[Closed] Old chestnut: Mac or PC laptop

It also has a sensible selection of ports, so none of the dongle nonsense alluded to earlier. I can see Mac's benefit of thunderbolt only in years to come

Yeah - most places I go the projectors in meeting rooms are still VGA.

Do you actually know anything about how Adobe software works on a Mac? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

So how does Adobe software work then?

To all intents and purposes Molls, it's effectively witchcraft

Are the tablet versions cut-down?

They must be. The screen isn't as tall

I use Parallels VM and have Windows 10 on a desktop on my MBP. It swipes between operating systems with the same ease as swiping between apps.

Colleague at work has this, it's mightily impressive. But it does beg the question, why would you need to if MacOS is so great? I can count the number of Windows users who felt the need to dual-boot / parallel install MacOS on the fingers of one foot.

I use VMware to run Linux desktops, and it's not perfect. Reduces battery life by 30-40% at a guess.

Are you using version 1:4:6 or 1:4:6:1? Turn the verumpher extensions off if it's the latter, then defribulate the widgets and it'll cut that by 3% at least Molls

It's funny how one stops caring about RAM/Drive Size/Pentel this/that whatever when one makes the switch to Apple products. You tend to know whatever you buy will be more than adequate for all but high-end professional applications. This is the great thing about Apple, they give you more time to just do what you want to do by removing layers of technical rubbish that 90% of us really don't need to be interested in.

http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

Great little battery health app for Mac Books and iPhones / iPads too. Some of the info you can find anyway but puts it all in one place.

This is the great thing about Apple, they give you more time to just do what you want to do by removing layers of technical rubbish that 90% of us really don't need to be interested in.

This is the great thing about Apple, they give you more time to just do what you want to do by removing layers of technical rubbish that 90% of us really don't need to be interested in.

And the bad thing about Apple is that they charge you way over the odds whilst forcing you to do everything in their terms.

There are bad pcs as well as good ones. That's always been the problem. Doesn't mean Windows itself is bad, mind.

This is the great thing about Apple, they give you more time to just do what you want to do by removing layers of technical rubbish that 90% of us really don't need to be interested in.

This means you buy something hugely over-speced for writing emails and surfing the internet. Which you pay for.

the current laptops are behind on processor, RAM and disc size, they rely on you not understanding this to sell you last years tech at next years prices.

Intel hasn't released the processors the Apple need to use in the 'current gen'. There's also no low power RAM modules available for the architecture required. So, in reality it's this years tech, at this years prices. If you can find a laptop that looks as good as a macbook pro, with the same battery life, weight and portability for a lot less, then I'm very surprised.

Cougar » VMWare Parallels... it's mightily impressive. But it does beg the question, why would you need to if MacOS is so great?

Well, in my case it's because some of the software I want to use either works better using Windows or isn't available for Mac, for example some dashcam software that doesn't allow adjustments on Mac OS, or maybe NCS Expert and various other car computer tools, though I believe that was originally written in UNIX and needs a virtual machine to run on Windows which comes as part of the software.

But yeah, some folk don't write stuff for Mac OS and I want to use some of that stuff. It's not that Mac OS is so great (or isn't, as you would have it), it's just that there's a smaller market so some folk just can't be bothered to develop two bits of software, I guess. In reality I have no idea why... but VM on a Mac gives you (the best of) both worlds if you really need it.

If you can find a laptop that looks as good as a macbook pro, with the same battery life, weight and portability for a lot less, then I'm very surprised.

andykirk - Member

It's funny how one stops caring about RAM/Drive Size/Pentel this/that whatever when one makes the switch to Apple products. You tend to know whatever you buy will be more than adequate for all but high-end professional applications

Given the amount of posts about Apple stuff along the lines of 'buy X model, then stick another 8 gig of ram in it & an blah blah SSD & it'll run fine', I don't think that statement is entirely accurate.

[i]And the bad thing about Apple is that they charge you way over the odds whilst forcing you to do everything in their terms.[/i]

Am I the only one who thinks that is a great thing? I am quite happy for Apple to review programmes/ apps etc if it means my computer will continue to run flawlessly and beautifully. And I am quite happy to pay a bit more for what I know is a quality item. Quality always sells - another reason why Macs do so well. I have never felt 'forced' by Apple to do anything.

I am sure this thread has been of great assistance to the OP. Ha Ha. All I can say is try a Mac, there is a reason people like them as much as they do. If you don't like it, you will find a lot of people very willing to take it off your hands!

serial Dell XPS purchaser here - has a new 13 for 2 months, and it is the absolute dogs danglers. The main thing for me, other than the obvious i7, 1TB SSD (yes, I did...), etc, is the borderless screen a few people mentioned - meaning that the new 13" machine is the same size as the previous XPS 11 I had.

Touchscreen - total winner - I use it more and more all the time. Can't really get why Apple have stayed away from it for so long on their laptops.

Windows 10 - sorry, but it's awesome.

Dell service - incredible - they send people to you! You don't need to take anything to some patronising 'genius'.... granted, the on site service is only for a limited time, unless you purchase more, but still - good news if you ask me.

By the way - I'm an ex Apple snob, and a current Adobe CS user. Maybe it's like ex-smokers - always the most vehement anti-smokers. dunno... ;o)

Am I the only one who thinks that is a great thing?

Clearly not, or no-one would buy them.

The reason Apple have a reputation for reliability (and historically why PCs did not) is because Apple control everything. They have fixed hardware platforms to write software for and third parties have to jump through hoops, whereas the in PC world there's an eye-watering amount of hardware and software and an immense number of third parties who all have to write software that gets along with everyone else's.

It's the same with iPhone vs Android. Apple's greatest strength is it's greatest weakness; not that one is better than the other, it's just a different approach. If you want free reign to do what you want with hardware that interoperates with any other hardware, get a PC / Android; if you want to be "looked after" and are happy to invest solely in one vendor then get a Mac / iPhone, with the caveat that to do what you actually need to do you might wind up having to install Windows as a second OS on it anyway.

Am I the only one who thinks that is a great thing?

It's a valid option - the two companies have taken two fundamentally different business models and progressed them both well, on the whole. And this is great, because we have a genuine choice.

I'm happy to recommend Apple to people who ask me on this basis. But this whole 'blabla Windows is crap' thing is just ridiculous. It's clearly not. You may have had a bad laptop (binners) but that's likely the manufacturer's fault, not Microsoft.

In all seriousness binners I'd be interested to know what laptop your Mrs bought and what was wrong with it. My folks have a cheap (HP) W10 laptop and I've not heard of a single issue with it, so I don't think these problems are universal.

Colleague at work has this, it's mightily impressive. But it does beg the question, why would you need to if MacOS is so great?

Why does it beg that question? Get out of the competitive, binary mindset and look sideways for a moment. I need Windows because I have to use AutoCAD and Inventor. AutoCAD for Mac is not very well designed and there is no Inventor for Mac. I suppose you, trollgrips and the frothing Windows fanboy mikewsmith would like to see this as a hilarious flaw with Apple; I just see it as a problem with a solution. Hey! Maybe it's even a shortcoming of Autodesk - why haven't they written proper software for Mac?!?! [I have a potty mouth] < who'd have thunk that'd get past the swear filter?! Oh, I also use it for Excel, which is excellent.

Hey I'm not anti-MacOS, I'm anti fanboy.

Ok, so I am personally a bit anti Mac, to be fair, but I realise that's just my preference and try not to let it influence the debate 🙂

Hey I'm not anti-MacOS, I'm anti fanboy.

Bollocks.

EDIT it only took five minutes to realise that for yourself. Have yourself a biscuit...

Hey I'm not anti-MacOS, I'm anti fanboy.

Hehe 🙂

To be fair, I don't go round saying other cameras are the worst thing ever and anyone who buys one is a mug....

We are just pointing out our preferred product is in our opinion functionally better, more reliable and overall has a lower cost of ownership. Mike asked why anyone wouod want 7/8 yr old hardware well my Mini runs pretty much the latest software all upgraded to for free and works just as I need it.

To be fair...

Just because you apply that prefix to virtually every statement/defense of your bias, it doesn't actually make it fair.

The question was about buying second hand 8 year old hardware not wanting it still around. My 6 year old windows laptop is still running fine with win 10 on it but I know it's resale value is low because of the tech leaps and price drops over the years.

Just because you apply that prefix to virtually every statement/defense of your bias, it doesn't actually make it fair.

Explain this bias then?

I've said I personally don't like Macs. But every time this comes up, I say that the two systems are equal and one should choose on personal preference in the absence of any external factors. I have defended Windows against those who rant about its inferiority, because I don't believe either is inferior.

At least I think I have - perhaps someone will trawl through previous posts to check up on this, but I'm not going to. It's my position.

I suppose you... would like to see this as a hilarious flaw with Apple; I just see it as a problem with a solution.

It's not a flaw with Apple per sé, though I grant you, it is kind of funny.

The Mac fanboys (and I'm not directing this at anyone here, I'm generalising) buy Apple computers whose two primary selling points are shiny hardware and MacOS, hit the Internet with "lol Windoze, buy a Mac" comments every time anyone posts a computer-related question, and then actually have to install Windows alongside it because it won't run half of the applications they need. Man, that must [i]burn.[/i]

Man, that must burn

Why?

As I wrote, you have both at your disposal. How is that a "burn"...?

Edit : I'm guessing...

it won't run [b]half[/b] of the applications they need

That's a valid use-case I'd say, and an advantage of Mac because you cannot legally do it the other way round, afaik..?

We are just pointing out our preferred product is [b]in our opinion[/b] functionally better

I think every computer owner would make that claim, no? "I need a new computer, I think I'll try and find what I think is functionally the worst" said no-one ever.

more reliable and overall has a lower cost of ownership. Mike asked why anyone wouod want 7/8 yr old hardware well my Mini runs pretty much the latest software all upgraded to for free and works just as I need it.

My 8 year old Dell laptop runs the latest software (no "pretty much" about it) and works just as I need it, and cost £750. How much was your Mac? [EDIT: it's had an SSD and a RAM upgrade over the years, so add another £100 for TCO.]

As I wrote, you have both at your disposal. How is that a "burn"...?

It must burn if someone's a Windows-hating fanboy, spends shedloads on a Mac for MacOS and then winds up having to install Windows anyway. Like I said, I wasn't directing it at you or any other non-rabid Apple owners.

I love these threads. People get very excited about computers. I get the feeling Mac vs PC can become a bit rich v poor sometimes... a bit Labour v Conservative... a bit Rangers v Celtic.

If you are buying a computer to do a specific task (i.e AutoCAD) I would certainly buy the platform that best suits the application. VMWare always felt a bit like a 'dirty' programme on my Mac. I was glad the day I decided to remove it, it made me feel a bit superior and closer to God. I use a crappy old PC to run AutoCAD now and use the Mac for everything else.

Like I said, I wasn't directing it at you or any other non-rabid Apple owners.

And I didn't take it personally. Just curious as to your reasoning, is all.

VMWare always felt a bit like a 'dirty' programme on my Mac. I was glad the day I decided to remove it, it made me feel a bit superior and closer to God.

Aside from a genuine lol, it makes a world of difference if you run it with VMWare Tools. Not that I tried it without for about a week before I realised, of course. I'm not that dense.

So I presume you did...? Because it was really shit without it but seamless integration once installed. Fusion 8 btw.

Teasel - AutoCAD to me just felt weird on a Mac, and to be honest I can't remember now what type of VMWare I used. I am so used to using it on a PC that I just couldn't be bothered with it on the Mac. When you use a programme a lot you become very sensitive to even the slightest changes in operation.

@Cougar £400 I think, Mini with 2gb ram and 120gb hdd - whoar 🙂 (actually should add the £100 for the mouse and keyboard, reused my old screen). Supports all os up until the very latest one this Sep

Aside from a genuine lol, it makes a world of difference if you run it with VMWare Tools. Not that I tried it without for about a week before I realised, of course. I'm not that dense.

That's the same on all platforms, not just Macs. The world of difference thing, I mean. No idea if you're that dense on other systems too 🙂

The Mac fanboys (and I'm not directing this at anyone here, I'm generalising) buy Apple computers whose two primary selling points are shiny hardware and MacOS, hit the Internet with "lol Windoze, buy a Mac" comments every time anyone posts a computer-related question

Thing is, it doesn't work that way around here. In fact, if we're going generalise, it tends to be the same elsewhere: Apple users don't give that much of a shit about people who use other systems, whereas people who use other systems always seem to get their knickers in a know trying to pick holes in a system that only about 5% of them have ever been anywhere near.

and then actually have to install Windows alongside it because it won't run half of the applications they need.

I had a quick count. I use around ten applications, not including web/mail stuff, on a regular basis. One is Windows-only, the other is poorly designed by the developer for Mac so needs to be run on Windows. So we'll call that one and a half, or two if we're being "fair" for trollgrips. If I didn't have to do create 3D designs, I could probably tolerate AutoCAD on the Mac, so I'd never have to go anywhere near a Windows computer. So, erm, yeah, half my applications.

Man, that must burn.

You were almost sounding plausible, then you had to let your ego run its mouth.

I asked my friend to show me what pornography his £2.5k Mac would show that my £280 laptop wouldn't.
He wept a little.
His tears were umami.

andykirk - Member

....I use a crappy old PC to run AutoCAD now and use the Mac for everything else.

Why do you choose to use a 'crappy old PC' for AutoCAD?? Why not use a 'decent old PC' or a 'brilliant new PC' or a 'so-so hand me down PC'??

It's you Apple users deliberately making life difficult for yourself by using 'crappy old' stuff that makes it all seem so bad. 😉

I use a Dell something or other for Pro/E - 2 screens, a fairly basic NVidia graphics card & 12Gb of ram. It's perfectly good at it's job & hasn't been touched for the almost 5 years I've been at this job. It handles complicated assemblies with literally 1000's of parts without issue.

My almost 6 year old laptop that cost me £550 (integrated Intel graphics) will run Solidworks without issue (i5 with 6 Gb of RAM), so I suspect running AutoCAD on it would be a doddle.

Apple users don't give that much of a shit about people who use other systems, whereas people who use other systems always seem to get their knickers in a know trying to pick holes in a system that only about 5% of them have ever been anywhere near.

Come now, that's simply not true. Look at any thread on here where someone asks for PC advice. With tedious regularity you'll get some wag going "buy a Mac" or "install Linux." Rarely if ever do you get the reverse on a Mac thread (I've done it once tongue-in-cheek IIRC). I'd be happy to recommend a Mac in response to a question if I believed it was the best tool for the job.

Whilst you might be right that most Windows users have little experience of Macs, the vocal "Windoze" (last funny in 1995) haters haven't been near a modern PC in a decade either.

Rarely if ever do you get the reverse on a Mac thread

That's some epic, top-level trolling there. *doffs cap*

Happy to be proved wrong.

Dell XPS 15 with matte screen for Adobe CC.

Should probably be bothered about ram and processor for CC. We use for video.

I believe cuda is better supported on the nvidia for video acceleration. Not sure where open cl is on the Mac setups.

Personally I don't care if people use Windows and I don't deride their choice. It certainly doesn't seem to work the other way round. Some Windows posters do feel a need to post negative stuff on Mac threads.

Rarely if ever do you get the reverse on a Mac thread

Of course not. Even windows users know not to recommend it over a superior OS.

It certainly doesn't seem to work the other way round. Some Windows posters do feel a need to post negative stuff on Mac threads.

Yeah because there isn't a weird sort of cult surrounding Windows stuff.

Yeah because there isn't a weird sort of cult surrounding Windows stuff.

You tar everyone/everything with the same brush.

Even windows users know not to recommend it over a superior OS.

The argument is boring tbh. Try dragging and dropping media across different platforms or playing Battlefield1 on a mac.. not such a good OS now, is it?

For me it's simple, You can get under the hood more with windows, and it has more 'out of the box' functionality, and equivelent PC's are cheaper.

If you want to surf the net on a £1000+ machine, that's your business but don't be suprised if some question the logic 😉

You tar everyone/everything with the same brush.

I don't mean to.

There IS a weird cult, but not all Mac users belong to it 🙂

Thread kind of proves that there isn't a killer reason to use one or other any more, its a case of preference. However it isn't a case of deciding using your one main application, you need to look at all of them. If you need to drop into windows for just one side application that might swing you even if it isn't the main one. We have one mac user who can't get one data source as it isn't available on mac and its a real pita for everyone else

Fwiw this thread has sort of convinced me I should get a mac as a secondary machine to look at if I can find one cheap enough. Not changing main machine though as I spend a lot of time with my Ms office apps linked by vba

Yeah because there isn't a weird sort of cult surrounding Windows stuff.

There certainly is... oh, wait, "cult," my mistake.

The argument is boring tbh. Try dragging and dropping media across different platforms or playing Battlefield1 on a mac.. not such a good OS now, is it?

OSX users have no need for your primitive dragging and dropping.

In a desire to add nothing other than anecdote to this thread, I find that my relatively inexpensive 2013ish Dell work laptop on Windows 10 boots from cold [i]minutes[/i] quicker than my 2011(?) iMac running Sierra. My 2015 MacBook boots considerably quicker than the iMac from cold. The summary is don't let anyone tell you Macs don't slow down as they get older. I see more spinning beach balls on my iMac than a Californian beach at sprint break.

Dell XPS, MS Surface Pro etc. better spec and lower priced to name a few.

The Dell XPS 15" in Canada is currently $1000 less than the top end MBP 15". The MBP has the same processor, twice the storage capacity, is smaller, lighter and has an additional (on paper) 4 hours of battery life. To get the same size of SSD it's an extra $300. There's definitely a price difference, but it's not as clear cut as 'better spec and lower price'.

(I'll not look up the Surface Pro as it'll be a similar case, but I remember being blown away with how much the Surface Pros cost, though still not as much as a MBP, the gap is a lot smaller than you think)

Where as like for like here
Same SSD, same Graphics Memory, same RAM, similar chips though can't find the exact apple specs
http://www.apple.com/au/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?afid=p238%257Cs71wG9rXf-dc_mtid_18707vxu38484_pcrid_55471953526_&cid=aos-au-kwgo-pla-mac-product-MLH32&product=MLH42X/A&step=config# about $4200 Australian
http://www.dell.com/au/business/p/xps-15-9550-laptop/pd?oc=z520895au&model_id=xps-15-9550-laptop $3099

Dell is over $1000 less for the same spec, even if you add in 4 years Pro support is about 800 less

Weight of the non touch Dell is 1.78 for 15" 1.83 for the Mac and the Touch Dell with bigger battery is 2.0kg (do you get all your dongles and adaptors for under 170g?)
Surface Pro with i7,16gb RAM, 1TB SSD and full touch/pen is $4200RRP smaller 12.7" screen but weighs 786g and runs for 9hrs apparently.

Does seem a bit more clear cut, there is also a newer higher spec XPS landing shortly that will probably slot in around the same price point. The Mac also tops out at 16gb RAM whereas the Dell can go up to 32gb

[b]Apple[/b]
Spent 15 minutes in the MAC store in Exeter at the weekend, trying to get more information. I was served by 2 people, both of whom put me in a queue to speak to someone else and then stood around doing nothing.

I had to walk away in the end as my family were getting impatient.

[b]Dell[/b]
Tried to find out how to get the Dell with 32gb RAM

Most frustrating phone call ever to Dell, where I was told by a robot to look on the website and hung up on 3 times. When I finally got to speak to someone, he couldn't answer my questions and told me to go to online chat.

The guy on online chat said I had to buy the 16gb machine, then get in touch with technical support who would then sell me the extra 16gb and guide me through how to install it. I couldn't buy both together and he couldn't give me a price for the extra 16gb!

I should point out that the purchase of the machine needs to be simple and made all at once [complicated boring explanation]

[b]Conclusion[/b]
Nobody wants to sell me a high spec machine 😥
I guess I would have got served eventually by Apple, but I have a bugbear about poor customer service. However, I also have a complete lack of trust that Dell can support me and fulfil my requirements from a call centre halfway around the world.

👿 👿 👿

Just my tuppence worth...

We had a company discount with HP just before Christmas.

I had 400 Francs discount on one of these:

http://store.hp.com/SwitzerlandStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=X9Y12EA&opt=UUZ&sel=NTB

Only been using it a few weeks, but pretty good. Seems nice and quick, boots up in seconds, I'd done some video editing with hitfilm, super quick. Nice speakers too.

Bit pricey I know, but pretty good. Plus nice to be able to flip the screen when just surfing tut internet...although I had to use a stylus....hate finger prints on the screen.

Is this still dragging on? Just order a ****ing Mac! Do it to upset Molls! 😆

The question will be if there is 1 RAM chip in place then it's ordering this one
http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/category.aspx?category_id=8136&c=uk&l=en&s=bsd&cs=ukbsdt1&mfgpid=6109399
£153
Installation will take a couple of mins. Support for a year is collection from the door service an better with the business support packages

I just replaced a 1 year old zbook laptop (quite a powerful cad workstation quadro graphics core i7) with a surface book 4 core i5 , it runs my cad exactly the same as the laptop did , I was torn between the new Mac book pro as you can also uni graphics natively on a Mac now and do cad cam , this was previously money you had to spend on a pc

I still have no idea why 8 go of ram costs 400 quid between two models of surface book or why a bolt on keyboard is 129 quid ,

8 go of ram costs 400 quid between two models of surface book

Blimey they are out Apple-ing Apple 😯

OP what info do you want from Apple ? Sadly a decent portion of Apple store employees (students with a big smile and part time jobs) are just able to help with phones/ipad basics.

I haven't re-read the whole thread but 32gb ram is massive (video editing?) and ram is easy to add to middle/top of the range iMacs.

not the macbook pro as it appears to be limited to 16gb in this iteration
The dell was listing it as an upgrade on the US site

Most frustrating phone call ever to Dell

Good thing about PCs is that there are lots of other manufacturers so if you don't like Dell you can shop elsewhere.

why a bolt on keyboard is 129 quid ,

Top tip - £90 on Amazon, but I agree too expensive. Surfaces aren't cheap. But as I said - if you don't like it, you can buy something else - choice is the big benefit of PC, and also its down-side depending on your viewpoint.

Spent 15 minutes in the MAC store in Exeter at the weekend, trying to get more information.

I imagine you being in a cosmetics store might have been the issue.

Had a bit of a TL:DR with the thread but my 2pen-th is I'm a fanboi. Wanted to replace my aged MacAir 11inch. Cannot justify a new MacAir with the rubbish specs and no way am I am paying 2k+ for a MacBook Pro. This from a man who also has a nice iMac sat on the desk and an iPhone.

Ended up buying two new windows devices for the business (there are only 2 of us) - one XPS 13 and one Inspiron with a few upgrades for less than one MBP pro.

It does mean I won't be able to drink coffee in my favourite shoreditch cafe tho. They have Windows detectors on the door 😉

They have Windows detectors on the door

😆

Sorry binners - just pushed the button on the top XPS 15, as it is upgrade-able and I will use all the connections/card reader etc.

Let's hope I don't regret it...

Thanks all and sorry to drag this up again!

not the macbook pro as it appears to be limited to 16gb in this iteration

Yup, there's no low power RAM available in 32GB configuration. For mostly people 16GB will be plenty.

[i]Written from a 2016 15" tbMBP [/i] 😆

you would have to hope so, or if it's not avoid a mac 🙂 Simple really, company reduces spec and options and ends up with customers going elsewhere.

Simple really, company reduces spec and options and ends up with customers going elsewhere.

Did they? Pretty standard for macs. There's never been that many options. Probably part of the appeal to some people.