[Closed] Now then, this is a good one. Fat-ism should be a hate crime.....

Chortles at GrahamS 😀

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Oh dear, I'm "overweight". I'm reporting you lot to the pigs (the fat ones)

simonfbarnes - Member

and bam - 30 stone of lard

to be fair there needs to be bones and muscle too or they'd just be a small hill...

People at work now think I'm weird for trying to choke down my chortling...

I ****in hate the BMI chart... I'm 172cm and weigh in at 90kg, so that makes me 'obese' apparently. now I could lose a few kgs, probably around 6-7kg of lard I'd guess, but then I'd still be 'overweight' and I'd be down to almost 0% body fat! it's a stupid measure...

i have been watching this from the sidelines all day.
it is the same culprits every single day....... 🙄
the ones who are oh so politicaly correct are THE worst too 🙄

I ****in love the BMI chart... I'm 5'11" and weigh in at just under 12 stone, so that makes me bang in the middle of OK.

If you're 5'8" and weigh 14.5 stone, unless you're a body builder, the chart is probably right. Sorry.

Just to recap...

The OP linked an article that suggested that "fattism" should be treated like "racism" and also that fat people should be legally protected from being nagged by their doctors about their weight.

It seems fair to say that most of us do not agree, because we mostly believe that a significant proportion of the larger people are larger because of personal lifestyle choices. They are (mostly) chubby by choice.

(EDIT: We (generally) do not buy the "poor people are fat because they can only afford to shop at Iceland" thesis, as many of us have experience of cooking decent food on modest budgets. In any event, we do not necessarily see that a symptom of social deprivation should be elevated and given protection as a personal characteristic, rather than being mitigated. /EDIT)

In a country with quite a paternalistic approach to public health, and where much of the risk and cost of individuals' healthcare is socialised, taking lifestyle choices which (are thought to) lead to vastly increased medical risk is considered anti-social.

So, we consider fatness to be a choice, and one that we see objective reasons for wanting to reduce.

While most people are happy to accept that mocking someone for their race, sex, sexual orientation or disabilities is off-colour (largely due to the lack of choice that these attributes involve) and some of us (by no means all) are happy to take religion as being deserving of similar protection (but presumably on substantially different grounds as it is substantially choice-driven), we do not believe that fatness merits such treatment at all.

This may be over-rationalising the issue. If we're honest, many of us simply regard the larger people as being weak-willed, excuse-making and therefore contemptible, and also find them very amusing at a purely visual level (see the derek-starship purple expanse thread).

So I guess there's just a meanness in this world. But we feel we can justify it pretty well. 🙂

BD, you have just said in a very nice way what i was thinking, and was gonna post in a not so nice way...

chink, spick, ****, deigo, mong, spas, retard, queer, bummer, lesbo, tranny, fat...................non is very nice...........only one is ok to use........why??????????????????????

to avoid offence Tony I have called you "well nourished", is this acceptable ?

I have recently experienced the sleights of dullardism, and am now keen to avoid hate speech 🙁

If you're 5'8" and weigh 14.5 stone, unless you're a body builder, the chart is probably right. Sorry.

No need to be sorry... But I do disagree with the BMI chart, even at my absolute fittest (10 years ago, running triathlons etc etc) the lightest I've been was 84kg, so that still leaves me 'overweight' apparently... I do have the classic mesomorph body shape, pretty sure the BMI doesn't work for this at all...

simon, it is all acceptable to me.........but not to other people including yourself when the other words are used in posts.......

People should be aware that the BMI calculation discriminates against taller people. If you were to double the height of a person but retain the same shape/fat distribution etc, their BMI would double though they would presumably retain the same level of morbidity.

The mass/(height^2) shape factor is dimensionally flawed and should use the [b]cube[/b] of the height :o)

It is generally nasty to mock people. As for the stuff quoted in that article in the OP about the larger chaps being physically assaulted, that's not on.

The internet is odd, and most people disassociate that picture of derek-starship (or the astounding buttocks on the previous page) from an actual person that they are mocking. Civilised people wouldn't point and laugh at a stranger in person generally, but it does seem to be that these images are funny at quite a deep level to most people. That always tends to turn the discussion uncivilised, which is a pity.

But, it doesn't seem right to chuck being fat in the same bucket as being gay, being black or whatever for these purposes.

Noody wants to cure gayness or blackness, and neither gay people nor black people want to be cured. Whereas I think it's fair to say that most of the larger chaps wouldn't mind sheddding a few pounds. That is especially the case if their weight really is due to social deprivation of some sort. In that case particularly, challenging the deprivation that leads to the fatness seems the appropriate response, not accomodating the fatness.

As I say, all this within the general observation that bullying people is mean. Fair? 🙂

the ones who are oh so politically correct are THE worst too

Surely no great surprise there ?

From the article:

[i]Another campaigner... said: "I have been punched, I have had beer thrown in my face, I have had people attack me on the train. "They say 'Move out of the way fatty! Well person coming down the aisle!'" [/i]

Do you reckon the supposed attackers are all big into gay rights and positive discrimination? I'm not entirely convinced. 🙂

BigDummy
do you think the people that are morbidly obese choose to be how they are....
do you think it is a choice they have made..

It has been clearly shown that in many cases weight gain is related to stress and depression, eg

1. Stress is a major contributor for both depression and weight gain. When you have too many things to balance and your stress level rises to an unhealthy level, you go into what they call the “fight or flight” mode. When your body struggles with the fight or flight decision, it is also releasing too much cortisol in your bloodstream, which causes an increase in your appetite. So it is not uncommon for people to reach for food as a way to relieve stress when they feel anxious or overworked.

2. Another side effect of both depression and weight gain is insomnia. When you have trouble getting to sleep at night, wake up frequently, have trouble falling back to sleep and rise long before your alarm is scheduled to go off, you are not getting the sleep your body needs. To lose weight, you need to get plenty of sleep.

Read more: http://weightloss.suite101.com/article.cfm/depression_and_weight_gain#ixzz0UP18iPT5

So everyone simply saying 'get some will power fatty' is really not very accurate or helpful.

Do you reckon the supposed attackers are all big into gay rights and positive discrimination?

Certainly some of the 'attackers' [i]on here[/i] are very big on 'gay rights'.

As I understand it, ton was referring to attacks on here.

Dam I'm overweight according to that chart DezB!

Better ride more and eat less junk!

😉

Certainly some of the 'attackers' on here [b]are very big[/b] on 'gay rights'

is this heightism or fattism ?

simply saying 'get some will power fatty' is really not very accurate or helpful.

And it possibly also misses the point that people are entitled to make life style decisions without, being exposed to ridicule and insults.

Good point grumm.

"Get some sleep fatty. And cheer up." 😈

Hilarious.

@ton
I'm not a doctor, and I'm not commenting on the small number of people who have medical conditions that mean they actually cannot control their weight.

I believe it to be the case that a huge proportion of people who are over-weight do not actually suffer from any medical condition that explains their weight. Those people (basically) consume considerably more than they use.

That doesn't mean that anyone wakes up one morning and thinks "I'll get obese, that would be good", it isn't choice in that sense. But for most people, ending up severely over-weight is the product of a series of choices about their lifestyle that add up to weight gain. Taking different choices (probably quite a lot of them) would result in the weight gain not happening, and can later (for most people) result in it being reversed.

Do you dispute that?

And it possibly also misses the point that people are entitled to make life style decisions without, being exposed to ridicule and insults.

undoubtedly! So I shall expect no further discrimination against my choice to wear shorts all the time and ride on footpaths at every possible opportunity!

"Get some sleep ****. And cheer up."

actually, this would be good advice for everyone :o)

To a large extent you could say the same about a variety of mental illnesses also being about personal choice, so hopefully all the mentalists are up for riducle too 🙂

BD - would you take the piss out of a disabled person who had become paralysed due to some poor choices on their part?

What about someone who had been mountain biking (without a helmet maybe) and suffered brain damage?

Fair game for ridicule eh?

undoubtedly!

Really ? You mean that ? ............... you will never again throw ridicule and insults at overweight people SFB ?

Oh isn't it nice when patiently arguing your point brings results 8)

........... now don't forget Simon will you 😛

Hmmm. They [IanMunro's "mentalists"] certainly get some ridicule. Are people who get schizophrenia from too much skunk more ridiculous than people who get depression from being abused as children? There's definitely a serious point here, which does cut into my treatment of "choice" I agree.

to me a person who eats, drinks, takes drugs to the point that it controls their lives to the extent that it is gonna kill them needs some help.
they are suffering from a illness.

Oh my god....nothing annoys me more than all this shit about fat people and how they should just 'love their bodies as they are' (gok wan) and 'its our lack of education that we are fat' etc etc

Fat, obesity or whatever is unhealthy.....why do we promote that being fat is acceptable??!?! this will only contribue to the feeling that obesity is the norm and fine and healthy....sigh.

JUST LOOSE SOME ****ING WEIGHT

Yeah, and start smiling you ****ing depressives 🙂

Can't believe no-one's posted this.

Ian

you will never again throw ridicule and insults at overweight people SFB ?

my plan is to avoid all forms of discrimination!

Oh isn't it nice when patiently arguing your point brings results

is [b]that[/b] what you were doing ?

Fat, obesity or whatever is unhealthy.....why do we promote that being fat is acceptable?

well, it seems to turn out that mild overweight actually gives the best life expectancy - though as I've pointed out, that may no longer be a good thing

Grumm - I think we're passed arguing about whether people are "fair game for ridicule", we were discussing whether or not discrimination against fat people was/should be treated the same as racism etc.

In your examples the people end up disabled. We already (I think rightly) object to discrimination against the disabled, and that certainly catches some people who could have worn helmets at various points. It also (I believe) catches some people who are very severely obese.

Leaving aside the issue of whether people like to be laughed at (they invariably don't), I'm not sure we're any closer to an argument that obesity is morally the same as race/sexuality/disability for these purposes.

Are you trying to squeeze out of the closet Simon?
Ian

Interesting debate with some of the usual amusing banter along the way. It does seem funny that we are raising the issue of rotundness and people being mocked at a time when a far greater percentage of the population are overweight. When I was a kid the larger people were quite a rarity and were mercilessly mocked at times. Not right although sometimes amusing at the time.

I don't think any of us really would condone attacking or blatantly ridculing people who are different to us but that doesn't stop us finding some things amusing, or sad, or somehow pathetic. How many of us laugh when we see someone come flying off their bike? Natural first response seems to be a laugh, chortle or full on belly wobbler before that concern about their wellbeing kicks in. Seems to be (predominantly male) human behaviour.

Leaving that aside for the moment though a number of the issues or complains that people suffer from are largely down to their personal choices. We have developed a society where soemone else or something else is to blame. If you have panic attacks or paranoia because you ingested too many narcotics whose fault is it? And at what point do you think it is fair for the public to bail you out and support your medical care? For those who are, shall we say, on the generous side of the ideal weight line it really is down to eating more than you are burning through general living and exercise. And being overweight is not good for you health wise. This is not complex or intellectual stuff we are grappling with here. And for many people it is down to their free choice. Nobody is making them eat all those pies and chips. Take some personal responsibility and stop looking for excuses or people to blame! And for the record, yes, I am slightly stout so I am not being an indignant stick insect. I know that I each a bit too much, and sometimes the wrong foods, but I know who puts it in my mouth and there is no one else to blame but me. 🙂

whether people like to be laughed at

on the contrary I very much enjoy being laughed at for the wrong reasons :o)

Are you trying to squeeze out of the closet Simon?

which closet ?

Chuckling at [i]indignant stick insect[/i]. 🙂

I think you are secretly fat,but denying it to yourself.
Ian

I think you are secretly fat,but denying it to yourself.

that's none of your business!

If you mean Simon, his fatness is such a secret that it doesn't show up in photographs. 🙂

Ah the magic airbrush,why do you think he is such an expert photographer?
Ian

Surely the easiest answer to all of this is for food prices to rise.
Especially the crap that you do see the average chubber in tesco's or iceland eating, Make that stuff expensive and the good food cheaper and they will soon lose weight.
But then who knows, you would soon end up with a version of return of the living dead with armies of fat knackers chasing the innocent once they leave the sanctuary of tescos.
Hmm someone get me that sniper rifle 😀

It wouldn't be much of a chase LOL
Ian

FWIW I don't think 'fatism' should be a hate crime, but then I'm not sure about the concept in the first place.

his fatness is such a secret that it doesn't show up in photographs

I could be fat on the [b]inside[/b]...

Surely the easiest answer to all of this is for food prices to rise.

this disadvantages poor people. How about making food free as then people wouldn't need to store an emergency backup on their bodies ?

this disadvantages poor people. How about making food free as then people wouldn't need to store an emergency backup on their bodies ?

Because if we did that then a fair number of them would rapidly reach critical mass and collapse into a human black hole.

Seriously some people (and I do mean some - not including those who do have medical (mental or otherwise) issues) are quite simply gluttons.
And anyway can you seriously say that if you are at an all you can eat buffet you will not try to stuff yourself stupid?

One in particular who is a team leader at work. Intelligent got lots of money but is a fat bastard simply because he is too idle to eat good food. He eats takeaways all the time. And lets be fair judging by the noise he makes when he breathes will expire soon too.

an old friend i played rugby with married a girl when they were both 21.
he was our captain, he also captained the yorkshire squad...
they had three kids, all lovely girls.
his wife started having a affair when the oldest was 13, his wife left him when she was 14, leaving him with the 3 girls..
so in my eyes he had everything to live for, 3 young girls to look after and a nice house cos the wife let him have it all.
but what he wanted was his wife, he became seriously depressed, he stopped working, and he stopped looking after himself and the girls.
now i did not see him for about 4 years and when i did it nearly bought me to tears, i was totaly shocked.
the bloke must have balloned to 30 stone.
i took him for a coffee and we sat and talked for a bit.
the kids were took off him and went with their mum, he lost the house and had been in and out of hospital with serious heart and blood pressure issues.
i went on a rugby reunion last year and he was there and was still in the top 20 stone region. i talked to a lad who lives near him and said he balloons up to 35 stone, then loses it....not a nice way to live your life...

wonder if he decided to get in such a state.....

And anyway can you seriously say that if you are at an all you can eat buffet you will not try to stuff yourself stupid?

in order to stay the size I want to be I have to put up with being hungry most of the time 🙁 So the answer is no, I wouldn't pig out.