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Right, I'm getting myself worked up over these things again! I've always had a soft spot for the defender but never actually owned one. I'm in the position where I can now afford one but,
I've currently got a Shogun, it's getting on a bit (2002) and it's petrol (18-20mpg average) but it's unbelievably reliable, just sailed through it's mot, is very comfortable, smooth and is a very capable vehicle all round. It's worth about 2.5 - 3k that's all. Owes me nothing.
I'm thinking of buying an 07 onwards defender, budget 15 - 20k am I mad? Is it/are they worth it? Should I keep the Shogun? Blimey talk about first world problems!
As you rate the Shogun so much, I'm guessing you don't use it off road too much. The Defender is much more of an off roader and will probably disappoint you on the asphalt. Keep the Shogun or think about an XC90/X5/Tuareg.
No, no off roading this one but I did do a bit in one I owned previously, it was fine.
I've looked at the XC90's, lovely as they are, they just don't excite me (although I might end up with one eventually).
I need 7 seats and a strong tow car, so that rules out the X5 and Tuareg (the extra seats in the X5 are tiny and the Tuareg only has 5 seats I believe).
I sat in a defender the other week and after reading about how bad the driving position was, I found it quite nice actually!
Yes you are mad. The Shogun will be 90% as good as the Landy off road and 100% better on the road. If you want a hobby get a landy but keep the shogun for when the Landy breaks down. As I've noted before a mate of mine trials a V8 90. His everyday runabout is the 3.2 shogun. He would never run one on a day to day basis as his only car and he is Landrover mad!
Defenders are horrid things. No road manners, no comfort, no refinement.
"Defenders are horrid things. No road manners, no comfort, no refinement."
They do how ever eclipse cart sprung pick ups that bob down the road and make you sea sick.
Echo above , big landy fan - would not run one as my only car. Also did you sit in a newer one or an older one. Loads of room in mine - but no sound deadening or wind down windows.....new ones have the interior or a focus crammed inside and are much worse on the comfort front.
[img] 
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Just because 🙂
It was a newer one, 2 years old I think. I really wanted it to be bad to put me off but it wasn't and it didn't lol
So with the 2007 onwards models, aren't they very reliable then?
It's a itch you just have to scratch.
Loved all my Landys.
Not had one for about four years and I want another one again.
I do fancy a 110 this time and maybe do a camper conversion.
I never say 'a landy' when people ask what 4x4 they should get - generally when people just want a 4x4, they shouldn't get a landy.
However, in this case the OP *wants* a landy. If you actively want a landy, none of the more reliable, more refined offerings from other manufacturers are going to scratch that itch.
Just don't complain when it turns out to be a bit rubbish 🙂
^ has about 27 landies of various models he does ^
Get an 05 or later petrol Range Rover.
Keep the Shogun, better on road, you know the car and paying an extra £12k makes no sense imho
FYI we had two Shoguns ober 10 years and 200,000 miles used as family cars, trips to Alps and Southern France. Great cars and very reliable with minimal bills - aside from fuel on the V6. 24v !!
Landy's are great fun and I could see myself wanting one if I lived out in the real countryside but you'd need another road car too. There Is a reason they've stopped making them and its that more more modern rivals are more versatile. I'm in the market for a 4x4 and will probabky buy an okder Rav4, we had one kf thise for 10 years also and with rear seats out it was like a van, refined on road but a bit slow, more than good enough in snow for us (as an aside the Audi A6 Quattro we had was better in the snow than Rav4 and Shoguns, may have been a tyre issue)
I fancy a land rover too, but ( aside from 'I just want one') the only rationale that could possibly ever justify getting one is that you need something capable for off road, if its going to be used mainly on road then there are other far better choices.
I have absolutely no need for any off road capability, except maybe the odd (very odd) snow day.
They're expensive to buy, extremely unrefined, slow etc,but for some reason I still quite fancy one.
OP - I'm planning to sell my 110 Utility in the next month or two owing to our first sprog due in the summer. It'll be towards the top of your budget but it's a great wagon - galvanised chassis, a few nice bits, very low mileage Tdci. Email in my profile if you are interested in more...
Hmmm, I wonder if I could put a defender body shell on the shogun chassis? Best of both worlds 😆
@julians - driving in snow isn't really offroad. As per my post above Quattro was better in the snow than the Shoguns. There was a video posted on here on someone with a rear wheel drive BMW on a snowy field / track with decent snowtyres and it was hadnling it all very well.
Worst of both worlds imo.
200 or early 300 tdi on a galv chassis and bulkhead.
Simple , solid , robust and needs little more than a multi meter, big hammer and a socket/spanner set to get it going again.
How ever youll need all your budget plus more to get a good one.
Mean while i watched a quatro cock a wheel and get foxed by a kerb. It was absolutely comic.
I suspect it might have been broken but it was funny none the less.
as above.
my 110 is my daily runner....but then it doesnt need to go further than a 10 mile radius. It never leaves the county.
If I need to go further afield I use the train or my motorbike. If we as a family need to go further afield, we use Mrs Stoner's commuting passat.
And if we are going on holidays, it's the T4.
The landrover could never be our only car (mrs stoner doesnt drive it for one thing). However, as trail_rat says above, with an older 200/300tdi with generous galvanising, a set of halfords ring spanners and a threatening manner with a hammer is all thats needed to keep it running for not a lot of cost. However, my 1988 CSW owes me about £11k, and it's probably worth about £10k. But over the next 20yrs, it's relative value will increase as the galv bulkhead, chassis and sills become even shinier pearls in swill.
Yes you are mad. The Shogun will be [s]90%[/s] 30% as good as the Landy off road and 100%
The Shogun is not a serious off roader. As has been said, it's an itch that needs scratching, then go for it. You're aware of the drawbacks of a vehicle of that size re town driving and parking etc. Have a look at something like a [url= http://www.twistedautomotive.com/ ]Twisted[/url] where it should have had some of its bad manners beaten out of it.
Siwhite, I've sent you an email.
Unless you are going to use it for mega off roading I'd steer well clear. Hateful things when compared to virtually any other modern 4x4 or car/van/bus. I use my own car and own petrol if the only option left at work is the Defender.
I could buy one and try living with it for a year, they don't really seem to depreciate like other 4x4's so if it's a hateful experience, I could potentially get my money back on it.
chestrockwell - Member
Unless you are going to use it for mega off roading I'd steer well clear.
I struggle to think of many farmers running them these days, when me and my dad were talking about the end of the production he had to admit he would never buy one even for the farm.
If you want one then be prepared for it and remember to just ignore all the crap it's a lifestyle choice.
So long as you shop well.
Issue with defenders is even shit ones command good money.
Even spending 15 k doesnt mean you will get a good one.
I went shopping with 10k for a td5 to replace my 19j and in the end spent half the 10k chassis up rebuilding the 19j with a 200tdi engine. The td5s had the same issues my 19j in the chassis and body work at not even half the age"....
Its possible to spend a lot of money on one that has an mot and looks the part and yet can be an economic write off the following years mot....
Take someone who knows land rovers to your viewing.
If you want one then be prepared for it and remember to just ignore all the crap it's a lifestyle choice.
Totally agree, its similar to those throwing loads of money at starship milage t4s and t5s there are better out there but those that love em are blinkered.
I suppose its like bike advice really, if you want it buy it. Its your money to spend how you wish.
As a potentially totally irrelevant and daft post you could have a Porsche Cayman (insert any number of cars here) for £15k and keep the Shogun. £20k for a Defender seems madness to me unless you're a farmer etc.
Sound advice trail rat cheers
why you want a money pit?
just rent one for couple of months to scratch the itch
Cayman would look rediclous in the punch challenge in The woods though.
Pretty sure the organisers would get pissed recovering me every time i ventured off the fire road.....
Not everyone wants to go fast.
They are faster versions of farmers tractors, drafty, leaky and nothing more, forget lifestyle bollox used to sell them.
However I have a 1991 110, I'm 6'6" and fit in it fine, have done some serious mileages in comfort in it and would never ever sell it although its not my daily driver.
Buy one before they finish production and prices go (even)more mental.
Also as above there's a massive industry of tarting up knackered landrovers full of bodge and rust. Be very aware when buying.
We had our 110 td5 as a daily car for almost two years until I got fed up with it and got a cheap and almost as piss poor golf tdi for daily use
I still have the 110 and now just use it for fun and the odd bit of towing.
I find it perfectly comfy to drive ,
And thinking about it in the last two years all it's had apart from oil filters etc is a new rad.
But the previous two years or so we're costly , in tank fuel pump / clutch and dual mass flywheel / ecu / alternator vac pump / injector seals and a shed load of other little stuff.
Bit rambling sorry
6'6" and you fit in it fine? Cor, I'm 6'2" and can't steer one without my elbow out the window, can't turn the ignition without dislocating my arm and can't operate the hand brake full stop!
6ft 3 here - its no bmw but its comfier than my mates elise.
Certainly don need the window open or have hassle putting ignition on.
Was this a td5 or puma you had ? They have significantly more interior pieces inside which make the interior smaller .
Go and buy a Land Rover but get used to the idea that if you want to keep it in good shape, an older model will be a money pit. There is always something that needs attention, they leak for fun in the rain and they rust for fun. But they are great off road and you can drive round feeling invisible because everybody will ignore you.
Buy a Discovery 4.
[i]I struggle to think of many farmers running them these days, when me and my dad were talking about the end of the production he had to admit he would never buy one even for the farm. [/i]
Not around here it seems, there are loads of them (90's or whatever they are called these days) and a lot are pretty new. Plus the estates that run fishing on the rivers definitely run them - although that is probably more to do with 'marketing' for the executive rod brigade.
I have the the benefit of having one at work, which means all the useful bits of them without the maintenance and running costs.
Can't say I find the new ones anymore cramped than the older ones, driving position seems the same, all the extra bits of dashboard just house a heater that actually works and puts the radio somewhere you can see it. Only downside is no flat dash top to put your mug on at lunch.
6 speed box is great for longer/faster trips.
Got the 2.2 now, think we preferred the 2.4, the smaller engine needs pushing harder, but maybe that is what you're supposed to do so as to run the turbo more?
We have a 130 which comes with heavy duty springs as standard and used to have a 110 with them too, well worthwhile if you tow a lot at full weight, this was highlighted by a 110 tipper with standard springs that was like a bouncy castle with trailer carrying a power harrow.
From 200tdi on they are all fine mechanically, each engine has its own benefits and pitfalls, the issues are with the structural parts and the same items throughout, if it can rust, it will and sooner than you would think. There are also lemons, one of the other guys had a 110 cc that went through more parts than the other 4 put together in the same period, seemed to eat power steering boxes.
Loads of room in mine
Then you're an odd shape or don't sit in the drivers seat.
Land Rover. Especially good for delivering people in the crouched position, since that's how you'll sit. I drove every military variant and they were all an unusual form of torture.
They have become the new must-have accessory down here in Surrey for wealthy middle class families who are too "cool" for a discovery or a range rover sport. You see them parked all over these days with not a spec of mud on them.
I've posted about mine before. I think they're great, and I use mine on the road. They have their quirks, but overall they're not as bad as a lot of folk here are making out. It fits me really well (6ft but skinny) and I've never baulked at driving long distances. In fact, I find it very dependable, even on those difficult journeys. This is my third one, and I've done over 200,000 miles in this one alone, so I am used to them now. I was certainly apprehensive when I bought my first one, even after borrowing one for an extended test drive over a long weekend. However, I've not looked at another car since, apart from recently when I've started to ponder what else might be available, but I'd hate to give up the Land Rover.
If you do get one can I advise you to get a pedal box lock. It's about the only thing that will stop one getting knicked. Even crappy ones are getting knicked for parts these days.
Even crappy ones are getting knicked for parts these days.
Bloody hell!
Why do people buy them to drive on the road? 😯 my dad has one (old diesel 90), it never goes further than 20miles and is used to get round a wood for logging and for dealing with shot game or moving things that don't fit in a car boot. It's very good at specific things but an everyday road car isn't one of them. The gearbox has caused a load of problems too. Parts are reasonable price though.
We have a 90 for the farm, it's pretty good for that and North York Moors to-ing and fro-ing but that's it, tows a small cattle trailer (2cows) reasonably with a good hoof from yer right foot and a sort of swinging/windscreenwiper arm motion on the steering wheel... Mostly we use a Ford Ranger though, properly agricultural too but 98% more comfortable and easy to drive than the 90. But... The 90 does most of the heavy lifting around the farm...
I like them, they have their place.
Have had a selection of Landys from Series 2 'lightweight' through to RRC. Even 'snatch' and WMIK variants (through work).
Absolutely loved all of them and am glad I have had them, with a soft spot for my 2.5td converted ex RAF 90 hardtop but I don't really miss them as useable vehicles on the road nearly all of the time. I would have one again if there was room in the garage for a play vehicle but I'd probably look for a Series 88" instead in that case.
If you want one, buy one. Well worth owning once in your life even if just to scratch the itch but bear in mind you will be in the 'wrong' vehicle 80% of the time.
Oh, 6'2" here and the 'snatch' was the only one I had problems with; my head hit the air con unit bolted into the roof.