He was getting more and more anxious and more and more frustrated about the whole thing and finally, seeing he was upset one of the suppliers let on about the joke .... "so I went back and I shot him". And thats why he was there.
I also am over thinking the lefty loosey thing, I’m questioning what is moving left here.
Never seen a volume knob?
Would "turn left" be confusing here?
Your left or my left or the cars left?
What a bizarre question?
Left of car when stood in front looking at it or left when sat in the drivers side. Any clearer?
*Sigh* Offside - the side of the car furthest from the kerb when being driven on the road, or driver’s side, if you must.
Nearside - side of the car closest to the kerb when being driven.
This is not a difficult concept to grasp, anyone who’s actually managed to pass a driving test and pass it successfully should be able to understand it, the car’s orientation doesn’t change it, it’s a fixed concept.
Really…
Think of “leftie loosy, righty tighty”
Until you come across something that unscrews the opposite way; I’m sure, as someone who I assume owns and rides a bike, you’ll have come across such an item.
*Sigh* Offside – the side of the car furthest from the kerb when being driven on the road, or driver’s side, if you must.
Nearside – side of the car closest to the kerb when being driven.
Depends how erratically you're driving
Would “turn left” be confusing here?
No, because there is a dot on the knob that is moving to the left. Even if there weren't, the presence of the gradations on the top gives you a visual direction.
so I went back and I shot him
I'm not doubting this claim, but tbh if I were in prison for I dunno, tax evasion* or something, and I was in a class being taught by someone from outside, I'd say stuff like that just to shit them up.
* note to HMRC spies, I don't really evade tax...
No, because there is a dot on the knob that is moving to the left.
Think of your thumb on your hand that is holding the bolt as the dot on the knob - boom, there you go - one visual reference moving to the left.
Would “turn left” be confusing here?
No, because there is a dot on the knob that is moving to the left. Even if there weren’t, the presence of the gradations on the top gives you a visual direction.
But according to this thread, yes, it would be confusing if you were trying to turn the volume up from behind the volume knob.
At least there you have a dot that does move left or right.
If you are using a spanner and you had your tool hanging down below the axis of rotation, which way does the tip of the tool move?
But according to this thread, yes, it would be confusing if you were trying to turn the volume up from behind the volume knob.
You can't turn the volume knob from behind, but you can and indeed often have to undo bolts from behind.
Think of your thumb on your hand that is holding the bolt as the dot on the knob – boom, there you go – one visual reference moving to the left.
What sort of weird double jointed hands do you have where your thumb ends up at the top of whatever bolt you're turning? 😶
My fingers would be at the top and thumb at the bottom unless I did some heinous yoga move grip....
You can’t turn the volume knob from behind, but you can and indeed often have to undo bolts from behind.
Why not? I often lean over my kitchen work surface to turn the stereo volume up from the wrong side, instead of walking around the island to face it head on.