No TT thread?

I really thought Wout was going to edge it there

😜

I used to watch it and even visited the island for the event. But in the light of everything going on in the world, mass shootings, wars, people being stabbed to death left and right, I now wonder if this event cheapens life. For what ?, a bit of silverware for the mantelpiece.

Three dead thus far.

Must admit I'm normally of the view that people doing dangerous things i.e. motorsports know the risks.

Not really followed it this year but have seen in the news that 3 competitors have died already this year.

My initial thoughts are that's a very high number and I do wonder if the running of it needs to be reviewed.

Goes against my normal views and I know the people died doing what they enjoyed, which is surely a better way to go than in some old people's home just fading away. But still.

Been watching coverage on my lunchbreak - always been a fan of the concept but never really watched it. Holy cow, I had no idea how on the limit they are, those margins are razor-thin - I'm sure people have been saying it's too fast for decades, but as long as people WANT to do it, fair play. Wish they could make it safer, but then it wouldn't be what it is.

Hickman is on it....

Dunlop is trying very hard ....

Wish they could make it safer, but then it wouldn’t be what it is.

The bikes are too fast essentially. The speeds those bikes are capable of now to me, have kind of outgrown the venue in a way.
They belong on a track with run out and gravel traps.

I've watched bits on YouTube. I mean, it has to be one of the most committing, high-consequence things to do out there.
It is utterly mental.

Undoubtedly incredible to watch though.

How do you go about watching it live....?

Would love to see it for real at some point. Not a motorbike.

Guessing all of the accommodation is booked out.

Camping? Aires?

As I understand it the course covers about half the island. Could you camp and ride your analogue bike to spectate?

Motorcycle racing is dangerous, end of. Even in circuit racing too many have died so there's not really an easy way to make it safer. I don't think there is an answer so people will keep doing it for as long as they have the passion and support.

I was amazed to see McGuiness was still racing. Yes it's bonkers, no one should be riding a modern bike on such dangerous roads, etc etc. but crikey it's a brilliant watch.

As ever it's sad that riders lose their lives but other than stopping the event completely it's hard to know how the risk could be mitigated.

I would be grateful if anyone can point me to coverage of the re-scheduled sidecar 1 race. I can't find it anywhere.

I heartily approve of the TT. Is this not real life. It is the same as solo climbing or the sort of thing Macaskil does. Rather than worry about or even moan about people risking lives we should be encouraging it. Life isn't that important overall. In fact our over emphasis on it is why the world is in the state it is. People chose to take these risks and the consequences affect them only. Family etc are part of "them".
The world has become too risk adverse.

TT now have live coverage. It is a one off payment (£15) and has been worth every penny.

TT live

I know the arguments about safety and how fast they are going, but this is riders wanting to do this. They know the risks and yet still want to do it. There is a whole circuit of RR races it is just that the TT is the biggest and we focus our ire on that. For a cycling context look at going downhill on the road in the mountains: zero run off, perilous drops little or no protection. Forget about pro races, and look at the amount of amateurs doing it. I still do it and overtake cars and motorbikes on the way down because I love it. I stopped riding the motorbike, but still doing stupid things on a road bike. The only difference for me was that on the motorbike the interface with other road users was the biggest danger, but it was less so on the road bike. See, it makes no sense.

The only thing is you don’t have to watch or support it, but it does bring a lot to those that want to do it and are good at it. At least they are not on the same machines on the road with you and the kids?

As I understand it the course covers about half the island. Could you camp and ride your analogue bike to spectate?

Yes, many many many do. It's a lovely way to see an amazing spectacle.

Watching the hilights on itv4. Compelling racing but silly high stakes. Whilst people choose the risks, the truth is there is much discounting here “it won’t be me”. The sidecar accident is truly tragic, with the wrong rider initially being listed as dead and the second as critical.

Families may be “expecting the worst”, but as one of those children who’s life was hit by such tragedy, I can assure you the effects are lifelong.

A friend has just booked her accommodation for next year. If you want to go and see it live, best get on it now.

I've not been for a while, but I've visited the island for the TT and and the Manx GP.  I also went to the Northwest 200 road races in NI for a few years in the early 2000s.

As a spectator it's incredible. If you watch BSB or similar you're sat a long way back from the track. At the TT you can be sat on a dry stone wall dangling your legs close enough to almost touch the bikes passing you at nearly 200mph.

The atmosphere on the Island is incredible too, it's an international motorcycling festival. People flock there from all of the world, many of them incredulous that such a spectacle is still allowed to take place in the modern world. ISTR that the population of the island nearly doubles on TT week. My wife has family on the island so we have visited a lot. It's certainly a much quieter place outside of the TT!

Although it's probably ten years old or so now, a really good insight into the racer's mind sets is the documentary film 'TT closer to the edge'.

Another, about the Irish road racing scene, narrated by Liam Neeson is 'Road'.  Both worth a watch to get some inkling of what makes the racers tick.

NEver underestimate the desire of the racer to compete at this place. When i got into motorbike racing it was my dream, my goal and my focus....

Sadly (or happily) i was never good enough to race the Manx/TT, i didn't get the required licences before money ran out and didn't arguably have the ability to do so... but the desire is still there, the will to be fast... the body disagrees 😀

Supersport race has been pick of the bunch so far this week - close at the top and MD back to his outrageously fast best. He looked to be leaving no margin at all in places, it was bonkers. Nice to see Davey Todd get a result as well in the stockers, he was on it at the NW200 from what I saw, generally seems to be on the up within road racing. Hicky just seems to be cruising around on the big bikes in an almost untouchable fashion.

I know the arguments about safety and how fast they are going, but this is riders wanting to do this. They know the risks and yet still want to do it.

We hear about the deaths but how many others get injured and take up NHS money to be put back together afterwards. Or are they all privately insured and the money gets paid back?

That's a Devil's advocate question (I was enthralled by 'Closer to the Edge' as much as any other sports fan) but NZ is about to ban smoking full stop, anyone 14 today will not be able to ever legally buy cigarettes, because by the time they reach 21 or whatever the age is in NZ then they will be outlawed. "But they know the risks and still want to do it"

We hear about the deaths but how many others get injured and take up NHS money to be put back together afterwards. Or are they all privately insured and the money gets paid back?

NOt sure that argument holds any water, otherwise where do we draw the line, sunday league football, broken legs, ACLs, hands, feet.... Using your logic we could potentially ban that for the same reason ?

Bet the Tt causes less money drain on the nhs than rugby...

We hear about the deaths but how many others get injured and take up NHS money to be put back together afterwards. Or are they all privately insured and the money gets paid back?

You can include pretty much any sport in that argument, and certainly mountain biking.

Bit old now but “That near death thing” is a very good read about the TT and the rider’s mindsets, warts and all.

Yes, we could. We could argue the health and fitness benefits vs what would I think be a very low major injury rate and so on but it's all just different balance points on the equilibrium there. My point's more about why do we protect people from their own choices in one area and not others (and for avoidance of doubt, I love the TT and also love sunday league)

Does anyone know the injury rate? I haven't got time to google but found one article from 1991 which said there were 16 hospitalisations in 1991, of which 2 were deaths. So maybe a 1:8 or 1:10 ratio?  25-30 crashes this year requiring hospitalisation of some degree?

Bet the Tt causes less money drain on the nhs than rugby…

I think you will find that mountain biking is high up there on the sports cost £ to the NHS, much more so than the cost of the TT.

Whilst people choose the risks, the truth is there is much discounting here “it won’t be me”

I disagree. I think they all know it could be them, but to ride at the speeds they do you have to be 100% in belief in your abilities. The 2nd you start doubting your ability and thinking you may crash then thats when you will crash. Thats the same for any extreme sport. Unfortunately there has been at least 1 fatality so far this year, but the guy died doing what he loved.

I have a mate on the IoM who used to be in their fire service and has picked bodies/bits of bodies off the road and fields around the circuit. He rides bikes himself and is supporting a sidecar pit crew. He has seen it from both sides and still thinks its the best thing in the world.

I was out there last autumn and drove around the circuit. What amazed me more than anything was the sheer time it would take to learn the corners, but not only that the bumps and undulations as it certainly is not a smooth manicured racing circuit.

There is some lovely scenery and push bike riding particularly around the 'mountain' section. I am not sure if there are any campsites within the north bit of the circuit ie Sulby Reservoir area but thats roughly where I would be looking.

Just imagine trying to hit 130mph there.... just for 1 minute.... holding it at 130..... Then imagine you have to AVERAGE that for a whole lap... it's completely and utterly remarkable !!!

I'm on the Iom at the moment, been here since Saturday - my 6th tt, all on mtb and camping.

I love it, the atmosphere and excitement are like nothing else.

We mtb when there's no racing (loads of great riding). Bikes are free on the ferry, just book as a foot passenger.

Yes the tt is dangerous, but should it be stopped, no it shouldn't. The riders know the risk.

I'm a firm believer that F1 sorted out it's fatality rate not for the drivers' benefit but to makes its administration and viewing more palatable. Finding young men willing to put themselves in position where killing themselves is a real risk is still easy enough - getting millions of people to tune in and watch them do it live on TV is a harder ask. Clearly the fans and organisers of the TT are wired differently.

I'm not quite sure what it must be like organising an event where statistics say it is almost certain one or more people will die. Someone in the organisation must have the annual job of purchasing body bags. TBH honest I'd rather be a rider risking my own life than an organiser organising an event that inevitably with take another's (even if those involved know the risk).

If you think the bikes are too fast then catch up on some of the archive film from the very early days - gravel roads and little in the way of suspension or brakes - still very fast laps. The races used to carry on in heavy rain until fairly recently too, it was only very thick fog that stopped them. If you add up the practice and racing miles compared to short circuit racing then injuries per mile compare very favourably.
I’ve just broken my ankle walking the dogs, I’ve cost the NHS money, should I be stopped from dog walking?
Paid my £15 though for live TT coverage, feet up, brilliant!
And Issue 143 has just arrived - my day sorted..

NEver underestimate the desire of the racer to compete at this place.

To illustrate Weeksy's point, I was in the crowd at Portrush in 2008 for the NW200 when Michael Dunlop won the 250cc race, just a few days after his dad was killed in practice at the circuit.  It was the most emotional sporting event I have ever witnessed. He collapsed crying on the finish line and there was barely a dry eye around the whole circuit.  If seeing your father die racing, days before you are due to race doesn't stop you, absolutely nothing on earth will.  As well as his dad, he has since lost his brother and of course his legendary uncle Joey.  To say people like Michael Dunlop downplay or underestimate the risks is nonsense.  And yet they still do it.  In some ways it's difficult to comprehend but I am in awe of the courage it takes to race on a road circuit.

If seeing your father die racing, days before you are due to race doesn’t stop you, absolutely nothing on earth will. As well as his dad, he has since lost his brother and of course his legendary uncle Joey. To say people like Michael Dunlop downplay or underestimate the risks is nonsense. And yet they still do it. In some ways it’s difficult to comprehend but I am in awe of the courage it takes to race on a road circuit.

absolutely nothing on earth will- apart from not having a race to enter obviously....

Fair play to him - if unkind you could worry about his mental health. If kind you could praise his obsession (in a positive way) and dedication. But just because these people exist is it right and proper to give them an outlet? Take it to the next level - should the owner of a bridge known for suicides provide a jumping platform and booking form to facilitate their decision?

Also, re costs to the NHS.  Most of the injured racers (and visitors) are treated on the island.  Unsurprisingly Noble hospital in Douglas is pretty expert at dealing with motorcycle racing related trauma.  The IoM is not part of the UK and the Manx NHS is separate from the UK NHS.   If the Manx government and voters are happy for the TT to go ahead, with the costs associated with it, then that's for them to decide.  The TT brings an enormous economic boost to the island.  I'm sure this more than offsets any extra cost to the Manx NHS.

Also, there are loads of racing related charities and organisations which provide funds for hospitals, air ambulances or volunteers such as the Rob Vine fund and Manx Roadracing Medical Services.  Most of the Doctors and Paramedics around the course are volunteers and their medical equipment is paid for by charities.

But just because these people exist is it right and proper to give them an outlet? Take it to the next level – should the owner of a bridge known for suicides provide a jumping platform and booking form to facilitate their decision?

There is quite clearly a difference between a sporting event, however risky and deliberately ending your life don't you think?  Looking at it another way, should we give an outlet to ANYONE who wants to participate in a sport with a real risk of injury or death?  Mountain biking for example?

should the owner of a bridge known for suicides provide a jumping platform and booking form to facilitate their decision?

should the owner of a hillside known for challenging cheeky mtb trails set up an official trail network, add a carpark and cafe, provide an uplift so people can get more laps in, and charge people for the priviledge?

should the owner of a hillside known for challenging cheeky mtb trails set up an official trail network, add a carpark and cafe, provide an uplift so people can get more laps in, and charge people for the priviledge?

HEck yes.... where is it 🙂

Also, re costs to the NHS. Most of the injured racers (and visitors) are treated on the island. Unsurprisingly Noble hospital in Douglas is pretty expert at dealing with motorcycle racing related trauma. The IoM is not part of the UK and the Manx NHS is separate from the UK NHS. If the Manx government and voters are happy for the TT to go ahead, with the costs associated with it, then that’s for them to decide. The TT brings an enormous economic boost to the island. I’m sure this more than offsets any extra cost to the Manx NHS.

I am not entirely sure this is the case - the major trauma (tends to be the case when you come off a bike 100mph +) gets flown straight to Liverpool. I know there had been talks about changing that arrangement so that all trauma had to be dealt with on the Island. That would have potentially stopped the TT happening, obviously some arrangement was kept in place. Mrs FD may well go over for the TT next year to help with the Trauma surgery they do do on the island in race fortnight

Plus outside of bike racing there are many agreements where IoM residence have their treatments in England.

If people fancy a less busy TT there is the classic TT which happens later in the year.

I'm just back and had a fantastic time. Managed to catch Saturday and Mondays racing. The Gooseneck, Creg na baa, parliament Square and at the school in Ramsey, walked the pits. All offered different experiences. Watched the racing on the telly yesterday. The big bonus for me was riding the circuit on the motorcycle, puts the speeds and laps on perspective, truly amazing. Just soaking up the atmosphere on the place is pretty special too,it's like the worlds biggest bike show.

As for the should it go ahead question, well I'm not qualified to answer and neither I'll bet is anyone else on this thread so far. I will say that I think it may slowly fade away all the same, some of the racers and the spectators and fans are mostly of a certain age group. Not that many young folk about and I'd say this was true for motorcycling in general.

Because there is a difference between a sporting event, however risky and deliberately ending your life don’t you think?

That's why I said next level.

Looking at it another way, should we give an outlet to ANYONE who wants to participate in a sport with a real risk of injury or death? Mountain biking for example?

should the owner of a hillside known for challenging cheeky mtb trails set up an official trail network, add a carpark and cafe, provide an uplift so people can get more laps in, and charge people for the priviledge?

True, I get it - to a point. I guess there is something in there about the rate/likelihood of death. I know there are a lot more riders at the TT in any one year than most would imagine but what's the participant/death rate of the event? And how would that compare to the BPW participant/death rate? There is a sane cut off for most people - I suppose where we differ is what that cut off is.

Many years ago as a reckless 20 year old I was iceclimbing and watched a fellow ice climber fall to their death. I was half a mile away I guess, still on the walk in, and I could see from top to bottom of the face from where I was stood. I can still see his yellow jacketed body falling 800 odd feet, bouncing off rocks. Later that afternoon I carried on my own climbing. It was just how it was.

But my ice climbing was just there - and in the right conditions still is. No one has facilitated it. There is no crowd cheering you on. There is no trophy to be won. To me there is a difference between a high risk venture that you almost 'invent' for yourself and take on in virtual solitude and one that someone conceives and facilitates for you and gives you a prize and adulation to aim for. It's not the risk takers role in super high risk activities I question but the facilitators (when there is one) who do so in a risk free position. Especially when there is financial gain (of an individual or community) in encouraging the person predisposed to taking risk to do so.

How do you go about watching it live….?

Would love to see it for real at some point. Not a motorbike.

Guessing all of the accommodation is booked out.

Camping? Aires?

As I understand it the course covers about half the island. Could you camp and ride your analogue bike to spectate?

We've been over to watch the Classic/Manx TT a few times, and if you're a motorsport fan I highly recommend it.

Easy to do, and great by bicycle.
Cycling over is cheap on the ferry and it gives you the ability to visit different parts of the circuit on different days. You just need to work out where you want to be before the roads are closed and go from there.

We've just bivied out and wildcamped on the island, but plenty of campsites if you want to be a bit more civilised.
The classic/manx is a bit more relaxed and it'll be easier to find places as the main TT can get booked up months in advance.

Also the island is a great place on its own without the TT.
Between the racing theres plenty to see and do for a week.

@convert an interesting perspective re risk in a solo activity versus an organised event.  In either case, the appetite for risk is ultimately down to the participant.  I don't think there is any manipulation, encouragement or coercion by the organisers in motorcycle roadracing.  The racers do not need any external motivation to do what they do, that is just the way their heads are wired. And they are certainly not in it for the money.  The vast majority of TT racers pay to compete and even the top handful make peanuts compared to other sports.

You could argue that at least in an organised setting (whatever the risky activity) there are more likely to be procedures and medical care in place to reduce risk and maximise good outcomes in the event of an accident, than a solo activity in the back of beyond?

Convert - I think road racing has always been pretty much under the radar. Its only the last few years that the TT has become a 'spectacle' in that way and therefore has attracted sponsorship etc.

As I said above a mate is supporting a side car team, not for money (he gets nothing) but just because he wants to help where he can and enable others to experience that exhilaration and be part of making it happen.

It is odd thought that F1 plays on the fact that it is a 'dangerous' sport. The reality is that these days it isnt. But thats how they try and sell it.

People enjoy doing stuff where death is a possible side effect. People enjoy watching things that are dangerous.

The classic/manx is a bit more relaxed and it’ll be easier to find places as the main TT can get booked up months in advance.

Was there working for a while during and after the '94 Grand Prix which was great fun to watch and the island wasn't as crowded as during the TT. Still sociable in the hotels and bars. Also did many laps of the circuit in a variety of cars which only added to the respect for the riders.

Also did many laps of the circuit in a variety of cars which only added to the respect for the riders.

Unfortunately now the roads are quite busy at anytime, so its difficult to get a clear run on the sections that are not speed restricted.

I had a zip round in a BMW Z4 3.0 last year. The fastest I managed to get to was about 125mph before catching traffic just passed The Bungalow. That was with a passenger who knew the roads like the back of his hand, some of those bends have multiple apex and bumps that will punish you massively !

It is busy all year round now with some lovely bikes, and more than its fair share of supercars taking advantage of the unrestricted areas.

Classic STW forum, start a thread about the IOM TT and the OP mentions the racing, devolves into debate over whether it should be a thing or not.

Yes it should, if you don't like it sod off, nobody has a gun to your head marching you out to the start line.

Does it cost the NHS money to fix up injured racers? Probably, but the IOM makes that back probably 100 fold for hosting the event in the first place. Remember the next time a cyclist has to be airlifted off the side of a hill that he needs to present a valid credit card and explain why he wasn't wearing armour and full face helmet for "such a dangerous pastime, what's that going to cost the NHS"

That's better.......racing has been belter this year. Sad to see McGuiness so far down in the rankings (I haven't caught up completely so he might have pulled a 140mph lap last night and I just haven't seen it yet)

The battle between Dunlop and Harrison in the Supersport was nailbiting and down to tenths of a second at one point.

I'm hoping to go next year, as a spectator, if I can get the bike license sorted out and enough miles under my belt to feel confident enough, seems weird to go in a car. The commitment of these riders is amazing to watch

Sad to see McGuiness so far down in the rankings (I haven’t caught up completely so he might have pulled a 140mph lap last night and I just haven’t seen it yet)

I guess pre COVID he was still up there with the best. 3 years away and now 50 it is not surprising he is struggling. It must be physically very demanding, and he doesnt look like a fit 50yr old athlete + the mental side of it must get harder as you get older. I certainly think more about my own mortality as I am approaching 50 !

I hope he gets a podium and calls it a day

Classic is an excellent week.

It's insane how much you need to memorise and look out for.

To say people like Michael Dunlop downplay or underestimate the risks is nonsense.

They don't downplay the risks to themselves (an ability toot think about them is essential), but they discount the future implications to their families. I'm a big fan and know that nothing will stop racers racing, it's why they are successful in the first place!

How did you react when Alison Hargreaves died on K2 pursuing her dream? And like the Dunlops, there is continued family tragedy on her story too.

True, I get it – to a point. I guess there is something in there about the rate/likelihood of death. I know there are a lot more riders at the TT in any one year than most would imagine but what’s the participant/death rate of the event? And how would that compare to the BPW participant/death rate? There is a sane cut off for most people – I suppose where we differ is what that cut off is.

Like i said, I'm not against it, I am in awe of it (just wondering how they can ride bikes when their balls are that big). But at the risk of upsetting Darthpunk further, the point is that all pastimes have a risk-reward ratio, and sunday league or dog walking have the health benefits to potential serious injury balance firmly on the benefits side, so society deems them ok (NHS has said time and again that they support eg: MTBing)

IOM TT - I don't know how you calculate the overall (societal) cost - benefit ratio, tourism and industry vs costs of treatments and so on. It is I suspect very different on the balance, but still deemed acceptable.Which is fine, I'm not saying to stop it, just wondering in a Devil's advocate way where the line is for 'they know the risks, let them get on with it'.  If there were 30 deaths a year, would it still be OK? 300?

On the subject of riders being killed.

Too many times its being romanticized, but these are people, with families, children and the loss must still be a terrible burden.

We dont here the same said for cyclists killed on roads and in traffic. No 'They died doing something they loved' doesn't really cut it does it.

Guessing all of the accommodation is booked out.

Camping?

There is camping obviously, but the islanders themselves put up visitors by renting out their kids or spare bedrooms to them.

Plus its a set fee so theres no profiteering. I got 2 nights in a family home in port of St Mary, and i think it was a tenner per night.

Those kids bunkbeds are bloody short though 😆

Plus its a set fee so theres no profiteering. I got 2 nights in a family home in port of St Mary, and i think it was a tenner per night.

As described to me by a friend who has been a number of times - the homeowners get a substantial council tax (or their equivilent) discount for doing this.
Implying the tourism cash brought to the island is clearly worth it in their eyes. So I dont see it being halted any time soon.

I'd heard £40million to the local economy over the two weeks. I'd imagine that the amount of 'cash' changing hands would be another significant amount. Say one thing about the Isle of Man, they like their cash payments.

I've been watching the coverage on the TT+ app,£14.99 it's an absolute bargain.
Hicky is obviously the man to beat,Dean Harrison,Davey Todd & Connor Cummins seem to be his biggest rivals for the Senior.I think the biggest unknown is Michael Dunlop,if they can get that Suzuki dialled in he could win.
Dunlop had some big issues with their tyres,anyone see Davey Todd's rear tyre?
I'll be back there for the Classic TT in August,it's much more relaxed & you get all sorts of old bikes turning up from all over Europe,stuff you very rarely see,I turn into a proper anorak for a few days.
Lee Johnston & Dave Hewson have good channels on You Tube,were you get to see the riders doing there own vlog's,the behind the scenes stuff.Hewson is the typical privateer,doing it for the love of it all.
Regarding the danger/lunacy of the event,I wouldn't go when my mate raced it as we all know what happens when it goes wrong,but I used to help him when he was racing in the BSB support classes.He has a garage business & I used to get my annual service & MOT on my car done before he went to the island,the deal being at least I got a free service & MOT out of him if he didn't come back.. We lost someone we knew well racing at the TT,but my mate still raced the following day.
His attitude to the risk was 'well you go climbing & plenty get killed doing that' I pointed out it's high altitude mountaineering where the fatalities happen not rock climbing.Regarding the drain on the NHS,I think moutain biking is more dangerous,the main difference being when things go badly wrong on mtb's you end up in a wheel chair,when it goes badly wrong at road racing you end up in a box.
Ironically he had no accidents on the Isle of Man,but was involved in a fatal at Cadwell Park.

Love the spectacle of it, like a superspeeded up Tdf time trial. But only on highlights where you know they haven't crashed, watching live would have me wincing to the point of not enjoying it.

When I read it I thought you meant time trial, to which I was going to say "I am doing my first TT at the weekend; doing it on my gravel bike and Bell Super helmet". But alas it is a different type of TT.

We dont here the same said for cyclists killed on roads and in traffic. No ‘They died doing something they loved’ doesn’t really cut it does it.

That's not the same thing - that's being killed by somebody else. If I died in a cross race or after a MTB crash I'd bet that people would say that about me.

The 'Live' coverage has a 20 second delay, so anyone fancying seeing 3 or 4 races tomorrow can still sign up safe in the knowledge that they won't see anything terrible.

renting out their kids

The Isle of Man eh?

The Isle of Man eh?

Definitely worth a visit at least once in your lifetime if you're into all things bikes. Spent a few years living over there in my mid to late teens / early 20's. The atmosphere was always excellent, and really brought a usually quiet island to life.

And yes, that Fast Show sketch is deadly accurate. 😀

Good race this morning and the sidecar was impressive too, unfortunately finished with a red flag. No news as yet.

And yes, that Fast Show sketch is deadly accurate.

YES.

But just because these people exist is it right and proper to give them an outlet? Take it to the next level – should the owner of a bridge known for suicides provide a jumping platform and booking form to facilitate their decision?

Pretty sure they are out there doing their best NOT to kill themselves though aren't they ?

Father and son on a sidecar killed today. Horrendous to hear.

And a spectator. (Unannounced) 😓

I love watching the sidecars but it's always a bit heart in mouth.

And a spectator. (Unannounced)

How do you know this if unannounced?

I've not heard anything about a spectator

Spectator death is conjecture.

The death of the Sidecar outfit today brings the total fatalities this meeting to five. I don't remember so many tragic deaths at one TT.

The fatality in the French Sidecar outfit who crashed earlier in the week wrongly reported that the passenger had died when in fact it was the driver.

How utterly horrendous for all involved.

If it was a horse race meeting it would be banned.

Do you mean as in if five horses died it would be banned, or jockeys?

If horses then the difference is that the entrants to the TT make a conscious choice to enter, horses don't have a choice.

Yes it's horrendous as are all fatalities but participants are free to enter or not as they wish & I for one don't want to see or live a life devoid of all risk, given how many people die or are severely ill through poor diet, lack of exercise, drinking, drug taking, poor housing etc I think a few motorcyclists risk their lives should be the least of our worries.
I am a motorcyclist, the IOM would scare me shitless but that's not to say I don't take risks either when motorcycling or cycling.

We dont here the same said for cyclists killed on roads and in traffic. No ‘They died doing something they loved’ doesn’t really cut it does it.

Totally different, innit?

Ride in the TT and you know that the only thing that's going to kill you is your own misjudgement. Ride a bike on the road and the thing that's going to kill you is someone else deliberately choosing to take an unnecessary risk at your expense.

“ The TT riders know that the twin impostors of triumph and disaster are separated by fractions of seconds, millimetres, and sometimes by sheer, dumb luck. They choose to race not because they seek death, but because they seek life at its most extreme, visceral. The homogenised, pasteurised, semi-skimmed version of life is not for Milky, McGuinness and the rest. They want the cream.

Every year, people die climbing Everest, yet pursuit of the peak is seen as noble. The TT riders have their own Everest. It is a 2,036 ft mountain called Snaefell. And, with any luck, when they're up there, the glimpse they get of that sixth kingdom will only be a fleeting one.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jun/01/motorsports.motorracing

I will say that I think it may slowly fade away all the same, some of the racers and the spectators and fans are mostly of a certain age group.

I’m hoping this happens. Doesn’t normally bother me when I hear about TT fatalities but 5 this year and a father and son team. Really upset me that one.

Every year, people die climbing Everest

The death rate for climbers above base camp (0.6-2.2%) is about the same as that for the TT. Last time I looked, climbing Everest was not a spectator sport. So not really comparable. Watching the racing is indeed thrilling. Watching people die is overrated (in my personal experience).

Last time I looked, climbing Everest was not a spectator sport

This is key for me, certainly we watch the TT because of the danger and the spectacle as I get older I question this more

There is a great interview on YouTube for Bennett’s with one of the commercial director’s of the TT.

They’ve launched the TT+ live stream to open it up to a new audience because they had calculated that the current audience and participants were ageing and it would be unsustainable.

I love it. The Everest quote above sums it up, people should be able to choose to live on the edge.

The racing this year has been excellent.

Last time I looked, climbing Everest was not a spectator sport. So not really comparable.

It’s a sport that garners considerable sponsorship, publicity and is reliant on an individual taking considerable risks. People follow blogs, blogs and dots, documentaries are made, people get rich of it, etc as climbers climb so it’s not a massively abnormal comparator.

I'm fortunate to have competed in the Isle of Mann International ycling week a cuple of times. Bloody fantastic coming just after the TT races. 60 mph on a pedal bike coming off Snaefell was goo, into the hairpin with a pub/house on the bend and sheep everywhere.

Roads weren't fully closed, but starting on the ramp, then bombing down the hill in Douglass at 50mph, watching out for early morning old guys getting their papers, not realising there was a pedal bike speeding towards them - that was fun.

I've said it already, so arguably don't need to say it again, but for me there is a significant difference between being the participant in an activity with massive risk (it is quite literally your funeral and as someone who has done very risky stuff in the past it would be churlish to disapprove of others doing the same) and the organiser of an event which puts others in massive risk, especially if the organiser is doing it in a position of zero personal risk and there is a commercial benefit to a either the organiser (or a local community in the case of the TT) in encouraging/facilitating that risky behaviour. One (the rider) can be a morally reasonably place to stand, the other not so much. Just because you've got a group of people prepared to take that risk does not obligate you giving them an outlet/taking advantage of them to produce a profitable spectacle.

The Everest analogy is interesting. I have no issue with climbers or groups of climbers taking that challenge on. Where it gets dubious is when guiding companies shove half baked chubby businessmen up the mountain where the profit margin might blur the risk/reward thinking.

Just because you’ve got a group of people prepared to take that risk does not obligate you giving them an outlet/taking advantage of them to produce a profitable spectacle.

See ocean going yacht racing, American football, gp f1 etc, rugby, and with the level of systematic doping pro cycling