Non compete clauses

Don't think they can actually stop you. They can put you on gardening leave though.

And if they find that you've actually taken data/company secrets to the new job, both you and your new employer are royally shafted.

If you're going to a customer or supplier, there may be additional contractual limitations. e.g. i can't go to a supplier and start working on projects for my current employer for a certain period of time And my employer isn't allowed to poach supplier staff without similar clauses. Though it does happen, both ways.

I've done a couple of moves like this over the years, never had an issue.

I'm now a senior keeper of secrets, so if i hand my notice in (6 months now) i'll be out of the office in about 20 minutes, probably on full pay for 6 months.

One of our directors did this last year. Handed in their notice at 9 am, gone by 9:10, press release by lunchtime. There was then a load of horse trading between new and current employer so they didn't have to sit at home for 6 months.

Its something where you need expert advice on the specific contract details.
Some will be nonsense and thrown out as unreasonable but others will be enforceable.

Its pretty rare they would end up in court but they can and more likely the hiring company would chose to walk away instead rather than deal with mess.

Colleague (automotive embedded software) was threatened after he said he was moving to a competitor. They wanted him to be unemployed for 6 months. He said get stuffed (politely). They made him sign some disclaimer thing and he moved without any break.

If their IP is that valuable, surely they'd put you on gardening leave?

I studied employment law many years ago, I vaguely recall these things are very difficult to enforce unless the company can show you know specific trade secrets. Most cases this seems to be customer/client contact lists, pricing details and so on.

<p>Had a colleague fall foul of one at a previous job.  One area you need proper expert advice as not all non completes are enforceable. </p><p>There’s been similar threads on Pistonheads where “experts” have made judgement only to be corrected by known experts in this subject .</p>

Thanks all, some careful reading required.
I don’t have any technical IP, but as I’m in a customer facing, sales type role I do have a lot of contacts and relationships built up as well as knowledge of commercials.

Not looking to move to a competitor, more a current customer who I guess might choose to take business elsewhere in the mid- long term.

Gardening leave is I think mentioned in my contract I think, (3months notice) but that would be best case scenario bearing in mind the current season (assuming the sun comes out!).

Another question would be which “expert” should I be asking for advice??

There’s been similar threads on Pistonheads where “experts” have made judgement only to be corrected by known experts in this subject

It's all pretty subjective, you'll only find out if it really is enforceable when it ends up in court. The role would have to be very senior, or the company very petty to bother going that far....

Your union will have free legal advice 🙂

agree - get advice. They are legal and enforceable, but in general cannot be wider than they need to be in time or extent which may depend on your role / seniority.

If they are, they need to compensate you beyond 'having previously been employed by us'

Extreme case to make the point - as a principle, no courts would support a restriction of you working in the industry you know for 5 years after leaving a company. But if they paid you £1M a year to not compete with them...... that would be different.

assuming you do not have one an employment lawyer.  usually unenforceable but occasionally are

So I’ve been involved on the employer side of the coin once or twice. I absolutely am not a legal expert. However, my takeaway from my experiences is that the employer is unlikely be be successful if suing their employee. (In my incomplete experience, European law seems for several years to have been moving away for, the company and towards the employee. There was a critical European law case where a former senior Ford manager took Ford to court for trying to stop him working - since the experience he had gained in his job with Ford was really his only or main employable skill).

However, what I wanted to say is that an employer can make life very complicated and difficult if they are willing to go to court. Even if the employer is not confident that they will win, they could make life a total PITA for the employee. So knowing your current/ex employer and their likelihood of going to court is probably a key question imo.

Isn't it a restriction of practice thus unenforceable legally?

My role is very specialised and not many companies do the work I do. Any non-compete clause would mean I cannot work within my sector.

Another question would be which “expert” should I be asking for advice??

Citizens advice would be a starting point if you dont have a union. If you belong to a professional body they might also be able to advise.
Other than that its an lawyer who specialises in employment law.

If you’re in a sufficiently senior and strategic role, then six months gardening leave is the norm. That’s paid to do no work and all company resources returned immediately. As for joining the new company, you take your expertise in the field not the previous company secrets.

There is a level of professionalism here. I work in a field that obviously has much confidential information. Going to another company does not mean you spill the beans. In fact, it would be frowned upon by the new employer. Instead one can point people in the correct direction by reference to public information (papers, patents, presentations). That is part of the fun, digging up the history information. The only ethical exception is if there was a patient safety concern, but that information would likely be public anyway!

If you were in a sales position with a full set of clients, I would presume to only take your reputation with you. Clients may choose to follow, but I don’t think you can be chasing them. But that is not my field.

We’ve had a few cases where a past company has gone to law. After six months it’s all done anyway.

Isn’t it a restriction of practice thus unenforceable legally?

Depends if you are being compensated for that restriction, how long, etc.

Genuinely, every with contract I've ever signed has had this bit scribbled out in biro with my signature and date next to the signature, and I have never heard anything back from HR. It's not that I think I will ever create something useful in that sense but the wording is so broad that I just don't accept it.

Edit: the point being that HR don't check all the paperwork they get back. No idea if it is legally binding but I'd love to see company try to enforce a contract term that I have specifically rejected and the company have subsequently accepted the paperwork.

<p>If you have any kind of stock or options watch out for bad leaver clauses. The other is going quiet on you so you exercise period lapses.<br /><br />Outside of that little that most do unless you have some crazy IP like the recipe for Coke or Google’s algorithm that is public via patent. We have as standard, never enforced. </p><p>Laughable to think customer lists and pricing would be covered by this. If that is a co’s only moat they are in trouble.  <br /><br />As recommended above speak to a pro. Likely if you are senior enough to have this in your contract you can afford an hour of legal advice. </p>

I have never heard of 6 months gardening leave.  I've  never even heard of such a long notice period, so I guess that would need to be normal at board level?

Likely if you are senior enough to have this in your contract you can afford an hour of legal advice.

Not always as it can be someone downloading a sample contract or just someone chancing it.
I vaguely remember a case (I think reported in a newspapers help section) where a takeaway had a clause saying you couldnt work for any similar business within x miles of it. Needless to say in that case the experts suggested the right response was to tell them to do one.

In this case there is also the additional complication the two companies may have something in their contract about the client poaching staff.
Flip side is sometimes companies would be happy getting an ex worker (assuming they left on friendly terms) working for a client. Can mean extra business.

Anything at executive level. I went from three months (continuity management) to six months (know too much). Board level is normally deemed share price sensitive and announced publicly- see AZ today for example.

By contrast, in the US it’s two weeks!

I have never heard of 6 months gardening leave.

I had over 7 months once.  That was an outfit that tried to make me redundant and mucked up the process so badly it was laughable.  7 months at home fully paid then 6 months salary.

Unusual case tho

Flying Ox - HR probably knew it was bullshine

I have never heard of 6 months gardening leave.  I’ve  never even heard of such a long notice period, so I guess that would need to be normal at board level?

Or you've never been a keeper of secrets, so you wouldn't really need to know?

Outside of board level there are probably only 500 of us in a company of 40000+.

Edit:-

I went from three months (continuity management) to six months (know too much).

Exactly this ^^^ It's the same shift i made 3 years ago.

So re-read the whole document, rather than relying on my memory from last year when it was added to my contract.

It’s definitely angled at stopping a simple move to a competitor to carry on with your same clients, which seems OK to me- that could directly harm the business.

A potential move to a current customer, to which we currently provide a service but by no means rely on, seems to be OK. There is an example of a move detailed to show roughly where the restriction ends, just not the exact example of the move I am thinking of.

In response to the seniority comments, I report to the MD, in a small (45 employees) business. I’m one of 3 people at my level/ job type. By no means board level or share holding! I have 3 months notice, mostly from a business continuity perspective I guess. Gardening leave can be used to reduce the non-compete according to the document. I wouldn’t expect it.

This would be the first time I’ve changed jobs with this type of contract, hence the doubt and need to double (triple) check.

I was in financial services and know of a case where the employee was held to 12 months between jobs.  But it turned out that at some earlier date he had insisted on 12 months notice in his contract of employment - a clause the employer was happy to enforce when he quit!!

I have a vague memory that legal precedent has established 12 months as the reasonable maximum of a shut out.  Your new employer has taken you on for your knowledge but I don’t suppose they are going to expect a dump of detailed commercially sensitive information.