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And say what?
Chewkw's dwelling is so energy inefficient that the heat pump that is installed can't keep up with demand.
Asking for some insulation improvements would probably be a start.
Chewkw’s dwelling is so energy inefficient that the heat pump that is installed can’t keep up with demand.
Asking for some insulation improvements would probably be a start.
Not sure how they can insulate the flat to be honest because there is no gap between the inner and outer wall like where you can pump the form in or add insulation fibre in. It is just a brick wall.
I think in my bedroom the cold air enter from the ventilation vent which I just closed and only leaving a tiny gap for air circulation. Although the heating radiators are working they are not hot as in burning hot hot. I set the temp of the boiler to 80c max. This is a BAXI heating unit but it does not have the big boiler tank unlike many. Apparently the heat is instant ... hmmm ...
Anyway, I have just switched off the central heating now as it has reached 17c. I can feel my feet and hands now.
Might take a long time to pay back the cost of the new rads tho
Quoted £200 by the plumber to install a column radiator in the kitchen as the current one is old and under-sized, this doesn't include the rad but all pipework changes. I'm in the East.
I have succumbed.... not that it wasn't on but because we are out at work and college for 3 days a week (wfh for 2) I was running heating mornings and evenings and in the day and night it was going off and we were coping. In the last really cold spell that might mean manually boosting from time to time on the days I wfh, but wasn't unknown for house to drop to about 13C overnight and then the boiler having to work hard in the mornings to get to a target of 19 (or fail and then go off again after we'd all left)
December bill when it came wasn't too bad - Nov was about £100 each for G&E, Dec was £120 + £150 - E increase no doubt due to student home from Uni and additional lighting and computer and TV.....
So when it got cold again, on the sort of recommendation of people on here instead of off during the night I've now set to a cooler but still tolerable 16.5C. And checking my app it looks like for example I had three burns last night each of about 20 mins duration (app is basic one so doesn't give a lot of detail, just a bar chart) but getting up for a wee in the night, and for the dog at 0630 was so much nicer. And the morning burn to get to 19 takes quite a bit less time so i can't actually see if it's really taking much more energy.
I don't have a smart gas meter and haven't taken daily or weekly readings, and I don't have a long cold spell to experiment in but suspect this is about the right balance of slightly extra cost (maybe) vs comfortable living.
When I let my house cool down in cold weather it takes much longer to get it warm, because everything in it is also cold - floors, furniture, chairs etc. The suggestion seems to be that if your house is well insulated it's better to just let it cool a bit overnight rather than go off completely.
I was up last night at midnight when the heating came on (set-back temp of 16C) so I started experimenting again, this time with higher flow temps. One problem I have is that the boiler produces more heat at its minimum modulation than the radiators can emit, so it ends up in a cycling condition. But then I realised (of course) that the hotter the flow, the more heat is emitted by the radiators. So by setting a higher flow temp it might avoid the cycling. Cycling reduces efficiency, but so does higher return (and hence flow) temps. So it's a trade-off.
There's another factor, in that if I set the flow temp to say 70C, it takes a while to get there. So whilst at the end of the burn the return temp might be 55C, for most of the time it isn't anywhere near that high so will be condensing well anyway. Argh!
This is why I don't think a smart setup is going to be worth it for me, because there are too many things in my house it can't control. I think you'd need the most modern boiler and pump to take advantage of it. Are there any smart systems that know what your boiler flow/return temps are?
I have the heating on but go round turning the taps on and off to avoid heating rooms not being used.
I held out until sometime in November but before that I found:
Difficult to get out of bed in the morning in a cold room.
Unproductive while working from home.
Excessive snacking.
For a comparison between not putting the heating on and putting the heating on - I.e cooling and warming the house. Ours runs 24/7, set at 19/20° in a 20yr old 3 bed semi
Current gas bill is £199/month, but not sure if that's currently based on actual usage
Just done the maths.... It cost me on average 3.25€/day in fuel over the last seven days. That includes heating and cooking.
Admittedly I live in a van and everything runs on diesel and 12v solar.
Chew has a Baxi and ashp? Thats strange, unless the ashp is running UFH. The combi is then a top up. Makes billing easier, everyone pays for ufh, then if you want 22c your paying extra.
But i bet the ashp isnt set up correctly. They need to be on 24/7 as the temperature differential is low and they tend to heat up slower. Efficient once warm but has to run continuously.
Dreading this month's bill after the cold spell this week. Heating was on for 9 hours one day and the living room still didn't get above 16c.
Sooner we can get the shitty old boiler out and radiators sorted the better but can't help but feel that I really want to say to hell with my principled decision to ditch the idea of a wood burner, so we can get the living room going like a furnace next winter.
Just had a look at the Smart meter, £421 for the month so far. Windy and cold west of Scotland, modernish 3 storey, 4 bed detached, brand new windows and doors in October. House sits at around 22 most of the time, I work from home mostly. Teenagers in and out and lots of tech on 24/7.
Wonder what it’ll be when the EV arrives in summer .. 🙄
£421 for the month so far
House sits at around 22 most of the time,
I think is your problem. 19 in ours, it's not t-shirt warm, I'm in shorts and a t-shirt but a fleece up top, and it's perfectly bearable. We used to have it at 21, but that was when energy was 1/3 the price, you soon adapt to it. Fighting to keep those extra 3 degrees is harder than the 16-19 difference, as the rate of loss to the outside is proportional to the difference between inside and outside.
Which means I don't need all the benefit of the rebate which should have gone to those that need it, so instead I'm using it to top up the food bank cages at the supermarket. Virtue duly signalled; and Greta likes me more than you too 😉
^^^ 😁😁
22 is way warm. My hallway's at 17 and my living spaces at 20, that feels just right.
How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?
We have a 19th century solid stone wall top floor Edinburgh tenement flat and run the heating at 16c. By the windows it's about 14c.
Our bedroom has mould on the inside of the stone wall this year. Previously we've run the heating at 18-19 with no problem. The window in that room is double glazed but the seal failed before we moved in four years ago. The window is wet in the morning, along with all the woodwork around it. The curtains have gone mouldy and we've mould on the skirting boards.
Is there an alternative other than buying a dehumidifier or putting the heating up?
Reduce the humidity or raise the dew point.
I feel very extravagant having heating on for a full 1h30 from 0600 and again from 1800 in this cold snap....Normally use it 1h twice a day.
In this cold snap, we've been using the woodburner a fair bit, too.
House isn't particularly well insulated; I need new windows throughout. Wearing a fleece and hat helps loads, though.
I feel for those who are struggling atm.
How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?
Fine here, Edinburgh victorian terrace, probably same stone walls as you and running at very similar temperature.
Between dehumidifiers and a bit of German style Stoßlüften every day I'm not really noticing issues. We do have 2x dehumidifiers on the go, one which goes on when washing is drying and another in the stairwell to kick in when humidity goes up too much. I don't know what would be "normal" for the house as we only moved in September, there's a bit of evidence of historical issues but nothing major. Humidity has been as low as 35% during the recent cold snap and as high as 60% during the late summer/early autumn so generally don't think the house is a particularly damp one despite kitchen and basement being below street level.
We've had someone in the house every day for the last 6 weeks, so heating has been on 14 hours a day. Currently using about 60 KWh of gas a day during the cold snap. This will drop by half once it warms up, then next to nothing come April. Electricity is still around 20Kwh a day - although does drop to 12Kwh - heating the conservatory where I WFH two days a week and two gaming PC's use the juice). 6-10 KWh for the conservatory heating during the day, and we've worked out the gaming PC's are using 4Kwh in the evenings (between them)
I'm a little confused by the humidity numbers people are quoting. My humidity figures are so much higher I thought my meter might be wrong but then I checked the climate data and in the months the house is mostly open it records the same as the local weather station. The average relative humidty in Pau is 80% and it drops below 60% only about 20 days in the year. it's currently about 95% outside and 65% inside which is what you'd expect given the temperature difference (dehumidifier not needed when the wood burner is on which it is because it's snowing out.
So yes low in the cold snap inside - 65%, and high late Summer 75-95% (windows open). Even if I ran the dehumidifier non stop it woudln't go down below 50% inside
22? Do you spend your day in your pants?
Mines at 17.5 and I've not felt cold except my feet when sat at my desk, but decent slippers (big boot shaped ones with thick memory foam soles) have solved that. It gets slightly chilly if am sat down to watch a film, but that's solved by having a cup of tea to take the edge off.
How are those holding out on their heating or running it cooler than usual coping with mould?
Not had any other than a dirty wipe off the bottom seal of the windows. It's a large-ish under occupied house though so I suspect it's not getting overloaded by cooking/laundry.
I do make an effort to open doors/windows once a day (usually just when I'm in and out getting ready for work, faffing with bikes) just before the heating comes on to let the humid air out so the heating is working on dryer air.
I’m a little confused by the humidity numbers people are quoting.
it’s all relative… 😉
Interesting discussion on WatO on R4 at lunchtime (obviously, that's when one o'clock is)
Martin Lewis and boss of UK energywatch or whoever they are about likely impacts of the end of the price guarantee vs a general decline in the wholesale price.
The energy price numbers have continued to increase but we haven't seen because the Gov is paying whatever the cost is over the £2500 for the mythical typical house. That level goes up to £3000 in April (plus we lose the £400 rebate) and we'll all be paying more for the energy*. But if wholesale is coming down, then the amount the Gov is subsidising by will reduce and they should have more in the coffers than envisaged - which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.
Later on this year, the wholesale price is predicted to go below the level we're capped at at which point hopefully market dynamics means we pay a going rate, which will be below the actual cap, Gov doesn't need to subsidise at all, and homes can also be helped through next winter. Predictions are for the average house to be £2200-ish.
* except will we? Because while we go through this hump of higher cap / before the market rate comes down - it'll be summer. So we'll have the higher rates on a per kWh which of course hurts, but our usage should be lower because we won't need anywhere as much heating (hoping we don't have -4C temperatures in May-Sept!!!) And by the time we get to needing heating back on we'll be on market rates which while they'll be double the pre-crisis numbers, are far more affordable for many and Gov can focus help where it's really needed.
It sounded promising to me, at least.
which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.
you've not been paying attention for the last few years have you...
Is there an alternative other than buying a dehumidifier or putting the heating up?
Ventilation.
you’ve not been paying attention for the last few years have you…
Yeh, I know. How naive am I!
which hopefully means that those most in need can get help with their bills.
When has a Tory Government ever been interested in helping those most in need?
They are currently focused on destroying the NHS to ensure those most in need can't get any medical treatment....
If anyone is interested, me and madame have spent the tail end of last year and start of this one systematically going round our house (2 bed mid 80's bungalow semi) and improving insulation/draft proofing and making small incremental gain improvement where we can. I think in total we have spent about £1100 on insulation (celotex and recycled plastic), plasterboard, paint and various sundry items. So far we have done the following -
Upgraded all the loft area to minimum 300 using loftlegs in the storage areas
All hatch areas are now 200mm thick celotex and rubber draft strips around the openings
We had a 'cold' spare room on the north corner of the house - we opened up the internal walls, removed the piecemeal glassfibre insulation and re insulated with 200mm celotex and re plasterboarded
Insulated under the floor throughout with 200mm recycled plastic wool (we have a 500mm crawlspace so did not need to lift floors)
Madame made new lined curtains for the lounge and bedroom
Added secondary glazing to the front door window and triple glazed the previous owners cat flat using some polycarbonate sheet I had in the loft
The result has been a minimum 2 degree rise in temperature. All the big improvements were instantly noticed. Even the small improvements such as the cat flat made noticeable difference so were worthwhile.
An eye opener was how bad the 80s insulation was - not just the fact that it was too little but also how badly done it was. Gaps everywhere and frankly bodged together.
All in all we are really pleased, it was an effort to do and a thousand pounds is a decent chunk of cash but I feel it was worth it and satisfying to know we've stopped the heat getting out as much as we realistically can
Excellent, kormoran.
what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?
I'll turn mine off when I can get away with it but during this recent cold spell, we've had a few nights I've turned it down to about 15c - We've had a few nights at around -6/7 and it's still been around -4 at 9am.
Ours is set to 14 minimum. Boosted to 17 in the morning for an HR or so. Wood burner in the evening. Doesn't often come on at that temp but has a couple of times recently. I'd love to insulate our flimsy upstairs bedroom walls like Koroman has as it gets cold up there but can't face the disruption or cost at at the moment.
When has a Tory Government ever been interested in helping those most in need?
They are currently focused on destroying the NHS to ensure those most in need can’t get any medical treatment….
Please, not another politics thread, this has been useful for understanding how to optimise heating systems and operations, let's not disappear it under another deluge of the same ten.
@keva - I posted a couple of days ago on this, it's up near the top of the page but after another couple of days operating like this (lower temperature but still 'on' in the night) I'm definitely a fan.
what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?
CH (no theromostat) is on for 90mins in the morning 6.30-8am; and 2 hours in the evening 5-7pm ish. Outside of that its not on (most of the time unless its silly-ly cold).
Over taped bubble wrap over the 2 single glazed windows in the kitchen and bathroom. Think it helps a wee bit and as they're opaque it doesn't really effect the light either.
Got spme with a thicker clear plastic backing.
Apart from that, log burner and then running the heating from 7pm for a couple of hours to warm the bedroom.
Elec blanket on for an hr before bed.
158kwh gas so far this month. Which is acceptable i think.
what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?
I've normally switched it off at 9pm and doesn't come back on till 6.45, house probably drops to about 15C in the kitchen (warmest room) overnight. By about 7.30 it's back up to 18 which is warm enough. The thermostat has a setting of 14C, IIRC, overnight to stop the place getting too cold to heat back up quickly in the morning.
During the cold snap morning temp range from 11-13. Stay at that most of the day. Wood burner in evening get living room up t 20 for a short while, rad (off wood burner) get rest up to about 15 Deg c. Kids bedroom has oil rad in it. We have electric blanket. WFH and have had a electric radiator on below my desk on low for today and last Thursday. I have a hat on nearly all the time I am not in the shower 😂.
Which means I don’t need all the benefit of the rebate which should have gone to those that need it, so instead I’m using it to top up the food bank cages at the supermarket
Off topic but I would never, ever buy food from the supermarket to put in the food bank cages. These are the same supermarkets exploiting massive inflation and claiming huge costs but cheerfully passing the same costs on to their customers to continue making hundreds of millions of pounds in profit.
I gave cash directly to the food bank and trust them to buy from the best place.
Off topic but I would never, ever buy food from the supermarket to put in the food bank cages.
me neither. if you don't leave the store with it, its not shoplifting...
what are people doing at night time, do you switch it off or turn it down?
It's off. It's on for an hour in the morning (6-7 in the week, 8-9 at weekends) then from 17:00 to 20:30 at night. Otherwise it's off. The house gets cold in the middle of the day/night, but it doesn't matter as we're not there or in bed.
These are the same supermarkets exploiting massive inflation and claiming huge costs but cheerfully passing the same costs on to their customers
Yet seemingly, a good chunk of people on here want to make transporting those goods to store even more expensive.....
theotherjonv - I turned mine down from 15 to 14 last night and that one degree seemed like two or three! I did notice that when I woke up in the night the boiler wasn't fired up so that's definitely better.
went from 19c in the evening down to 18 and that was definitely warm enough with some logs burning on the fire as well.
These are the same supermarkets exploiting massive inflation and claiming huge costs but cheerfully passing the same costs on to their customers
That's what companies do, if the cost of your raw materials rises, you generally increase the cost of your products.
Gross margins aren't amazing, Tesco is around 6%, which is hardly profiteering territory.
Mine's at 18.5 24/7 because I've got a serious problem with draughts and condensation due to some shoddy workmanship by a previous owner.
What used to be a porch has been knocked through into the house. So now I've got an extremely cold section of floor and (believe to be single skin) wall.
Is the expensive insulated wallpaper worth it? I can't internally insulate as it would overhang a window/door (which has been replaced last summer at great expense before I realised the cold wall problem) and look stupid.
We were away for 12 days over Christmas and the boiler failed so we got to monitor, via the Tado app, the temperature dropping day by day:
Day one heating goes off at 20.00, inside temp 20.5, 24hr later it dropped to 15.5, 48hr 13.5c, 72hr 13c.1 week 11c, 12 days 10c. When we got back it took 10 hrs of the boiler on full to get back up to 20c. Fortunately it was very mild outside (3-9c).
I would post the chart but ICBA to post images on this site.
This week it got down to -7 Sunday night, heating is set to 20.5c and goes of at 22.30, it click on again at 5am so the house is warm by 6.15. In the 6hr 30 it was off it dropped by 2c to 18.5. I'm surprised it dropped that little but we did top up the insulation to 300mm last summer (at the time it was a hellish job but now very glad we did).
Set back temp at night is 18c but it never comes on.
House is 8 years old and B rated so not so bad, but both front and back composite doors have now bowed out at the top and bottom. I've got some draft excluder weather strip to put on but is there anything better?
but is there anything better?
Aluminium doors I'm afraid! Spendy but wont change shape.
Thanks Sharkbait, I'll look into it.
On the subject of doors, I just stuck some 25mm PIR boards on the back of my cheap crappy door. Seems to have helped a bit, early completely scientific evaluation suggests that it doesn't feel as cold when you walk to the end of the hallway.
but both front and back composite doors have now bowed out at the top and bottom
I also have a tale of disappointment when it comes to a composite door as it ages. I've hung ceiling to floor curtains across the hall in front of it. Noticeable difference.
Oh yeah - get curtains for your door, definitely. You get a portiere rack that opens with the door, hang a thick curtain - easy, cheap, effective and much less ugly than Kingspan and duct tape.
Slightly enforced this week, boiler has gone into a death spiral.
sounds like someone on here….
The people I work with are exactly like that. In fact, he might even work here, let me check the directory.
The people I work with are exactly like that. In fact, he might even work here, let me check the
directorymirror.
😉
Yet seemingly, a good chunk of people on here want to make transporting those goods to store even more expensive…..
Yawn.
Ha HGV burns about half a liter of diesel per mile.
Handful of assumptions:
A family's shopping weighs about 30kg/week
The lorry holds 20 tons of stock
The lorry travels 150miles from distribution center to store.
Based on that it cost 19p in fuel. Say you buy 40 items, making diesel double the price would still add less than half a penny to each item.
It's a net saving if the price of fuel encourages you to drive one less mile per week.
Stop simping for Eddie Stobart.
Well, we're a month into living in our barn and its been damned cold outside for most of it up here. It transpires that our boiler, despite being just 18 months old, has no control mechanism other than circuit temp and a timer. Also, the "insulation" behind the walls appears to be the fact that the plasterboard has foil on the back of it. I can foresee many pallets of Kingspan in my future.
Have fitted a Bosch opentherm to ems converter to the boiler, to allow a modulating stat to drive it. Fitted 3 intelligent rad valves so far - there's 20 rads dotted about the place, all on one circuit. It's basically been a cash cow for the oil supplier. Trying to work out what will be of greatest benefit - fitting more valves or insulating the cold bits.
Borrowed a thermal camera to trace down the draughts and leaks. There are many: one wall in a room where there used to be a door into a stables was measuring 6C at 8pm last night. The patio doors don't seal properly as the locking mechs are tired. Have also got at least three windows to change the hinges on as they don't seal properly.
Well the door insulation has been really effective. Heating's only come on for a bit since I fitted it and it's quite chilly here today. Consequently the rest of the house, where the insulation is the same as before, is now quite chilly!
Definitely need a new door next winter.
Januarys scores on the doors are in .
not as painful as Decembers but still significantly more than last year .
Gas 305kwh, thats a combi boiler for heating , showers and a gas hob.
Elec 114kwh . Lights , oven , washer , drier .
£92 all in . Less the £67 from HMG , but ran a log burner almost every day
Hopefuly Febs will reduce a touch as it slowly warms up , Hows everyone else doing?
Our January bill was around £100 electric & £200 gas, less £67 gov subsidy. 4 of us in a 1980's 4 bed detached in the south, with gas central heating and no other heat source, electric use up this month due to dehumidifier & tumble dryer use.
Won't get bill yet but usage for Jan is £122 electric, £103 gas. 4 bed link semi, gas CH, water and hob. Tumbler and oven eat electricity for fun 😢 have a dehumidifier too.
Our credit has officially run out. 1st December - 31st January £800, holy f...
Got a refil of oil on Friday. 700l. We burned about 500 since moving in on 21st Dec. Clucking bell.
You do know you can tighten the locking bolts with an allen key? Just did this to my balcony door and the drauht has gone.
Apparently, the ideal is to have them tighter fitting in winter then loosen them off in the summer if they start to feel too tight when opening or closing.
January is in for me too. 343kwh electric,
1144kwh gas. For a fairly well insulated 1980 detached 3 bed.
20 quid less than last month at a smidge over 300 quid. Unsurprising since January weather has been virtually identical to December.
£650 energy bill this month, plus our first month of twins at nursery, that’s another £750, plus the fixed rate mortgage at 1.79% ends in a few months, that’ll be at least another £600 a month I think.
I’ll be bankrupt this year, and I earn a very respectable wage.
280kWh of electric and around 100l of oil in January, so around £185. We also generated 200kWh of electric from solar.
We knocked about 60kwh off last Decembers bill which in its self was about half of 2021s December bill
Total Cost was roughly the same as last year.
Hopefully next year we can knock it down again.
My bills come mid month
Nov-Dec was 302kwh electricity and 1407kwh of gas - total bill £272
Dec-Jan was 310 E and 1426 G £277
Not surprised Dec-Jan is a bit higher, even though it didn't have the longer cold snap it did have us off work and daughter back from Uni.
By comparison in Nov-Dec 2021, 443 E and 1912 gas so consumption is about 75% of the same last year - well done us! Bill was £151 though.......
Our credit has officially run out. 1st December – 31st January £800, holy f…
What temperature do you keep the house at?
I'm going to have to help my elderly father out with what he is signing up to.
A small, top floor, two bed modern retirement flat with brand new windows and (installed by me) 300mm of loft insulation.
All electric and brand new Quantumn storage heaters x2.
His monthly fixed rate with Octopus has ended. He was paying £40 a month.
New tariff recommended by Octopus = £320 a month.
Standing charge alone is 88p a day...
Matt - that cannot be right unless your dad has been using massively in excess on his previous tariff.
Get access to previous bills; check against applicable rates at the time.
Smart meter readings?
He's meticulous about meter readings, and he's now on a smart meter.
I think he's got calculations wrong somehow.... Even the 88p standing charge is twice what the cap should be around...
SVR standing charge from my supplier eon next is around 45p each, 90p/day.
Indeed - but he has no gas. So 88p is a huuuuge rise from the 24p I think he said he was paying.
Got a refil of oil on Friday. 700l. We burned about 500 since moving in on 21st Dec. Clucking bell.
have you checked for an oil leak? We’ve used 500L since October, the last couple of months using 1h30 heating Morning and same again in evening, up from 1h twice a day previously. Thermostat set at 21°C. I say this as my tank leaked over the summer, only lost a small amount of oil, thankfully.
In balance, I have the immersion on a 30m burst twice a day to top the water temp up as Solar thermal rarely gets water temp beyond 50°C this time of year and use woodburner heavily; used about £200 logs since autumn.
Got a refil of oil on Friday. 700l. We burned about 500 since moving in on 21st Dec. Clucking bell.
This means nothing unless put into perspective - size/type/age of boiler, size of house, how long the heating's on each day.
That said it's up there in terms of usage. You'd know about a leak as it would smell.
Our latest bill, for the last 25 days inc the most recent cold snap we used:
Electric: 221 kWh = £86.80
Gas: 116 m3 = £138.85
New tariff recommended by Octopus = £320 a month.
Standing charge alone is 88p a day…
We're with Octopus, bill from 2 days ago...
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However, they then deduct the HMG support from that kWh rate eg
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So, roughly 34p per kWh
I'm balancing radiators using a cheap eBay thermocouple based thermometer. The best way to attach the probes to the in and outflow pipes of the rads is with a big blob of Blutak, by the way. My lockshield valves require extremely small adjustments to get close to the right dT which is allegedly 30% of flow temperature. I must say it's really helping, there's a very tiny sweet spot between too much flow and not enough and it's helping me find it. House still warm and return temps are still low.
However, they then deduct the HMG support from that kWh rate eg
So they've set a tariff way higher than the capped rate and use the government money to bring it down to the capped level? That doesn't seem right. Surely you have a capped unit rate and then the government money comes off that? Have I mis understood (more than likely)