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Anyone joined? I've just seen them pop up on twitter a bit recently. Worth a bash imo.
Not really, if the UK breaks up in the way some people want there will nothing left. Never quite understand why people think even more amateur local politicians will be better than the Westminster politicians, still politicians but with less weight.
Granted Westminster is a mess at the moment but retreating to our own backyards isn't the answer.
Totally pointless.
Loonies and fruitcakes
We need PR and regional assemblies not independent regions. I understand the idea and feeling behind it but it's the wrong way to go about it I think.
With the whippet in the logo, who is supposed to be in on the joke? And what is the joke?
Well, if an area of England seeking independence has a population of 5 million it makes as much sense as Scottish independence.
Er, Brexit was an English venture. Northern England as a whole was the most decisive vote to leave. I can’t see why they’d now vote to split from the rest of England when it was only London who wished to remain.
*Edit.
Ah, a socialist party. The dirtiest word in politics today. May as well pack it up. Even if it were the right gravy you’re still travelling on the wrong train.
We need PR and regional assemblies not independent regions. I understand the idea and feeling behind it but it’s the wrong way to go about it I think.
This
When independence chat gets thrown about the first thought i have is so how will you pay for this new independence. I would put the chances of a currency union with England being slim to none. If you haven't got that worked out its all a non starter.
With the whippet in the logo, who is supposed to be in on the joke? And what is the joke
The joke is on the south's perception of said northerners. They also like whippets. The humour has got them a lot of attention. Smarter than anything thrown around Labour's digital department.
Their aim is to throw ideas around, tackle the North/South divide by shining a light on the perception of Northerners as pie-eating racists with little to offer.
In the same way UKIP were massively influential with barely any seats.
They're a result at the lack of a progressive left.
I say crack on. Good for them. They're pissing all the right people off.
Ha ha, they’ve got a whippet on the logo
Brilliant! That’s really, like, clever and you know, like... ironic and stuff
Seriously... **** off!
Brexit let the genie out of the bottle
It wont end until we're back to this
Only two regions of the UK generate a net profit as in pay more tax than they get in government spend (London and the South East). So any other region which wants to split off is going to be poorer in the short term and probably in the long term.
Only two regions of the UK generate a net profit as in pay more tax than they get in government spend
Does that include the tax paid on companies traded on stock exchange or HQ'd in London, but actually profit/value earned other parts of the UK, but put down as 'London' tax take? I don't know what the figures are on this, but am interested.
Only two regions of the UK generate a net profit as in pay more tax than they get in government
Due to decades of catastrophically bad misrule of the country by the SE based government.
Due to decades of catastrophically bad misrule of the country by the SE based government.
So there’s more MPs for the south east and London than the rest of the uk then?
Does that include the tax paid on companies traded on stock exchange or HQ’d in London, but actually profit/value earned other parts of the UK, but put down as ‘London’ tax take? I don’t know what the figures are on this, but am interested.
yes
Look at the numbers in a different way and its Scotland that has kept the UK afloat for the last 4 decades.
London also has the highest tax spend per head of population of any region in the UK and is massively subsidised
yes
Got a source @tjagain?
Some examples of what I'm thinking about:
- BP extract gas in Scottish waters, but post the profits via London HQ.
- Price of standing timber in Welsh or Scottish forests goes up, so value of Tilhill/BSW goes up on stock exchange, netting a bonus for traders and income tax paid in London.
You have it there really Matt. I have no specific sources just a lot of reading over the years.
there is an estimated proportion of many of these figures incluced in the GERS figures but its oft seen to be a gross underestimate
I would be looking to google " criticism of GERS" for starters but take a big pinch of salt with you
also McCrone report from the 70s to see how Westminster manipulated the numbers and the discussions around that report
It wont end until we’re back to this
Load of rubbish, why not go for the tribes of pre Roman Britain, or the post Roman kingdoms of Elmet and Rheged. You could go for the old Yr Hen Ogledd.
It could be the old palatine areas which were self governing to an extent in Norman Britain.
I also think the Scottish might be miffed with East Lothian on your map
Starmer has talked about a federal UK, I think if placed alongside reform of Westminster it would be a vote winner.
Other countries have had political parties come from nowhere and win elections. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it could happen here.
I'm desperate for something to ****ing change it's a shit show here at the mo.
Shit gets through the swear filter I never noticed!
Load of rubbish, why not go for the tribes of pre Roman Britain,
Well I was slightly tongue in cheek!
My point was that the populist nonsense of brexit where the distant elites are blamed for all our ills applies just as well to Westminster, Infact many of the actual problems were always rooted there, rather than Brussels.
The culture war, flag & statue obsession of the Tories is great at galvanising their core, but it only exacerbates divisions
The UK is fragmenting, NI & Scotland wont be part of it within a decade, that'll leave the English regions to squabble amongst ourselves
Starmer has talked about a federal UK, I think if placed alongside reform of Westminster it would be a vote winner.
Its probably the only thing that will keep the UK together
My faith in the electorate to see that is not great
I suppose this will have the full support of the Tories. Split up the left wing votes from the crumbling red wall.
My point was that the populist nonsense of brexit where the distant elites are blamed for all our ills applies just as well to Westminster, Infact many of the actual problems were always rooted there, rather than Brussels.
Could this apply to Scexit? Everything can't be Westminster's fault despite what the SNP say
The culture war, flag & statue obsession of the Tories is great at galvanising their core, but it only exacerbates divisions
The SNP have been waging a taxpayer funded culture war against the Union, the collection of grifters and organisations dependent on the largesse of the SNP is creating a politics where dissenting voices are essentially called unScottish and defunded, and all the Scots who live and work in England who don't agree disowned. SNP Scottish nationalism is "civic", anything to to with Britian painted with disgust and distain under the insult of "Westminster"
The UK is fragmenting, NI & Scotland wont be part of it within a decade, that’ll leave the English regions to squabble amongst ourselves
Republic will be in a quandary over getting NI despite all the noise, they couldn't afford the cost or the turmoil and the parties will be factoring the demographic and political issues that will come with it , they'll need to beg EU and US for support and Biden will be gone by then. If it does happen I can see the special arrangements for free movement getting a hard time and eventually going long term, there is a significant and growing part of England that doesn't have the old ties and bears no resemblance to images lazily given
Could this apply to Scexit? Everything can’t be Westminster’s fault despite what the SNP say
Yeah, for sure, it's one of the reasons Scexit is inevitable, this kind of politics is part off our system now.
anything to to with Britian painted with disgust and distain under the insult of “Westminster”
Yep its why the Johnson approach of flags, flags, flags just backfires
Republic will be in a quandary over getting NI despite all the noise, they couldn’t afford the cost or the turmoil and the parties will be factoring the demographic and political issues that will come with it
NI is different from Scotland, ironically Johnsons Brexit deal has cut NI off from rUK before the electorate were ready for it.
Just look at the flag issue there, Johnsons flags on public building rule doesn't apply there, even though that's really upset the unionists!
You shouldn't underestimate the ability of the DUP to make things worse for themselves & unionism, either.
Other countries have had political parties come from nowhere and win elections. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that it could happen here.
Even the most cursory glance at what they’re putting out will very quickly show that for this bunch of clowns winning any elections will most definitely be beyond the realms of possibility
https://twitter.com/freenorthnow/status/1378301937305653253?s=21
It’s like some really, really bad parody. It’s actually so bad that it’s an insult to everyone’s intelligence
This is what happens when the Labour party decides that being the Labour party is unfashionable.
I’m prepared to give up Edinburgh and the Borders in exchange for the Lake District.
Owen Jones interviewed Philip Proudfoot of the N.I.P. on his YouTube channel the other day, and I must admit, he makes a convincing argument. It was so convincing in fact, that I thought it was an April Fools wind-up!
🙄 Apparently he’s running on a democratic socialist ticket, and all those ‘red wall’ voters that turned their backs on socialism at the last general election are going to be queuing up to vote for him because they’re disenchanted with the Tories and Labour isn’t socialist enough anymore! Right on.
Edward Woodward has let himself go!
Happy to admit ignorance on this but the picture big_n_daft paints isn't one I'm aware of. Saying that, I don't pay attention in detail to politics, so I'm not really aware of how it all works or what is happening in any detail.
I am sure the Union is doomed, but likewise, not entirely sure Scotland can go it alone; suspect Wales could be keen to do likewise as well at some point.
UK politics has died, democracy is pretty much non-existant and it appears to have very little greater good for the people at the heart - seems to be more about supporting the mates - a view from someone who doesn't pay much attention to political details.
Not helpful. But partly a result of not having an effective opposition to the Tories. One reason SNP get support is that independence gets away from them. Unfortunately it boosts their majority in the UK. NIP would do the same.
Apart from that, independence nationalism just fragments and introduces barriers to trade and travel. It doesn't solve anything. As an example, if Scotland is independent, there will still be people in the Highlands who resent being ruled from Edinburgh.
The SNP have been waging a taxpayer funded culture war against the Union, the collection of grifters and organisations dependent on the largesse of the SNP is creating a politics where dissenting voices are essentially called unScottish
But money coming from Russia and other dark sources into the coffers of the Tory party is just fine? The only people who have been funding a ‘war’ against the Union have been the Tories - charging through with a Brexit agreement and a NI Protocol that breaks international treaties and destroys the livelihood of fisherman and farmers. The sad fact is that there are too many flag-shaggers happy to wave their AZ vaccination certificates claiming some sort of phyrric victory thinking of their sunny uplands when the reality is decades more austerity and the shovelling of public money into the pockets of their chums supported by a MSM ‘blind’ to any malfeasance.
I assumed from the whippet and all that this was an April fool - no?
London also has the highest tax spend per head of population of any region in the UK and is massively subsidised
Not accourding to the ONS, but feel free to provide your own data....
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51093795787_e2a7e46122.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51093795787_e2a7e46122.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kQZ4pz ]Redistribution[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
https://www.ft.com/content/44455301-6ef2-4528-bd3c-6bfa6376ef36
It's true London has a massive spend on capex eg Cross-rail etc, but it also generates by far the highest tax revenues and still subsidises the regions even accounting for the large infrsastructure projects.
Footflaps - the question about where tax is generated versus where it’s paid is valid. If Scotland were independent (as opposed to vassal as at present 😉) then economic activity in Scotland would pay tax in Scotland not at the company HQ in London.
There would be a redistribution of where tax is paid. How much? Different question.
The last time I saw a serious attempt to answer the question it was the Guardian 20 years ago and they concluded Scotland was a net contributor.
But you can could things different ways. Is spending on London infrastructure a national asset or a souteast investment? You could go either way and you get a different answer in spend per capita.
Is HS2 for the benefit of London based knowledge workers who’ll find it easier to do jobs for Birmingham or Leeds companies? Because it isn’t for plumbers from Manchester, and probably not commuters, it benefits those who can consolidate operations at a central hub - London. (See some of the experiences in other countries that built high speed rail - Spain rings a bell but I’d have to check.
So the bit in the Midlands - is that Midlands investment, London investment, or where the contractors HQs are, or where the craftsmen etc live? All valid answers, all different.
Ask me when I’m on the train south for a morning flight out of Heathrow and I’ll tell you exactly what the answer is. Probably including some naughty words.
economic activity in Scotland would pay tax in Scotland not at the company HQ in London.
That rather assumes the HQ would be relocated to Scotland in the event of Scotland leaving the UK, in reality unlikely to happen. You may also find other companies currently with an HQ in Scotland decide to move south of the border to avoid issues from any transition period (probably 10 years or more) where Scotland slowly leaves the UK and tries to join the EU (if the latter doesn't happen then the exodus of business would become a flood).
What you miss tho is the profits would be assessed as scottish and scots taxation paid on them
Also highly likely to get a lot of companies moving to Scotland to remain in the EU.
Footflaps - thats not ALL government spending tho is it. Add in the spending on salaries and the numbers look very different
this is why i said it all depends on how you look at the numbers. That does not include all the government spending on whitehall saleries, MPs, Lords, quangos etc etc
Not really. It assumes a sensible tax regime.
Properly managed it might well pull some companies that want an English speaking presence in a European friendly (and potentially EU over time) country into Scotland - see Dublin at the moment.
I’m Scots, stay in Yorkshire and anti-independence really. Breaking up economic unions isn’t normally a good thing, but Brexit was almost an act of treason against the UK and UK people, and the English nationalist government, for that is exactly what BoJo is, ain’t helping.
I have sympathy with Scotland wanting to leave this mess even if I hope for something better myself.
A federal Europe is probably the best long term outcome - however unlikely. Similar size to the US (on a bakers dozen type ruler) and a similar position on state versus nation might work. Not convinced myself.
Otherwise I see the troubles returning and possibly western european wars again like we used to have.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12451212.subsidy-junkies-jibe-is-a-well-scotched-myth/
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public
Etc etc
there is no doubt at all that over many many decades the numbers have been used in an illegitimate way to hide scotlands financial power and londons taking money from the rest of the country
Call my cynical but there looks to be good money in setting up a political party, especially if you're clearly not going to get anywhere near power and have to do anything. Didn't that walking definition of knob head Fox get £5 million for his lot?
I assumed from the whippet and all that this was an April fool – no?
I used to think Farage was just a performance art homage to Alan Partridge
Also highly likely to get a lot of companies moving to Scotland to remain in the EU.
You are regurgitating SNP policy which hasn't been updated to reflect we have left the EU and that rejoining would be years away for iS. You'd think they would update prior to campaigning for indyref2....
https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is-the-snp-s-position-on-the-eu/
iS would be outside the current UK-EU deal so would be third country for UK-EU trade, or it could be in the EU (unlikely but let's go with it) so there would be a single market border with England. Either way you put a border in with rUK at the behest of the EU.
What you miss tho is the profits would be assessed as scottish and scots taxation paid on them
Except multinational companies work around this eg, Starbucks, Amazon, Google, apple etc
iS would be competing with Ireland and rUK to try and offer tax incentives
Matt
There is a well established Independence Party for the north. It’s called the Yorkshire Party. Freedom for Yorkshire and it better be cheap.