Not putting the heating on - how's it going...?

As a professional cable muncher, it galls me every time I see a ‘central heating wiring centre’ (box of spaghetti with a strip of choc blocks)

I’ve lived in three houses with S-plan systems. All have been wired in this style of zero care. Pretty sure the plumber has been told which colour goes where without any actual understanding of how the system actually works.

All three occasions I’ve ripped it out and re-done it with a semblance of neatness and order. Choc blocks are the work of the devil and should have been banned years ago.

You can get 20-way boxes that make the whole thing a lot easier to both install and understand, including some that take Wago connectors.

I would never trust a plumber to do anything electrical. It makes a mockery of the fact that they get signed off for gas boilers and unvented systems but don’t actually understand how it’s controlled.

It's a strange position to take, a bit of learning and understanding of something goes a long way.
Before the big price hikes I dind't pay much mind to my boiler.. I just set the temp on the stat, with two on/off periods a day and that was that.

But after a bit of learning I've fine tuned my flow temp, TRV's and HW temp and I'm undoubtably burning less gas with no 'quality of life' sacrifices.

Yes my bills are higher but thats because prices are outstripping pretty much any efficiency gains the end user makes - but i'm certainly paying less then I would be if I just stuck my head in the sand.

Currently im running a set back temp of 15c, but will boost it to 19c for an hour or two, but it becomes too warm and stuffy after a while.
I've no idea how folk can run at 21c or 22c...

Computers are an interesting analogy to boilers - they both have an air of myserious wizzardry about them to the layman, but a bit of learning and knowledge, and the misty veil clears and things are often less complex than they first seem when you have no understanding of a particular system or piece of hardware.

You could even use cars as an anology... the amount of people who don't know how to do an oil change, or even check the oil properly, or fit a spare tyre is pretty shocking.

Was doing pretty well in reducing has consumption by installing some tado kit, and have been experimenting with different schedules and temps. Was down to 60kWh/day average in December which is half of last years.
Had boiler running happily at 50 flow temp, so making some savings there too.
17 year old boiler has found the ultimate energy saving solution tho and has died, so consumption is now 0kWh

EPC calculation reckoned my house as i received it in 2012 should be using £2700 of oil...... - baring in mind that the oil price has significantly risen in that time.

we have over time insulated and improved our way down to >£1000 this year......

id like to see that down to £500 by ditching the oil hot water.

IFTTT didnt work yesterday so my house stayed on away mode all night unknown to me...... but no one noticed even though it was -1 outside. The insulation upstairs is working.

Solar is on the up and up./ its the 10th of jan and we already produced more than december full month. - solar really is incredible for 10 months of the year.....

A question, and I think this is the right thread, which I am struggling to explain.

Regarding energy prices and them being dictated by a global market:

- how come petrol and diesel, also bought on a global market ahead of time, has such a variation from country to country even after tax is removed? The prices also seem to be less volatile in the current situation.

- can a country, region or even individual town or village create a smaller market, an energy cost independence if you will? It seems that this ought to be a goal of more and more places?

– can a country, region or even individual town or village create a smaller market, an energy cost independence if you will? It seems that this ought to be a goal of more and more places?

I believe France wanted to cap energy price rises with legislation this as the current crisis took hold, but swiftly learned that they couldn't dodge global market forces. So they ended up subsidising a price cap.

Socialised energy is a different matter, either on a local or national level it should be possible - and even desirable - but I suspect the build cost for nuke stations, wind farms etc. are subsidised by promising the firms involved a slice of future profits.

Some woman im Wales orgamised a village funded turbine iirc.
She was pn the new years honors list

I haven't posted on the thread in a while. My heating's working really well with a higher flow rate and a lower temp still.

how come petrol and diesel, also bought on a global market ahead of time, has such a variation from country to country even after tax is removed?

Could be many reasons - demand, also subsidies (I think diesel is subsidised in many places) and I think that if you have refineries with a particular product then that product is cheaper, they may get crude from different places and refine different amounts. I seem to remember reading that fuel is cheaper closer to refineries in the UK so that suggests distribution costs are a factor.

can a country, region or even individual town or village create a smaller market, an energy cost independence if you will? It seems that this ought to be a goal of more and more places?

They have to buy their energy from somewhere unless it's renewable.

id like to see that down to £500 by ditching the oil hot water.

I'm not sure you'll do that quite, but it depends on a couple of variables.

To take a 200L tank of water from 12c to 55c requires 10Kw energy - lets be generous and say you use 2L of oil to achieve that (it's probably less as 1L of oil contains about 10Kw of energy) for 6 months of the year*.
(180 * 2) * 80p/L = £288

It's good but not £500.

* It's doubtful that you'd be heating the full tank from 12c every day so the starting temp would probably be higher thus requiring less KwH/oil to heat it.

I’ve got a combi with an onboard 40l tank currently not an external tank

It (up till lst month ) fired 3mins every 90 mins all it’s life + hot water demand

My heating was off from April to October and I still got through a significant amount of oil due to the bairns baths

Replacing the hot water side with a 250l tank and solar thermal + manual change over.

This lets me ditch the electric shower while retaining redundancy

I'm sick of feeling cold.  Thats how its going for me!  I'm trying to be economical but I hate feeling cold!

I’m sick of feeling cold. Thats how its going for me! I’m trying to be economical but I hate feeling cold!

Wear more clothes! I've had my heating on 4 times this winter, max of 1 hour each time.

It (up till lst month ) fired 3mins every 90 mins all it’s life + hot water demand

That sounds rediculous - 48 mins every day would probably heat a 250L tank (depending on your boiler size)!

Anyone else had their latest bill from she'll normally it's 5th of the month, nothing so far when I log into my account

Anyone else had their latest bill from she’ll normally it’s 5th of the month, nothing so far when I log into my account

Not had the bill from shell yet,but do know that it will be about £750 ,ouch.

That sounds rediculous – 48 mins every day would probably heat a 250L tank (depending on your boiler size)!

Quite probably . But I don't have a 250l tank to heat so it's academic.

Is a 5kw battery enough for. Pv set up?
I drain an everage of 200w an hr according to octopus. That's not really trying to not use electricity.
Some floating around on ebay at affordable prices.

5kwh is more like a capacitor to allow you to fully utilise the solar generated.

You'll not be charging at night and lasting all day on that if that's your plan

But it's a perfectly workable size if your intention is to be able to put the washing machine on without the sun nipping behind a cloud on a sunny day and you drawing from the grid.

Anyone else had their latest bill from she’ll normally it’s 5th of the month

Nope. I messaged them and apparently "your account has a fault, we've asked our technical team to sort..."

Clearly not just my account with a fault.

Sister got me a SHO oversized sherpa fleece hoodie blanket thing at xmas, and ive not had it off since i got it. Really warm, fluffy lining and big fluffy lined through pocket on the front.

Teyre about £15 on Amazon. Well worth it.

Aka . House coat.

Mrs t-r has one. Just about balances us out. Her in her house coat and me in my tee and shorts.....house at 17.

and ive not had it off since i got it.

Ruined your sex life then ?
I'll get mi coat !

Aka . House coat.

^tj earlier.We should start a freezing cold fashion discussion.

Just got Decembers bill, £190 for electric and gas.

I'm calling that a win for the efficiency savings on a 4-bed detached!

Thermostats on 17.5C 6am till 8pm as OH works from home.

New stuff this winter:
Rads all balanced
Boiler output temp set to ~63C so the HW cylinder can get to 55C, return is 50ish. This doesn't seem to change with pump speed so I suspect it's modulating to only ever have a ~12C dT.
HW comes on an hour before the heating and a couple of other hours during the day so that it's not pumping cooler CH water through the hot cylinder and wasting energy.
Pump set to minimum speed.
Cavity walls insulated.
Loft hatch properly insulated.
Most of the TRV's are set to 2 which seems to be ~16.5C and the doors closed, the rest are set to 3 (~17.5C) or 4 (the one on the non-window side of the living room so that one stays on longer in the evening than the one under the window blocked by curtains).

Other stuff:
70's brick built house, half arsed loft conversion where they've boarded it out and put more insulation and plasterboard on the 'roof' to make it a vaguely useable space. No idea how much actual insulation there is though. Ground floor is always cold underfoot as it's hardwood flooring laid straight onto concrete.

Not had the bill from shell yet,

Just spoken to Shell via chat, and apparently I won't be getting a bill until the beginning of February due to the tariff change on 1st January. I'm guessing this is the same for everyone with the same billing period. I know my mate is on the same billing cycle as I am.

@thisisnotaspoon - how many people living in that house if you don't mind my asking? (Our HW comes straight via combi - no HW tanks for us.)

Is a 5kw battery enough for. Pv set up?

I have a 5.2 kWh battery with solar. If you're an energy skinflint you'll need to draw from the grid in December / January.

Mine charges from the grid at off-peak hours and then supplies the house from 4.30am onwards. This covers breakfast, lots of lighting, heating (oil) for 2 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening, either the washing machine or tumble dryer, and a simple evening meal in a small oven. There's also a boiling water tap which is on during the day.

Beyond those times the sun provides enough energy to top the battery up during the day regardless of what you do, and April - October the sun is bright enough that no overnight charging is needed.

So while I could get another 2.4 kWh it's a bit pointless when it's only needed 90 days a year at worst, and even then can only save 81p/day.

👏 @thisisnotaspoon love that, and I don't feel so bad about our usage given there's 4 of us

My December bill increased by another 25% as I used a bit more heating for that one week of cold snap.

Cooking with electric cooker is expensive but somehow this seems to be the favourite for rental property. I am thinking of getting my landlord to switch it to gas but I doubt he would entertain such idea for safety etc.

Cooking with electric cooker is expensive

This is eye-wateringly expensive. So much so, I'm even looking at sodding air-fryers now. 😭

This is eye-wateringly expensive. So much so, I’m even looking at sodding air-fryers now.

Not bad a bill from shell but they've done something when my meter readings as they allowed me to reduce my DD (it has been at the bottom of the allowed range). So they've done use calcs I guess.

We have a combo microwave, you can do oven stuff with part microwave part heat much faster than an oven and it stays just as crispy.

Or just cook things that don't need the oven.

molgrips

We have a combo microwave, you can do oven stuff with part microwave part heat much faster than an oven and it stays just as crispy.

Or just cook things that don’t need the oven.

Only use the oven once a week now to cook a whole lot of stuff then freeze/fridge it so its either microding or stir-fry for the rest of the week. Have found that shutting myself in my little office with project work means I can leave the heating off all day and its still toasty in here. Going to my girlfriends place at the weekend saves a whole lot on heating but I do treat her by spending on quality ingredients and cooking for her in return 😀

I did laugh reading a forum post elsewhere about getting a bigger girl for the winter "get one with a higher tog rating" 😉 then someone suggested that should be "higher tug rating"!

then someone suggested that should be “higher tug rating”!

With a username of @MrOvershoot you may wish to be careful 🤔

fazzini

With a username of @MrOvershoot you may wish to be careful 🤔

Still counts as a happy ending right 😉

Any reason why I couldn't use a 13kw Mercedes car battery as a powerwall?
Then buy 6 x 230w panels, used from a solar farm.
Add in a 2kw inverter, i guess ypu want overcapacity for longevity, heat, safety etc. I can source this on ebay for close to £1k.
Obviously dont know how much use the battery will have had.
Where i live, south coast, its one of the most sunny places in the country.
I have a South facing garage roof, which is kind of tucked behind the neighbours so need to get a protractor and work out the elevation, but i think its full sun March to Oct.

My shell bill has finally appeared, there goes half my credit balance!

Are you saying December's bill was more than Nov? When did the cold snap start?

Any reason why I couldn’t use a 13kw Mercedes car battery as a powerwall?
Then buy 6 x 230w panels, used from a solar farm.
Add in a 2kw inverter, i guess ypu want overcapacity for longevity, heat, safety etc. I can source this on ebay for close to £1k.

Before you spend any money find a sparky who will wire all that up for you.

The inverter(is your 2kw inverter grid tied) and panels are no issue but plenty people have fallen fowl of trying to make a car battery into a house battery and failed to find a working BMS. To bring the voltage from car DC to house. - typically house is 48v

Insurance issues

And lastly . Cars are typically LnMC (Volatile and need heat controlled )

House are generally life4po - much more stable and temp tolerant....

So it can be done - but unless your doing it your self finding someone to put their name to it and for your insurance to remain valid might be tricky

molgrips

Are you saying December’s bill was more than Nov? When did the cold snap start?

First full week of December IIRC. To be precise for me it was 2pm on Friday 9th Dec while driving to West Kirby as I thought "Oh that's a bit cold" so put the heated seats on for the first time since last Feb & then @ 2:30pm it started to snow.

Before you spend any money find a sparky who will wire all that up for you.

The inverter(is your 2kw inverter grid tied) and panels are no issue but plenty people have fallen fowl of trying to make a car battery into a house battery and failed to find a working BMS. To bring the voltage from car DC to house. – typically house is 48v

Insurance issues

And lastly . Cars are typically LnMC (Volatile and need heat controlled )

House are generally life4po – much more stable and temp tolerant….

So it can be done – but unless your doing it your self finding someone to put their name to it and for your insurance to remain valid might be tricky

I'd also run any plans past your dno too first, they can get a bit funny if you fry one of their employees with your cobbled together system.

Ah ha! Just had my latest bill from shell appear. Oddly they've allowed me to reduce my DD again, weird as I put it to the minimum allowed only a few days ago. Makes little difference currently as it was already below the government energy bills support scheme payments so my DD is effectively zero currently.

Insurance issues

Our house insurance didn't ask anything about whether we had a Solar system or not, so I assume they don't care....

I've had the battery installed outside, so if it did ever burst into flames it would just scorch the brickwork up the side of the house rather than burn the house down....

Although I do wonder if anyone steals these things, it's basically £5k bolted to the back of the house...

Our house insurance didn’t ask anything about whether we had a Solar system or not, so I assume they don’t care….

Did your installer install a battery meant for a car ?

Yes you raise a good point about DNO. When you go to apply and look for the certification for your battery and if it's type approved I suspect you'll not be getting approved.

Although I do wonder if anyone steals these things, it’s basically £5k bolted to the back of the house…

Yes mine went in the attic because the risk of theft is real.

Did your installer install a battery meant for a car ?

Pretty sure that's not a specific exclusion in the house policy...

That's fine *footflaps said* might not apply if your lashed up battery causes a fire......

Without a DNO g99 certificate issued by your batteries manufacturer (mercedes?) You won't be getting DNO approval so it's academic really.

The main problem would be the inverter, a stand alone inverter just generates a crude sign wave at roughly 50 Hz and roughly 230v, a domestic solar inverter is syncing with the mains, tracking the tiny fluctuations in voltage as appliances switch on and off and adjusting it's output accordingly (inc disconnecting if the DNO supply fails).

The BMS is also managing battery health eg on dark winter days ours randomly charges and discharges the batteries to various levels, which I assume is to keep them in good condition.

You won’t be getting DNO approval so it’s academic really.

That doesn't actually stop you installing it!

Be amazed if there aren't loads of systems where the paper work was never completed. Not seen any for ours actually - do you get a copy?

Be amazed if there aren’t loads of systems where the paper work was never completed. Not seen any for ours actually – do you get a copy?

I assume you don't plan on exporting.

As for just not telling them - well if that's how your moral compass points - that's on you. Doesn't make it any less of an obstacle to fitting your system legitimately.(!)

Nothing (physically)stopping you bypassing the meter while your at it!10 minute job including finding the tools.

Be amazed if there aren’t loads of systems where the paper work was never completed. Not seen any for ours actually – do you get a copy?

Yes, you can't get an export MPAN without it.

December bill was £240 - ouch - but Nov was an estimate so I can say that Nov + Dec was £400. I thought I was doing quite well 🙁

Plumbing has become a hobby. I now think I want some bigger rads, ours are all pretty small.

I have been watching a little more what I am doing with heating but not to the level of detail that Molgrips has 🙂  I nevr used to bother at all - just put inon when cold

I have turned circulating water temp down ( modern combi boiler, old microbore plumbing and rads without fins) and turned the thermostat dow ( 18 not 20) and looking at a thermometer

Observations
It seems to take much longer for the flat to heat up so to get the same temperature rise so the heating needs to be on longer.  I am far from convinced turning the circulating water temp down to 60 has actually saved any gas to get the same temp rise in the flat

I feel really cold when the flat is at 16C even with thick socks on and two fleeces.

Its offices below my flat and post covid they are not in as much - I am obviously getting less heat rising up thru the building

I am far too lazy to actually monitor use properly!  i have an inefficient gas fire that heats one room - I really need to check out if that uses more or less gas than using the central heating

I need to get some thermostatic radiator valves!

Molgripos - there are calculations you can do for rad sizes - that must be right up your street!  IME rad sizes are usually over specced not under.  I'd be surprised if you need bigger.  Bigger rads to compensate for lower circulating temps would be a false saving would it not?  Total energy usuage would be similar?

It seems to take much longer for the flat to heat up so to get the same temperature rise so the heating needs to be on longer. I am far from convinced turning the circulating water temp down to 60 has actually saved any gas to get the same temp rise in the flat

It will. Let's assume for now your boiler is 100% efficient. It will burn to heat up the water in your radiator system, then switch off when that water is up to temperature. The water will then keep circulating, the rads will be warm heating up the house, and the water will get cooler until the boiler comes back on again. If the set flow temperature is lower, then the water will heat up to that temp quicker but the rooms will get warmer more slowly. But it will even out, because all the heat generated by this hypothetical boiler ends up in the house one way or the other.

Now, your boiler isn't 100% efficient - there are two things that affect this. The main one is the condensing, so the warmer your return temp the less efficient it is. The other is short-cycling, turning off and on less than say 3 mins each time. The reason for lowering your flow temp is that it also lowers the return temp. If you run it hot, more of the heat from the gas will be escaping through the flue. If your flow temperature is 60C then the return might be say 50C, which is alright. But if your flow is at 50C then the return might be 41C which is much better. You will gain 3-4% efficiency or something.

Your boiler will vary its heat output, so that when you turn it down it will try to turn itself down to maintain a constant temperature in the flow water. The problem is that most boilers don't go down low enough to match the heat output from the radiators, especially in a small property. If you turn the flow temperature down the radiators output less heat, which means the boiler needs to put less heat into the system. If it can burn low enough to match that heat and keep a constant flow temperature then fine; but if not it will have to turn itself off and on. If it's turning off and on every 3 minutes or so, it loses a tiny bit of efficiency, but if it's off and on every 30s it loses quite a bit, like 5% or so IIRC. So if your boiler is very powerful it will heat up the water too quickly and have to switch off again.

The other factor is that if your boiler can turn itself down really low (someone here has one that goes down to 1.5kW) then it will also gain efficiency by having a really big heat exchanger relative to the size of the flame.

The problem with running low temperatures though is the heat output from the radiators might not be enough, so in cold weather you may have to turn it up and take the hit on efficiency. Lower temperatures work better with bigger radiators - or smaller better insulated rooms, or both.

TL;DR the hotter your flow the more heat is leaving your house via the flue, end of. Go as low as you can to get the house to heat up. You may have to run it longer, but that doesn't matter.

Bigger rads to compensate for lower circulating temps would be a false saving would it not?

No. The bigger the rad, the more heat can be dumped into the room at a lower temperature. So the cooler the return temps, and the more efficiently the boiler works.

If you had say an electric boiler that simply put energy into the water then yes, you'd be correct. But because this is a gas boiler the efficiency of the gas flame/water heat exchanger is a factor; and because it's a condensing boiler the efficiency is affected by the return temp. If I have bigger rads with water flowing in at the same rate, the water will be cooler as it exits the radiator as it's been in there longer shedding heat. And cooler return temps = more efficiency.

Fair enough

Might take a long time to pay back the cost of the new rads tho

Might take a long time to pay back the cost of the new rads tho

If you're paying £2k a year for gas, then a 4% increase in efficiency would save £80/year. A 600 x 900 type 22 rad is at least £75.
Chances are you're changing to a bigger radiator than this, so even if you swapped the radiator FOC (fairly doubtful) you're probably not going to save enough to pay for 1 radiator/year.

Might take a long time to pay back the cost of the new rads tho

Yes it might, but we'd have a much warmer living room during that period. I think it's a single panel 60x90 so yeah the replacements are about £75 which could get ma double panel 60x120 I think and 3x the heat output.

£75 which could get ma double panel 60×120

As I said 60 x 90 Type 22 is £75 at Screwfix... that's the cheapest one that size.

Why would it be warmer? Surely it would get to the same temp but potentially save you up to 4% off your gas bill.
(plus would you not need to swap all your rads to larger ones before turning the flow temp down otherwise the rooms with smaller rads would be colder. Serious Q)

Surely it would get to the same temp

Yes, but there'd be two or three times as much area to transfer heat from. And yes you are right some of my rads would still be small but not all the rooms have the same heat requirements. It's a 3 storey house, the downstairs is cold for whatever reason - maybe the front and back door, maybe the existence of the integral garage, on top of the fact that the heat simply rises. The downstairs rads are also last in the circuit so they lose more heat from longer pipe runs; the upstairs rads are the same temp as the boiler output and the downstairs ones a fair few degrees lower. The kitchen rad was already a big one, the hallway one we made big many years ago. The next coolest room is the living room - it's big and has two tiny rads in it. The bedrooms also have small rads but they are upstairs so warmer anyway; they are smaller, and the rads get hotter anyway. I could put the ones from living room into the landings, on which the current rads are even smaller, but there might not be enough space.

Yes, but there’d be two or three times as much area to transfer heat from.

.... but it's still the same temperature, it would just heat up quicker! (?)

Re the other information: I'm sure your own property has its own quirks (and it sounds it) but I thought you were advocating everybody change their rads for bigger ones (if 'normal' size). I was querying whether you needed to do them all at the same time - it seems you probably do - which is pretty spendy for a potential saving of £80/year.

Combined bill from 27th September to 5th January was £360.00.Thank Boris I got £200.00 of the bill.Come April and the end of the support scheme, I will have to make serious savings.The tories will pay for this at the next election.

but it’s still the same temperature, it would just heat up quicker!

The heat loss from the room is proportional to the temperature in it. The warmer you make the room the more power (energy * time) flows out of it, so the more power you need to put in. Therefore smaller rads might be ok to keep the room at 15C but if I want it at 20C I'll either need hotter rads (bad) or larger rads. The larger rads will heat up to 45C but put three times as much energy into the room, so they can heat 3x the volume of air to 45C.

Re the other information: I’m sure your own property has its own quirks (and it sounds it) but I thought you were advocating everybody change their rads for bigger ones (if ‘normal’ size). I was querying whether you needed to do them all at the same time – it seems you probably do – which is pretty spendy for a potential saving of £80/year.

Yeah you're right. Basically, the cooler you make your flow temps, the bigger your rads need to be to heat the same rooms. Wether or not it's worth changing rads is up to you - I think that in my case I think that one room is under-specced so they can be changed. I can do this myself easily, so I might. I doubt it'll pay for itself but hey ho. If I were going for the cheapest option I'd just nudge the boiler temp up a bit, lose a few % efficiency until it warms up again.

it would just heat up quicker!

It has to add heat faster than it's being lost, that's the key point. Too-small or too-cold rads won't just heat the room up slower, they won't heat it up at all because they won't outstrip the heat loss.

Of course, turning the flow temp up by 10C doesn't increase the return temp by 10C, because more heat is being emitted by the rads at a higher temp... I'm now back at 60C in this cold weather with return temps up to 52C.

I dunno, I think I'm going to buy motorised rad valves, stick sensors all over everything and create my own smart heating system....

Afternoon. Me here with the 2022 boiler.

I've not gone so far as to measure return temps, but the flow is still 47° on mine. I didn't get the weather compensation fitted so I would have to do it manually and I can't be bothered. I can get away with this because I have relatively large radiators and a pretty good thermal envelope.

The boiler will modulate as required automatically to achieve 47° flow, down to as low as 1.5kw it often just trundles along like this and makes the contrast with the full bore burn for HW quite noticeable.

In the minus 5 mornings, the house DOES take longer to warm up, but I've set the heating up to start earlier to compensate. It's still a touch chilly, but thats not really a bad thing since it stops lazy teenagers be late for the college bus, and stops lazy adults from just flopping about inefficiently before work...

Does your boiler have an internal pump?

Yes. System boiler. Chosen because its fully integrated with the electronics that decide the burn rate so it all works together. Also covered by the same warranty unlike a stand alone.

That's what I'd like. Probably a grand and a half's worth though eh?

My living room temp is at 11.4c at the moment.

Hands and feet are very cold.

Somehow I noticed, central heating working fine, my flat does not retain heat for longer period than before. Damn, my bill will go up again this month.

C.1300.

2700 for a new stainless cylinder, boiler, ancillaries, install and conversion to an unvented system - I took a risk on leakage risks that went my way.

The advantage with the system boiler is you get all new integrated flow control paraphanalia as part of the install instead have having old diverter valves and pumps lying about to crap themselves down the line, plus it all works better as part of the integrated design.

I think you building structure is the root of your problems chewkw. Are you not able to add insulation?

At 11.4° I suspect you're below dewpoint. Wet walls will get even colder and you are in a downward spiral.

I think you building structure is the root of your problems chewkw. Are you not able to add insulation?

At 11.4° I suspect you’re below dewpoint. Wet walls will get even colder and you are in a downward spiral.

No, it is rented property with the neighbour not around most of the time so not much heating on.

Arrgghhh ... yes, feels like downward spiral now. Now I need to heat longer. Where are my neighbour when I need them to heat up the place. arrghhh ...

Move or speak to your landlord.

I have the same issue with my downstairs neighbour, I think he works on the rigs, when he is away for 3 weeks my house (1st and 2nd floor "double-upper" as they say in Scotland) is noticeably colder!

I just had a new boiler installed with all the fancy NEST stuff, you really have to keep an eye, it decided the house was too cold at 0200 last night and cranked it up to 20 degrees. My tech support will be over this weekend to help me set it up usefully.

The advantage with the system boiler is you get all new integrated flow control paraphanalia as part of the install instead have having old diverter valves and pumps lying about to crap themselves down the line, plus it all works better as part of the integrated design.

That doesn't actually sound like an advantage as they'll all need replacing long before the tank itself does. We must get through a new pump every 5-6 years and the odd motorised valve maybe every 8 years.

Not putting the heating on – how’s it going…?

Badly!! Got home from another week working in Glasgow and living room was 11 degrees...heating on 😂 35 minutes later, and we've achieved 14.5. I may have to turn it off again 🤔🤣

Talk to the landlord.
And say what? The government have given me £400 towards my heating, but i spent it all on sticky buns and penny chews. So I've no money for heating, and the moisture in the air from showers, breathing and cooking is condensing on the coldest wall of each room.

So tell me please mr landlord, what are you going to do about it?

I can tell you pretty much what the landlord will say. Turn. The. Heating. On.

That doesn’t actually sound like an advantage as they’ll all need replacing long before the tank itself does

It does to me. They're all in the boiler as service items and thus covered by a 10 year warranty on the new install.

If I had relied on the old stuff in the house that was 12 years old, I would have less efficiency, less reliability and less protection if it failed.