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It wasn’t meant to be a patronising look-at-me post, simply to point out that cooking is not difficult, but there are plenty of people who try to make it complicated. Sorry if it sounded different.
I don't make it complicated. My kids make it complcated.
And they don't even have the common courtesy to make it complicated by having medical issues. They just make it complicated by being awkward little shits.
And yes, it's no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I'm honestly out of ideas) so when someone who has little angels comes along and says, 'It's so easy for me, people who aren't like me must be deficient in some way' then yes, it comes across as patronising.
Agree, it does sound like a parenting failure but I can't add anything to that as I was useless as a parent and am still paying the price for it 29 years later...
Apparently when I was 4 I had a battle of wills with my mother over food. "Sit there 'till its eaten" I sat there for hours till well beyond bedtime. 🙂
Apparently when I was 4 I had a battle of wills with my mother over food. “Sit there ’till its eaten” I sat there for hours till well beyond bedtime. 🙂
Like I said, my son went three days (vomited and almost passed out in the middle of the shops). I figured either I could cave or child services would make the problem someone else's.
And yes, it’s no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I’m honestly out of ideas)
My wife told me I wasn't allowed to starve them. Believe me, I tried. And I certainly haven't got a tribe of angels. <Patronising : who has/> 😀
But, don't take it personally, I know nothing about your tribe and am still not sure why you thought I was aiming it at your specific circumstances. It's a very simple conversation. Somebody said 'People can't cook properly unless one of the household (specifically wife!) is at home all day to shop and cook' (I believe 'for hours' may have been used). Several of us said, 'No, it's easy and quick to produce nutritious food.'
Like I said, my son went three days (vomited and almost passed out in the middle of the shops). I figured either I could cave or child services would make the problem someone else’s.
I guess the point is here - does that have anything at all to do with how long it takes to actually cook the meal?
I guess the point is here – does that have anything at all to do with how long it takes to actually cook the meal?
Yes.
Cooking from scratch every night was easy when it was just me and the missus. It was still relatively easy when the first kid was born.
Where it became much more difficult was when the kids started going to nursery and suddenly they were introduced to whatever they were giving them (ham sandwiches mostly, as far as I can work out).
Suddenly the kids realised they didn't need to eat our homemade pasta sauce anymore. They were getting enough bread and ham at nursery to survive and our freshly made food just wasn't a patch on the highly processed food products the nursery were giving them.
Now we have to either have a fight every single ****ing night to get the kids to take a few mouthfuls of our food or we can just make something (highly processed) that they will eat without a fight and we can take them to whatever activity they have that evening. Because it's easier to make one meal what do you think we all end up eating?
We asked the doctor if it was OK. He said so long as the kids were eating something they would be fine.
We both work, that's why the kids went to nursery. It's also why we don't have time to try to experiment, compromise, and do whatever else needs to be done to get the kids to eat our food.
Personally I'd prefer to just be a stay at home Dad but with the current costs of everything that's not really an option so we are pretty much stuck with this situation for now.
Grilled white fish, 2 veg and spuds. 20ish mins from opening the fridge to eating it
We steam all veg in microwave steamer now. Same with rice. Can’t afford to use the big cooker because of energy cost, so just use that to brown things and then do the rest in microwave or slow cooker.
Am looking into microwave pressure cooker. Small freezer was the best investment as it’s easier to cook a meal for 8 and then freeze them. 4 meals for two sorted in about an hour,
There’s some evidence that most fat on larger folks is subcutaneous, and isn’t overly harmful, the real harm comes form the metabolic diseases caused by fat around the organs.
Sadly I'm genetically programmed for fat to gather round my organs first, get it from my mum. I can gain 4-5kg in weight without it showing at all in the usual places and that's despite being a little bit tubby to start with.
and I’ve got some self-control
in 10 minutes of scoffing (my record is 6 minutes for one of those bags…).
No, you really haven’t.
The scoffing was for a bet, which I won. My prize was another bag of Skittles and a pint!
At least we don't have the bags they have over in the US. They're 2kg each! Got to be careful though as my sister is going to Florida at the end of the month and she is guaranteed to bring me one back. That's 14,000 calories in one bag that's sold almost everywhere and the last one I saw said Family Share Size on it.
Because it’s easier to make one meal what do you think we all end up eating?
Of course it is. That doesn't change the fact that I can cook a decent evening meal in 30 minutes, and so can you and anyone else. You choose not to, for your own reasons, and then tell me I'm wrong when I say it's not difficult.
They just make it complicated by being awkward little shits.
And yes, it’s no doubt a failure of parenting on my part (I tried starving them so I’m honestly out of ideas) so when someone who has little angels comes along and says, ‘It’s so easy for me, people who aren’t like me must be deficient in some way’ then yes, it comes across as patronising.
Entirely my distant memories. You start with "don't get into psychodrama with toddlers" and above all "don't let food be a battleground" . And then at some point you're going "be the monster and eat the broccoli tree, eat the tree! EAT THE TREE!!" before retiring a broken man and doing more fish fingers.
(We've always had a pretty good diet, tea involving a lot of chopping veg which I've always found time consuming but that pre-chopped stuff is just immoral. And then a bad diet also on top of that. Toblerones.)
Just read
Now we have to either have a fight every single **** night to get the kids to take a few mouthfuls of our food or we can just make something (highly processed) that they will eat without a fight
Which also rings a bell. All I can say is it didn't stay that way that long with ours. Just seemed it at the time. That said, don't look in teenagers' waste bins. For many reasons, empty family packs of donuts being the least of them.
You choose not to, for your own reasons, and then tell me I’m wrong when I say it’s not difficult.
What are you on about?
Yes, making one meal from scratch is fairly simple. Making two completely separate meals with no overlap is hard. So hard, in fact, it's a waste of time, energy, and probably food.
So yes, it's easy and simple for you. However, your experiences can't simply be extrapolated to the rest of the population.
Which was my point.
I quite like a lot of the approaches in French kids don’t throw food, lots of questionable generalisations but some good ideas.
I do wonder if it was just me bringing our daughter up whether she would eat like she does and on reflection I don’t think she would. I’m thankful my wife is a proper, passionate foodie and Amber has been brought up to explore food in all its guises. I don’t think there is anything our daughter (10) wouldn’t try and very little she doesn’t like. It does take time and I doubt it’s easy for people who don’t love the chemistry of cooking.
Lots of Ambers friends are definitely not of the eat everything persuasion and Carol tried to encourage them otherwise, with varying degrees of success. Definitely some wins with presenting foods in different ways (see the book above) but also lots of failures, so not easy if slightly late to the game (or early?!?) even if you are a good chef / cook. 🙂 Amber always has eaten what we / other adults eat, she’s never had “kids” meals. We have friends who never fed their kids the food they eat, rather gave them crap from their early years, not unsurprisingly, those children won’t go near real food now.
Which was my point.
Yes but.
People aren't doing that, you are. Folks are just sharing their experiences, you're the one comparing yourself to them, not the other way around.
We asked the doctor if it was OK. He said so long as the kids were eating something they would be fine.
Yes I was told by my Mum she took me to the doctor and said "he will only eat syrup sandwiches" - that's Lyle's Golden Syrup. Doctor said "fine let him eat those then". I must have been pretty young as I don't recall that, just eating proper food all my life. Mind you I still like a big dollop of Golden Syrup on my porridge.
So yes, it’s easy and simple for you. However, your experiences can’t simply be extrapolated to the rest of the population. Which was my point.
I read it more like -
me : cooking is easy!
you : stop attacking my parenting abilities.
me : 🤔
If anyone is extrapolating, it’s you. I also know it’s utterly pointless arguing with you, so won’t engage anymore.
What kicked all this off was when someone said, 'Both parents work now so it's more difficult to cook properly' to which you said, 'That's complete and utter bollock. I cook for my entire family every night from scratch. It's easy.'
And yes, provided you have the knowledge, the space, and the planning to be able to shop for a week then yes, chopping and heating is relatively easy (although still not as easy as pre-made meals).
However, this assumes you have the knowledge on how to cook, the space to store food (or the ability to go shopping every day), and a way of transporting a weeks worth of shopping at once or the time to wander round the shops every day wondering what to cook that night.
And that's before we even get into the part where the kids might refuse to eat anything that doesn't look like a chicken McNugget.
So no, I disagree with your assertation that the idea that having both parents working means it's more difficult to cook from scratch is 'complete and utter bollocks'.
Just because it's easy and quick for you doesn't mean it's easy and quick for everyone.
I disagree with your assertation that the idea that having both parents working means it’s more difficult to cook from scratch is ‘complete and utter bollocks’.
I can back you up on this. In nearly 20 years of marriage we’ve never both had full time jobs simultaneously. Because of food and kids.
My wife is a legend at putting together fresh meals twice a day with unprocessed foods, and preparing every weekend. Friday she goes to a specific fresh fruit and veg shop to buy locally grown produce, then another place to get all the staple foods. It takes ****ing ages and a lot of research and label reading over the years. Kids have always eaten the same meals as us and have never even tried fast food.
We chose to prioritise this over material gains from earning more, though we do recognise we’re fortunate to be able to afford this.
@reeksy you are not alone!
We're talking about me going down to an 80% position (or less) just so we're better able to cope with all the various demands of raising kids (what they are eating being just one part).
But yeah, this is very much a luxury that many families don't have the option of even thinking about.
Hmmm, might have to get myself a wife. They sounds alright. Bored of cooking for myself every day.
I love cooking
reeksy - we don't have children (but have helped look after one from the age of 0-14). We too decided to have a slightly different kind of life. I went from working full time to part time. This enabled me to shop better, cook meals from scratch (which I was doing anyway as a full time worker). I had time to use independent shops and thus no food is wasted, meals are planned and budgeted for and I don't have to go into the large supermarkets to buy rubbish. I grow some fruit and veg too.
I'm not the best cook, but our meals are 'mostly' healthy and I have time to exercise (which I didn't before going part time). Many of my friends do this, where both or one of the couple is part time and has chosen a 'simpler' life. Amazingly one can save money doing this. I appreciate this kind of lifestyle is not for everyone and it would be hard if one is used to lots of luxuries and having a certain lifestyle.
Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones's having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.
Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones’s having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.
It's not always keeping up with the Jones's, rent and mortgages can be a huge outgoing even on quite modest properties these days.
Too many people trying to keep up with the Jones’s having a certain lifestyle and working all the hours, but this ends up with them having an unhealthy life.
And even more people on crappy wages where choosing to go from £20K a year down to £10K a year so they have time to go shopping and cook from scratch is not really an option is it.
And there's the crux of the issue, we're all great at making excuses. Bottom line is eating healthily takes a bit more effort and we all tend to the easier option of eating rubbish. Unless the individual wants to change they won't, there's too many easy excuses. One of the things that worked for us was the Gousto meals, probably more expensive than buying from a supermarket but it means we get 5 home cooked meals a week which are healthier and more varied than what we normally had. Cost though was offset by reduced takeaways, avoid one take away a fortnight and you've more than covered the delivery cost. Not a lot of help if you really are on the breadline but most people aren't. If you can afford takeaways and alcohol you can afford to swap to one of the meal delivery services and improve your diet.
eating healthily takes a bit more effort and we all tend to the easier option of eating rubbish. Unless the individual wants to change they won’t, there’s too many easy excuses. One of the things that worked for us was the Gousto meals,
Agree with all that bar the bit in bold. If wanting to change were enough there wouldn't be a problem. People tend to respond to their environment, which is increasingly obesogenic. Maybe they shouldn't but so what with should/shouldn't? They do.
The thing is to change the environment, as you did by putting Gousto meals into yours. No idea what they are but I assume this equates to healthy food more easily at hand? That's what's key.
(We've never really bought take-aways. Dunno why as I'm certainly lazy enough. I guess we do eat out a fair bit, relatively poshly but this still generally means lots more salt/fat/sugar than you'd have at home. It's the only time I get added salt and I find "seasoned to perfection" can just taste really salty to me. But hey, worse problems exist. )
Ah I remember the good old days when my mum and dad worked full time and mum still managed to put a meal on the table every day without the benefit of ready meals or processed foods, 'cos there were none.
Everyone had their job to do. I went up to the shops on my bike every Saturday to collect the bread, meat and greengrocery 'cos mum was up to her armpits in the weekly wash.
Ah I remember the good old days when my mum and dad worked full time and mum still managed to put a meal on the table every day without the benefit of ready meals or processed foods, ‘cos there were none.
The "cos there were none" being the key part. If they had a choice of crap meals for same cost but way less time buying and cooking them they probably would have chosen them. Just as they probably bought a washing machine as soon as they could rather than use the mangle or going down to the river and just as they probably got a car rather than bus/walk/cycle everywhere.
People take ease and convenience over most other things in their life and food manufacturers are offering it to them - whether healthy or not.
I am really not sure cooking from scratch takes any longer or is more expensive. Certainly the second point is true. I work full time and do the food shopping and almost all the cooking in our house and still seem to be able to ride my bike and do other stuff.
If they had a choice of crap meals for same cost but way less time buying
How does it take longer buying some meat and veg than a ready meal. I shop at Aldi, chuck stuff in trolley, it's not hard. Admittedly aldinis a cost saving on Tesco but I do have to visit Tesco every few weeks for the odd this and that Aldi don't have....but still it's hardly difficult.
Edited to add it's Lidl not Aldi.
How does it take longer buying some meat and veg than a ready meal
Did you leave off the "and cooking them" accidentally or deliberately?
Every part of it takes longer. Coming up with recipes, choosing all the components for the many recipes that week, preparing all the raw foods, cooking all the foods etc,. Much more time that picking up some ready meals off the self and then just putting in microwave or oven. And when you can buy a lasagne for £1 it will also be hard to make one yourself for the same cost. Yes yours would be better tasting, better ingredients but would cost more and take much longer to make.
Thats another good point, Aldi has also been a bit of a game changer for us, in and out in less than 30 minutes with a trolley. Food quality in there has surprised me.
As I said above in the current climate thknga will only change if the indivodual wants to change and even then it incredibly difficult, I know, thats me. We might eat more healthily now but I stil need to eat less and move more.
Edit but most arent buying £1 lasagnes in Iceland tnough are they, they spend considerably more on thier crap food. Most of our meals take less than 30 mins start to finish, less if we get the kids to help. If ease is yoir priority go for it, dont complain of being too fat or having weight related issues. The other red herring is cheap food, to be as fat as many people are thats not just eating cheaper over procesed food, thats eating huge quantities of cheap over processed food with a large amount of snacks and alcohol (costly and not necessary). I look at the imcreasing number of people in their 20s that make me look slim, to be that fat that young takes some dedicated face stuffing.
What stuck with me, ages back, was listening to a podcast where they put forward the idea that physiologically we're still hardwired as hunter gatherers. Gorging on high sugar foods in the natural world - say you find a bees's nest - makes perfect sense because it's a load of energy that you convert into fat and, most importantly, it's only going to happen occasionally.
What we've done is make all that sugary stuff available instantly on demand, but we still have the basic drive to consume sugar in bulk. And that, of course, is what 'big food' exploits to sell as much stuff as possible and maximise profits.
It's not just 'junk food', witness the comedy reverence for cake and biscuits on this very forum, it's an unfortunate synergy of basic biological drives, cultural norms and the way our economy works. I pretty much gave up sugary foods - cake, biscuits, ice cream, processed breakfast cereal etc - when I had long covid because they had such a dire impact on my well being and I honestly don't miss them. On the odd occasion where I've had, say, a processed dessert since, I've found it almost unbearably sweet and sickly, Greek yoghurt and fruit is enough these days.
I doubt there's a simple solution, unless it's some sort of huge eco-social collapse that decimates the fast / convenience / processed food industry or some sort of pharmaceutical mass intervention that turns off the desire for sugary, salty, fatty foods, but as with wars and aggression, we do, as individuals, have the capacity to make considered choices for ourselves.
Did you leave off the “and cooking them” accidentally or deliberately?
Deliberately, you came up with a list of things that take longer, one of them is complete horseshit to be frank so I mentioned that.
And when you can buy a lasagne for £1 it will also be hard to make one yourself for the same cost. Yes yours would be better tasting, better ingredients but would cost more and take much longer to make.
Can you buy a lasgne for a £1?
Tesco one is £3.25
Certainly not one that would fill me up. Anyway it's a shit example as no one who is time limited mid week would make lasagne, far too much phaff. I can knock up a 50% meat 50% veg spag bol in 15 mins then leave it to simmer gently for half an hour. No probs. Cheaper than 3 of those Tesco ones for a family of 3. I usually have enough for next days lunch too.
I knocked up today's risotto in the time it took to play through "Welcome to the Pleasuredome".
Deliberately, you came up with a list of things that take longer, one of them is complete horseshit to be frank so I mentioned that.
So planning the weekly recipes and then getting all the required ingredients takes no longer than just picking up 7 ready meals, right.
Can you buy a lasgne for a £1?
Yes you can - try googling £1 lasagne, if you have time.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think people should be obese but I do think modern life and convenience leads them to it as an easy option. You don't and that is fine for you, I don't either and am 178cm and 67KG at 55 and am prepared to put whatever effort in it takes as it is important to me (even avoiding all UPF ingredients) but it is clearly less important/lower priority to a lot of people.
This is sad to read. Probably related in some part to the topic under discussion.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-67443189.amp
More illness among young affecting work ability.
"Working young people have experienced a particularly sharp rise - and are now as likely to report ill-health affecting their work as a middle-aged person a decade ago."
So planning the weekly recipes and then getting all the required ingredients takes no longer than just picking up 7 ready meals, right.
Pretty much, I just walk round Lidl and buy the same stuff I need each week. I can do this very easily as I have been living life as a fully functioning adult for quite some time. It takes no planning or forethought.
I am not sure 7 ready meals would feedthe family for a week
To be fair, it takes no planning or forethought because you have been doing it week in week out for your adult life.
That said I essentially do the same, or my wife will, as we both value avoiding processed low quality food.
As some have noted with practice the actual cooking bit doesn't take that much effort either.
To be fair, it takes no planning or forethought because you have been doing it week in week out for your adult life.
Exactly, it is easy for some of us and we have done it for ages. We are not talking about us though are we.
For someone to start planning their meals a week ahead, writing down all the ingredients, buying all the ingredients, preparing and cooking all the ingredients into meals is so clearly going to take more time and effort than buying ready meals that I really don't know why I am even wasting time writing this but then it is STW...
Exactly, it is easy for some of us and we have done it for ages. We are not talking about us though are we.
True, but when you keep saying it's quicker and cheaper to buy shit food you only make matters worse. It's not cheaper, it does take a little more time to cook and it doesn't take any longer to buy.
The impression given by all these cooking programmes is bollocks. Just try posting in here that you don't need to stand next to a risotto stirring and adding small amounts of stock all the time and you will get howls of derision, meanwhile I canleavea risotto on low for 20mins and it makes a perfectly acceptable family meal. This shit doesn't need over complicating.
More illness among young affecting work ability.
“Working young people have experienced a particularly sharp rise
Although obviously some proportion of this will be obesity related, as someone who has struggled with long COVID for nearly 4 years (and knowing others who have) I think there's another clear reason for the recent increase there
Added up the calories from my weekend beer drinking 1950! Yikes no wonder I can't out train that.
More illness among young affecting work ability.
“Working young people have experienced a particularly sharp rise<br />Although obviously some proportion of this will be obesity related, as someone who has struggled with long COVID for nearly 4 years (and knowing others who have) I think there’s another clear reason for the recent increase there
Judging by where I work, and completely anecdotally, illness among the 20-somethings here tends to be more anxiety related, not so much physical illness.
To be fair, it takes no planning or forethought because you have been doing it week in week out for your adult life.
That said I essentially do the same, or my wife will, as we both value avoiding processed low quality food.
As some have noted with practice the actual cooking bit doesn’t take that much effort either.
My oldest daughter is just learning this, having recently moved into a shared house. We keep having boring conversations about where to shop, and what to buy, and how much toilet paper costs! She is surprised by how few of her housemates can cook, but tbf, even when I was a student 30 years ago, few to none of us could cook. We just learned as went along. I don't think any of us who can now cook think that we popped out of the womb with that skill. 😀
True, but when you keep saying it’s quicker and cheaper to buy shit food you only make matters worse.
How can what I am posting on an MTB forum make matters worse, get some perspective.
It’s not cheaper, it does take a little more time to cook and it doesn’t take any longer to buy.
It may or may not be cheaper (depends what you buy) but it will take longer to cook and it will take longer to think about and buy - That time is well worth it for me, for others it doesn't appear to be.
More illness among young affecting work ability.
“Working young people have experienced a particularly sharp rise
Covid hopefully taught people that going into work when you are ill doesn't make you a hero, it makes you a "disease spreader" and an arsehole. It also taught most people that companies don't give a shit about them so why suffer when someone else takes most of the benefit of your suffering.
Young people have been disproportionately ****ed over by the financial crash and 15 years of austerity, high asset inflation and low wage inflation means they have really poor prospects for buying homes or into pensions, many had there educations badly affected by covid, they will bear the brunt of the climate crisis etc. etc.
Frankly I am surprised they don't reject the world we have created with far more vigour, probably because we have squeezed hope out of them as well.
How can what I am posting on an MTB forum make matters worse, get some perspective.
By people reading it and then repeating it. You are after all very keen to have me believe what you post is true