[Closed] #nopalmoilchristmas

Just out of interest ...

Uh oh.

Is there’s more veg oil used in animal feed than in bio-fuel? If bio-fuel is over 50pc of our palm oil usage I can’t see how there can be.

Sorry, I was referring to ingestion when I said use.

Genuine question though - how do I personally use bio-fuel? Not sure where I come into day to day contact with it.

How about just stopping buying the (non-essential) products?

Like fermented shark. Way to go, Iceland.

100pc in agreement with that. (and I’ve lost 3 stone in 6 months and reducing veg oils must have contributed to that.)

…but where I do need veg oil it seems that palm oil is going to require about 1/4 of that land use relative to the alternatives. If people switch out palm oil we are going to require far more land, not less.

Nice one on the weight loss 🙂

If we stop buying stuff we don't need that has palm oil in it then surely the land that has already been given over to producing the stuff would suffice? We don't need nutella, or peanut butter with it in, or shit chocolate, or make-up...

Well I’m not sure that most people would consider buying their every day essentials from an expensive specialist online-only ethical superstore to be “fairly easy”.

But I applaud your effort if you do.

Nicely taken out of context 😉 My point was that a quick google threw up a load of results for palm oil free stuff, plus you don't buy everyday essentials every day, do you?

how do I personally use bio-fuel?

Nothing to do with what I was asking but t<span style="font-size: 0.8rem; line-height: 1.3;">he most obvious way is that you and I buy stuff that is delivered by lorries and some of those are running on bio fuel. </span>

If we stop buying stuff we don’t need that has palm oil in it then surely the land that has already been given over to producing the stuff would suffice?

No, if we switch away from palm oil you'd need far more land, for the reasons already stated. Unless mankind buys 4x more veg oil than it needs with given one child dies every 30 seconds from hunger I very much doubt.

My point was that a quick google threw up a load of results for palm oil free stuff

Yeah, but it is specialist stuff that is a) very expensive and b) not widely available.

That Green People toothpaste you linked to is £3.95 for 50ml and you have to order it online.

That takes some commitment when you can pop into ASDA on the way home and pick up a 75ml of Colgate for 80p.

So my point is that yes, there are options, I agree, but suggesting that they are "fairly easy" is a bit disingenuous.

Suprised no one has responded to this...

there has to be less of us.

That I agree with.

But global genocide is such a loaded term. 😉

Weird thing is, the targets of industrialized genocide tend to be in countries where there’s far less wealth and thus consumption (albeit normally a wealth of natural resources to be exploited)

That would suggest either:

a) We need to reconsider where the (environmentally destructive) weapons are aimed

or alternatively,

b) Reduce consumption

Could that and the previous points raised regarding how Theresa May's Husband, BAE, HSBC and British Cycling fit into the palm oil debate be 'too political' perhaps?

But it is fairly easy! Click, click, click... knock on the door... delivered. That's certainly easier than popping into Asda 🙂 It's more expensive but your argument is a bit 'but what about meeeee' to be frank.

But it is fairly easy! Click, click, click… knock on the door… delivered.

£3.95 delivery charge.

That’s certainly easier than popping into Asda

It's really not though is it? Chances are you'll pass a supermarket, or shop or chemist or be in there doing some other shopping anyway (unless you buy everything from specialist online ethical retailers?

And even if it was easier to get it online for some reason, it's not easier than using the same click, click to add it to my ASDA delivery along with the rest of my unethical shopping.

It’s more expensive but your argument is a bit ‘but what about meeeee’ to be frank.

Well Frank, I'm just trying to be realistic here. I think asking the general public to spend more than SEVEN times the price for ethical palm-oil-free toothpaste is just not a viable solution.

You're not being realistic though are you, you're defending your lazy, easy, cheap choices and that's why the world will continue to be ****ed over, because people are too lazy/selfish to think about something other than themselves or doing something that might take a little more thought or effort on their part. Nice one!

You’re not being realistic though are you, you’re defending your lazy, easy, cheap choices

Sorry to break it to you, but that is realistic. People like lazy, easy, cheap choices. You won't change that.

Yes it is selfish and lazy and all that other bad stuff. I agree. But I'm afraid that is how people are.

If/when buying palm-oil-free products is as simple as reaching for something else on the shelf then we'll get somewhere.

But while it still involves buying very expensive and unfamiliar brands from specialist retailers, it will only ever appeal to committed environmentalists.

That's shit. But it is realistic.

Shopping is a PITA. you have your traffic light system and now you have to scour a miniscule ingredients list to find out the big bad additives. and when doing that you have to go through three or four options to find one that meets your criteria.

I don't use online food shopping but does it contain a filter option to exclude things based on fat content and particular ingredients?

Yes it is selfish and lazy and all that other bad stuff. I agree. But I’m afraid that is how people are.

So why not change how you do things, bit by bit*? One person changing how they do some stuff is better than nobody doing anything at all 🙂 You never know, it might catch on.

*not saying you haven't/aren't, but the way we've been coming at it from opposite sides would suggest that you're resigned to Just The Way Things Are.

you’re resigned to Just The Way Things Are.

Probably accurate. But when half the products in the average household shopping contain palm oil and there is no interest in changing that, or even labelling it clearly so consumers can make a choice, then I think the battle is already lost. 🙁

(And to be clear, I'm saying that as someone who has been aware of the palm oil issue for over a decade, who supports Orangutan Appeal UK, has visited the rainforest, has written to my MP, and who positively welcomes the Iceland/Greenpeace campaign)

Moving away from the debate about which veg oil requires least land it occurs to me that countries with large amounts of rain forests are essentially exporters of Oxygen. (Unless I've got my science wrong which is likely!) It would be handy if the world could find a way for them to monetize that export to the point where it's not worth then growing bio-oil or food. (Then you have to have the debate about whether food and fuel is more important than oxygen, which given one child dies of hunger every 30 seconds might not be as simple as we think maybe we should be be growing rain forest equivalents in the sea.)

So it turns out Iceland's pledge to remove Palm Oil from it own brand products was really a pledge to remove their Own Brand from their Palm Oil products 🙂

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46984349

Yeah Spennyy did actually say that on page 2 but I missed it with all the other discussion going on

with Iceland they are removing palm from their own brand products apart from where it’s too expensive, at that point the food is under a 3rd party brand which is theirs and does contain palm.