[Closed] Nutter attempted break in through my front door.

That's Austerity for you, cut the Police to the bone and then wonder why they drop so many cases.....

Unless it's life threatening I'd not expect to get any urgent response from the Police now; they're stretched too thin.

Poor response from the police indeed, fair from the ambulance service though. Why should they race to the aid of a nutter/criminal when they're that busy with corona patients.

I'd be persistent with the police though, have you got anything on camera?

Why should they race to the aid of a nutter/criminal when they’re that busy with corona patients.

The case will have been triaged appropriatey based on the symptoms as described. As a non life endangering case, he'll have the standard wait.

Not nice, but

he could have been dead so I didnt go near him, I updated the police and an ambulance rolls up over an hour later, he hadn’t moved in all that time even when it started raining

That’s pretty poor, he could’ve been dying and you could’ve done some basic first aid/basic checks to pass on to ambo to save him

You should have told the police there was already 6 people in the house, they'd have been round in minutes

Maybe he wasn't trying to break in. Maybe he was feeling ill and was coming to your door to ask for help and collapsed against the door before he reached it?

That's what his lawyer would call "reasonable doubt"

That’s pretty poor, he could’ve been dying and you could’ve done some basic first aid/basic checks to pass on to ambo to save him

I wouldn't if they'd just tried to burgle me - they could have been armed and crazy or anything, nice idea in theory but in reality I think it's fair to leave them to it in that situation and call the services for help.

That’s pretty poor, he could’ve been dying and you could’ve done some basic first aid/basic checks to pass on to ambo to save him

You have a different attitude towards people who have tried to rob you than I would have.

Although as Perchy points out, he may have been in need of medical assistance, rather than attempting burglary. Unfortunately the only witness was the other side of a solid object and had just been rudely aroused at 3.45am.

It's as if 2021 has kicked off early.

you could’ve done some basic first aid/basic checks to pass on to ambo to save him

As above - I wouldn't be going near someone that had just tried to barge my door down either! However I would have done more than the OP suggests they did (ie, go back out to check from a distance, recall the police and ambulance service to explain that the person hadn't moved and that I was concerned for their welfare).

rudely aroused

That's a whole different ballgame legally.

Unless you mean 'rudely roused'.

😁

If he wasn’t moving then unlikely to pose a threat to you, at least get them in recovery position

If he wasn’t moving then unlikely to pose a threat to you, at least get them in recovery position

Pretty sure I wouldn't take the chance on someone who had just been attacking my front door - who knows they could be carrying a knife and your good Samaritan action could cost you your life.....

If he wasn’t moving then unlikely to pose a threat to you, at least get them in recovery position

But then the person regains consciousness by being moved, is startled, is disorientated, panics and reacts violently...

I wouldn't take the risk.

Really houns and perchy, then Why did he scarper when the light came on.
The time and the look of him screamed total scumbag, so I couldn't care less if he dies, total oxygen thief
Nothing on tape unfortunately.
Also being a saint could have got me stabbed or accused of murder if he was brown bread.

fair from the ambulance service though. Why should they race to the aid of a nutter/criminal when they’re that busy with corona patients.

Because it's the job of the healthcare service to look after people and not pass judgment on what they have done. Simple.

You have a different attitude towards people who have tried to rob you than I would have.

Perhaps but with the benefit of hindsight I'd probably feel bad if it turned out it was someone in real need of medical attention and that was the cause of the rude (a)rousal

Why did he scarper when the light came on.

"Well yer'onner, my client was disorientated due to his medical condition and was stumbling blindly from place to place in a desperate but futile plea for assistance.
Mere seconds later he was rendered unconscious for over an hour. Clearly he was unfit for the act of burglary.

I call for the case against my client to be dismissed."

Tricksy one, but I'm with johndoh. Especially with family in the house. Location counts too, if you're somewhere (i.e. not town centre around the corner from the late bar) that 3am sloshed callers are "a bit rare" then you might be being doubly careful.

Having been on the receiving end of a (thankfully no violence toward inhabitants) more successful break in many moons ago in studenty days may influence that perspective.

Genuinely surprised by some of the responses. If I saw someone not moving in the street outside my house of course I would go and check on them. Not saying I wouldn't take my big D cell torch with me to check on them but I would go out.

I wouldn't have been going near him either. Last thing I'd be wanting is a used needle jabbed in my hand when I disturb him..

That said, not entirely sure of this bit..!!

The time and the look of him screamed total scumbag, so I couldn’t care less if he dies, total oxygen thief

also being a saint could have got me stabbed or accused of murder

I heard a rumour there's a dodgy virus going round that you can catch off people too.
Probably just scaremongering eh.

The time and the look of him screamed total scumbag, so I couldn’t care less if he dies, total oxygen thief

If I was having a heart attack and trying to alert a neighbour for help, I probably wouldn't be dressed in my dinner attire.

Scruffy people deserve to die.

I probably wouldn’t be dressed in my dinner attire.

Exactly! Id get changed into scruffy clothes as soon as a heart attack kicks off.

Unless it’s life threatening I’d not expect to get any urgent response from the Police now; they’re stretched too thin.

But not too thin to waste time checking the colour of someones car...

#blackroofsmatter

I think in the circumstances I would have done much the same as the op.

I am a little surprised that the ambulance staff attended and assisted him without the police being present.

I am a little surprised that the ambulance staff attended and assisted him without the police being present.

Don't be, ambulance crews suffer this situation all time time, often ending up injured or assaulted themselves. It's more frequent than you want to think but it's their job and they put up with it (for better or worse).

I come along to make a comment.

Read this;

Scruffy people deserve to die.

Then mooch away. Head bowed with a petted lip.

Unless it’s relatively trivial offence they can squeeze a few quid out of you if your a hard working conciencious member of society with no criminal record . I’d not expect to get any urgent response

FTFY

Another way of looking at it maybe he tried it again a bit further down the road and someone put him on his back and simply went back to bed.

#blackroofsmatter

Well, I enjoyed it 👍

BLM
me too. Well done that man

No bombers, no shoe wee’ing and no frozen sausages - this thread really is pretty subpar

Also being a saint could have got me stabbed or accused of murder if he was brown bread.

Eh?

Edit: Oooh that means dead in mockney apparently.

There are actually people so posh on here they don't understand cockney rhyming slang?

There's no cockneys left, they're all mockneys now and I try to avoid them at all cost.

The time and the look of him screamed total scumbag, so I couldn’t care less if he dies, total oxygen thief

I'm calling Gammon.

Perhaps his total lack of movement was due to him bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

There are actually people so posh on here they don’t understand cockney rhyming slang?

I laughed.

Really houns and perchy, then Why did he scarper when the light came on.

Of course you were calm and polite as you turned the light on? You did nothing that would cause them to run away? And you had such a good view of them (in the dark) it was definitely the same guy not someone who was attacked by the burglar as he fled the scene? Whilst I'm not naive enough to think the PP's defence is most likely explanation you also have to ask what sort of burglar pursues their trade by making a very loud noise - and for this reason you'll often find the "mistaken address when I was drunk" defence used, and possible a breach of the peace type charge instead being accepted by the crown.

The time and the look of him screamed total scumbag, so I couldn’t care less if he dies, total oxygen thief

There are many reasons why someone can appear to look like a "smackhead" or a "scumbag" not all of them their fault - or even drugs related. I'm not saying I'd have been too keen to approach someone who moments before I believed was trying to break into my house - but then I probably wouldn't have gone hunting for them either.

The oxygen thief scum are those who prey on the most vulnerable in society to get them addicted to drugs - whilst living a life of luxury themselves, but they are usually smarter dressed and not lying "dying" on the street so are easy to ignore.

Nothing on tape unfortunately.
Also being a saint could have got me stabbed or accused of murder if he was brown bread.

If he had tripped and banged his head, I'm not sure the fact you never went near him would necessarily help you avoid some squeaky bum moments answering questions about why someone you chased in now lying dead with with a head injury. A better defence to murder would likely be - "if my client intended to kill, why was he immediately giving first aid to try and save his life".

What makes you think he was trying to break in?.
Wasted and trying the wrong door ? wouldn't be the first time I've heard that happening.

As for the rest, you assumed he was a criminal so left him to die. What if he wasn't a criminal ?

A basic check on him would have sufficed.

Hang on, OP.

You were big and brave enough to go out on your own at night looking for him (and therefore, presumably, a confrontation) but not brave enough to give first aid/assistance to someone you said yourself might be dying?

Big guy.

Oh, tricky one.

My natural instinct would be to check he was ok and if nothing else put him in the recovery position. If I came upon someone sparked out that's what I'd do for sure.

But.....junkies can act like the living dead. My sister managed to pick up a junkie stalker in the 90s. Ex boyfriend who was a wrongun right from when she was going out with him then went postal afterwards. Got 6 months for harassing her and my parents then later on stabbed a policeman, served more time and finally ended up found dead with a needle in his arm in a squat. I was at my parents house when he decided to pay one of his visits. We had a 'chat' after which he had a lay down for a bit then a few minutes later sprung back to life like a jackinthebox. Like Tyson Fury in his fight with Wilder. This was repeated a few times and it took 3 policeman to manhandle him into a van. He was a streak of piss who had 'had a lay down' multiple times yet still had more energy than a scalded cat and seemingly boundless strength. Like Medusa I think you'd have to had to cut his head off to stop him springing up again.

Never underestimate a junkie. Even a comatose one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

One of the small points supposedly separating us from animals.

Or some of us it would appear 😕

Had a proper smack head come knocking on my door a few years ago. Knew something was up as I don’t think they expected anyone to be in (no car on the drive). As I answered her first ask was if some random person was in. When that didn’t work she said she didn’t feel great and needed to sit down. In the house of course. So I offered her a seat in the garden instead. Then called an ambulance as her eyes started going a bit wild.

Anyway, ambulance turned up, she didn’t want any treatment but insisted they give her a lift home as it “was a right walk”. Needless to say the ambulance crew told her to do one. And at that point I basically had had enough and told her to get off my property. As above, must have been 7 stone wet through but I was distinctly nervous that given half a chance she’d have tried rob me at knife point.

What you need is a friendly local dealer.
I got woken at 1:00am by a knocking on the door and when I opened it a neighbouring lad who earned his money by dealing was standing there.
Me 'Er, hello?'
Him 'Alright mate, we saw your house alarm was flashing and my mate has jumped over into your back garden to catch anyone who might be robbing you'...

We've moved...

I would’ve definitely checked on him. Just a simple walk towards him whilst talking calmly, make sure he’s breathing and not injured or in distress. You know, the basic human kindness stuff.

I’m not completely nice though. If he got up and started being a **** I’d react by turning a tad mean.

In no way could he have been a diabetic at all
Despite showing all the signs of low insulin, still best leave him in the road to be run over by an Uber
There is no correct answer though, cept maybe get the army to help out the police. Lets face it they must be bored most of tge time and if a copper did roll up with 3 army personel who decidely wont put up with any nonsense more could be achieved by less people. No guns required just alot of cable ties

What makes you think he was trying to break in?.
Wasted and trying the wrong door ? wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard that happening.

As for the rest, you assumed he was a criminal so left him to die. What if he wasn’t a criminal ?

A basic check on him would have sufficed.

You sound like a stabbing victim waiting to happen to be honest.

Society it appears requires some to be demonized for their addiction.

It is interesting, nay telling to note that Alcoholism is class4ed as a disease, and has deemed treatments to help those afflicted to cope and beat their addiction.

I feel that were heroin a legal choice for relaxation for society, and alcohol illegal, then heroin addiction would be classed as a disease, and alcohol addiction not.

Society it appears requires some to be demonized for their addiction.

I think this is less about what the addiction might be and rather more about the battering on the front door at 3:45.

I'd make sure you needed an ambulance.

It is interesting, nay telling to note that Alcoholism is class4ed as a disease, and has deemed treatments to help those afflicted to cope and beat their addiction.

As do junkies. Methadone programme etc

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/drug-addiction-getting-help/

As for helping the person who was at the OPs door?

I'd have checked he was breathing and put in the recovery position if required. But then I'm probably getting on for twice the weight of an average junkie and have some experience of dealing with them.

Jesus! No wonder society is the way it is. So many people on here whining about empathy on other threads yet it appears leaving somebody in the street is totally fine because they may have been attempting a crime or high. Do some of you honestly think that you’d get stabbed? This is quite saddening to read tbh.

How much contact have you had with people who have a drug related problem?

I've had lots, and lots, and lots.

I have a great deal of sympathy for those who are in this situation and exercise it regularly, but if you bang on my door at 3:45 am you will get removed from there with significant force.

Do some of you honestly think that you’d get stabbed?

I think it's a high enough probability to not want to get too close.

You're not picking a member of society selected at random and asking 'might they be dangerous', you're picking from a sub set of society who try and break into occupied houses in the early hours of the morning in a violent manner. In the latter case I'd suggest the probability of them being potentially dangerous is significant enough to stay the f*** away from them.

NB If they makes me a bad person, pretty sure I can live with it.

Having had a couple of heroin addicts, a couple of alchololics and several very angry teenagers either attempt or threaten to stab me with various pointy things over the years I can attest that the average adult male has very little to fear from an addict, armed or otherwise.

If the OP wasn't worried about getting stabbed when he decided to go looking for his would be burglar, why would he suddenly be worried about being stabbed when he finds him unconscious on the floor?

Having had a couple of heroin addicts, a couple of alchololics and several very angry teenagers either attempt or threaten to stab me with various pointy things over the years I can attest that the average adult male has very little to fear from an addict, armed or otherwise.

So out of six stabbing attempts people have little to fear, Okaaaay.

If the OP wasn’t worried about getting stabbed when he decided to go looking for his would be burglar, why would he suddenly be worried about being stabbed when he finds him unconscious on the floor?

I agree best kick him in the skull first before you find out, personally junkies are the shite of the earth , you won’t change my mind

How much contact have you had with people who have a drug related problem?

Quite a bit over the years, including family.

I think it’s a high enough probability to not want to get too close.

Whereas I think it is minuscule and even if it wasn’t I’d still check on somebody who seemed to be in a potentially perilous situation. Out of interest what makes you think the chances would be high (pun not intended)?

Utterly shitty behaviour to leave him lying there

Just reread the thread and there is literally no evidence that he was attempting to break in or on drugs. Can’t believe some of you have the cheek to slag off the Daily Mail when you should be reading it.

@Steelbike

So tell us all of the great harm you clearly suffered at the hands of an addict. Must have been really bad to hate someone so.

Of course you know sweet fanny adams of anyone circumstances nor what has put them into that position.
Poverty - No point in boring you with this, because you cannot(clearly) have to propensity to understand.
Sexual abuse - Again, you are tainted by your own warped thinking
Bereavement - Will happen to all of us, but strange you would consider your own personal experience of it to judge others.

Steel bike More like steel heart.

WELL DONE TO THE OP, for at least checking on the guy. Unfortunately his personal circumstances are unknown to the OP at the time, and disease can ravage a body. Certainly many cancer victims towards the end share the same facial features of a long time addict, and without the I AM A HEROIN ADDICT t-shirt, how would anyone know the true circumstances.

But all your comment has shown is that you would walk past a cancer victim who has collapsed in the street.

Reply all you want, I'll not be addressing you again.

Some of the comments on here, do you people get your views from the Daily Mail?

Just the worst.

So out of six stabbing attempts people have little to fear, Okaaaay

Spent 15 years as a youth/care worker in some pretty tough areas. The odd knife event is an occupational hazard, I'm afraid. It's never particularly exciting, mostly quite sad and a bit depressing really.

I agree best kick him in the skull first before you find out,

In my experience, people that talk this way are the first ones to fill their trousers or cry when the stool hits the fan.
Also, just be mindful that you're advocating violence on a public forum...

Quite a few years ago I worked with a lad who, one lunchtime, went out and didn't return until the next morning. It turned out he was type 1 diabetic, and had a hypo turn when he was out at lunch. He was about 8 stone wet through, pale to begin with. When he became hypo he would become very confused, would foam at the mouth. He'd ended up at the train station and collapsed. It was a couple of hours before someone checked on him because people thought he was a smackhead.

He hadn't mentioned it at work because he was ashamed of his condition. We got him to tell us how to spot if he was becoming hypo. Sure enough, two days later he started losing focus. We got someone's sugary snack and got him sorted. He was in tears, apologising for causing a scene! Poor lad.

In this case, it very well be that the visitor was an addict, but to wish someone dead for bouncing off your door? That's a disproportionate response. I've not experienced anyone trying to break into my home though. I can imagine it's a pretty intense time. Still can't condone calling someone a waste of oxygen though.

my brother’s girlfriend is a cop but doesnt cover my area so I’ll ask her later today if she can find anything out. Is it me or is that a terrible response.

Whereabouts do you live? Just to put things into context if you're rural, I have transferred out of the Met to work in the counties.

On an average shift there is 8 of us to cover 250 sq miles. It's an eye opener....

But all your comment has shown is that you would walk past a cancer victim who has collapsed in the street.

Eh? What? Whatever the circumstances I'm pretty sure it was pretty clear the guy wasn't a cancer victim! They don't tend to be banging on your door at 4am after all.

I don't condon calling addicts the scum of the earth, far from it. But I don't blame the op for not being overly keen to administer hands on assistance either, based on previous experiences I've had.

Just to clarify a few things, this wasn't a please help me knock, it was straight into trying to take the door of its hinges, shake the front of the house type assault.
I didnt shout or make any noise.
Turning the light on made him go away, uttering a few swear words on his way.
I got a good look at him and gave a good description to the police.
He was lying down straight like he was trying out a bed in Bensons, really unusual, clearly not fallen or injured.
I can tell the difference between a smackhead piece of shit violent scumbag and a milkman in need of medical assistance.
People roaming around quiet cul de sacs at that time are clearly wrong uns.
I put a mask on and yes I intended to smash his face in, sorry about that.
My empathy is reserved for people worthy of it, not drug fuelled criminals.
People who break into family homes, destroy lives and are often capable of much worse so arent worth saving.

Greeny30 ignore the haters. I would have done what you did, until my wife would have stopped me and told me it's a bad idea to go out.

being a saint could have got me stabbed

and yes I intended to smash his face in, sorry about that.

So you'll risk getting stabbed if it means you get to smash someone's face in, but not to check someone's alive?

Which of those two situations do you think might draw out a violent response from someone you think might have a knife?

Also, you're worried about getting stabbed by a heroin addict, but only if he's unconscious?

Is confuse.

What a Depressing thread.

^^^ as a victim of both break-ins and having addicts being on my premises, initial reaction is to protect myself/people I live with so rushing in and reacting to what might be an immediate threat is one thing. Going back to check after the adrenaline has subsided is another matter.

Youre right fin it's a weird one, rage and adrenaline gives me a different response, yes.
Was he unconscious or playing possum, without crouching over him and leaving myself vulnerable how would I know. Plus standing over a body could look bad if someone looks out at the wrong moment.
Going from wanting to kill someone to checking they're okay just doesnt work for me, maybe I'm the psycho and he's the victim after all.
Basically I was left confused by it, so I just thought f#ck him.
It's a weird one, I'm a trained fighter so facing a guy with a possible knife in fight mode is different. I dont know, people are complicated and make no sense sometimes.

I put a mask on and yes I intended to smash his face in, sorry about that.

You have a problem. You know that right?

I'd be more concerned living next to you than an opportunist who scarpers at the first sign of life within the house.

I put a mask on and yes I intended to smash his face in, sorry about that.

This thread has taken a sinister turn. I was just about on the op's side..But that just weird..

Squirrel king sums it up well I think!

I dont know, people are complicated and make no sense sometimes.

Agreed.

To look for the positive in all of it, no-one got hurt or burgled.
I'm sure it's been pretty horrible for you and now probably isn't the time for self-reflection or arguing about it on the internet.

I'm going to bed.

Peace.

Squirrelking the mask was for covid reasons nothing sinister, wanting to hit someone who tries smashing your door down is hardly unstable, I'm one of the nicest people you could meet until you attack me or my property.
Judgemental much.
If someone keyed your car and insulted your wife would you make them a cuppa.

IMHO whether the OP went out to brain a junkie assailant, or failed to show basic compassion to someone who was poorly and collapsed, is neither here not there.

The OP notified the emergency services. The ambulance took an hour to arrive and the police didn't bother to trap at all. They clearly didn't interpret this as a life-threatening situation.