[Closed] Non German or RWD Mile Munching Saloon Options?

S60.

Mazda 6

5 Series with X-drive.

Like minded Captain F. I quite fancy an S 60 or V60 but with the introduction of the new model prices seem to jump from around £17k for a 2018 to £24k for a 2019. I would struggle to justify spending £24k on a small saloon.

My best friend at work had a Mazda 6 and he didn't get along with it. Kind of put me off but I may try a test drive.

X Drive in BMW seems to go hand in hand with M Sport trim no?

Something Japanese or Korean

Stick some winter tyres on a BMW and 50 kilos of sand in the boot and they are unstoppable. This is our farm drive and is proper steep in the middle. I now have the same winter tyres on an Audi A3 and it won't go up the hill forwards like the Beemer, I have to reverse it up to get traction.

I’m with Welshfarmer on this. Don’t worry about RWD in the snow. As long as you’re on the correct tyres they’re better than FWD. Soon as you’re away from a standing start the weight transfer is rearwards and pushing the back tyres into the deck. We’ve currently got a 320i with a set of Pirelli sottozero RFTs for the colder months and it’s a beast in the snow. Only thing that would stop it is ground clearance but at that point you’ve gotta consider if you should be out in it at all.

Mondeo is obvious... Considered Subaru? if bad weather is a concern, they're awesome at it

Several things..

I’ve got a BMW Touring. We have a steep road and I have winter tyres.. I was one of the few who could get out when it snowed.

if you go backwards in a RWD it becomes FWD...

however Volvo or Mazda in whatever size suits your needs....

Audi All-road?

Volvo Cross Country

Seriously, how many snowy day’s a year do you actually have? Even if you have to walk up the hill a couple of days a year does it really warrant selecting a car purely on the basis you MIGHT get it up a snowy incline a couple of times a year if you even see snow that year?

S60.

This.
Pre-facelift is ace.
5-pot, heated seats, the posher stereo, it just purrs along, and on a winter's day is just lush.
Stuff paying that much for a car.

I’ve been shocked by how many cars are now RWD.

What cars are you looking at .

I off top of my head I can think of beemer/Merc /Jag.

Hasn't really changed for about 25 years.

What sort of parts failures you having on your passat cc at what age that has put you off all German cars.

Consider a subaru, outback is just a normal estate with higher suspension.
Fwd is usually better in snow because more weight is over the driven wheels.
Diesel is better than petrol for the same reason.
Volvo do 4wd in some of their cars too.
For those saying we only get 2 days of snow a year, err, you don’t live where the op lives, or where i live.
Inverness gets -10c every morning for a couple of months, virtually every winter.
Snow tyres ftw though, they really do make a massive difference, if you have any polish friends, ask them what they do, i bet they have a normal fwd jap* saloon, fitted with winter tyres.
*other nations make cars too.

Depends what you want it to do in the main.

I've had a CC, 2 Mazda 6s, an Octavia vRS and now an Arteon.

All for 3 years from new as a company car and tbh none put a foot wrong over 60 - 90k miles.

The Mazdas were great to drive but soul less and just about built well enough. The dash and interior is very tacky with different materials and plastics - not a patch on a VW group car.

CC was lovely tbh and the Octavia being the only petrol one was very nippy in comparison and also a great car.

Also had a 3 week old Mondeo in 2010. It lasted a day before the centre consul fell to bits and the front suspension clunked. Got the 2nd Mazda 6 shortly after that test drive.

Basically I wouldn't rule out brands just because you had one bad experience. If I was buying a car for myself and wanted to spend money wisely I'd be getting a petrol Octavia vRS.

If I was buying and had the money I'd have a BMW.

Somewhere in the middle would be a Volvo, although for some irrational reason not Audi. great cars, just find them all bland (outside of the RS models)

What sort of parts failures you having on your passat cc at what age that has put you off all German cars.

I've got some sympathy for the OP here having disposed of my Passat a few months back. Between 45k and selling it at 100k it never managed 6 months without an unscheduled visit to the garage. Off top of head... Glow plug issues, ABS sensors (twice), fuel gauge fault (twice), airbag fault, suspension work (and that's definitely not all of it). It was a very nice car but it gave me more aggro and unexpected cost in just under four years than the previous Ford had in eight years.

I was reconciling myself to just toughing out the regular repairs when Mrs gd bought a mad large tent and we traded it for an SMax for more space.

For the OP I don't know what age you're looking at but I do take the view that if you're looking at the interior you're doing it wrong!

You don't say whether you are a car as white goods person, a nice to drive person or want to impress yourself and neighbours when you look at the outside type.

If it's a comfy box attitude then there's plenty in the mid tier manufacturers... Avensis, Mazda 6, i40, Optima, Mondeo, Insignia that would be functional.

If you want it to be nice inside and out I reckon your Volvo fans might be on the money if you want to stick to
FWD.

I am guessing you ought to avoid Alfa's 😂

The RWD/FWD point is interesting because going uphill there will be weight transfer to the rear from the gradient aiding traction, IF I've got my physics right. Hence why the FWD drive cars went up backwards not forwards.

RWD is out of the equation due to the steep hill I live on being impassable in snowy or icy weather.

Makes you wonder how all those Europeans manage with their BMWs, Audis and Mercs when on their winter holidays in the alps.....

Oh yeah... Winter tyres...!

Pug 508? A class saloon? 1 series saloon (not sure if that's a thing).

Insignia, camry are probably great options for this too

I totally +1 winter tyres, or at least really good allseasons like a crossclimate. But everyone saying "rwd cars can do snow with winter tyres", they're still not as good as fwd with winter tyres. Or AWD of course.

And of course it's not just snow, in fact snow's easy. That horrible laminate refrozen ice that the UK loves to hit you with, that's not so easy.

Or, I guess to put it another way, if winter conditions worried me, I wouldn't get a car that's less good at winter conditions then rely on tyres to make it good. I'd get a car that's alright in winter conditions, and use tyres to make it awesome.

Thanks to all.

@trailrat I've had the fan and motor powering it seize (£690 to replace) so no air con or windscreen clearing, the electronic handbrake failed, a series of problems with the outer housing underneath the car which caused panels to drop down and become damaged, key failures. I bought it at 1 year old and it's now 5.

Comfort / nice to drive is my main priority. Our eldest is heading off to uni next week leaving one (6 ft 2") 15 year old. I'm the same height so a bit of headroom is essential.

I have had two 3 series previously with winter tyres fitted. My concerns about RWD are based on real experience. The hill I live on is STEEP. 2nd gear in the CC to get up it in the dry. My wife had an E class for a few years which had to stay in the drive in bad weather as well.

I have looked at an XE, and a giulia. Looked around for a 3 series touring x drive but nothing to fit the bill. I cover big mileage so strip the value out of cars very quickly and I am loathe to spend over £20k on a car knowing 4 years later I will have put over 100k miles on it and it will have depreciated shockingly.

RWD is out of the equation due to the steep hill I live on being impassable in snow

You do know this is God's way of telling you to stay at home and build a snowman, right?

The hill I live on is STEEP. 2nd gear in the CC to get up it in the dry. My wife had an E class for a few years which had to stay in the drive in bad weather as well.

If it really is that steep, stuff taking an expensive car up or down it in snow.

As someone who's commute used to include a 1km long, 200m high climb up a Highland mountain on a single track road, you just get winter tyres and a few days a year walk. The best vehicle in the snow was our old Yaris on full (narrow) snow tyres - it weighed very little and so was easy to get up hill or indeed slow down. For the big cars we have just always run all season tyres.
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Comfort = Volvo. I could live in the the front seat of my old one.

Nice to drive? Do you mean entertaining or simple/easy. Volvo is in no way entertaining, BMW and Ford better suspension set up for driver feedback.

If your smashing the miles on and want value....

Id just get a mid to high spec 1-2 year old low miles focus and be done.

Comparitively peanuts to change when you wear it out , yes they will depreciate but they don't come with the big initial cost or the repair bills the luxobarges come with.

If things are still the same there is a point in the range where the seat spec changes and they are infjnately nicer places to spend time than the poverty spec models.

Of course I view cars as tools and not as status symbols so YMMV

In the spirit of recommending what you have... Titanium spec Smax.

Toys, comfort, boot space and headroom. Have driven overnight for 6 hours down to Cornwall and have got out feeling fresh(ish). Doing it in previous cars left me destroyed.

Volvo now do a car subscription thing. If you want nice cars, do lots of miles, don't want to deal with deprecation etc it might be worth a look? Think it includes all servicing and insurance too.

Volvos are generally comfy and do 4 wheel drive which is nice in the bad weather.

Otherwise, maybe a Subaru Legacy?

Winter tyres. Spend good money. I liked Nokian when I lived in Finland.

Over there I had an Audi A3, Toyota corolla estate, Merc e class estate, Volvo V50, Volvo V70, Hyundai ix35 and Toyota Hilux. Friends tended to have Toyota, Volvo or German cars. Tyres were usually spiked for smaller cars (e.g. corolla), and winter (unspiked) as they got larger (e.g. ix35, Merc e class). It's a flat country, but with many granite lumps of hills. Those are usually steep and never cleared!

The only car o was uncomfortable driving was the hyundai. It was relatively short (square) and would slide easily. The Hilux was the best. The corolla was dependable and coped really well due it being quite light and a manual.

Op, why not get a Jimmy? Or defender?

The subscription thingy sounds interesting.

Thanks to all. Responses have helped me focus my thinking on this a bit more.

Alfa Giulia - bloody lovely 🙂

Sounds like OP needs any car with winters , a sledge to get to said car in the morning and some crampons to get home for tea.

Kia Optima? Peugeot 508 Fastback.

Fancy the Giulia but again RWD.

Spotted a 2018 S60 R Design D4 with a lot of bells and whistles on it. 21k miles. Automatic so my wife will at last be able to drive one of my cars!

Test drive booked for next week.

Kia?

Well speced and comfy?

Toyota avensis also?

Seriously, how many snowy day’s a year do you actually have? Even if you have to walk up the hill a couple of days a year does it really warrant selecting a car purely on the basis you MIGHT get it up a snowy incline a couple of times a year if you even see snow that year?

Depends doesn’t it. If I can’t get to work then it potentially shuts an airport and people get upset when they can’t go on holiday or travel to their meetings.

In my previous job no one cared if I was there or not, everything carried on.

My considerations of vehicle do include whether they will get me to work in bad weather. I’ve got snow chains and winter tyres.

Also not all FWD cats work in the snow, a mate had a C or S Max last time it snowed and it was woeful.

RWD is out of the equation due to the steep hill I live on being impassable in snowy or icy weather.

FFS

The drive of the vehicle has nothing to do with it, it's down to the tyres. I have had 3 series (pre-Xdrive) with winter tyres and had no issues getting about. The only thing that stopped me around the pennines is if the snow was too deep and ground clearance became an issue.

Secondly, the drive of a car only helps you move forward, it doesn't help you stop in the snow/ice.

You said no VAG, but then narrowed it to German marques. How about a Skoda Superb 4WD with winter tyres? Superbly comfortable long distance car, my experience with the previous model over four years was that it was also very reliable and well equipped.

"Secondly, the drive of a car only helps you move forward, it doesn’t help you stop in the snow/ice."

+++++
My gateway is testament to this! Muppets thinking a Landrover will get their little dahlings to the school up the hill, just 800 ft up in the Surrey Alps. It'll get them there, but getting down again is a different matter! Meanwhile my daughter, in her Nokian Wetherproof equipped Up! has no problems up or down....
An outback on winters just takes the piss!

Basically I wouldn’t rule out brands just because you had one bad experience. If I was buying a car for myself and wanted to spend money wisely I’d be getting a petrol Octavia vRS.

Suspension/tyre combo is too firm for mile munching imo. I'm looking to replace mine for that reason. Oh and the lack of soundproofing, the tyre roar gets tiresome on long journeys.

Other than that, great car, just not ideal for this brief.

Well done team.
This year's first winter tyre argument thread in the first week of September.
I think that is a new record.
Let's see if we can beat it again next year!

This year’s first winter tyre argument

What argument, everyone so far is basically educating the OP on his uneducated statement.

What argument, everyone so far is basically educating the OP on his uneducated statement

Oh the irony! You don't live where I live. I have already referred to the fact that I ran winter tyres for two winters on a 3 series with little real advantage.

Don't let your ignorance of my circumstances and experience stop you from calling me uneducated though.