[Closed] Ok who's for leaving? - an emigration question

Quite the impulsive family 😉

Got to have an escape plan with the leavers taking the country down

Oz is nice 🙂

The US would be out of the frying pan, into the fire - whichever one they elect, surely?

I'm looking at Scotland myself.

Where did Paul O'grady emigrate to after the last general election.

Quite the impulsive family

I've got an Italian BiL and an Australian SiL, and my sister is about to move to China (from AUS). Modern family, pro free-movement of people funnily enough.

Edit: I'm married to a Spanish lass.

I don't have enough points for Oz.

I do for Canada and USA.

I've got an Italian BiL and an Australian SiL, and my sister is about to move to China (from AUS). Modern family, pro free-movement of people funnily enough.

Erm...nice one?

@igm I love France, definiteoy an options dor retirement but a few thoughts for the family;

Have a look at the market reaction in France, down more than UK as people think its worse for France than UK
France already gifted €75bn to Greece with more to go (note population still think its a loan) euro could well collpase in medium term
Front Nationale (ie UKIP) likely to eliminate Hollande (socialists) from next years Presidential election
Unemployment 10%, youth unemployment 25%
Taxes are eye watering, any sort of decent job and its 50% with social contributions
Houses are cheaper but don't forget 10% purchase costs (high on sale too) so choose wisely
Higher levels of petty crime and as I imagine you are not Jewish having fully armed military guards outside every school and synagogue may not affect you directly.

Posting from Paris by the way. I have loved living and working abroad particularly the US and would always encourage others to do so

[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]Where did Paul O'grady emigrate to after the last general election.

There must be some sleb pre-referendum "if we leave then I'm emigrating" statements. Anyone heard of any ?

Looked at Oz a few years ago, meet the criteria and would earn more but stayed for family reasons.....providing I stay in my current career it's always an option.

Does USA have a points system?

Erm...nice one?

Works for us... just pointing out the op's situation isn't that extreme.

Me, either Germany or Finland. My Finnish wife doesn't feel particularly welcome in this country after a pretty ugly campaign. I am a partner in a business that had a long term plan of opening a German office, so the referendum result may well accelerate that process, and my wife had a masters in German.

She would also be keen to return to Finland, but I don't think I could, to all intents and purposes give up mountain biking. Finland also has its own issues with far right nationalism.

Works for us... just pointing out the op's situation isn't that extreme.

I know it's not. I had hoped the 😉 showed that I was making an [i]amusing[/i] comment on the OP's whole family decamping 2 days after the vote.

Just got back from Toronto. Wishing I'd stayed

I was making an amusing comment on the OP's whole family decamping 2 days after the vote.

I'll blame the Spanish and German beer for missing that one #EUFTW 😀

but I don't think I could, to all intents and purposes give up mountain biking

There's some decent riding in Finland!

If I were 15 years younger I think I'd be off. I know another 2 local excellent Drs who are off in 6 months, and others who are looking. And those are just the English ones. People may not understand how much the NHS is being kept going by Europeans. Sad times.

[b]“We have far more in common than that which divides us.”[/b]

I am not inclined to run away from a fight and I don't feel outnumbered just yet.

[i]This land has my heart for a bit longer.[/i]

Possibly yes, could be new Zealand, aus, or Canada.
Part of the bonus with our jobs is that we can move worldwide with the company too.
Will see how it goes for a while as i don't quite buy into the full doom and gloom, at least after a few days of discussion with friends and family.
Still wish we had remained in though

nedrapier - Member
but I don't think I could, to all intents and purposes give up mountain biking
There's some decent riding in Finland!

There is Ned, but around Helsinki I don't think there is a huge amount. Where we are now I can be on the trails in 30 mins. Not sure I could do that living in Helsinki.

From a business perspective Germany is more appropriate, though my 7 year old wants to move to Finland where she has family. The saddest thing is the decision to leave the UK feels like its been made by other people, and I'm not sure I can ever forgive my country for that.

I've actually thought about it, but that was the case before the referendum - neither of us fancy the US despite SIL moving there a few years ago, folks live in Bahrain and could help us find well-paid jobs with almost no tax but leaving the UK because of a shift to the right and going to Bahrain would be madness.

Mrs fancies Oz, but she's obsessed with sunny weather and I've had to break it to her that Sydney and Melbourne are cold and damp a lot of the time in winter and the other cites are limited in opportunity.

Canada obvs appeals to Montain Bikers - somewhere on the sea to sky highway but it's very expensive there and the Mrs has never been.

Ideally I'd like to move to France, but the problem is the language, I can speak a little, my Wife more - but neither of us know enough to work their - we can order drinks, but don't know the French for SQL server or Sringe Driver.

I've been looking at Rosseta Stone.

[i]I'm looking at Scotland myself. [/i]

We came up 4 years ago 🙂

At 41, I don't think anywhere wants me. Canada certainly doesn't, which would be my choice. My only option there would be to go over an study for a couple of years and then apply for PR. I'm not sure how practical that is, though.

We have considered moving before Brexit as the government appear absolutely intent in alienating all doctors.

Moving to the states would make us millionaires within 5 years apparently

It would be Canada for me, in fact I wish I'd gone years ago which I realised would've been the right decision after I visited in 2000.

Why?

Much of the European Union is not the prosperous ,liberal panacea which the remainers seem to think.Right wing neo nazi parties thrive throughout most of Europe and many have represenation in the European parliament-even the odious UKIP MEPs wouldn't align with them!
Unemployment levels in Spain are eye wateringly high and would not be tolerated in the UK.
Italy has that charming former head of state and media magnate Berlusconi.
The French have to resort to tactical voting to keep out the nasty right wing Le Pen.
The Nordic states also have right wing parties that attract far wider support than any in the UK can.In the former Eastern Bloc countries the attitude of many towards black, Asian and Muslims is appalling.
To label 17 million of the UK Leave voters as "thick racists" is ridiculous.
The reason why the UK attracts so many migrants both economic and also political refugees from Europe and beyond is precisely because we are one of the most liberal multi cultural countries in the world.

I applied for jobs in barcalona and finland on friday, just sent an application to a company in Berlin, Friend has just sent me some stuff on a opening in Malmo. Fingers crossed.

On a serious note, I quite like the UK and would rather stay here and try and make a difference somehow.

We do live in interesting times, though.

Does USA have a points system?

No. Its one of the toughest places to get into but if you have a decent job offer and the company can prove you have unique skills / experience which are hard to find locally you should be ok. Pretty certain they look at how much mkney you'll be bringing in too, the more the better. 20 years ago they had an explicit quota by country as they where encouraging immigration but I believe thats long gone.

People may not understand how much the NHS is being kept going by Europeans. Sad times.

Asians too, many nurses from the Phillipines. Visas will be available for all, if even required as we may negotiate an exchange system

Well said, fasthaggis.

To put it in perspective, I have lived in the US and their politics is interesting but I have more confidence in their economy. I also have family out there and work contacts (also in Canada).
I also did an exchange to Italy while at university - nice place in some ways but not for me long term.
Did consider Oz and Oman when a couple of companies rang me with offers, but again not for me.
Perhaps the north west coast of the US, say Portland. Politics is much better near the coasts.

Don't really want to leave the UK, but the country's future is looking bleak.

Which of these non EU countries mentioned have open borders?
Lots of talk of them being difficult to get into, which lack of one of the major things which is why you are talking about leaving here is it not?!?!
If having closed borders is racist/xenophobic, then pretty much anywhere worth living qualifies. Canada, the US and Aus certainly do.

I wanted to stay in, heartbroken, pissed off, generally unhappy about the result.

[quote=igm ]
Perhaps the north east coast of the US, say Portland. Politics is much better near the coasts.

Portland is in the North West BTW.

ATP - thanks. Typo, honest. 😕

Major reason for leaving is that I think the UK is dying as a country, and the economy is only going one way.

Will give it a few months and review though.

I suspect that I won't be the only one thinking "if you have the skills, get out". Of course the multinational companies are already starting to make noises along the same lines.

Finland? The right wing Finns party are in a coaliton government aren't they?
People spat at my black wife when we were in Helsinki,lovely.
Oh and I forgot to mention the appalling attitude to LGBT folk in many places in Europe.

Permanent resident of Japan, but as far as xenophobic backwaters with basket-case economies are concerned, it's rather a frying pan/fire situation 🙂

I wanted to Remain, and now worried about my job.

I work in the automotive sector (high tech R&D for autonomous driving stuff), we're always back and forth between Europe and the UK, and currently bidding for contracts with all the German car manufacturers.

Company already has offices in Germany, I'd imagine our jobs would be moved there if we don't continue with freedom of movement & free trade within the EU. Our business just wouldn't work outside the EU.

🙁

Does USA have a points system?

it has a lottery....

Major reason for leaving is that I think the UK is dying as a country, and the economy is only going one way.

You should have been here in the 40s. Or the 50s. Or the 60s. Or the 70s. Or the 80s.

nick1962 - Member
Finland? The right wing Finns party are in a coaliton government aren't they?
People spat at my black wife when we were in Helsinki,lovely.

As I said, Finland is not without its issues, some of those very same issues I see increasing In the UK after the referendum. The underlying message that my wife, and many of my friends have received through this campaign is that they are not wanted here, and they should go home. My wife naturally wants to be where she is wanted, and that happens to be her country of birth, Finland.

I'm really sorry to hear about the abuse your wife received in Finland, it's abhorrent and no one should have to experience it. That very same thing has been happening in the UK to immigrants over the last few days.

If thousands leave at least the net migration figures will come down, so that's one promise met...

Mrs CD wants is Danish and I wants me to considering moving there. Against it is that it is eye wateringly expensive, dull outside of Copenhagen, is very conformist, and that my industry does not exist on Denmark so I would have to start again. Lots of pro's though, especially on the quality of life side of things.
Now's not the time for knee jerk reactions, but if it does go tits up we do have options.

I'd caution anyone against moving to Finland.
As has been said, right wing party in coalition government (True Finns).
Mountain biking exists but compared with the UK it is dire.
Prejudice against gay people and non whites is very evident, especially outside Helsinki. Prejudice against anyone who isn't Finnish is very evident.
It's a horribly isolating culture, very difficult to find work, very difficult to integrate, nigh on impossible to learn the language. Then there's the dark. Don't underestimate what the lack of light will do to you in the winter.

I'm glad I lived there though. I live in Scotland now and even on the coldest winter day, I feel pretty much alright 🙂

If thousands leave at least the net migration figures will come down, so that's one promise met.

Depending on the deal done, there could be 10's of thousands like me forced to return to the UK.

Dark Side, I sympathise with your wife but if you move to Finland, you'll be in the same situation as she feels she is in now.
Honestly, you have to register at the local police station when you move to Finland and you are given papers which they tell you to carry with you at all times. I kid you not!

it has a lottery....

They have that in addition to a visa system. I got a visa as I had a job to go to

I'm waiting for Clinton-Trump but thinking about Canada or US

The US is already like Remainers worst fears.

Plus, you will have to be very lucky to get in. Green card lottery is slim, and whilst you can get a visa if a US company can't find any US citizens with their skills, it's such a ballache for a company to do that it's very rare for them to bother, and they have so many people that they can find someone with close skills and train them up. You need *very* specific skills and they need to be very good.

Don't really want to leave the UK, but the country's future is looking bleak.

@igm as I said future looks far bleaker in Europe even before Brexit. They are looking at the abyss now. This is why international organisations and the US did not want us to leave, Europe is already sick and this could be terminal

nick1962 - Member
Why?
Much of the European Union is not the prosperous ,liberal panacea which the remainers seem to think.Right wing neo nazi parties thrive throughout most of Europe and many have represenation in the European parliament-even the odious UKIP MEPs wouldn't align with them!

^^^ see these comments about how hard it is to get into the US, Australia etc tricky too. That shows how ridiculous and unusual the EU system is.

No jambers it'd be ridiculous if a new yorker needed a work permit to get a job in massachusets. That's what Germany France etc realised ages ago.

I quite like where I live, missus is Scottish and we'd had a vague plan to go there eventually. Seriously considering doing that sooner rather than later.

I have no problem with the vote going the wrong way for my beliefs, except it seems to have brought quite a few flag waving nationalist morons out of the woodwork and given them a voice.

I realise that not everyone voting leave was of that type, but noticing your neighbours talking about getting "England back" and blaming the Polish farm workers for all their ills and how it's all going to change now, is just a bit unpleasant.

Just not sure that a move will get me away from it. The economic side of things wil be everywhere, I'll simply be screwed over in a different way to if we'd stayed. The flag waving nationalists are everywhere.

Might just keep my head down and get on with enjoying myself.

Somewhere in BC, in fact it's still the plan.

As we are both the wrong side of 30 though, Canada makes it really tough. There are ways though, looking at buying a business as an alternative approach, we shall see though.

Amusingly I've seen some press about a reciprocal migration agreement post brexit with relaxed points - Canada was on the list, so, every cloud & all that.

The only thing keeping us in the UK at the moment is family.

Hoping to move to France soonish.
I'm French and have a house there. And lots of family.
Work don't worry me
If you want to work it is possible.

[img] [/img]

😉

No jambers it'd be ridiculous if a new yorker needed a work permit to get a job in massachusets.

To be fair I'd quite like Europe to truly be one country - however that's a) an aside and b) not going to happen this week.

I'm aware what the US is like. I've lived, worked or visited 44 of the states and I am also aware that they are quite different.
Middle America wouldn't suit me really, but coastal is very different.
I doubt with my background and contacts I'd have much difficulty getting in - if I did it I'd probably do it via the company I already work for who have taken several people from the UK. I'm across there working with their senior managers and VPs reasonably regularly, so I'm known.
As another aside "returning ETSA" queues at immigration are wonderful.

May I ask why? I mean this would be the absolute opposite to (for example) scottish indy. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, I'm just not sure what the benefit would be?

I was looking at Whistler property last night, very doable.
I have no skills to take over there but should be able to get some work as a gigolo or something.

Is new york in a different country to massachusets?

I could only assume that the argument is that they're different states, as are Germany and France... and that the EU and the US are similar political beasts

Germany and france are different countries; soverign states with different governments, militaries, social systems. It's really not a comparison.

Spanish wife - few tears this weekend asking "why don't British people want us here anymore" ? What can I tell her. She gets up at 6am every day for the last 12 years and goes to work in a London primary school, not a single day missed in 12 years. She teaches the kids a bit of spanish in her spare time after school. This is a tiny example of what will be missed in the future of the narrow minded new "Great Britain"... But it will be awesome because "Maurien" from Hull is FREE !

Wrecker - because I believe in large economic blocks, it would sort out a lot of the financial issues and I genuinely feel as European as I feel British.
My sort of Scots nationalism was never based on nation states, or who I dislike - it's a personal thing about me about where I started from and what I can bring to others. I don't need Scots independence, or the UK flouncing out of Europe for that. Freedom of movement simply allows me to take who and what Scotland made me to a wider audience - and to listen to more people tell their story.
Actually I'd like all borders everywhere tearing down in terms of movement for individuals.
And how do you then address immigration if you don't have walls? You work to make the places people come from good places to be, so the only driver to move is interest, curiosity about everyone else.

Like I said not going to happen this week.

I've been treating Europe as one big country for a while. There are a few irritating bits that still use different currencies and there's that island place they spend up to half an hour asking dumb questions and checking things before they'll let me in or even out. For Spain I just check there's an extra warning triangle in the boot, Italy a phrase book, Germany an E4 sticker on the windscreen... . It all flows by seamlessly from Lidl to Lidl.

@ Edukator , it is ok , tax evasion is national sport .

Such a shame that people would just rather bail at the first signs of any trouble rather than offer something constructive to help smooth things over. The grass is not always greener people.

Why should I help the leavers (those who are quitting on Europe and Britain's place within Europe)?

They've hurt my children's future.

I'm looking forward to all the handwringers buggering off, it will make [s]the UK[/s] England a much more tolerable place to live

Fair enough igm, that's actually a nice rationale.
I find all this "leaving the UK" stuff a bit knee jerk. The UK opts out of the EU, so move to another country which isn't in the EU?
It might not be quite left wing enough for some, but look around! There is some seriously scary right wing populism in europe. Front nationale in france, Golden dawn in Greece, alternative for germany, the finnish one, hell it was only in may that austria gave Hofer 49.7% of the vote. Even Canada had Harper for 9 years, similar australia with Howard (who was a [i]liberal[/i] by their measure)
Things might not be perfect here, but I'd bet that we are one of the most tolerant, inclusive countries in the world. Not being part of a (less than perfect) organisation won't change that.

Wrong, it will still be full of ****s

No handwringing here, just anger and realism.

And just an addendum to the nice bit for Wrecker. Strangely I do believe in countries - but only as a means for choosing sporting teams. Under while rules I guess Yorkshire qualifies.

All I can advise is that if you are top high end of your skill rate is to get as much references together as a portfolio and search outside the EU. The EU is full of low skilled workers and even this Country has for a while now Devoiding our work force to accommodate this basic crap and this Country is full of it. Years back City & Guilds would give you a chance anywhere in the World now most of our qualifications are fake and if your at the top of your game it isn't hard to weed these out.

I'll be leaving the UK. No, I'm not going anywhere.

we were planning the move before Brexit , just want to do it before the Uk is out for practical reasons .

My rationale, Wrecker, is there is a pretty good chance of a decade long recession looming in Europe. Already 90% of my family is abroad. For my family to stay, I'd anticipate having to pay for right to remain anyway, so might as well spend that money on a visa for elsewhere. I hear you on the far right, but I think you're wrong. I think this result will give the far right traction here as well.

A rush and a push and the land is ours. Or move to Sweden, like me !

Some inspiration for francophones.