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Been away for a couple of nights and the boiler has been switched off. Come back and there’s a pool of water surrounding it in the garage.
All the water inlet valves that I can see are not the cause, it appears to be right under the base of the boiler.
Any ideas what could be causing it?
Off ? How come was it broke?
As it's been off - Frozen pipe or heat exchanger ?
Equally ... Rusty heat exchanger
Is it a grant ? The plastic flow switches are prone to failing which leads to escape of water.
How old is it?
Might be the water jacket/heat exchanger gone in which case it's possibly toast.
😬
Hopefully It's something less serious.
Mine also did this earlier in the year. Ours is an oil combi and the tank had sprung a leak about 3/4 of the way up the tank near one of the structural welds.
Removed it, got it welded and put it back together.
Off off? Probably some joints have contracted and are weeping water if it's the first time it's been cold for a while. Is it still holding pressure for the central heating? If so, check the joints for drips to see if you can find the culprit. I'd be inclined to fire it back up and get it warm.
Happend on ours, heat exchanger joint started weeping when it was cold, nipped up the fitting then got it hot and away she went.
Off as in turned the central heating and hot water off when we left the house on Christmas Eve.
It’s holding pressure fine and working ok now back on.
We have no idea how old it is, at least 12 yrs but beyond that we have no idea. It’s a Firebird if that makes any odds.
Had problems in the last few months of boiler pressure going up but appears Tito have been stable recently
Is it actually a leak and could it be condensation from suddenly shutting off a heat exchanger?
(total guess, I've no idea about these things)
Firebird if that makes any odds.
So it's not a combi.
We had a Firebird when we first moved in here..... It would randomly and inexplicably leak then be fine. Was a propper piece of crap-although we were not its first owner.....a bit of googling revealed it to be pretty much the cheapest oil boiler at the kw required with the reviews to match. I never once found the source of the water that would pool round it in the garage at times.
Now I understand why you would turn it off when leaving home.
It’s a Firebird if that makes any odds
We have one (a combi). It’s crap.
We now leave the HW on 24 hours, because it always leaks if allowed to cool down. It has repeatedly leaked from the heat exchanger connections (new, improved seals are available, but not 100% reliable); The automatic vent on top of the boiler which is impossible to remove without completely dismantling the thing; The isolation valves that leak around the spindles if disturbed; And pretty much every joint at some point or another.
The actual boiler / burner are fine; it’s just all the ancillaries are crap.
So we dont know what to do:
Just spoke to the manufacturer and they said it will be at least 15 yrs old but they cant say for certain.
On closer inspection of the boiler there is corrosion all over it. Makes me wonder if the bloke who owned and built the house took it from one of his projects (as he did with the > 20 yr old oil tank he left us and we had to replace last year)
No leaks again yet, but we are wondering whether to just replace with a modern Combi Oil burner to save lots of hassle.
Ground source heat pumps are not possible, air source would be but they are chuffing expensive!
So we half think why not just change to a more efficient modern boiler with instant hot water.
I went from fire bird system boiler and tank to a grant vortex eco 26 external 10+ years ago. For space reasons...... Cost us 1800 quid
It's been great for us Don't regret it one bit.
How ever if I have to replace it again in the near future it'll be back to a system boiler and tank as it opens up options for future and allows me to set up our solar waste energy to immerersion and since we did the boiler we have had an extension that affords us the space for the tank again.
If it's any use, as an idea on price we've just had a new Worcester Danesmoor (external) fitted and plumbed into existing heating/pressurised HW system. Cost was about £5k, but it was a bit more complicated as it was replacing a Rayburn so they had to run some pipes out to the new boiler position and, well, remove the Rayburn which was a job in itself. A straight in-position swap would likely be a chunk cheaper.
I have a >30 year old boiler that's simply a big box with baffles inside and a burner bolted to the front.
Years ago I was thinking about changing it for a more efficient model and the advice from my [trusted] plumbers is not to change the boiler until the water jacket goes - modern boilers are simply not made the same.
Years ago I was thinking about changing it for a more efficient model and the advice from my [trusted] plumbers is not to change the boiler until the water jacket goes – modern boilers are simply not made the same.
My heating engineer has said exactly the same as this. My 30-year-old boiler is a very basic thing, and parts are readily available (new oil pump fitted last month), although there's not much to go wrong. He said that new ones are a tad more efficient, but the £2-3000 replacement cost buys a lot of oil and would be uneconomical. He basically said keep it running until water starts pouring out of it, and which point it's definitely dead.
I regularly take the front off the box and vacuum the baffles as the build-up of crap affects the efficiency.
Fingers crossed it'll carry on behaving [kiss of death there then!]
Re the last 2 posts - this is kind of what our plumber said when we were having problem with the pressure vessel a couple of months back
Being a tight Yorkshire Man, I dont want to have to pay him to come out, tighten a bolt, and then in a months time it goes bang
I have a >30 year old boiler that’s simply a big box with baffles inside and a burner bolted to the front.
Years ago I was thinking about changing it for a more efficient model and the advice from my [trusted] plumbers is not to change the boiler until the water jacket goes – modern boilers are simply not made the same.
+1
Our jacket occasionally leaks a bit but normally it self seals again with rust!
modern boilers are simply not made the same
Yeah your right but a Firebird is not a bastion of quality of a 30 year old over built boiler
They were pretty budget when new.
No leaks again yet, but we are wondering whether to just replace with a modern Combi Oil burner to save lots of hassle.
Rather than rushing in, I would budget to replace it when convenient.
yeah, i go through the same thought process every time something fails on our outdoor combi (Warmflow something) but i've managed to fix it each time. Pumps, flow switch, magic eye in the burner and a couple of other small items have failed. I've replaced them for not much money (diy) then it's fired up and away again. Most (all) could have failed on any boiler in reality, so whilst i've contemplated replacing the whole thing each time, i'm basically putting a small amount aside each month for when it fails catastrophically!
At the moment its triggers broom!
No leaks again yet, but we are wondering whether to just replace with a modern Combi Oil burner to save lots of hassle.
@FunkyDunc - my recent quote for a replacement Worcester Bosch Heatslave 20/25 oil combi was £5700 including VAT...
I dismantled the thing, took the water jacket to a tame welder, had it patched and put back into service for £115 including tools and new insulation. 26 years old.
Rather than rushing in, I would budget to replace it when convenient.
Thats the thing we do have the cash to do it now, but it is still working ...for now
Next time I go away for a weekend, I dont want to come back to another big puddle on the floor, but then I also dont want to pay £100 for a plumber to tighten a bolt and then something else break in 6 months time.
Its in the garage so there wasnt a great deal of water damage, but the thing itself is rusty as hell, it surly cant be as efficient as a new one, and I like the idea of having hot water when we want it rather than occasionally coming in from a bike ride cold and wet and having to wait for the water to heat up
It astonishes me that it costs several thousand pounds for a glorified kettle. What the hell is inside them that costs so much? Literally the only other thing I own which requires annual servicing is the car and I'd assume that's slightly more complicated than a gas burner and a water pump.
it surly cant be as efficient as a new one
It won't be, but it's doubtful the increase in efficiency will ever pay back the cost of a new boiler plus installation.
Think about it..... if you use 1500L/year a 15% improvement in efficiency will save 225L of oil which equates to about £115 at current oil prices.
At that rate a £3000 new boiler will take 26 years to pay off - and that new boiler certainly won't last that long!
Put the money you have now into premium bonds and wait.
I’d assume that’s slightly more complicated than a gas burner and a water pump.
this statement is correct - but its not referring to the car - but infact the boiler.
Next time I go away for a weekend, I dont want to come back to another big puddle on the floor,
dont turn it off when you go away then .
I still cannot fathom that thought process - kick it on to frost protection possibly but in the middle of winter to turn your boiler off leaves you and your house open to all sorts of fun and games.
all to save a quid of oil.
if you use 1500L/year a 15% improvement in efficiency will save 225L of oil which equates to about £115 at current oil prices.
We get through probably 4,000 ltrs a year !
I still cannot fathom that thought process – kick it on to frost protection possibly but in the middle of winter to turn your boiler off leaves you and your house open to all sorts of fun and games.
Ok - its not switched off at the wall, just we set the EvoHome controller to 'away' which means unless the temp drops below 5 deg in any room the boiler will not fire.
Needless to say Xmas was warm and the boiler did not need to fire. 2 nights away led to a massive puddle of water, a week and I would be back to a swimming pool.
So far I had got as far as looking at new boilers online that were coming out around the £2k mark, I didnt think that would double with fitting !
Ok – its not switched off at the wall, just we set the EvoHome controller to ‘away’ which means unless the temp drops below 5 deg in any room the boiler will not fire.
Needless to say Xmas was warm and the boiler did not need to fire. 2 nights away led to a massive puddle of water, a week and I would be back to a swimming pool.
thats different .
I certainly wouldnt "not" be replacing it to save a few bob if thats what was happening when i went away. thats a liability.
If its a straight swap it should not double the cost. its when you start changing systems and removing pipe work adding pipe work etc etc the cost goes up.
Leaks when it cools down you say? Highly likely its the expansion vessel.
I was in a similar position re: new for old recently, but with gas and also applying the 'dont replace it till its dead' doctrine - my boiler was 40 years old.
Given the price of gas increase, the payback period suddenly shortened and at the same time it finally rusted through the heat exchanger.
I've had the new one installed for about 2 months now. Its guaranteed for 10 years and its consumed half the gas the old one did compared to the same period last year.
Why wouldn't you just turn the thermostat down, to 10-15 say?
We get through probably 4,000 ltrs a year !
We've got a constantly-on AGA and an old Mill and use 3000l PA, yet you're a man that sounds like he switches off the heat to turn the bacon - do you live in a castle?
Pic doesnt do it justice, but thats after mopping up. That shelf unit has now delaminated and the plaster on the wall is damp but drying out.
4,000 ltrs may be slightly excessive, but its certainly more than 3,000ltrs as we went from a 2,500ltr tank to a 1,500ltr tank last year - A 12 yr old house built by a builder. We recently re did a bathroom to find no insulation under the suspended floor, there was minimal insulation in the loft which I have solved where I can, but much of the roof space is not accessible. One of the rooms downstairs (biggest in the house) is double height, straight in to the roof. I had to replace a tile after the recent storms, and I am not convinced there is more than one layer of thin reflective insulation up there so not only are you heating 2 floors worth to get the heat at ground level, its also disappearing straight outside
you’re a man that sounds like he switches off the heat to turn the bacon – do you live in a castle?
That's frightening - at least double what we use in a large 4 bed detatched!
That boiler looks pretty small and certainly not in the same league as my monster. For some reason I think the smaller they are the more likely they are to go wrong! And yes thats a lot of water and I'd be looking to swap it out if it's not easily fixed.
Hate to say it but are you sure your house was build by a 'builder'?!
Double height rooms are bonkers. A house we lived in when I was a kid had a lovely double height living room with stairs and a balcony at one end.... it was always lovely and warm up on the balcony.
mines a 1950s corporation build 3bed semi on the end exposed to the north sea wind atop a hill......
we don't get through 1400l(1 full tank) a year ..... my last fill i didnt even get 1000l in
But then i do have an electric shower 😉
OP. We had a 15 year old firebird, absolute car crash of a boiler. Just replaced with a Bosch Worcester unit and smart thermostats. Crack on I say!
4,000 ltrs may be slightly excessive, but its certainly more than 3,000ltrs as we went from a 2,500ltr tank to a 1,500ltr tank last year
Surely you know how much you buy, especially as it doubled in price last year and 1500l works out at somewhere approaching £900.
We've a remote measuring unit, and I actually record each time it drops a 'bar'. I did this originally to understand better whether we should leave the AGA on permanently at a constant setting or turn it up/down based on what we were doing. It's a good way of also knowing when it's due a service, as the usage increases when it's 'ready'.
We use 1500-2000l a year dependent on how windy/cold it is in the winter period. 4 bed detached house in a very exposed rural location using the boiler for water and heating inc showers. The temperature here when it's cold is routinely 4deg lower than in the town only 7 miles away. Coupled to the wind chill, it's more like 6-7 deg lower. 2021 was 1500l despite all the work from home.
Its guaranteed for 10 years and its consumed half the gas the old one did compared to the same period last year.
It's hard to compare as last winter was colder up to this point - you're probably using less fuel though anyway.