[Closed] On Friday just under half of the UK will be unhappy

Well, I had a good spirited discussion with my windowcleaner today, he's minded to vote Leave. We parted with a handshake.

Why should you have to mend bridges? It's a democratic country. People have different opinions to you. Discuss them, you might learn something, or you might impart some new information to the other party, or you might both agree to disagree. Whatever it is what it is, you are both people and equals. Get on with it.

Think that's what I meant by building bridges

The people will speak. If anyone doesn't like what they say; tough titty.

you get to say 'I told you so' and 'don't blame me'

which will make up for it, sort of.

you get to say 'I told you so' and 'don't blame me'

I'm already doing that after the Scottish referendum, I'll have to get it permanently printed on a t-shirt or something to save time.

You can talk/ work/ mix with people with different political beliefs you know. I have to interact with tory scum every day but get on just fine with them.

'half the UK will be unhappy'.
You mean of those voting.
Turnout - what 42%?
So maybe 20% of the population will be on the losing side. Of those, I'd say 60+% of them dont really care. 20% will be slightly miffed, 10% will be annoyed that their views are not what the majority are, and the remaining 10% will be noisy and tell everyone that it is a big mistake and we're all going to die, either from an influx of imports and immigrants, or, the economy will collapse overnight, and we'll be appealing to Somalia for food relief within 6 months.
So maybe around 4% of the population will care.
And the rest of us will carry on as normal.

I'm off to France to ride my bike, please have it all sorted out by the time I get back.

So maybe around 4% of the population will care.

And that, there, is why we're in big trouble.

half the UK will be unhappy'.
You mean of those voting

"So maybe around 4% of the population will care."
And that, there, is why we're in big trouble.

I'm not bothered either way with the vote. Both sides are useless in explaining their arguments, but I especially dislike the 'Stay' campaign, as they have not given us good reasons to stay, they have just said "we're going to be destitute if we leave", or at least thats their only argument I've heard.

I cant see us 'being in trouble' however the vote goes, so I'm in the 90+% of the population who thinks whatever happens, nothing much will change.

How do you know it will be "just under half?"

How will the Tory party look?
Surely the split can't heal?

It may well be an excellent opportunity for lots of people to learn the importance of taking their democratic responsibilities seriously.

How will the Tory party look?
Surely the split can't heal?

They go dormant for a while then slowly rebuild their strength. Like Sauron, or Voldemort.

How will the Tory party look?
Surely the split can't heal?

Maybe like the SNP after losing their 'Leave' vote?
The loss doesnt seem to have hurt them at all, even though it was their Ace card. The Tories will be the same, however it goes, it'll carry on as normal, if we leave, Cameron will be out, new Leader will come in, and there will be a new impetus to their campaign, so they'll be in Govm, at the next general election.

If Stay wins, the big mouths like Johnson will be kicked to the sidelines, and treated like lepers, they'll still mouth off, but they'll be irrelevant.

It will be just under half because the polls seem to be swinging just either side of 50% each day.

I'm expecting the turnout to be reasonably high on this - more so than a general election.

If we leave will Farage go away or will Johnson give him a job?

It's all been a rather pleasant bonding experience so far

They go dormant for a while then slowly rebuild their strength. Like Sauron, or Voldemort.

😆

We just need to remember to be excellent to each other.

I'm not bothered either way with the vote. Both sides are useless in explaining their arguments, but I especially dislike the 'Stay' campaign, as they have not given us good reasons to stay, they have just said "we're going to be destitute if we leave", or at least thats their only argument I've heard.

But (and I'm not talking about the arguments here,more about how they can be framed/presented) isn't that almost inevitable, given that we're currently in the EU? So the remain side can't make crazy promises about spending any extra money (which I don't think we'll have) to give everyone a unicorn because we're already in the situation that they want us to stay in. All they can do is point out the losses that they think would be caused by leaving.

It's like if you were a member of sports and social club. They've got football pitches, tennis courts, a cricket pitch and a club bar. You could save your membership fee by no longer being a member. But if someone said "well Dave, you've saved £20 a month, but now you can't go in the bar and you have to pay each time you want to use the sports facilities" you probably wouldn't accuse them of only focusing on the negatives, or use the fact that they've pointed out why you shouldn't leave as a reason [i]to[/i] leave. You've already got the benefits and you're giving them up, all they can say is what you stand to lose.

The people who want you to stay can't make stuff up to get you stay. You won't listen if they say "if you stay as a member then you get to use the club helicopter. Also, the playboy bunnies do naked oil wrestling every Wednesday and Friday night" because you know that the club doesn't have a helicopter and you've been there every Friday night for the last year and haven't seen any playboy bunnies!

But if you're on the side pushing for a 'new' situaion then you can make all kinds of promises. "Join our [b]new [/b]sports club, it's only £10 a month, and it's got oil wrestling three nights a week, with an extra session on a Saturday lunchtime. And the food is Michelin starred. And we'll have a chauffeur to drive you home if you've been drinking. And we'll have a masseuse. And a cinema with free viewings of the latest films. And there's a mountain with an uplift service for trails, you just can't see it yet, but it's there."

I cant see us 'being in trouble' however the vote goes, so I'm in the 90+% of the population who thinks whatever happens, nothing much will change.

I dont think it only 10% of a the population who can understand an argument but you might be right.

I 100% guarantee that if we vore leave that when this happens they will blame Europe for the next 5-10 years for all of this.

How many threads do we need on the EU?

edite:deletedoubletastic

How many threads do we need on the EU?

How many threads do we need on the EU?

<Geeky EU joke>

We should have two, but move back and forth between them every month.

</geeky EU joke>

Balls, you forgot the "Whites Only" sign on the door of the sports club.

<Geeky EU joke>

We should have two, but move back and forth between them every month.

</geeky EU joke>

Good one 🙂

I'm back in-country Friday

I'm assuming the borders won't be closed immediately if it's out.

s****s @bencooper

if we stay in boris will look a failure and loose any chance of being a leader.

if we loose and stay in cameroooon will have to go.

and whatever vote wins a majority of people will be witness to the self destruction of the conservative party

bencooper
bencooper - Member
you get to say 'I told you so' and 'don't blame me'
I'm already doing that after the Scottish referendum, I'll have to get it permanently printed on a t-shirt or something to save time.

Definitely get that t-shirt. If this one goes the wrong way, we will be back to the other one in a couple of years. A mobius loop of referendums. I reckon then for the first time ever I will be in spoiling my vote territory.

STW by Saturday?

[img] [/img]

I cant see us 'being in trouble' however the vote goes, so I'm in the 90+% of the population who thinks whatever happens, nothing much will change.

<Geeky EU joke>

We should have two, but move back and forth between them every month.

</geeky EU joke>

🙂

28 each putting their own point of view

Yup agreed, I could see a Remain vote leaving me with a lot of thinking to do. Campaign on and/or look to a future outside the UK as I forsee a bleak future pre/post Greekmdefault and eurozone implosion

For me the choice is between two very poor options . I will vote but neither side will make me happy or unhappy.

I'm not bothered either way with the vote. Both sides are useless in explaining their arguments, but I especially dislike the 'Stay' campaign, as they have not given us good reasons to stay, they have just said "we're going to be destitute if we leave", or at least thats their only argument I've heard.

For those of you who think the stay campaign haven't made a good case, watch this: https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16/watch-dishonesty-industrial-scale-eu-law-expert-analyses-referendum-debate/

I'm sure someone who supports the leave campaign will be able to post up a similar video (or perhaps a picture of British Bulldog).

AD thats been posted twice and discussed on the EU thread, also the "rukes" of this thread is leave/remain only or Drac will close it again

Mods - no issues if you delete my post. Only added it as a response to the comments that people hadn't seen any good arguments to stay (or leave for that matter)

I don't live in Scotland at the moment but many family members do and most voted to stay part of the UK. They have all commented that even though the majority (just) voted the same way as them they felt ostracised and 'bullied' during and immediately after the referendum. I'm not convinced Scotland has got over it yet.

I don't think the EU debate will be quite so divisive though mainly because the history of the EU is not as long as that of the UK and the subtle nuances and the change it will make are barely understood by most. Most of us are basing our decision on the opinion of 'experts' we trust at the more educated end of the decision making making process and a 'I don't like foreigners' vs 'package holidays in Spain are ace' thought process and the guttural end of the spectrum. In the Scottish referendum I think most held pretty heart felt beliefs one way or the other.

I am looking forward to watching the conservatives implode with the fallout whichever way it goes though 😈

Whatever the result look after yourself.

Be happy and prepare for the future coz there is nothing much you can do either way.

Rome or no Rome that is the nature of things.

😛

Do you think that whoever loses will all start walking around wearing badges saying "I am one of the 45%" and demanding another referendum in 12-18 months time?

I don't live in Scotland at the moment but many family members do and most voted to stay part of the UK.

what do you think the Scottish reaction would be if we vote for Brexit and Scotland - which I take it wants to remain in the EU - risks being dragged out against its will? Another referendum?

Bit concerned about whether we could end up heading towards the break-up of the UK 😕

It could be a good solution.

Scotland wants to remain part of EU without the hassle of having to re-apply, they also want to keep the UK's unique ability to retain the pound rather than join the Euro, which they would have had to do if they reapplied after independence,

So, new referendum, England and Wales leave the UK, and Scotland can remain the successor state and retain EU membership.

Best bit is that they inherit all our debts too, perfect 😀

A remain vote will definitely see us leaving the UK. We have a PR Aussie visa and I'll be looking to get a job as soon as daughter has finished GCSEs.

I'll also feel very sad.

We should just build concentration camps to put the losers in , this way they can....oh wait a minute

A remain vote will definitely see us leaving the UK

That's an amazingly extreme personal response to the status quo. I'm all up for the concept of people choosing to leave the UK but the EU as a trigger is surprising. What is it specifically about a UK in the EU that makes you think you'll leave whilst a UK out of the EU doesn't?

Bit concerned about whether we could end up heading towards the break-up of the UK

I think we can probably take it as a given.

Still... at least to get out of the sinking ship that will be a horribly nationalistic Engerland (for that is what it'll surely be renamed) I won't have to move too far. Every cloud.... 😀

what do you think the Scottish reaction would be if we vote for Brexit and Scotland - which I take it wants to remain in the EU - risks being dragged out against its will? Another referendum?

This was brought up on R4 last week (Any Questions IIRC).
There will not be another Referendum in Scotland.
If the UK vote to leave the EU, Scotland have got virtually no chance of re-entry into it after leaving. On their own, they are stuffed, the economy cannot survive on it's own, they'll have to implement extra EU rules for new entrants and accept the Euro as their currency.

Basically, it isnt going to happen, as there are too many hurdles for Scotland to get over before EU entry on their own.

Also, the SNP would not even try for a new Referendum until the oil price has gone up a lot more than the current price - their budget relied on oil revenues, which have dropped by 25%+ in the last 2 years, and with shale gas production coming, crude oil prices may stay low for a long time.

Bit concerned about whether we could end up heading towards the break-up of the UK

Why wales is just a shithole drain on the economy

The scotish have figured out that england is also a shithole drain on the economy

The irish have figured out they would rather return to blowing each other up again

The only concern for the scot's now will be if those dumb english people all try moving to scotland to escape the shithole that is London

'England and Wales leave the UK' why the f=== would we want to stay with the English!! As has been pointed out the whole Brexit project is a Tory / English national thing. The last link sum up why im voting to remain.

https://leftfootforward.org/2016/06/plaid-cymru-wales-outside-eu-will-be-at-the-mercy-of-westminister-elite/

Get over yourself and drop your racial prejudice Nipper - polling in Wales shows consistently shows its neck and neck

http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2016/04/29/all-eu-referendum-polls-in-wales/

[img] [/img]

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2015/02/02/6-grand-illusions

why the f=== would we want to stay with the English!!

im voting to remain.

Nothing prejudiced about wanting the best for your country Ninfan and that interest is best served for Wales by remaining within the EU as it is a brake on the worst excesses of the English/Westminster government which continually demonstrates a substantial degree of bigotry and intolerance toward the Welsh nation. We benefit at present from a weak Tory government held in check in no small measure by the SNP MPs - if they weren't there..........

And by way of very recent example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36490467

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/18/england-eu-referendum-brexit?CMP=twt_gu&utm_content=bufferc1d9f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer ]I thought this article in the Guardian was interesting.[/url]

There's a lot of BS from both sides, and just like the Scottish Referendum the Project Fear tactics are in full swing.

However Project Fear worked there, possibly with the useful assistance of some postal votes, so I expect the Remain campaign will win again.

And by way of very recent example:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36490467

Welsh language not allowed in Westminster debates.
That isnt an handicap to any current MP's, and it says they will look into providing translators if there is a need. There isnt currently.
Thats hardly the 'English' Government showing bigotry to the Welsh is it?

Your point makes no sense Nipper

You claimed that "the whole Brexit project is a Tory / English national thing" - Which the polls quite clearly don't support, since support for both is pretty evenly split

You then claimed that national interest is "best served for Wales by remaining within the EU" - Which, again, is opinion, not fact, and the posts suggest that its pretty evenly split on this

Then you claimed that proceedings in the houses of Parliament being carried out in English is somehow "bigotry and intolerance" despite an acceptance that everyone actually involved could speak English not all Welsh people speaking Welsh and an agreement that is anyone couldn't speak English, they would revisit the decision.

Your post seems to sum up all the worst of ship on their shoulder "80 minute nationalists" who are unable to recognise the difference between "What I think is right for everyone else" and "What everyone else thinks is right"

Well done Ninfan, you have just proved my point. I don't believe I have a ship on my shoulder either.

Ah, so the fact that I disagree with you and proved your points wrong is just further proof on the oppression the the Welsh as a race

No doubt autocorrect is part of the conspiracy as well (Probably why it doesn't like me typing ff or ll)

Have you burnt down any holiday cottages recently?

Not in the last week or two Ninfan.

And FWIW you have proved nothing just provided other less valid opinions to mine.

I think there will be a massive turnout. The GE is just anyone who can be bothered to chose the least repellent git..and if your anti a "safeseat"mp then what's the point

This is a real choice with real impact.. Im voting for the second time in 40 years.

This is a real choice with real impact..

Even if we vote leave, the impact will be nothing like people expect, just as many non whites in the UK and a major recession to boot....

Mash nails it
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/ordinary-workers-unsure-whether-theyd-rather-be-fked-over-in-or-out-of-the-eu-20160620109646

Quite possibly the most accurate forecast you'll see 😉

“At the end of the week I have barely enough money to pay my rent, while the bosses of the corporation that employs me get on private jets and fly somewhere peaceful to eat lobsters the size of labradors.

“If we vote ‘leave’, pretty much the same thing is going to happen. It’s an exciting time.”

Retail worker Nikki Hollis said: “Last week loads of my friends got laid off because of ’tough trading conditions’ and I found out I wasn’t getting a pension because my boss needs the money for his divorce.

“There’s nothing I can do about any of this because I went to a state school and am not allowed to have hopes and dreams.

“Can’t wait to see what happens on Thursday.”