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Ray Mears on GB News having a cosy chat with Farage. :-/
Why would you feel the need to draw attention to this, let alone link to the bloody stuff and drive up views?
😢 not going to watch that 😢 Looks at Rays autobiography and the pile of brashings ready to burn in the garden...
I can only hope he has some plan to get into their inner circle...and then do something subversive to it.
Otherwise, I'm hugely disappointed.
As for the whole "look, i'm a normal bloke with a pint" thing...couldn't be more cringe.
At least Ray is just drinking water and making it look even more ridiculous.
As a youth Ray was a childhood hero, so I'm just going to pretend this never happened.
I can only hope he has some plan to get into their inner circle…and then do something subversive to it
He has spent months tracking them by their spoor. He'll now eat them..
I'm disappointed.
Keen interest in military history, likes field sports, of a certain age - it's hardly a massive surprise is it?
I couldn't watch it all but it all seemed along the lines of 'everything used to be better back in the olden days'. I don't necessarily disagree about the value of things like scouts but Farage just likes it because it's conservative and christian and white (in his head at least).
Why would you feel the need to draw attention to this, let alone link to the bloody stuff and drive up views?
Why would you feel the need to reply, also driving up views?
Oh no, I really wanted to do one/some of his courses
In fairness Ray's apparent Gammon alignment is only one facet, and it's entirely possible to separate 'Ice fishing, starting a fire with twigs, making shelters with a fallen tree' Ray from (presumably*) 'Brexity, right-wing' Ray (*I'm not watching a GB news video).
As a non-GB News Viewer/FB frother, I wasn't really aware of Ray's political leanings until you posted this thread, and TBH I still don't really care.
If Ray wants to participate in the RW broadcast echo-chamber that is GB news, so be it. He's leant no more relevance/legitimacy to it...
I think this thread is an interesting example of the zero-sum approach to politics and opinions that has become predominant.
I think Ray Mears survivally, bushcrafty stuff is really interesting, he's clearly an expert and has a passion for both it and his belief that we should be closer to nature that he wants to pass on to others, and I agree with him on that. He may have voted for Brexit, I dunno, but if he did then I disagree with him on that. It's entirely possible to differentiate between the two though.
These days we seem to find it harder and harder to 'agree to disagree' on stuff, and instead are only willing to respect anything people if we agree with them about everything. It's crazy.
With all the Brexit shortages, we'll be forced to forage for food!
It’s a Shame about Ray
Bugger, too slow - I was going to do that!
I thought it was well known he was a strong right winger.
People are complex, who'd have thought it? What a surprise.
Okay, I don't quite have the attention span for 13 mins of Farage time, but did Ray start shouting about rivers of bloody, or sending anyone "back"?
From what I managed, he talked about outdoor life, about helping young people learn to think about the community and not only of themselves, about re-wilding and the benefit of being outdoors.
If anyone managed to watch it all and there was some kind of nasty smoking gun revealing Ray to be a deep seated and bitter far-right bigot, then, go burn his book in your garden (book burning being a shady thing to do given history).
If, he just talked about the stuff he usually talks about in his usual measured, open-minded way, then do we really make him a monster because he appeared on GBNews?
He's taking over from Neil Oliver while he's on holiday, so it's more than just an interview
Why would you feel the need to reply, also driving up views?
My point, clearly missed, is that you're actually paying for the things you dislike so much.
You're creating a thread, to moan about farage and mears which, whilst I can't say I see the point or value in doing so, is absolutely your prerogative, and then you're cheerleading and paying them by posting the video. It's almost as blindly hypocritical as farage.
You could pass comment without posting the video, or a link, anyone so inclined as to watch it could Google it perfectly easily.
Thought this was quoting Kevin and Perry
I thought it was well known he was a strong right winger.
I've no idea of his politics TBH. I don't think I've ever heard him express any views, and never seen it mentioned in any interview about him.
I'm not saying he should be cancelled or whatever, I still like his shows but it's sad to me that someone who seems so gentle and open to learning from different cultures is involved with a nasty bigot who promotes division and racist conspiracy theories.
You could pass comment without posting the video, or a link, anyone so inclined as to watch it could Google it perfectly easily.
No one has to click the link or watch the video and if you think a few clicks from a mtb forum is going to earn GB News any significant amount of money then I think you need to learn a bit more about how YouTube works.
He’s taking over from Neil Oliver while he’s on holiday, so it’s more than just an interview
Oh jeez!
I’ve no idea of his politics TBH. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him express any views, and never seen it mentioned in any interview about him.
Never struck me as a political type, I'm disappointed but not totally surprised if he has those views. Which he's entitled to hold, even if I disagree with them.
As others have said, people are complicated, and it's possible to admire one side but oppose another.
sigh.
I agree that you can admire/like Ray for his bushcraft etc, but be disappointed at him for appearing on GB news and interviewing Farage.
To me, supporting Brexit/farrage demonstrates one of two things: Either a fundemental ignorance of how modern trade, international relations etc works, or a kind of malicious desire to flip over the table and return us to some rose-tinted, Enid Blighton version of the 1950s.
I'm sad to learn that Ray fits into one of these categories. Or maybe he's just hard-up and needed the cash?
If, he just talked about the stuff he usually talks about in his usual measured, open-minded way, then do we really make him a monster because he appeared on GBNews?
yes - because he is lending support to a foul racist who has caused this country huge damage and his "celebrity" will help drive support for a far right propaganda programme
I’ve no idea of his politics TBH. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him express any views
Ray Mears went to the same school and at the same time as Keir Starmer, he's 2 years younger. Maybe it's just a coincidence or maybe at the time Reigate Grammar School employed a teacher who was able to turn pupils into experts at delivering substance-free meaningless platitudes........ which everyone can agree on
https://www.gbnews.uk/a/139051
I too am a bit disappointed. Never been a RM fanboi until oddly last week buying one of his books for work which is a rather lovely read.
Yes, bushcraft and your political leanings can be separated but......this is GB News. Any sane celeb must surely look at GB News generally and Farage specifically and think 'do I want to associate myself with that?'. Even a pretty blue blooded tory boy would need to think very hard before plunging down that rabbit hole. To go ahead anyway and nail your 'celeb' name to their credibility either makes you massively naïve or well and truly bought into it. Either is diminishing imo.
That unbearable dick Gryls has already made a fool of himself with super-staged and scripted guff. Now Mears.
Odd that he should be worshiped by the same people who laugh at Trump-voting armed-to-the-teeth redneck survialist Americans with a bunker. Fact is his "skills" are worthless in this modern world but those laughable Americans might be proved right one day.
If you're really worried, don't take flights that fly over wilderness zones. I can't see how else you'd end up in a wilderness with no more than the clothes you're standing up in. The intelligent forward thinking types we are would gather adequate equipment and supplies before even setting out up Clee Hill, as many threads here prove.
Weird man gets weirder.
^ whut?
^ whut
Indeed.
These days we seem to find it harder and harder to ‘agree to disagree’ on stuff, and instead are only willing to respect anything people if we agree with them about everything. It’s crazy.
Not really. I don't have to agree with Ray on everything but if I agree with him on absolutely nothing and am polar opposite on every one of his political views then that is a different thing isn't it?
I don't care about "Agree to disagree", I will always hate someone like Farage for what he is and the views he holds.
At least it creates a space on our bookshelf now. For STW completeness I recommend
https://books.google.com/books/about/Norwegian_Wood.html?id=h7exCAAAQBAJ
He's written an article for them...
It's not contentious, and takes a swing at both parties. I think you'd struggle to parse out his politics from it.
Weird man gets weirder.
Indeed. Anyway about Mears.
Fact is his “skills” are worthless in this modern world
I think you've completely misunderstood the point of the shows. They are done out of interest, they aren't presented as instructional. The ones telling the stories of real life survival incidents demonstrate that, as well as the ones where he tried to recreate ancient European hunter gatherer techniques with an archaeologist. You're not supposed to ever need to do this stuff.
Your masculinity seems very fragile Educator. I predict a robust response to this slight 😉
I get what Ed is driving at, there's a continuum that has Ray Mears at one end, and apocalypse-ready survivalists at the other. They're miles apart but the same DNA runs through all of them, and in the same way regardless of whether you're a photo-copier salesman in Surry or a bush pilot in Interior BC; everyone's thought the same thing at some point...Could I survive?
^ whut?
This thread is full of whut.
Not totally surprised Mears is taking this tack though.
He stands to profit massively when we're all reduced to foraging for our food a few years post-Brexit.
Not totally surprised Mears is taking this tack though.
He stands to profit massively when we’re all reduced to foraging for our food a few years post-Brexit.
This is just silly.
But an outdoors middle aged white bloke into huntin,shootin,fishin being a bit right wing - that's not a massive leap of imagination.
But he won't be sitting there waiting for armageddon hoping his book sales will see an improvement.
This is just silly.
Thanks, it was supposed to be.
😀
But an outdoors middle aged white bloke into huntin,shootin,fishin being a bit right wing – that’s not a massive leap of imagination.
I think chakaping maaaaay have been joking.
But to answer your point, I guess he never came across as the colonial type adventurer and seemed genuinely interested and empathetic when he went to places to learn about their culture and traditions etc - which seems a polar opposite to Farage and GB News. Their common ground seems to be a contempt for the modern world.
Fitting that Norwegian Wood is published by Hachette.
With all the Brexit shortages, we’ll be forced to forage for food!
Maybe that's why he voted for it to drive up his book sales before money becomes worthless?
Their common ground seems to be a contempt for the modern world.
I've not bothered clicking the link, but does Mears express contempt for the modern world?
Well he has previously claimed Britain is becoming a 'nation of snowflakes' and the only bit of the chat I could stomach was very much about all the things we are now getting wrong as a society and how we used to be better.
I don't necessarily disagree that things like scouts and Sunday school etc have some merit and I definitely think we should be more in touch with nature and resilient/self-sufficient as a society, but I don't think harking back to a supposed ideal past is in itself very helpful, especially not with a nasty piece of work like Farage.
Can't help the feeling that for Farage at least it's harking back to a whiter Britain where things were even more set up for people like them to get ahead, and 'foreigners' and the working classes knew their place.
I think this thread is an interesting example of the zero-sum approach to politics and opinions that has become predominant.
I don’t think the above is at all reflective of peoples objections. For myself, whilst I hold strong left-wing, socialist views, I don’t object to Ray Mears holding different views.
What is fundamentally abhorrent is that he’s chosen to appear on a network that has actively employed presenters - not simply right-wing, but actually dehumanise people on the grounds of their origin and supports action counter to international law.
We cannot keep pretending that people are simply being less-tolerant of political difference. We have a situation, where in many nations the political spectrum has shifted hugely to the right* - even to getting facist policies into the mainstream. I don’t think anyone needs to apologise for objecting strongly and indeed being sickened by those type of policies.
*Largely not mirrored by a swing to the left on the other side of of politics.
I don’t necessarily disagree that things like scouts and Sunday school etc have some merit
On a personal level the dodgiest people my parents ever confided me to were those very two institutions. Interesting that you put the scouts and sunday school in the same sentence. So do Charlie Hebdo:
https://charliehebdo.fr/jeux/quiz/feriez-vous-un-bon-cure-scout-pedophile/
Of course you could point out incidents in football clubs, cycling clubs etc, but the unquestioning discipline that is demanded by both religion and the Scouts makes them very comfortable places for those that like controlling kids to their own ends. The Charlie Hebdo image nicely combines the two. On a more serious note:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/25/uk-ireland-child-sexual-abuse-scout-movement
It's devout Christian Tory family Grylls who champions the scouts though with talk of millions of tax payers money. Google tells me Mears has taken the Mickey out of "boy scout Grylls".
As a current scout leader I'm not sure if you would regard me as a potential fascist or a kiddie fiddler.
Personally I was never a fan of Ray, and his Pints with Prats thing just underlines it.
Fact is his “skills” are worthless in this modern world
I beg to differ.
He problem solves, he knows how to overcome adversity, tiredness, fear and uncertainty, he is connected to the land and nature, he communicates well (although scripted!) and connects with people while able to understand thier history and heritage, knows how to manage resources and live sustainably.
I think it's more than relevant to modern life.
Just because someone has different views to me, doesn't mean I won't work with them, listen to them or even be friends with them. 🤷♀️
As a current scout leader I’m not sure if you would regard me as a potential fascist or a kiddie fiddler.
Same here. It's nice to have the options though 🙂
but the unquestioning discipline that is demanded by both religion and the Scouts
Someone's never been to one of my Scout meetings. Just an effing tad of occasional discipline would be nice...
(Although, at the risk of getting off topic, I find the saluting the flag bit a little uncomfortable if I'm honest)
I mentioned scouts and Sunday school because they were mentioned in the bit of the interview that I saw. I went to both and didn't have any particularly negative experiences, though I'd rather they existed without the religious indoctrination and royalist/patriotic/militaristic stuff (maybe they do now?).
Just because someone has different views to me, doesn’t mean I won’t work with them, listen to them or even be friends with them.
I'm not sure anyone has actually suggested that so it's a bit of a straw man.
Being right wing is one thing though, GB News and Farage are borderline far right and he has said numerous deeply unpleasant things. If we can call Corbyn hard left Farage is definitely hard right.
So ray mears is interviewed by farage…doesn’t mean he’s endorsing him or aligning with his views, even if some of his views are aligned….we all have some element of our opinions that are aligned as we all Orr alike than we are different. It’s a paid interview and RM needs to earn an income like everyone.
This really is an bigoted view that you self sensor anyone you don’t agree with or like. Ok I wouldn’t expect people to be going out hunting farage content, but to completely censor him is ignorant and bigoted. Being informed in your political views means to understand and engage in the other arguments. You don’t need to have empathy with them. Ignoring farage and not engaging people like him in sensible, educated, informed debate is to roll out the red carpet and let them win. It is those who don’t engage or express competing and alternative opinions in a compelling way who to are 100% responsible for their success.
This really is an bigoted view that you self sensor anyone you don’t agree with or like.
Who is being censored here exactly?
Ignoring farage and not engaging people like him in sensible, educated, informed debate is to roll out the red carpet and let them win.
If the last few years have proved anything it's what a total fallacy it is that engaging people with educated opinions achieves anything.
Just an effing tad of occasional discipline would be nice
+1! It is supposed to be youth led, so if that’s what they want!
As a current scout leader I’m not sure if you would regard me as a potential fascist or a kiddie fiddler.
*Makes note in case IHN comes up in my next AAC committee*
Can’t help the feeling that for Farage at least it’s harking back to a whiter Britain where things were even more set up for people like them to get ahead, and ‘foreigners’ and the working classes knew their place
I think you have it right there except the foreigner bit. He would always be ok with his wealthy foreign friends. It's just a anyone below upper middle class.
Pretty certain scouts is multi faith, no faith, and you probably don't even need to mention God and the Queen when being invested? I could be wrong tho as it's been a while since I've helped out at a meeting.
Pretty certain scouts is multi faith, no faith, and you probably don’t even need to mention God and the Queen when being invested?
Correct. If the kid doesn't want to mention God then they don't have to.
Our lot are having a coached session on the BMX track at the NCC tonight, so I doubt that The Queen will get much of a look in either.
Back on topic. RM isn’t stupid. By going on Farage’s nocturnal emission he knew exactly what message it would send out.
Pretty certain scouts is multi faith, no faith, and you probably don’t even need to mention God and the Queen when being invested? I could be wrong tho as it’s been a while since I’ve helped out at a meeting.
It certainly is.
Doesn't stop the detractors criticising it for what it was 20+ years ago though. Prejudice without checking facts is never a good thing.
I was a cub and scout leader for 20ish years - happy to report that I’m not a paedo.
It really is a very progressive organisation - most people’s perception is not supported by reality.
What is fundamentally abhorrent is that he’s chosen to appear on a network that has actively employed presenters – not simply right-wing, but actually dehumanise people on the grounds of their origin and supports action counter to international law.
Ken Livingstone's been on with Farage....
On the topic of Scouts, Scouting was brilliant for me, did loads of brilliant outdoor stuff. My kids either are or will be involved in the Scout movement.
I have nothing but respect for the adults who give up their time to give kids the opportunity to get outdoors.
If the kid doesn’t want to mention God then they don’t have to.
They (and the leaders) do have to swear to do their duty to the Queen though, which I don't really like. FWIW, I'm not a rabid republican, I just think don't feel I (or they) have a duty to the Queen, and it's part of the quasi-military, days-of-empire roots of Scouting that is no longer appropriate.
But, a you say, back on topic...
It really is a very progressive organisation – most people’s perception is not supported by reality.
My perception is based on when I went to scouts, I'm glad it's become more progressive. I wouldn't feel comfortable getting my kids to swear allegiance to the Queen though, for exactly the reasons IHN states.
Ken Livingstone’s been on with Farage….
Ken Livingstone also has poor judgement.
It really is a very progressive organisation
Which is why folks like Farage think it was "better in the old days" when it wasn't (like every other children's organisation was back in the 60's, 70's and 80's.) This is why folks like Ray going onto programmes like this is so dangerous. Ray seems like a moderate fellow and his view that people and children were more self reliant, and that groups like the scouts and Saturday and Sunday schools had something to offer and made for more outdoor focused kids can be used by Farage to co-opt him into agreeing with that myth.
It also raises the spectre of encouraging the development of children's organisations that are defined by their alignment with right and far right ideologies. (monarchy, militarism, hierarchies and so on)
They (and the leaders) do have to swear to do their duty to the Queen though
This was my experience when my son was in the scouts and I very much disagreed with it. That said, he had a great time in the Scouts. Some of the activity weekends away were amazing. He really enjoyed chariot racing in particular. Although a little archaic in some ways it is a fantastic organisation and kudos to the guys on here who help out.
Back on topic. Farage is a **** and Mears has plummeted in my estimations by associating with GBNews.
Our lot are having a coached session on the BMX track at the NCC tonight, so I doubt that The Queen will get much of a look in either.
This.
Speaking as someone who has 'promised' to do my duty to God and to the Queen, I'm not really sure what problem it's causing me? My duty to both isn't defined anywhere.
I'm not sure anyone will ever hold me to it if duty is defined anywhere.
I also promised to "help other people". That's a much harder promise to stick to although the quantity of help isn't specified.
In contrast I got camping, wide games, kayaking, sailing, map reading, hiking, countless other stuff. Some of my mates got to try gliding. It's good on a CV if you don't have much else. I don't feel I was short changed by the promise. (I'm also pretty sure I could have coughed/gone silent at the God/Queen bit an nobody would have noticed or cared.
In fact, on reflection, the whole thing is promised "on my honour". Didn't Shakespeare make the point that swearing on your honour doesn't have that much value unless you have a great deal of honour. I don't actually know how much honour I have, but again I can't imagine Her Maj requesting me do perform some duty and when I say 'sorry, too busy' she retorts "Well that really calls your levels of honour into question." And if she did, I'm not sure I'd care.
Ken Livingstone also has poor judgement.
Three years after the Referendum Livingstone was still campaigning to remain in the EU, quote :
"If I was an MP, I would be campaigning to say: this was a mistake. We must remain or you will lose your jobs. I suppose they worry that the party will be decimated if they do, but I can’t see the point unless you say what you believe."
Yes the Labour Party was decimated for refusing to fully accept the referendum result, 2 years after claiming that it would, and yes Livingstone has poor judgement.
Edit : As well as cosying up to Farage to boost his ridiculous image of the guy that everyone wants to share a pint with. ****
In fact, promising to do your duty doesn't require anything additional at all, it's already 'your duty'. It doesn't require additional duty, just the existing level of duty.
It's a promise to do what you already have to do.
don’t feel I (or they) have a duty to the Queen,
Then you're promising literally nothing.
Unless you do think you *do* have a duty to the Queen in which case you probably ought to do it even if you haven't promised as a child to do it.
In fact, on reflection, the whole thing is promised “on my honour”.
Indeed it is, and 'honour' is clearly a fairly ethereal thing. The way I've explained it to Scouts making the promise is that your 'honour' is the respect that you earn from other people, and that you earn and keep respect by, amongst other things, doing the things that you promise to do. So, it then feels a bit hypocritical to effectively say to them that it's important to keep your promises, but don't worry about the duty to God/Queen bit in your Scout promise, cos that doesn't really count.
Indeed it is, and ‘honour’ is clearly a fairly ethereal thing. The way I’ve explained it to Scouts making the promise is that your ‘honour’ is the respect that you earn from other people, and that you earn and keep respect by, amongst other things, doing the things that you promise to do. So, it then feels a bit hypocritical to effectively say to them that it’s important to keep your promises, but don’t worry about the duty to God/Queen bit in your Scout promise, cos that doesn’t really count.
I'd agree.
...but when they reach adulthood, if they ever feel constrained in some way, about 5 minutes thought will make them realize they promised pretty much nothing and let them off the hook, well it will make them realize there in fact is no hook. I wouldn't be surprised to find the bloke made up promise made it that way deliberately so as not to encumber kids with a hard commitment to live with.
Mind you I seem to recall the promise including keeping the scout law. I'll Google that now and see what I have to do....
A Scout is to be trusted.
A Scout is loyal.
A Scout is friendly and considerate.
A Scout belongs to the world-wide family of Scouts.
A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.
A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.
Well, I break 4 and 5 routinely. I'm breaking 5 by typing this!
I conclude Scouts is brilliant and the promise is non-binding and not a problem.
On further reflection the promise is to the Queen not 'all future reigning monarchs'.
So for a 10yo making the promise today, even if he does think he has some additional 'duty' (which he doesn't), it's not going to last long. He'll be free of it by the time he into his 20s.
So on the one hand a temporary promise which commits to nothing, predicated on a quantity of honour which is unmeasurable. On the other hand paddleboarding and wide games. 🤔
As someone who was subjected to a 3hr (scheduled 90mins) Ray Mears live 'experience', for once, my sympathy lies with Farage.
Jeez, some people must struggle through life being so literal.
On the topic of Scouts, Scouting was brilliant for me, did loads of brilliant outdoor stuff. My kids either are or will be involved in the Scout movement.
I have nothing but respect for the adults who give up their time to give kids the opportunity to get outdoors.
I've helped out in various support, committee and fundraising roles since my lad joined Beavers, and he's now an adult leader when he's not at uni. In that time he's tried loads of activities from sub aqua to gliding, had 3 weeks in the US and Canada as part of the 2019 Jamboree and done lots of other national and regional events, as well as setting up and running the district website. A shy little boy has become a well rounded young man who crucially appreciates that a lot of people volunteered their own time to help him achieve this, and gives back when he still can. And he has no time for religion or royalty.
(For balance, Guiding has done the same for my daughter, MrsMC is a Guide leader)
Helping out doesn't have to mean giving up 2 hours every Thursday - units and districts are crying out for people in the background to look after organisation, fundraising, social media stuff on a more casual basis. And if anyone reading this lives near Ilkeston and wants to give it a try, PM me!
had 3 weeks in the US and Canada as part of the 2019 Jamboree
Good point.
I never went abroad as a Scout but made friends with people from all over the world through Scouting events in the UK.
Positive IMHO.