[Closed] Officers down :o(

meanwhile, it turns out the event that started the riots last summer did in fact start with a scrote in possession of a gun and the police stopping the car he was in on the basis of intelligence they had received.

So hundreds of millions in damaged property, several people dead, many more seriously assaulted, and the reputation of the man that some of the "protesters" turns out to be as dodgy as some claimed at the time.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/tottenham-riots-mark-duggan-had-loaded-gun-110244005.html

They're after Dale Cregan aren't they? Looks like the final act in a pretty bitter dispute.

Yes Dale Cregan. Farmer John, these officers were nothing to do with what happened in London or the actions of others in another Force acting on their particular information.

Just checked and they were, two women officers, call me old fashioned but women shouldn't be on the front line in situations like this.

call me old fashioned but women's should be on the front line in situations like this

Old fashioned.

Just had a quick google, if a guy is known to carry guns and grenades around a city the size of Manchester why are they need sending in men or women with the ability to disable him instantly.

Very sad that any officer should risk their life or serious injury in the line of duty, unfortunately equality cuts both ways.

Fail online says

It is understood a grenade was used in the incident

Shit me thats gotta be scary

[quote=loddrik ]Just checked and they were, two women officers, call me old fashioned but women shouldn't be on the front line in situations like this.

you're old fashioned.

I was about 1/2 mile away from there doing a clinic at a GP's in Mottram. I parked my car on Ashworth Lane about 9. I am due to be in Hattersley Clinic this afternoon!! Lets see how that pans out.

I did have a patient come in about 11.30 who lives on the estate saying that there had been a shooting.. hopefully they will dispose of him!

Sad news.

Just checked and they were, two women officers, call me old fashioned but women shouldn't be on the front line in situations like this.

Very sad, my thoughts are with their families.

Loddrik you are a knob.

Just checked and they were, two women officers, call me old fashioned but women shouldn't be on the front line in situations like this.

I don't find it any worse that two female officers were killed than if two men had been killed. It's shit that any police officers die in the line of duty (and anyone else who is killed doing a job). It's certainly an aspect of their career but horrible nevertheless.

Why not?

70 years ago it would've been because they are "too emotional, irrational and prpne to hysterical behaviour".

These days opinions like this are old fashioned.

call me old fashioned but women's should be on the front line in situations like this

I'll call you patronising and chauvinistic too...

I had this conversation once with a sub mariner. He said he could close a hatch to a flooding compartment with his mate the other side if he had to. Not so sure he could do it if there was a woman the other side. Sometimes, the question isn't about the performance of women in such situations but how it might impact the situation as a whole.

Don't know if I agree with him or not but it's a point of view I'd not considered before.

Im not sure that being male would've protected them from a grenade or infact a bullet

[not that farmer john's bothered hes just sees it as an opportunity to try(and fail)to prove a completely unrelated point]

call me old fashioned but women's should be on the front line in situations like this

🙄

Oh dear.

Good point Onza, and the male reaction would be one of a million lifetimes of evolution telling him how to react if he saw a female in danger.

Interesting way of looking at it.

call me old fashioned but women shouldn't be on the front line in situations like this.

Blimey. What a dinasour

I assume that you would be a better person to volunteer for dangerous roles like this?

I'm guessing that these officers didn't realise he was in this empty building but were maybe checking any possible hide outs or simply patrolling the area.

That fact he walked in to a police station and gave himself up suggests it wasn't part of an organised operation to arrest him.

Incredibly sad and I hope he gets life with no chance of freedom.

Good point Onza, and the male reaction would be one of a million lifetimes of evolution telling him how to react if he saw a female in danger.

That's one theroy. Another would be that he has been conditioned by society into believing that women are inferior and need to be protected by the men. These things are never as clear cut as first impressions suggest.

Death sentence would be ideal for complete headers like him!

This thread was started in respect to 1 officer who has lost her life and another who is seriously injured, can we keep the thread to that please.

reported.

fred/mike relating the actions of the police in hillsborough two decades ago to the actions of those in tottenham last year is pathetic trolling.

to try to put a prejudiced slant on the events which led to Mark Duggan's death is ignorant and narrow-mined.

Loddrick - every thread every time...try and embarce the current century

Tragic loss of life whatever the gender

This thread was started in respect to 1 officer who has lost her life and another who is seriously injured, can we keep the thread to that please.

agreed, but best of luck!!

It appears that the officers weren't out to look for Cregan, they stumbled accross him and tried to arrest him. He has however, handed himself in.

Now hang the bastard.

Tragic loss of life whatever the gender

^^^^ +1

No arguements please.

Second officer also confirmed as died.

Very very sad. My lad's a bobby up that way, very worrying

Second officer is reported to have died. Sad day for Manchester.

Second officer has been confirmed as dying 🙁 very sad. They were only on a routine call apparently. Thoughts with their families.

Very sad day.........

That's truly tragic.

He's been arrested now though.
Sad news about the officers though.

my condolences to their family and friends 🙁

Thoughts with Family, Friends and colleagues of the officers.

This thread was started in respect to 1 officer who has lost her life and another who is seriously injured, can we keep the thread to that please.

I apologise if my comments were seen as 'disrespectful', because they weren't intended to be. However, i find it strange that comments that could be seen as disrespectful to the family of a man killed by police are allowed to stand, yet any challenge to that is censored. If a moderator would like to email me regarding this, I would appreciate it.

Second officer is reported to have died.

Doing a job that is most likely often boring, dangerous, thankless (at times) and down right dangerous.

RIP and thank you

The 'person' the two officers tried to arrest turned himself in at a police station soon afterwards according to the BBC. So he resisted arrest to the extent two officers were killed, then gave himself up.

An awesome individual.

I am a chauvinist, probably, but I can live with that and the wife takes no notice.

My point being that a suspect who has a history of violence, known to use weapons and likely to use them, presented with a one on one a woman is far less likely to be able to defend herself. Plus the consequences if she has children are even more devastating. Ok male officers have kids too but as someone who lost my mum early in life I can only comment on that aspect.

I certainly wouldn't want my wife or daughters put in that situation regardless of job requirements, I'd expect male colleagues to be first through the door.

We all know that my views differ from many on here but lets not turn this thread into a slanging match....

Edit, just ignore me, didn't realise this had been posted above

My point being that a suspect who has a history of violence, known to use weapons and likely to use them, presented with a one on one a woman is far less likely to be able to defend herself

But by your own thought processes, they'd also then be far less likely to be assaulted by said man because it's apparently in our nature to protect them.
But as you say this should really be moved to another thread.

If a moderator would like to email me regarding this, I would appreciate it.

you are fredrudeboysafety and i claim my 50p

So very sad for the officers families and their freinds/colegues etc.

Both doing a job they enjoyed, depite the lack of thanks at times from members of us the public.

Regardless of whether its safe or not- they responded and went into a situation. I'd class them as brave. Many a time folk may have done a risk assesment/waited and let someone get away. However we don't know the full story yet. The news reports that there was shots fired before- thats not gospel. Its a news report probably repeated from a eye witness/more likely overhead from someone.

according to the guardian

The officers, both of whom were unarmed, were attending a "routine incident" in Hattersley, Tameside, shortly before 11am on Tuesday when shots were reportedly fired.

Ok male officers have kids too but as someone who lost my mum early in life I can only comment on that aspect.

Lodrick - Having spent a childhood watching a father go off to work, sometimes knowingly to very dangerous situations, then hearing about dead or injured officers on the news, knowing that the media usually reported before the families were told; I can tell you that it's shit and it's nothing to do with gender.

There is no "right" parent to lose. I can assure you that had my mother been hospitalised on several occasions in the line of her work, I'd have felt no worse that when my father was.

I appreciate you lost a parent in early life but can you honestly say you feel you'd have been happier/better off if your father had passed away?

These were courageous women engaged in what is frequently thankless and difficult job. They paid the ultimate price, like many in public service do, so that the rest of us can be kept from harms way. My gratitude always goes to these people and my sympathies to their families and friends.

loddrik - Member
I am a chauvinist, probably, but I can live with that and the wife takes no notice.
My point being that a suspect who has a history of violence, known to use weapons and likely to use them, presented with a one on one a woman is far less likely to be able to defend herself.
BBC. News reported that they were attending a routine call and have obviously stumbled upon something more sinister.
Are you suggesting that only police officer without any family and are old should attend in case they die. Some very odd views on here
Sad day these ladies are the real heroes in society RIP

RIP Manchester colleagues

They were attending a routine incident Loddrick. Would you prefer it if there were no female officers and every parking violation and such was attended my an armed officer?

Just another reminder of how people can take for granted what situations these officers can walk into at anytime.

I've just finished my training as a special so wil be operational and on the streets in a weeks time. Something like this is a real eye opener.

RIP Girls x

These were courageous women engaged in what is frequently thankless and difficult job. They paid the ultimate price, like many in public service do, so that the rest of us can be kept from harms way. My gratitude always goes to these people and my sympathies to their families and friends.

+1

Im not sure that being male would've protected them from a grenade or infact a bullet

I wasn't trying to make any point other than linking today's tragedy with the stick the police took last year from various groups about a situation in which it's subsequently transpired they were dealing with a suspect with a loaded weapon - last year's events with Mark Duggan could have easily landed up with the same outcome as today - the common thread is that the police can find themselves with little or no warning in extremely difficult situations that most of us would run a mile from.

Your comments about last summers riots were ridiculous farmer john. And not related to this incident at all.

Unfortunately I think within the next decade all officers will have to carry a sidearm.

"yossarian - Member
Your comments about last summers riots were ridiculous farmer john. And not related to this incident at all."

I believe Farmer John makes a valid point but today is not the day to introduce it. Bit less of the knee jerk please.

What a bloody shame for all connected to this incident, this could have been any local/community bobby responding to a call. Am very interested to find out why he handed himself in, perhaps to save himself from the arm police manhunt.

This thread is a reminder of how crap STW can be when folk start their nonsense. Grow up children.

Terrible news. Thoughts with the families of the two officers.

These were courageous women engaged in what is frequently thankless and difficult job. They paid the ultimate price, like many in public service do, so that the rest of us can be kept from harms way. My gratitude always goes to these people and my sympathies to their families and friends.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly agreed.

Unfortunately I think within the next decade all officers will have to carry a sidearm

People have said this since the 80s. When Barry Prudom went on the rampage, there were loads of calls for arming police.

We all know that my views differ from many on here but lets not turn this thread into a slanging match....

Why thanks for posting your view again and then asking us not to comment on 🙄

Why not just STFU? as could you Farmer with your polemics.

Its still a tragedy afor the officers and that you two are posting on other stuff on this thread.

I sometimes find myself wondering whether this is a place for cyclists, or just randoms that like a fight.

(not aimed at any one person, just observation on direction some threads take)

RIP.

What a waste of precious lives.
Why oh why couldn't he have turned himself in before the shooting?

RIP ladies.

Its not a subject I want to fight about.

R.I.P to 2 of my colleagues
Some people on here are inhuman

RIP Manchester colleagues

Very sad to hear.

It is up to us to ensure Police work isn't "thankless"

Just hope he isn't seen as some hero in prison who "did" two coppers, when he actually is a lowlife scumbag who, at the end of the day shot and killed two unarmed women! What a big big man!!

terrible and pointless loss
the best job I ever had was work as police staff at GMP.
I really felt I was working with one big family,

very very sad 🙁

Just hope he isn't seen as some hero in prison who "did" two coppers,

unfortunately that's the way tings work in prison according to the mrs!

[s]Even two unarmed female officers?[/s] Rhetorical question answered.

I work in G.M.P and didn't know the 2 officers, have been in work today and am sitting at home feeling very subdued and upset.
Unsure why, but when things like this happen in the police , officers seem to take it badly.
maybe it's because we all put so much trust in each other, we trust our colleagues at incidents, and see so much tragedy together, we also feel it as a group when there is any loss.
Altogether a very sad day

Terrible.

when he actually is a lowlife scumbag who, at the end of the day shot and killed two unarmed women! What a big big man

And then handed himself in before the armed police turned up to find him.

Clearly of no worth to society. Clear cut case to string him up imo.

Thoughts are with the families.

Tragic and sad news. Thoughts go out to the families of those lost and the wider gmp and police family.

I work in G.M.P and didn't know the 2 officers, have been in work today and am sitting at home feeling very subdued and upset.
Unsure why, but when things like this happen in the police , officers seem to take it badly.
maybe it's because we all put so much trust in each other, we trust our colleagues at incidents, and see so much tragedy together, we also feel it as a group when there is any loss.
Altogether a very sad day

Unfortunately it is the realistaion that it could have been you or another close officer friend of yours

All jobs have risks, However yours are just so much more unpredictable than mine, but we need good folk to hold the thin blue line between us and them. Unfortunately sometimes it gets broken.

Chin up fella

The news from Manchester has been upsetting today and I am thinking of the colleagues and families of the two girls. I came on here which I do most evenings and I truly do despair of some peoples views, opinions and lack of basic human respect. I think I will now take an extended break from STW.
Thanks.

I am a police officer in Sheffield and the job we do is unique, boring sometimes and other times down right dangerous. It is NOT a normal job, just like the military isn't. My heart goes out to my fallen colleagues in Manchester, may you both rest in peace and Home Secretery, stop trying to devalue our service and destroy the reward that we surely earn, and pay for, sometimes with our lives.

Trevor.

Very sad and well said Trevor. My sister is a WPC in Cheshire and for the sh~t she takes on a daily basis the pay isn't that great.