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20 plus shot, shooter still on run in hijacked vehicle.
Christ.😟
Don't worry, the Whitehouse will sort it all with thoughts and prayers.
Gave up caring a long time ago.
Collectively they've accepted these massacres are the price to pay for keeping their guns. That's their choice. leave them to it. It's not worth getting worked up about
Source? BBC has nothing...
Sky News.
Gave up caring a long time ago.
Collectively they’ve accepted these massacres are the price to pay for keeping their guns. That’s their choice. leave them to it. It’s not worth getting worked up about
Blunt, but...
It's hard to be shocked anymore.
Gave up caring a long time ago.
Collectively they’ve accepted these massacres are the price to pay for keeping their guns. That’s their choice. leave them to it. It’s not worth getting worked up about
Very harsh to say it out loud but so true. Swathes of the country would love change but the gun crew wield an amazing amount of power.
So very sad for the innocent folk.
Rip
So very sad for the innocent folk.
Without a doubt
Yet that horror isn't enough to dissuade the vocal gun lovers. It's pure politics now.
Dead kids etc < votes
Yeah, sorry to say but its hard to be shocked by anything anymore. We're a horrible species that deserves to go extinct, the sooner the better.
Its ****ed up really, poor sods but as above not shocked. I've been there twice NYC and Cali which both felt safe, but I'd not go again it's just to common over there now. Perhaps states like Cali could use there huge monetary power to influence the rest of the county but it would very bold for google, MS, Apple etc to get involved.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/12/bulletproof-backpacks-mass-shootings-sales-spike
Read this after the recent shootings. Sales of bulletproof rucksacks up 300%.
I admire the design and think it's a great idea, however things are messed up when parents are shopping for bulletproof rucksacks to send to school with their children.
Just clicked through to that Midland Police Facebook link up there
According to one local, prayers are the last line of defense in these situations. You can't reason with that kind of mentality
Onzadog
Member
Don’t worry, the Whitehouse will sort it all with thoughts and prayers.
Too early to say that, we don't know what colour they are yet.
sootyandjim
Again, bonkers logic.
They could all but wipe out the cause, but they're so focused on a cure that will never work. They can't be reasoned with on this topic.
The only time I give a shit about yanks killing each other is when they’re killing immigrants.
The rest of the time, SNAFU - let them get on with it. They seem to enjoy it frankly.
'They' is about 330 MILLION individuals.
None of my concern, I’m sure a decent majority of the uncivilised barbarians care little about the plight of those fleeing countries with high violent death rates. Each to their own.
You're sure?
Yup.
The vast majority of Trump voters do not care, a good portion of democrats will not care. I will happily wager the total not giving a shit population at 50 percent or greater of the country.
So yes, I am fairly content to categorise American mass shootings as “shit happens”. I’m sure they have enough thoughts and prayers being distributed by themselves.
I will happily wager the total not giving a shit population at 50 percent or greater of the country.
Without googling, I'd guess it's less. From memory the guns Vs population ratio is 50% but in reality it's much less than 50% of the population that owns multiple guns each. 7 guns average per owner unless I'm mistaken.
So that lot don't give a shit.
On top of that, you'll have neutralish non gun owners that will still see any inteverention by the government on their amendment rights as a disgrace.
Then factor in voting stuff in key states etc, huge lobbying from the NRA etc
We talk about Saudi etc being in the dark ages but in reality the US is really still in the cowboy era in a lot of states
Would you wager your house on it?
Maybe you could confer with one of the bricks beforehand?
Maybe you could learn something from a brick?
🤔
With all that knife crime in London I do hope Dumbojo will come up with a way to get trump to sell us guns so that us good guys can protect ourselves.
From the local news:
A total of 21 people were injured in the shooting and five people were killed.
13 victims were taken to Medical Center Hospital for treatment. One of the victims passed away at the hospital. Another, a baby under the age of two, was transferred to another hospital for treatment.
Of the remaining victims, seven were in critical condition, two people were in serious condition and two were treated and released.
Where was the good guy with the gun?
So from another thread on here, not only are the survivors facing life changing injuries, they will probably be bankrupt after extended treatment in hospital...
I find some things about the US, so fekked up.... its 2020 for heaven sake, not 1720.
Did anyone else read that Grauniad quote as ‘creating bullet-resistant backpacks for the back-to-school shooting season’?
its 2020 for heaven sake,
Oh god, I think I over slept
Collectively they’ve accepted these massacres are the price to pay for keeping their guns.
nearly 70% of Americans don't own guns
nearly 70% of Americans think the gun control should be stricter.
nearly 90% of Americans think that people with mental illness should not be allowed to buy guns
The NRA spent more than $9 million on lobbying and nearly $10 million in just the mid terms and has revenues of £300 million...
but in reality the US is really still in the cowboy era in a lot of states
The "wild west" towns generally had strong gun (and other weapons) control laws in urban areas. The shootout at O.K corral was because the cowboys hadnt handed their guns in when entering town.
I did read that positions on firearms are changing in the USA. May take time but there is a whole generation of kids growing up who have had to regularly practice hiding from gunmen drills and maybe lugging around a backpack stuffed with kevlar as well as books who are concluding that this freedom really isnt worth the reduction in freedom for others to live a happy life.
nearly 90% of Americans think that people with mental illness should not be allowed to buy guns
So over 10% of 'mercans think it's okay for people with mental illness to buy guns? - Now that's bonkers.
Yeah, sorry to say but its hard to be shocked by anything anymore. We’re a horrible species that deserves to go extinct, the sooner the better.
Harsh also but I kind of agree. Humans are the only species in the history of the planet that carries on destroying it.
May take time but there is a whole generation of kids growing up who have had to regularly practice hiding from gunmen drills
I agree with Dave Chapelle on this one. It’s ludicrous considering most school shooters are kids. The person who’ll more than likely do the shooting will be taking part in the drills. It’ll be like a practice run.
I too have no sympathy any more. It’s barely newsworthy at this point.
I don’t think we should get drawn into the White House smokescreen of mental illness. Just what does that mean? It is just a convenient excuse for blame. A person with OCD may well be very very careful with their gun safety, for example.
Edit. If that excuse becomes acceptable, all the authorities will have to do is find some trace of a mental condition, real or contrived by expert opinion and the lack of gun control will continue unquestioned for another cycle.
What have bikes got to do with it? ^^^
nearly 70% of Americans don’t own guns
nearly 70% of Americans think the gun control should be stricter.
nearly 90% of Americans think that people with mental illness should not be allowed to buy guns
The NRA spent more than $9 million on lobbying and nearly $10 million in just the mid terms and has revenues of £300 million…
Depends on how these surveys are conducted and the questions asked. so 70% of citizens agree with stricter gun controls? define stricter controls. Ask that question ten times with ten different examples of how much stricter controls should be and you'll get ten different answers.
90% agree that people with mental illness shouldn't be allowed to buy guns? well of course...if you ask that question outright then I'd expect the overwhelming majority to agree - it's obvious to most people. But again, ask that question with a suggestion of what those additional screening and restriction controls should be and then you'll get a whole host of different answers depending on how it impacts the individuals ability to get guns themselves - it it adds a lot of bureaucracy and delay in them getting hold of guns and ammo then the answer will be different.
So results of surveys are irrelevant without knowing about the context of how the survey was conducted....what questions were asked...the profile of the people asked etc. If there overwhelming support from the majority of US citizens to tackle gun control then why is this not showing in the politics? why do the politicians ignore the overwhelming will of the people? despite the NRA lobbying ultimately if the overwhelming majority of citizens are against it then that shouldn't matter - the lobbying of voters is far more powerful. Politicians ultimately seek power, not money...most have money already. If the majority of people in the country want a certain course of action to be taken the no politician would go against that and risk losing votes and power. This survey doesn't seem to stack up to the reality. And ultimately figures of the NRA's $10 million worth of lobbying is pretty small fry when the typical cost of a presidential campaign is in the billions of dollars, so the paltry NRA lobbying isn't going to swing it if it is really the case that 70% of the citizens genuinely want to tackle the issue of gun control...they're pushing against an open door.
I wonder what a similar survey commissioned by the NRA would say? I suspect it would be very different and towards the other end of the scale. The real answer is likely to be somewhere in the middle of the two which would make it more marginal in terms of the publics support for stricter gun controls....i.e. it isn't really a big political issue and not a big swinger in elections.
Just going back to the GAS breakdown, a proportion of those gun owners will be in favour of tighter gun laws.
The point about the good guy with the gun is a good one, not happened yet. For good reason.
If the majority of people in the country want a certain course of action to be taken the no politician would go against that and risk losing votes and power.
Yeah but no. See Iraq war, no deal brexit etc. Its a nice thought but unfortunately not one that marries up with reality.
In all of these shoots, has the perpetrator ever been shot by anyone other than themselves, or the security services?
What have bikes got to do with it? ^^^
I suspect The daily mail would love to link the two.
A post from the Facebook link....
Andy White last time I was at cinergy there was 3006 and 3007 signs posted at the entrances. Those prevent licensed weapon holders from legally carrying in the building. Good thing law abiding gun owners are obeying the law, so they can’t protect themselves when they need to.
On another note..Will never spend money there again. Like putting fish in a bowl and no where to go with no means of protection. Beau Bess
What a way to live your life
In all of these shoots, has the perpetrator ever been shot by anyone other than themselves, or the security services?
the elephant in the room with the 'good guy with a gun' argument of course is the shooter is counting on getting shot - they wouldn't have the guts to go through with it if they thought they'd come out of it alive. The intended outcome of mass shootings is to end up dead. Good guys with guns whether its the existing police forces, armed teachers or tooled-up passers by does nothing and will do nothing to prevent mass shootings.
It sells more guns though.
What would give potential Murder-Suicide perpetrators real pause for thought is if in events like this the typical outcome is for the shooter to be taken alive
nearly 90% of Americans think that people with mental illness should not be allowed to buy guns
I think most people who want to own guns have a mental illness.
Away tae ****.
That's about the most eloquent response I can muster to such a ridiculous statement. "gun" owners fall into as many segments as bike owners, people own them for a variety of reasons and with proper control precious little of them would consider turning them on another person. As ignorant as it is offensive.
A friend of mine lived in Houston for a bit and he told me about a work colleague who had a gun strapped to the bottom of his bed pointing at the door , if there was an intruder he could just reach under the bed and blast away , the guy had kids . The idea that I would be so scared of intruders that I would have something that could accidentally lead to me shooting one of my kids if they surprised me at night is just something I can’t understand . This mindset about personal protection even if the result is my kid gets accidentally shot , where does it come from ? It can’t just be a hangover from the old west or a result of NRA campaigns.
unfortunatelyI think bob has it right , it’s not that you don’t have sympathy for the victims but if there was no will to do anything about it after sandy hook then it’s hard to see what would spur any meaningful change .
Onzadog
Member
So over 10% of ‘mercans think it’s okay for people with mental illness to buy guns? – Now that’s bonkers.
I have a mental illness, it wouldn't make me any less fit to own a gun. And a pretty large proportion of people with the most dangerous mental illnesses will hide it. Also, this would present a deterrant to people who should seek help but don't want to give up something that they consider to be important. It'd also add a new stigma to mental illness.
It's kind of like when Obama linked it to no-fly lists... Sounds like a good idea on the face of it, til you realise that the no-fly lists were bloody awful and had orders of magnitude more errors and false positives than they had actual people who shouldn't be allowed to fly. Shit's complicated.
The idea that I would be so scared of intruders that I would have something that could accidentally lead to me shooting one of my kids if they surprised me
this one of the paradoxes - a motivation for many is self defence. But if weapons are stored correctly/safely they're not available for that purpose. Making them available makes the risks of harm much greater than any theat you'd face from an intruder
I might as well be the first to post Jim Jeffries' thesis on the subject - starting at around 2.00
This mindset about personal protection even if the result is my kid gets accidentally shot , where does it come from ?
The problem is gum crime is common in the USA. They have lots of guns. Lots of people get killed by people with guns. The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first. So people buy more guns. The criminals get more guns because they need them to shoot other criminals, who have guns and to rob non-criminals, who have guns. Do you see the pattern?
I have worked with a lot of Americans. I am currently in Houston now. In the same State as the shooting, no-one has even mentioned the shooting.
The vast majority, in Texas, own guns. Quite often a lot of guns and huge quantities of ammunition.
I know someone who lives in New Orleans, not the worst part or the best part. He owns a pump action shotgun and a pistol. Purely for self defence. It his honest belief, that if the local criminals knew you had no weapons, they would come into your house and rob you at gunpoint, or worse.
It's a perfect storm of lots of guns, drugs, poverty and massive wealth differential. These random shootings are just the price they have to pay to "defend" themselves.
It's never going to change, the genie is out of the bottle.
gobuchul
Member
The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first.
It's not. Gun crime is high, but you're still more likely to shoot yourself, a family member, or a bystander with your own gun or likewise be the victim of one of these negligent discharges, than you are to be shot by an attacker. And the likelihood of succesfully defending yourself with your own gun is not high- and no wonder, your attacker comes to the scene ready and primed, gun in hand. You are thinking about dinner, or boobs, or something and your gun's not in your hand. And most gun owners never make the effort to become competent with their gun anyway, which is every bit as important as buying it.
So, by owning a gun you increase the risk of being shot with your own gun or shooting the wrong person from 0 to many, and you really don't do much about the risk of being shot by an attacker.
I appreciate that this isn't the thought process people go through- it's totally understandable to be irrational about it, and to want to take control of your destiny and "protect yourself and your family" but in reality it's not really like that. The difference between "common sense" and reality is always a hard one to cross.
It’s not. Gun crime is high, but you’re still more likely to shoot yourself, a family member, or a bystander with your own gun or likewise be the victim of one of these negligent discharges, than you are to be shot by an attacker.
I'm sure you're right. However, my post was written to describe the thought process that creates that mindset.
The other side is that a lot of the gun obsessed Americans I know, would argue that they are very unlikely to have a negligent discharge as they take their "hobby" very seriously. A lot are ex-military who have been trained to handle weapons, others go hunting or to the range frequently. They would argue that it's going to be the doped up criminal or the nervous, middle class dad with his .38 pistol, who will make mistakes.
Just to clarify, I don't think the gun laws in the USA are sensible and that gun ownership is not a problem. It definitely is. I just don't believe it will ever change no matter how many get gunned down.
The other argument I have heard from them is that gun control makes no difference, Anders Behring Breivik was in Norway. They have strict gun controls, didn't stop him murdering 77 people.
I think we'll see more and more mass shootings in the us. Higher numbers killed.. higher frequencies of them. The pressure on law makers will mount but for now they're running with thoughts and prayers successfully.
Desperate.
What annoys me most is the unwillingness to just take the most ridiculous weapons off the table for consumers. thats shit.
Powerful jacinda ardern would see them right.
I think we’ll see more and more mass shootings in the us. Higher numbers killed.. higher frequencies of them
Read this...
https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data
I think the quote was they have had more mass shootings this year than days
What annoys me most is the unwillingness to just take the most ridiculous weapons off the table for consumers. thats shit.
Why does it annoy you?
There are many more people getting killed throughout the rest of the world.
Why do Americans matter - why is it that dead Americans get forum posts all the time, where as others barely register?
Perhaps because it's possible to be annoyed at more than one thing.
The other argument I have heard from them is that gun control makes no difference, Anders Behring Breivik was in Norway. They have strict gun controls, didn’t stop him murdering 77 people.
Possibly the easiest argument in the world to shoot down?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Rayban.. all injustices annoy me. I dont think an American born child is more deserving of being shot in the face than a Mexican child is. That would be pretty weird right?
Perhaps because it’s possible to be annoyed at more than one thing.
Nah. People choose what to get annoyed about, as there is too much shit in the world to care about it all and because most people are simple, they can only empathize if the people suffering look like them. "Oh maiii gawwd white people killing each other - I only thought that happened in bad places."
Then again, it's possible that I just have a really, really, bleak view of my fellow man. But hey.
Youre trying to insinuate that im a racist, trying to put yourself on a pedastal by not caring about innocent victims of mass shootings. Weird.
Take a step back and have a look at yourself.
Not at all Dirka.
I just don't get the UK's obsession with American mass shootings. It's headline news here, where as if someone explodes in a Kabul goat market it's a footnote on a website or something discussed halfway through newsnight.
Agreed,
Can’t really bring myself to be shocked anymore.
You die by your sword.
Of course you do.. its obvious why its newsworthy. Its a totally bonkers situation.
You were suggesting its because we sympathise with Americans more than others because of perceived racial links. Dont be shying away from what you were saying because ive called you out on it.
Of course you do.. its obvious why its newsworthy. Its a totally bonkers situation.
You were suggesting its because we sympathise with Americans more than others because of perceived racial links. Dont be shying away from what you were saying because ive called you out on it.
I'm not suggesting you individually. But yes, that is my gist in terms of wider society.
You die by your sword.
Nice.
Gobuchul:
Lots of people get killed by people with guns. The best way to avoid being shot is to shoot the attacker first.
It’s *a* way to avoid it. I’d assert it’s far from the best way, but the NRA are pretty convinced we should all think it’s the best.
Trouble is that if you accept the premise and start the discussion from there it’s a long and hard road back to a moderate viewpoint. Which is of course why they’re (the NRA) pushing it so hard, and spending so much lobbying $$$ on thoughts and prayers
I just don’t get the UK’s obsession with American mass shootings. It’s headline news here, where as if someone explodes in a Kabul goat market it’s a footnote on a website or something discussed halfway through newsnight.
#specialrelationship
#americanexceptionalism