You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
One of my relatives is prime target audience for this outlet. They've never been the cheery type, but become a bit grumpier the past few years, occasionally complaining or making remarks about things that can't be their own observations. They've never been into news or current affairs, never spoke about politics, yet now watch this channel on TV and follow it on Facebook. God knows what else the algorithm is feeding them. So I'm a bit concerned they've been roped in by this and it being a contributing factor to the grumpiness and remarks. They're not yet retired and still have their mind. I remember the time when it was them complaining about their old parent being wound up by "that News of The World rag".
I considered whether this is my business, and yes it is. They're quite the stubborn type, proud and strong, won't talk about soft things or show emotion. So naive approaches are just going to get them entrenched and will stop listening to me completely.
Regarding the key issues of the day, I'd guess that they were anti-EU, then pro-Brexit, now disappointed by how it turned out, anti-Labour and anti-Tory for predictable reasons, not into Covid/lockdown/vaccine conspiracies thankfully. They wouldn't be moved on that by me, but I don't think they need to be consuming this stuff on a daily basis. I'm thinking they'd be better with some less poisonous news that they still identify with, something that isn't Guardian/BBC but isn't GB News/Daily Mail either.
Any similar experiences?
So your concerned because your relatives had a view on Brexit shared by the majority of the population?
No. I didn't say I was concerned about that, and I did say I won't try to move their positions.
Ultimately, it's confirmation bias in action, and the want to believe that there are simple solutions to complex problems. Solutions that don't involve them needing to change or to compromise.
The hard of thinking lap it up
A recent referendum proved the majority of voters are idiots, especially in the English Shires.
Is the problem the op's relatives or the fact thet something like GB News is able to polute the lanscape with lies and still call itself a news channel?
Just watched a documentary about George Orwell, I wonder what he wpuld have made of GB News, which seems to be replacing the faux journalists with politicians on an almost daily basis.
Orweĺl would have probably compared GB News to 1930's Germany.
So your concerned because your relatives had a view on Brexit shared by the majority of the population?
Most people did not vote for Brexit.
So your concerned because your relatives had a view on Brexit shared by the majority of the population?
By a very small majority, 52% against 48%. Almost equal numbers. If certain politicians hadn’t lied through their teeth all through their campaigns, with the connivance of the Russians, it’s pretty much a certainty that we would still be in the Union.
So your concerned because your relatives had a view on Brexit shared by the majority of the population?
"you're"
If you want to live here, you really should make an effort to learn the language.
By a very small majority, 52% against 48%. Almost equal numbers.
The split of people who voted for, voted against, didn't vote, and couldn't vote are as close to 25% apiece as makes no statistical odds. But we've flogged that particular horse to cat food and Evo-Stik by now.
If you try and change their viewing habit it does feel a bit like telling people what to do, but that's what these excuses for "news" outlets do so I think its fair game. The channel is toxic. The MiL is a telegraph reader and we regularly have a pop at that. In a quite light hearted way, but I think the message is getting across.
My dad has gone a similar way but in the other direction.
**** me don't get him started on social injustice and the NHS (that to be fair has dealt with 2 cancers and a heart rebuild of a very fit man so might be a bit protective of it). He's actually gone in for counseling to address how worked it all makes him! Basically thinks the tangerine dream should have been shot on day one. Strongly for most of the Tory party to be in prison. He also wants to complete all the Scottish park runs and was exclaiming the virtues of members of the public being allowed to join the prison park runs 😂.
It's actually quite hard to argue against him because his points are perfectly reasonable in my view but he doesn't need to get so worked up about it.
I directed my dad to it. I've actually no idea on his voting habits, he probably doesn't these days.
I would rather he got his news from GB news rather than the state sponsored mouthpiece that is the BBC.
They’ve never been into news or current affairs, never spoke about politics, yet now watch this channel on TV
It's the curse of 'opinions'. By nature we're very quick to form opinions and we have opinions about things first before we have any real information about them. But while people can form opinions very easily once they have an opinion about a thing/place/person they put more effort into defending or justifying their position than into learning, observing, reviewing or challenging it.
It happens at every level - overcoming opinion, bias, expectation and seeing things for what they really are is one of the biggest challenges in science, medicine, public policy - The Basement Tapes are a particulary stark example - possibly the best evidence we're likely to ever have on the relationship between diet and health that the author just shelved because the outcome didn't fit his (or our) ideas of what good food should be. Overcoming bias is something lots of people try and work very hard at but for the large part fail to actually do.
If you want to exploit this is very easy - just give people the opinion first and the facts later. Big bold headline, provocative first couple of paragraphs , the truth somewhere in the last few sentences. Increasingly stories are presented as 'sided' and theres an encouragement of the viewer/reader to take a side first, read the story second.
All GB news is doing is not really bothering with that last bit in that very little 'news' features in their content - its mostly opinion pieces with a ticker tape of news headings scrolling across the bottom of screen. 'News' is discussed, not by actually bringing facts into the discussion, but by presenters and guests stating their position and then defending it (usually against no-one other that the unseen forces of ...something or other)
Really all thats happening is people are being flattered. While what we should all be doing is trying to put our opinions / biases / suspicions to one side - they're our Achilles heal - channels like GB are congratulating people for having them. Well done you for knowing your own mind. New topic emerges in public debate - deliver that story as having a right side and a wrong side - make it clear what side you're supposed to be on - congratulate you for having known that all along, if only everyone was like you the world would be a better place.
daveylad
Free Member
I directed my dad to it. I’ve actually no idea on his voting habits, he probably doesn’t these days.
I would rather he got his news from GB news rather than the state sponsored mouthpiece that is the BBC.
Hang on, I thought you hated the BBC for being to left wing, face nappies etc.
Hang on, I thought you hated the BBC for being to left wing, face nappies etc.
Maybe they think the government are too left wing as well.
I directed my dad to it. I’ve actually no idea on his voting habits, he probably doesn’t these days.
He said “Son, shut up and go and finish your homework or I won’t let you on the internet later“
FTFY
maccruiskeen +1
I've a mother in law who is an avid Daily Mail reader. If definitely 'flatters' some of her reactions, but when you actually discuss things with her, she often sees a different view and is happy to reflect on things. But she continues to quote DM regularly as fact and her view...
It’s the curse of ‘opinions’.
And people are fed those opinions and they probably don't really realise it's happening. I was reading This front page whilst stood in the queue at the shop yesterday, how they feel it's really worth so much prime space I don't know, but it's just planting the frothing opinion directly into the mouth of the reader to be repeated. The language around it is so unnecessary, just report what's happening and let the reader decide, but no.... It has to be decided for you.
Maybe they think the government are too left wing as well.
Good point. Silly me. Bloody socialists pretending to be hard nosed selfish ****s. Gets me every time.
. I was reading This front page whilst stood in the queue at the shop yesterday, how they feel it’s really worth so much prime space I don’t know, but it’s just planting the frothing opinion directly into the mouth of the reader to be repeated.
I totally agree with the sentiments behind your comment, and that front page did make me chuckle.
However human nature is such that many people positive love being fed stuff to get ridiculously worked up about, it seems to fulfill a need. Just look at some of the political threads on STW for evidence of that.
It's an interest in politics, which is a good thing. I have family who, IMV, have been seduced by populism (e.g. Farage) but it means that they care about issues. I see it as an invitation for reasoned debate, but also to have my own views challenged. On media, not easy. Sky news for middling centre ground?
My Mum has started getting a lot of her news from the Telegraph - I think she got some sort of online "one month access for £1" type deal and now it keeps popping up news stories on her phone.
Not as bad as the Daily Mail or GB News but it's not far off. 🙁
Is the problem the op’s relatives or the fact thet something like GB News is able to polute the lanscape with lies and still call itself a news channel?
Presumably they see it as a replacement for BBC News. I don't think they'd be looking for more anti-whatever content, more avoiding the leftie/woke/diversity etc. stuff.
If you try and change their viewing habit it does feel a bit like telling people what to do, but that’s what these excuses for “news” outlets do so I think its fair game. The channel is toxic. The MiL is a telegraph reader and we regularly have a pop at that. In a quite light hearted way, but I think the message is getting across.
I think getting them to realise it's toxic windup material is the thing. They wouldn't be seen with The Sun or News of the World, so perhaps equating GBN to those if the opportunity comes up to do it light heartedly.
My dad has gone a similar way but in the other direction.
...
It’s actually quite hard to argue against him because his points are perfectly reasonable in my view but he doesn’t need to get so worked up about it.
This is the thing, have opinions, but I don't like seeing them being wound up and roped in.
Sky news for middling centre ground?
I'll have a look at it. I see it's on freeview too so is an option.
GB News is like Fox News, it is not a news channel, it’s an entertainment channel cosplaying as a news channel.
And like Faux News, it deliberately lies to its viewers, in such a way that it fits their own narrative and is believable as a result.
Fox news took a couple of decades to reach full on nut job. It put its' audience in the pan and gently warmed them up to boiling point.
The initial failure of GB News was due to them throwing the audience into a hot frying pan. Their response has been to hire politicians to replace journalists, something even Fox News hasn't done.
By virtue of them being politicians they have a very high visibility, so in effect it becomes free advertising for the channel.
For context, it would be like Fox news having Marjorie Traitor Green, Lauren Boebert and Matt Gaetz as their flagship presenters, (where GB News has Farage, JRM and Nadine Dorries).
It’s an interest in politics, which is a good thing. I have family who, IMV, have been seduced by populism (e.g. Farage) but it means that they care about issues.
The problem is they end up 'caring' about totally fictitious issues e.g. the country being overrun by immigrants who are given the best council houses and 2000" flat screen TVs as soon as they land etc. This is exactly how the 3rd Riech rose to power in the 1930s, pick a minority group, isolate and blame them for all the country's ills and then offer a solution (Brexit, Rwanda, Gas chambers, etc).
The real issues, eg we don't pay enough tax to fund proper services, never get mentioned.
Presumably they see it as a replacement for BBC News. I don’t think they’d be looking for more anti-whatever content, more avoiding the leftie/woke/diversity etc. stuff.
My parents switched to Sky News for this reason, I don't think they've discovered GB News yet!
Brexit, Rwanda, Gas chambers, etc
And try telling them that brexit will lead to gas chambers....... they won't listen!
Presumably they see it as a replacement for BBC News. I don’t think they’d be looking for more anti-whatever content, more avoiding the leftie/woke/diversity etc. stuff.
BBC is about as centrist as media gets. Mind you (at least the UK one) Sky News is about the same.
If they're generally about avoiding leftie woke diversity then moving to the right of the BBC is simply moving to a right wing source full stop.
GBNews is making a £30million a year loss
Its obviously got an agenda and theres a lot of people very easily led & vulnerable to what its pushing
Its backers- Dubai based Legatum foundation funds it, they have a lot of ties with Vote Leave and Matthew Elliot (the guy that funneled lots of Russian cash in to the Tory party) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/21/mi5-refused-to-investigate-russian-spys-links-to-tories-says-whistleblower
& the founder Christopher Chandler made his fortune in Russia and was identified as a Russian asset by several intelligence agencies https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/01/christopher-chandler-founder-of-pro-brexit-thinktank-has-link-with-russian-intelligence-mp-says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum_Institute
BBC is about as centrist as media gets.
Not really. Its takes its "neutrality" from the midpoint of print media
Its establishment / status quo biased with a tinge of right wing
they also do a false equivalence in pursuit of neutrality so vote leave lies got the same uncritical airtime as remain did
To help the OP
1) My dad had a mate who was a retired copper. This mate started to become more and more miserable and angry and right wing (my dad is a bit right wing too) so my dad simply told his mate what a miserable grumpy old so and so he was becoming and suggested he stopped reading the Daily Mail. He didn't mention his views at all, just how negative and unhappy he was. The mate then changed his paper and started to return from the dark side.
2) My dad (again) was also slipping more and more down the brexit / immigration sink hole so i questioned him on his apparent Christian beliefs (regular church goer) and the lack of love and empathy he was showing. The classic "what would Jesus do?" argument. He soon realised Jesus would not have come up with the Rwanda plan and started to soften and show a bit more compassion.
similar conversation with my elderly uncle who was railing against "wokery", I told him I preferred it when we used to call it Christian decency and he sort of did a double take. No rants recently, although he still reads the Telegraph
GBNews is making a £30million a year loss
Though it probably has value to some as part of a system that keeps some people wealthy or in power and it's replacing newspapers that do the same as they decline. Same old blame game distraction techniques.
It’s the curse of ‘opinions’. By nature we’re very quick to form opinions and we have opinions about things first before we have any real information about them.
A theme in some books loosely about eastern religion is that we just don't need to have opinions on everything, we can't. But we're also conditioned to have an answer, to want to be seen as knowledgeable on many subjects. There's learned and earned opinions that most of us will have on a fairly small range of subjects and there's the humility to be able to say we don't know, or just to observe and not judge. I do think being able to do that is an important part of being happy and it goes back to a smaller, more localised society way of being before pretty much everything that ever happened or was written was available through a portable screen. It's double-edged, ignorance is not bliss for a society either. Having a filter to deal with online info volumes and ranges might mean unlearning thought patterns or instincts that were meant to help us in those older smaller societies, we've not mentally adapted to the world of media yet and it may be harder for older folk.
Right wing comes with age and worldly experience.
It will happen to you all one day!
Mum sometimes comes out with stuff that can only be from the news
Is the problem the op’s relatives or the fact thet something like GB News is able to polute the lanscape with lies and still call itself a news channel?
This an issue. The bigger issue though is the apparent loss of critical thinking form the general population. Too few people question what they read/hear/view.
I suspect I could pinch my nose and read the Daily Mail for a year and still not believe a word of what they say. However lots of their readers take it as gospel.
Right wing comes with age and worldly experience.
It will happen to you all one day!
Nope. I'm 62 and the right wing disgust me. My parents are late 80s and have never voted tory
right wing only comes to those who lack critical thinking
Bbc lost it's integrity around the time of the brexit vote when it succumbed to the false equivalence narrative.
Specifically with regards to the economy. When they approached industrialists and business leaders for their insight they could find hardly any who thought it was a good idea. That's why that Muppet from Wetherspoons got so much airtime.
The opinion of a man who ran a pub was given equal weight but massively more exposue than the opinions of people who actually knew what they were talking about (and actually have to trade internationally). All in the interest of being 'fair and ballanced'.
The BBC is no longer the nations trusted news provider by the way, ITV took that crown sometime last year and I can only assume that gap has widened in the meantime.
Right wing comes with age and worldly experience.
It will happen to you all one day
Usually the "worldy experience" where you have actually seen little of the world, just read about it and got scared by the stories in the Mail...
I am lucky enough to be quite well travelled, including having served in various conflicts, and then as a travel operator throughout africa and elsewhere, i'd like to think it adds to my ability to see a rounded view on things.
I tend to find those that have a Facebook profile saying they attended "the school of hard knocks" or quote LBC radio / GB News, are those that think Spain is a far flung place... that does a nice fry-up, are the ones that seem to then be able to comment on the rest of the worlds actions.
There’s learned and earned opinions that most of us will have on a fairly small range of subjects and there’s the humility to be able to say we don’t know, or just to observe and not judge. I do think being able to do that is an important part of being happy
The 'being happy' is the issue though. Being happy isnt really all that thrilling. What sells is disgust. People are really thrilled by disgust and thats what a lot of the press pedal - disgust.
Its something that social media has acclerated - think back to when you could only 'like' something in Facebook - then a range of emotions were made available - like, love, surprise, sad and angry. They actually carry a score from 1-5 and the more sad or angry the higher the score - the more engaged you're seen to be and the more of that content will get fed to you. Liking stuff - being broadly approving something - doesnt drive engagement - people will click and scroll far more in search of more to disgusted by. Papers are sold the same way and pretty much always have been - Not that long ago the Express had a full page front page headline that just said "IT JUST GOT WORSE" - it didnt really matter to say what had gotten worse in order to sell the paper that day. People love to be disgusted and they love to judge others to be disgusting. Being happy isnt really energising enough. Spite is probably the biggest motivating factor in many peoples lives, choices and decisions and its a very powerful thing to be able harness in others.
Bbc lost it’s integrity around the time of the brexit vote when it succumbed to the false equivalence narrative.
I won't disagree with that.
Are they still making this systemic mistake though?
Its something that social media has acclerated
Yeah, Facebook monetised anger very effectively somewhen around 2010.
Algorithm promotes "you won't believe how angry this makes you" stuff = more anger.
More anger = more time on Facebook.
More time on Facebook = more ads being looked at.
More ads being looked at = more moneh for Facebook.
Prior to that their shitbaggery was generally limited to selling your data (because you ticked a box where one of the seven thousand lines of smallprint said "all your stuff belongs to us").
right wing only comes to those who lack critical thinking
That's not true and a lazy thing to say. You're confusing your disgust of right wing policies with your inability to understand them. Many right wing policies are well thought through and logical, achieving the goal that was intended.
Assuming the right wing are mindless idiots is dangerous. It's the same on the left though, there are plenty of people who subscribe to that general outlook on life that will uncritically go along with whatever is said with no deeper insight to what is really going on. There's also a whole load of nuance, someone can be quite right wing economically but quite left wing when it comes to peoples rights and freedom of expression.
Lazy people lack critical thinking, their political allegiances don't dictate their ability to think.
Right wing comes with age and worldly experience.
It will happen to you all one day!
Funny that, all those i know who are aging and actually gaining experience are moving left.
Those who are aging and re-learning the same shit year after year are moving right.
FWIW, my mums best mate started sending links to GBNew clips and various other hate groups on FB (Britain first and the like). My mums only response is to a) report the article as hate speech and b) ask her mate for independent sources to prove the accuracy of the article.
They don't talk anymore.
Economics provide a second and rather different aspect to politics; vs social aspect of politics.
There’s also a whole load of nuance
Bears repeating, a number of times.
Right wing comes with age and worldly experience.
It will happen to you all one day
This is the "there are no atheists in foxholes" argument, isn't it. It is, of course, abject nonsense. But it is disrespectful and frankly dangerous nonsense because it carries a subtle subtext saying that you can't possibly not agree with me, not really.
The only way I'm going to find god or turn into a racist when on my deathbed is if it comes with a side order of senile dementia.
Lazy people lack critical thinking, their political allegiances don’t dictate their ability to think.
This may be true, but the last few years have consistently demonstrated a fairly strong correlation.
My mums only response is to a) report the article as hate speech and b) ask her mate for independent sources to prove the accuracy of the article.
Could I be adopted please?
This may be true, but the last few years have consistently demonstrated a fairly strong correlation.
Yeah but correlation does not prove causation
There’s also a whole load of nuance
There was a very interesting study which showed that voters with a particular focus on a policy (policing, immigration, education whatever ) were more likely to assume that their party of choice aligns with their own views on that policy, regardless of whether the party actually does or not. It's also true of voters that the satisfaction of performance of their chosen party increases if they enact policies that they agree with regardless whether those policies are left or right wing.
So left wing voters with strong view on say; severe punishments for crime like harsher or longer sentences (generally a right wing policy) are happier with left wing governments that enact them.
The ‘being happy’ is the issue though. Being happy isnt really all that thrilling. What sells is disgust. People are really thrilled by disgust and thats what a lot of the press pedal – disgust.
Probably true. I feel sad for the people that's true of though. It's where I think other cultures seem to have a better concept of how to mange their mind/ego/inner voices (not sure of the right term there) than we do generally. We don't need to be thrilled by disgust and emotive content like that do we, it's just filling a void left by a lack of something else. Maybe when I said 'happy' I should have said content or an internal ease of sorts. The mindset where the divisive stuff the algorithms prompt is ineffective or you have a good barrier for it. I'm not saying it doesn't effect me at all personally but it doesn't draw me in (too much.. ha), I think an awareness of how 'we are not our thoughts' and how we can try to manage what our mind produces is to thank for that. Or, 'pick your battles', don't try to engage on everything that seems worth fighting for?
Summed up by something along the lines of 'let go of your ego'.
Best of luck getting the children of the land to take any notice...
I think @Jameso is right.
I feel a lot more contented since i stopped using Twitter and the like, and tend to just skim the news occasionally,i find that Twitter is just a sounding board of people you select to follow and who mirror your opinions, and found that after Brexit i found myself quite down reading the news in full.
I think that the current news model seems to be always create a "them and us" attitude, you can't just be a moderate anymore, it has be woke vs right, cyclists vs drivers etc, when 99% of the time, the truth lies in the middle.Even local news websites seem to be the worst, all clickbait and no content.
Stumpyjon
the right wing policies may be "well thought out" but for anyone to vote for them does show a lack of critical thinking as 1) the tory party only exist to concentrate power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy and
2) any analysis of their policies makes this obvious
The tories rely on appealing to base instincts of people not on those folk who can actually think what the consequences of their polices are
tory policy always makes life worse for the majority of the population, Only folk who lack the ability ie critical thinking would support them unless they are in the top few %
See brexit for example where a right wing group persuaded so many folk to vote for something that would damage them greatly
Only folk who lack the ability ie critical thinking would support them unless they are in the few %
I don't fully disagree with you, but also some people are either more trusting than they should be or see a politician / official in a suit and give what they say more credibility. People are being sold to and conned and I can't blame them all for that. 50% of the population are below average intelligence so there's a large base for them to exploit. And I know people much smarter than me who voted leave on trust in what they were told. We'd hope the tories have a limited run at this before they're seen for what they are but then the same kind of thing will come from someone else. I remember thinking Labour were untrustworthy too at one point, WMDs etc.
Education level is a good indication of how folk will vote
The highest level of education someone has achieved remains an important dividing line in how people vote. Labour did much better than the Conservatives amongst those who have a degree or higher, by 43% to 29%.
The Liberal Democrats also performed very well amongst this group with 17% of the vote share.
Assuming the right wing are mindless idiots is dangerous.
The puppet masters are smart, those who stand to make (huge) fortunes, also.
The rest of them, politicians, fans, voters, not so much.
Many of them are also socio and psychopaths.