[Closed] On the baby night shift - singletrack dadsnet

Don't do shifts you're encouraging her to wake up through the night, if she wakes so will you.

Yeah make a batch and heat as needed.

Looong time since I did this, but making a batch in the day and storing in the fridge until needed. It's much easier to warm up quickly than cool then down.

Enjoy the quiet moments when everyone else is fast asleep.

Check the container but with some you have to discard the formula after 2 hours.

We used to pre fill the bottles with cool boiled water and leave those in the fridge.

She's only tiny so we have to feed her every 2-3 hrs at the moment, so I'm staying with her overnight. I only wake her when she's ready and try not to interact too much.

I'm still finding her a bit of a handful whilst trying to mess with bottles at the same time!

What I don't get is, once a bottle is made, it has to be discarded after an hour, or fridged for up to 24hrs. So if I make it up, allow it to cool sufficiently to go in the fridge, then warm it up again, does it then get another whole hour before it has to be discarded!?

And why does it say not to use repeatedly boiled water?

And why do some instructions say boil water and allow to cool for 30 minutes, but others say "no more" than 30 minutes? Can't I just use the just boiled water if i'm cooling the bottle anyway!?

It's a minefield!!

The easy answer is to buy the tommee tippee perfect prep machine. It will make the bottle for you in less than a minute and it will be perfect temp,fresh,clean and above all convenient. It was a god send for us but we had twins so saved even more hassle. It will be the best 70 quid you ever spend.

Yeah, we have been considering that....

In the end you'll realise that babies are actually very hardy things and just use cold water straight from the tap and a 30 second blast in the microwave (for 6oz, 800w microwave, adjust as necessary).

Or get the wife to feed her from her chest, thereby relieving you of all duty!
Congratulations btw Op, I'm not far off joining you, mini-jek #2 due week today, eeek. Wife will be breastfeeding!

Tommee tipee machine x1000

It meant I could wake up, make the bottle and be back asleep within 5 minutes

£70 to save you doing a batch of bottles in the morning? Dear me.

The repeated boiling thing is because salts etc. accumulate and become more concentrated each time you boil the kettle, as some of the water boils off. Not a big hardship to get into the habit of tipping the kettle out before filling and boiling tbh.

If you're worried about leaving made-up formula in the fridge you can always give her premix overnight (which is what some friends of ours did, and what we did when away from home).

Thermos flask with the right temperature water in. I slept on the couch for six months so I got a good nights sleep 🙂

If it's seventy quid you won't miss and it makes things easier for you, then I wouldn't worry too much what anybody else tells you. They all know best. Also, she's 6 days old - just feed her when she's hungry - she doesn't really have any concept for night or day right now and won't recognise any kind of effort to get her into a routine.

For us, best combo was microwave steriliser and boiled water straight into bottles and into fridge. I think we did this four at a time. Make them up as you need them. We didn't go on to formula for around 6 months though, so not really sure how the sequences for newborns differ.

Good luck!

In the end you'll realise that babies are actually very hardy things and just use cold water straight from the tap and a 30 second blast in the microwave (for 6oz, 800w microwave, adjust as necessary).

Drac - health visitors and midwives advise against doing milk in batches so that shouldnt be an option. The hassle of making formula milk is not to be under estimated particularly as babies dont tend to be that patient.

The prep machine is worth the money and more importantly more time with your child/bed rather than standing around a kettle. It took us less than 3 weeks to realise that our life was dominated by water production for milk (twice as much needed for twins). We bought the machine and never looked back.

Is breastfeeding / pumping an option for you? (By you, I mean can your missus express?)

Why do they advise against doing batches?
As long as you are sterilising and using freshly boiled water there should be no Rick of any bugs growing.
We have been doing batches for the last 10 months (thankfully much less so now he is on food)

david47 - Member
In the end you'll realise that babies are actually very hardy things and just use cold water straight from the tap and a 30 second blast in the microwave (for 6oz, 800w microwave, adjust as necessary).

This. The quicker you get here the easier you will make life... Worked for my two, my brothers 4, and each of my sisters two...

I think you have to wait until they're 6 months + before you could use straight tap water and zapping it? Agreed though, it's a minefield. Our first was hard because we were typical first parents and scared of everything we read. Our second was a different story.

Co-slept with both of them. Wife breastfed. So much easier to resettle when you can just BF in the middle of the night.

Tommee tippee percect prep machine x 1000. I can't believe no one else makes one, i'd highly recommend it.

The Tomme Tippee Perfect Prep was great for us. If you are using it a few times a day for over a year it works out at decent value. Especially if it's saving you a few minutes of listening to your little one screaming for a bottle.

Another big thumbs up for tommee tippee perfect prep, just so quick, easy and hassle free which is what you want when you've got a hungry baby. Plenty available second hand around £30 or you could buy new and get half your money back when you sell.

Your learning that for everything you read/hear about childcare, you'll also read/hear the opposite 😀

As has been said, babies are hardy. We used to boil the water and store it. Then make up the bottle and heat it up when needed.

You can now buy cartons of ready to use baby milk. A godsend for when you're out and about. Might be an idea for those night shifts.

The theory - boiling water is not the same as sterilising if. The air in your kitchen isn't sterile either. The formula powder isn't sterile, so basically, from the moment you make up the formula, it is a breeding ground for the bugs that will undoubtedly be present in it. At the kind of Luke-warmy temps that a bottle will cycle through as it is cooled down and then reheated, you could very well be incubating something nasty. NHS, baby formula manufacturers and midwives have to assume the worst case hygiene scenario based on a small number of documented incidents and advise you to make fresh every time.

In practice - babies become more robust very very quickly. Cooling batches of water to store in bottles in the fridge is fairly low-risk. You can buy a little gadget to keep 3 pre-dispensed quantities of powder to hand. The downside of this is that the powder doesn't disperse as well in cold water and there is a small theoretical risk that not putting the powder into 60degree water misses the chance to kill the bugs that may be in it. Once our 3 boys were a few weeks old, we tended to assume the middle ground and make up bottles in 2s or 3s for the night shift. Never a full days worth.

Both of ours were primarily BF but first one had a few issues that meant bottle feeding during the night for first couple of months. Pre mixed cartons were definitely the way to go, bottles sitting sealed in the steriliser ready to go after last feed, milk in and go.

hermos flask with the right temperature water in.

I only wake her when she's ready and try not to interact too much.

WTF? Have I read this wrong? Why are you waking her? Unless you have been told of a specific medical reason you need to do this then let the girl sleep! She will let you know when she is ready.

WTF? Have I read this wrong? Why are you waking her?

We made up batches for 12 hours...fortunately we discovered the boy liked then cool from the fridge....now he turns his nose up at warm milk.

Theyre all different, just use common sense and dont kill yourself trying to do it all "right"

She's now 13 months so feels like years ago.

Mum fed then expressed up until 4 months so I had very little to do with prep.

After she was weaned on to bottles we always had one ready during the day but as said after 2 hrs we made a fresh bottle. For night time we used bottled follow on milk. Open, pour, feed, sleep. Very easy.

She has generally slept from 7 till 6am and dropped the middle the night feed after 8 months. We just wish she would sleep until 7am!

We ignore mums net etc as it's full of contradiction and our health visitors have been hit or miss. They work from a check list which bugged us so we just tuned in to what our daughter wants and make it up as it goes along.

I have had two kids btw. One Bf, one bottle. BF, despite throwing up some challenges along the way, particularly at the beginning, was ultimately far, far easier. Not cheaper though as my wife used it as an excuse to buy load of BF specific clothing.

WTF? Have I read this wrong? Why are you waking her?

When newborn, we were certainly told both times not to just let them sleep, and feed them at regular intervals so would sometimes need to wake them

Mine are 2 and 5 and we weren't told to do this. My wife is the kind to read up on everything we should/should not be doing as well. I am not about to tell anyone to go against what their doctor/midwife/health visitor has told them but we definitely weren't. Having said that ours probably woke that often in any case.

Wake them up to feed?? Never heard such twaddle!! And I am so pleased I was able to breastfeed both of mine, I couldn't be doing with all that fuss and palaver - and expense.

Nah, let the little one sleep. Just as long as the feed is going in over 24 hrs, even if it's in clusters, 8 sittings a day I think for breast. They eventually settle into a routine. You'll be surprised how long they can go without during the night.

Don't pay too much attention to all the advice you'll get given, there's too much of it out there. Remember when going through a bad patch that it will pass, and make the most of it when they are in a good mood. Most of all just enjoy it as it goes quickly - only 5months in here and already the newborn bit feels like a distant memory.

Fed the baby when s/he is hungry, don't get stuck into time slots. Also welcome to the world of parenthood where everyone knows best and they know a different process to everyone else. Also be prepared for umpteen different best practices from the various medical professionals that you talk to.
Best approach...do what you think is right, as long as you are feeding, cleaning, nurturing and letting them sleep then they'll turn out very well.
Saying that, they are far more responsibility than a pet animal and it is normal to be asking how-to to begin with.
All part of the experience...you'll be fine.

I believe the advice is to let them sleep but not go beyond a certain length of time between feeds, so wake IF neccesary. If your baby wakes anyway it isn't an issue and likely wouldn't come up. My daughter often would not wake and the hospital and midwife were very specific about this, however it is only for the first month or so (I think it is until the baby reaches a specific weight).

She was a brilliant sleeper though!

We went with boiling water into a sterile bottle and seal. Then let cool and store in fridge. Heat and add formula as required. Technically you are not meant to microwave but this is due to uneven heating of the liquid so a vigorous shake (which you do when you add the formula anyway) sorts this out. Always check on your wrist though.

The best advice I can give is to go with the flow and don't have too many pre-conceptions about how it is all going to work, just roll with it. We expected my daughter to be breastfed and when this turned out to be impossible it was a huge blow at a time when you are all a bit low.

The reason not to add formula to warm (not hot) water is because of the bugs that can grow in the powder. It is specifically designed to be high in nutrients which is also ideal breading area for bacteria especially when moisture is introduced (such as from condensation on the powder scoop from when you have tipped the power into the steaming water). Adding the power to hot water does a better job of killing any nasties. I am not really one for going overboard on germ killing but tummy bugs with babies are not fun. Days and days (and nights) of explosions from both ends can get tiring pretty quickly.

Back up again now! Thanks for all the tips so far.

The little one was born by emergency C/S and weighs 5lb 11. As she's so little, we've been advised to aim for 2-3 hr feedings and not to let her sleep longer than four. She was only taking 30ml a time, but that's quickly picking up. She had her first full 90ml bottle last night, she can sleep longer after that!!

Breast feeding isn't an option as my better half is still in some pain and has a lot of recovering to do. She's doing great but she doesn't need the pressure of BF. We tried initially and the little one got colostrum and now we're happy to move on from that.

Just made a batch of bottles to go in the fridge for today.

I'm a microbiologist in the real world. I understand the importance of sterility, how bugs work and what they can do. What I don't understand is how sterile fluid in a sterile container is going to somehow poison her in such short spaces of time. That's what so much of the advice makes me feel.

I had to do all feeding for the first 2 months on the last one. My poor wife was suffering with PND after a really hard birth and 3 weeks in special care. Baby was 7 weeks early and cleft pallet. I remember making up batches for the night shift. Couldn't switch off as our little girl had no suck so I had to squeeze the bottle in a gentle rhythm, holding her pretty much upright.
They were some long lonely nights. Fortunately my wife just woke up one morning and was relatively back to normal, much to my and all the kids relief.

What I don't understand is how sterile fluid in a sterile container is going to somehow poison her in such short spaces of time. That's what so much of the advice makes me feel.

We couldn't get our heads round that one, either.

For what it's worth, a week in we were in survival mode with both kids. With #1 it was worse as we had *no* idea what we were doing...

We're 16 months ahead of you and had a C section to after almost 48 hrs of labour. Breastfeeding was hard, extremely hard, but we sight advice from out local breastfeeding clinic and discovered in 5 seconds he was tongue tied. Next day referral for the operation and it was so so so much better after that.
You'll be bombarded with advice but every baby is different. Just do what works for you all and enjoy the little girl while she's tiny, they grow up mighty fast!

Instead of waking to feed you might want to google "dream feeeding". It sounds a bit along the lines of crystal healing, but it worked for ours. Mind you, i think hes got my sleeping genes, short of nuclear war....

Oh and you'll find a lot of baby shizzle is either totally risk averse, or subject to FUD to sell something....

Congrats op.
One thing that made the first few days of parenting difficult for us was all the contradictory advice from every nurse that visited.
We tried to keep to a strict feeding routine,and there were a few stressful evenings....we soon learned to feed him when he wanted fed and to hell with the strict feeding routine.
& fwiw imo,never wake a sleeping baby.

We tried to keep to a strict feeding routine,and there were a few stressful evenings....we soon learned to feed him when he wanted fed and to hell with the strict feeding routine.

IME routine of any kind doesn't really happen until they go into toddlers and have a fixed post-lunch nap.

Still remember the cold terror of waking up at 0500 when #1 spawn unilaterally decided she didn't need a bottle at 0200...

Little miss CD is almost 7 months (how's that possible, where did the time go?!) And is exclusively breast fed as she won't take from the bottle. Makes my life easier but its tough on my wife who doesn't get a break.
Congrats OP, it's challenging to begin with but it's worth in for the smile they give you as you walk in to the room.

Twins due soon, eyeing one of them perfect prep machines¡

WTF? Have I read this wrong? Why are you waking her?

When newborn, we were certainly told both times not to just let them sleep, and feed them at regular intervals so would sometimes need to wake them

We were told that for the first three weeks to be baby led on all fronts. They should be able to eat when they want to eat and sleep when they want to sleep. After three weeks, start to introduce the concept of night and day. So, don't wake them, let them dictate what happens to start with.

Our daughter is two next week and she is awesome.

First of all....we ended up getting the Tommee Tippee machine and it is a god send. Easily one of the best baby kit purchases we have made.
Yes it's expensive for what is effectively a water dispenser. But, we get a lot of use from it...(4/5 times per day for months and months) and it reduces the stress of getting the bottle ready quickly.

Our daughter was also born by c-section after a long induced Labour that wasn't working and causing stress for the baby and for my Wife.
When our daughter was born all she wanted to do was sleep. We were told to feed her every 3 hours and not let her sleep longer than 4 hrs for quite a while as she wasn't putting weight on.
My Wife initially breast fed but it wasn't really working and we swapped to formula after about 4 weeks.

Oh, and we also did the shift thing as she wouldn't sleep unless she was on one of us for quite a while. I think we settled into a 2hr stint pattern through the night which worked quite well for us.

Just do what is right for you. No one can tell you how you should be doing it or what is right for you. Good Luck!

Specialist advice on these things seems to change all the time but what we did with our three was to sterilise all the bottles. Boil and cool the water and refrigerate - for max of 12 hours. As needed then removed from fridge, added formula powder and heated in microwave... Shook very thoroughly and left to stand for two minutes and shook thoroughly again. Test heat and then fed baby.

That way formula is not premixed for long, milk can be warmed quickly and baby stops crying pretty soon!

It's been a while, but both my girls were fine with cold, pre-boiled water.We'd prefill the bottle before going to bed, and had one of those powder dispensers so it just meant tipping the milk in, shaking, and feeding.

Cooled boiled water into sterilised bottles, leave at room temp (usually not more than 12 hrs or so before use). Add formula, feed to baby at room temp. Saves all the hassle of trying to get bottle to the 'right' temperature, especially when out and about. Both our kids survived the bottle stage with this method without any issues.

What I don't understand is how sterile fluid in a sterile container is going to somehow poison her in such short spaces of time. That's what so much of the advice makes me feel.

It isn't. Never heard of health visitors or midwives advising not to do batches only not to do more than you'll use in 24 hours.

Boiling the kettle in the morning takes minutes as does preparing the powder and milk, you're then sorted for the day with no need to buy silly gadgets.

I notice there are several people making bottles with cooled water. Current advice is that powder should be added to boiled water (over 70 degrees) only in order to sterilise the powder itself. However, all your kids are fine!!

Drac - Moderator

...sorted for the day with no need to buy silly gadgets.

I think this is one of those situations where your 'silly gadget' is another persons 'really useful gadget'....

no need to buy silly gadgets.

hi, you must be new here. Let me show you to the threads about bean to cup machines, watches that can receive text messages, and elaborate networked speaker hifi systems 😉

Reading this with interest, less than a month until our first nipper is due to arrive 🙂 Tommee Tippee Perfect Prep is currently on order, a friend of ours had already insisted this was a lifesaver for her!

hi, you must be new here. Let me show you to the threads about bean to cup machines, watches that can receive text messages, and elaborate networked speaker hifi systems

Ah you mean like soup makers and [s]smoothie machines[/s] nutri bullets.

Drac - Moderator

Ah you mean like soup makers and smoothie machines nutri bullets.

No, because they generally get used a few times and then lobbed in a cupboard.

Our Tommee Tippee prep machine has so far been used over 700 times at a rough guess (6 months @ 30 day/month @ 4 bottles per day) and that's probably quite conservative as she normally has 5 bottles in any 24hr period. In fact, it's probably nearer 900 uses so far.....

And.....resale price seems to be quite good, based on when we were looking to buy one. Ours cost £60 and they consistently sell on ebay for about £35 second hand.

Next you'll be telling us that we might as well not bother with a Dirtworker, as your £8 garden sprayer does the job just as well.... 😆

Those Perfect Prep machines are BRILLIANT, yeah I'm sure some people just use gold top from the fridge or make up formula with water from the creek at the bottom of their garden - it'll do 'em good or something but for us it was heaven sent.

If money is a issue (and it is for a lot of new parents suddenly on 1.25 income instead of 2) don't be afraid to look at a second-hand one, filters are cheap (replace for peace of mind as the filter warning light can be spoofed) and they have a semi-self-cleaning mode you can follow). The only downside to them is it's not really practical to keep them in the bedroom, as they've got bloody loud warning beeps and they're very bright.

I have all this to look forward to very soon, Mrs bazhall is 38+6. Been eyeing the prefect prep machine too just in case my wee girl doesn't BF

Those Perfect Prep machines are BRILLIANT, yeah I'm sure some people just use gold top from the fridge or make up formula with water from the creek at the bottom of their garden - it'll do 'em good or something but for us it was heaven sent.

No, I just use a kettle and water from the tap. I can see how that can be conveyant but totally uncessary with it.

Next you'll be telling us that we might as well not bother with a Dirtworker, as your £8 garden sprayer does the job just as well....

£2 watering can.

Not much love for the boob then?? A friend of ours is a midwife and lactation consultant. Seems the UK is very pro formula and not keen to BF?

A ****ing lactation consultant. What the hell is one of those?

A **** lactation consultant. What the hell is one of those?

Someone who comes and helps new mums who are struggling to breastfeed but really want to keep trying. Could you seriously not guess that?

A **** lactation consultant. What the hell is one of those?

For a new mother who is unable to breastfeed and is exhausted/wracked with emotional guilt from trying, they're a godsend.

they're a godsend.

Nah, just another silly gadget don't you think?

Not much love for the boob then?? A friend of ours is a midwife and lactation consultant. Seems the UK is very pro formula and not keen to BF?

FWIW the UK Breastfeeding rate is c.80%, so there is plenty of love for those that can.

How Tenacious....

I meant in general the vibe I got was most were discussing bottles, I just wondered why people here preferred that to breastfeeding. I wasn't telling him to breastfeed, that was your (wrong) interpretation of my comment.

Where do you get your stats from that says it's 80%? I read that UK has one of the lowest BF rates in the world (1 in 200). Admittedly that's a Daily Mail article so hardly a tome of truth but I don't think it's anywhere near the 80% you say.

It worked fine for me and my wife, and our two. I know it's hard. They don't latch, the milk doesn't come in when you want it to, babies are fussy, they crack nipples, and mastitis is no laughing matter. I'm not going to say breast is best and all that garbage as the only thing that's best is what works for you / your wife and your bubs. I'm not pro one thing or another, I can only add my personal experience. It's f***ing hard work.

aphex_2k - Member

Not much love for the boob then?? A friend of ours is a midwife and lactation consultant. Seems the UK is very pro formula and not keen to BF?

Nope. Very pro-breastfeeding in the UK I think.

In our case, my Wife tried for 4 weeks, but our daughter wasn't feeding properly which was resulted in her not putting on enough weight & my Wife getting a very bad case of mastitis which wouldn't clear up along with massive feelings of guilt, that she wasn't a bad mother & that she was not giving our daughter the best start in life...

To be honest, while I can see why all the various health workers etc. recommended she kept at it, I don't think it was the right advice. She persevered & persevered, beating herself up about it, all the time making herself more and more ill.

She stopped trying to breastfeed somewhere around the start of December & her mastitis has only recently cleared up properly, she was in agony for weeks & it has taken a long while to heal.

She still feels bad about it, but since swapping to formula milk the removal of stress was instant, I was able to help with feeds meaning my Wife could get more sleep & our daughter started putting on weight & thriving.

I almost think it's gone a bit too far in the direction of breastfeeding being over-encouraged & mothers made to feel guilty if for whatever reason it doesn't work.
I dread to think how people coped before the days of formula milk to be honest. It must have been pretty terrible for the mothers who didn't get on with breast feeding.

For a new mother who is unable to breastfeed and is exhausted/wracked with emotional guilt from trying, they're a godsend

I'd second that, it is well worth seeing one rather than heading straight for the bottle. Not being judgemental, it is the parents choice, but a lot of people think that breast feeding comes naturally and give up if they can't do it, whereas having a quick lesson can really help mum get the hang of it.

Where do you get your stats from that says it's 80%?

My wife BF both of ours, bar a bit of bottle feeding with #1 in the early days due to various issues but I think my general point was that it didn't feel like the place to be having that discussion, don't know the situation of the OP, he's a few days into parenthood and probably got enough to worry about without opening that can of worms here.

Someone who comes and helps new mums who are struggling to breastfeed but really want to keep trying. Could you seriously not guess that?

Nope only ever heard them called midwives. Some of which have been trained in breast feeding advice in more detail but never that.

natrix - Member

I'd second that, it is well worth seeing one rather than heading straight for the bottle.

I'd third that..... 😉

At one stage my Wife was visiting the breastfeeding clinic probably every other day & they were able to provide great support and advice. I think if we had perhaps gone their sooner, things might have turned out differently but I think for a while my Wife didn't want to admit that things weren't working and she needed help to get things on track.

Until I experienced all this first-hand I thought it was all a load of old nonsense - stick baby on boob & off you go - but it really was an emotional rollercoaster & probably the most stressful part of early parenthood.

UNICEF quote 81% breastfed at birth, 24% at 6 weeks, 17% at 3 months.

But you're right... He's what, 7 days into a new bundle. Enjoy every precious minute of it.

Drac

Lactation Consultants of Great Britain
www.lcgb.org/

LCGB are the professional association for International Board Certified Lactation Consultants in the UK. IBCLC's hold the premier breastfeeding credential.

+1 to both of Stumpy's posts. My wife and i had a hideous experience with our first, wouldn't take to it at all. We had NHS, NCT, La Leche, everyone we could find try and help and nothing worked. After 4 hideous weeks in which I seriously had thoughts of smashing my daughters head against the wall, such was the loathing I had for this whole baby thing, it was finally my mum that threw a paddy and got a bottle into her.

It was like turning a light on. My girl started to thrive, my wife was 'off the hook' as it wasn't her choice in the end and started to enjoy what she'd wanted all her life, to be a proper mother.

The one big issue I had was telling the midwife who'd been so pro-breast, that we were almost scared to tell her what we'd done. But when we did, she admitted she'd thought it was what we should do too. However (and this still boils my piss 12 years on) - she was on a warning from her bosses because she wasn't hitting her breastfeeding targets, and hence felt she couldn't advise us to go to bottles while there was still a chance we'd be a tick in the box for her NHS targets.

You can blame her for her decisions not to advise us properly, you can blame the NHS for setting targets, you could even try blaming us for not perservering (and you might be right, maybe she would have got the hang of it in the end) - but if you do try to blame my wife, be ready to also be on a liquid / bottle fed diet for some time to come.

For a new mother who is unable to breastfeed and is exhausted/wracked with emotional guilt from trying, they're a godsend.

As long as you get a good one. A bad one, is worse than no help at all. YMMV

[for reference, my second took to it from Day 1 no problems and was solely breast fed until she bit one time too many. So we didn't make the target exclusively breast for 12months or whatever it is either]

LCGB are the professional association for International Board Certified Lactation Consultants in the UK. IBCLC's hold the premier breastfeeding credential.

Interesting. Never heard of the term before are they a true profession or a like a chiropractor? Genuine question as its a term I've never heard of.

We had a similar experience to theotherjonv, albeit our BF issues did sort themselves out after a few weeks, and specialist help, which was a life saver. Hospital wouldn't let my wife home as they hadn't seen a suitable latch as yet. After several days and much distress I made the point that I wasn't going to let the kid starve, we had bottles if we needed them, which was all they needed to hear but apparently were unable to make that suggestion themselves! I have some sympathy, I do agree that it's by far the best way and I have certainly seen some friends and family that appear to have given up with little effort to make it work, especially when I see the lengths my wife went to to make it happen, and eventually did. I guess if it wasn't for the stubbornness of the NHS all round we may well have given up ourselves, but both very glad we didn't

Like stumpy (waves), my mrs was suffering with mastitis & struggling to latch etc.
She put herself through a lot of pain, determined to breast feed.
She called in a lactation guru lady and Bob's your uncle,no worries.
I'd liken it to horse whispering for breastfeeding. She basically calmed us all down in one visit....