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I would have thought such a topic would have had quite a lively discussion around it and the usual culprits frothing at the gills..
Regardless of the obvious dubious morality of the event I must say its a very odd decision for charities to return any previous donations. Call out sexism where You see it by all means, but giving the money back just means the kids that would have benefited will miss out..
i thought the ex Presidents in the original Point Break much more entertaining 🙂
Depends on where your morality lies dunnit...
Take the cash n run.
Hand the cash back and moan.
The main issue is the ingrained sexism and the fact that plenty of Politicians were happy to sit around waving thier cash about..
Rich men behaving like misogynistic pricks at a men only event, quelle surprise!!
Oh god do we have to? It’s just...depressing and disgusting.
It is disgusting. The whole thing is creepy as ****.
The charities which benefitted in the past are, I think, being a bit 'precious' .
The charities which benefitted in the past are, I think, being a bit ‘precious’ .
I'm actually quite surprised that none of them have attended over the years.
Want to see a list of businesses that have had ceo's etc attend. It may sway where my pittance of a salary is spent, I don't want to contribute to a bunch of misogynistic bellends anymore.
I'm surprised how poor the vision of the high profile celebs was as they saw nothing.
and I'd love to see the NDA the girls had to sign unread.
To my mind the ‘charming’ chaps pissed on their own chips...
Men only dinner
less than enlightened way the sold some of the goods at the charity auction and in fairness the prizes themselves.
The way the female staff dressed, or were told to dress (depending who you ask)
All a bit slimy but it’s pretty far from the worst thing I’ve seen at a gathering of ‘business men’
but groping and propositioning the women obviously bang out of order and makes the above and the event seem like hell on Earth.
Guardian published a list of who attended the last one if you really want to know. Philip green and vernon kay only famous ones I think, others all very rich but anonymous city types.
but yeah who’s been in the past and is looking a bit sheepish I don’t know.
I'm not sure I can get overly upset by this to be honest.
The blokes knew what they were getting. The girls knew what they were getting. I don't buy that any girls could have thought that "hostessing" at a men only party, whilst being invited to partake in the drinking, wearing small black dresses, would have assumed it would not have been anything but lecherous. In fact, I listened to a Radio 4 interview with a couple of the hostesses and it sounded perfectly like that everyone knew the score and the agency boss was very supportive if anyone felt uncomfortable.
It's a free society. People can choose to pay for the entertainment they want, and people can choose to accept money to provide it. The only thing that doesn't sit well is that companies were involved in buying seats at the tables - that isn't on.
"I don’t buy that any girls could have thought that “hostessing” at a men only party, whilst being invited to partake in the drinking, wearing small black dresses, would have assumed it would not have been anything but lecherous"
Does sticking your hand up someones skirt count as lecherous in your world?
<span style="color: #444444;">Does sticking your hand up someones skirt count as lecherous in your world?</span>
Listening to the two hostesses on Radio 4 it was made perfectly clear that there would be some "handsy" behaviour (in the words of the agency boss). She made it clear that groping was stepping over the line and that this sort of behaviour should be reported.
Meanwhile, some hostesses were willing to follow these blokes up to their hotel rooms. So there certainly wasn't a consistent red line here for all the hostesses.
<span style="color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">Does sticking your hand up someones skirt count as lecherous in your world?</span>
That cost an extra £150. Half to the hooker, half to the charity
Summed up perfectly by the mash here...
if your opinion differs from that too much, maybe you want to have a look at yourself as the chances are you may be a horrible misogynistic ****
It’s pretty obvious the groping behaviour had become a regular occurrence or the FT wouldn’t have run an undercover operation. As such it’s disgraceful organisation masquerading as a charity and should have been “outed” and shut down.
<span style="color: #444444; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: #eeeeee;">Meanwhile, some hostesses were willing to follow these blokes up to their hotel rooms. So there certainly wasn’t a consistent red line here for all the hostesses.</span>
That in some ways is fair enough as I am sure that was a privately negotiated extra paid service. The issue is groping the girls that weren’t prostitutes and suggesting it was a charity event
"Listening to the two hostesses on Radio 4 it was made perfectly clear that there would be some “handsy” behaviour "
Oh well thats fine then!!!
Any chance you could keep it down? Still got a raging hangover.
>Any chance you could keep it down? Still got a raging hangover.
As a said at the time Flashy, don't get your knob out at the dinner table until after the coffee has been served. Any earlier is just crass...
This does remind me of the time I went to a hostess club in Japan on a work trip once. A couple of the blokes I was with were uncomfortably lecherous, but no groping as such. The girls handled it well though - I assume they saw it all the time. As it happens one of my group was a woman, so I stuck close to her to avoid getting caught up in all the fake flirting from the hostesses.
A thoroughly uncomfortable evening really. I can’t understand why some blokes enjoy this sort of thing. It’s as though they think these girls actually enjoy their company and swoon at the sight of their fat paunch.
Just the whole hostesses thing......just why?
Why, as a wealthy and influential businessman, would you feel comfortable at an event where attractive young women are paid to pretend to want to be around you?
I just don't get it. It's phony and creepy even before the harrassment comes into it. I can't imagine why anyone was at that event unless they thought they were going to get more than weirdly contrived "company".
I just don’t get it. It’s phony and creepy even before the harrassment comes into it. I can’t imagine why anyone was at that event unless they thought they were going to get more than weirdly contrived “company”.
It's a social dominance thing. These guys are all rich and powerful and where they work they are close to, if not, top dog. An event like this is fundamentally about futhering your social dominance by putting you in a room with all the other alpha chimps to see who has the biggest cock. And what better way to disguise your pathological need for that than by disguising it in the veil of charitable giving.
Load of attractive 'hostesses' get paid to flirt around successful, rich blokes at a private event.. all seemingly consenting adults.. Only one who complains is a Journo who shouldnt have been there in the first place Much worse goes off in car parks, public toilets and NT woodland up and down the country.
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">It’s pretty obvious the groping behaviour had become a regular occurrence or the FT wouldn’t have run an undercover operation</span>
This is why I find all the people announcing that despite attending they had no idea at all what went on slightly dubious to say the least.
I cant imagine the FT staff were just bored and decided to go undercover on a whim as opposed to it having a certain reputation in the relevant circles.
Daily Mail fectard Peter Oborne is on QT tonight and reasoned 'cos it raised £20M for charidee it's okay
The mind boggles
The hypocrisy around this is distasteful. Let's not think about the many people irreversibly affected during the processing, moving and supplying of the nose bag they were consuming too...
Its almost as though the release of the new forum was timed to create a smoke screen, a distraction from what's really happening out there...
Its almost as though the release of the new forum was timed to create a smoke screen, a distraction from what’s really happening out there…
It makes you think
"Load of attractive ‘hostesses’ get paid to flirt around successful, rich blokes at a private event.. all seemingly consenting adults.. Only one who complains is a Journo who shouldnt have been there in the first place Much worse goes off in car parks, public toilets and NT woodland up and down the country."
You really dont get it do you. How sad.
This is why I find all the people announcing that despite attending they had no idea at all what went on slightly dubious to say the least.
Well of course they know it went on quite simply because irrespective of the event or circumstances, we know that kind of thing does go on. So if you're anywhere, whatever the event you're at, Henley, New Year's Eve in Trafalga Square, Pamplona, the London Marathon, anywhere there are lots of people congregating then someone somewhere is going to get touched inappropriately.
The problem is that if you gave that answer in response to attending this specific event you'd be blamed for being complicit and nailed to the wall.
Now, I may regret this post but here we go. Whilst I've not been to this particular night, I have been to something similar (Google "Gents Night Out Birmingham" if you want). It seemed to have a similar feel, room full of old, rich blokes, female waitresses, charity auction, games at the table, comedian, a "girls show" by the ladies from Legs Eleven and a pile of drinks.
The good bit of the night, the bit used to justify it, is that it really does raise a shed load of money for charity. Give rich blokes a pile of booze, a sob story on a screen and mix in a bit of "I've got more money than you" and you find some serious bids in the ubiquitous auction. Signed yellow jersey by Brad Wiggins, £15k. 4 ball of a golf club with a very C list celeb, £35k. Use of a sports car for a weekend, £10k, trip round the houses of parliament with a Lord of some kind, £50k+. <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">People were spending astonishing amounts of money of things you can pick up for £100 any other time. </span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Plus they sell some big teddy bears, the kind you can pick up for £20 or so, for £150 each and sell hundreds. You can say that they should donate this money without these nights and they should, but sadly, they won't, it's part of the act and show they like to put on. The other </span>positive<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> was that Roy Chubby Brown was the comedian and he got booed of stage after 10 minutes.</span>
The negative is just how horrible large groups of men like that can be. Our table was quite civilized, partly as we didn't have the money most others do, mainly as we're not horrible people, but the sites we saw were just plain nasty. Lecherous, "handsy" men who just loved being in control and being the big man. Doug Ellis up on stage getting a lap dance in front of 1000 other men. Then the evening finishes and it's off to the hotel bar where it's strictly expensive Scotch or Brandy and a chat with the girls. For some reason, some of the girls are suddenly very interested in the fat, old men and head off to their rooms...
I guess the reason I write this is that whilst The Presidents Club is clearly a big deal and no well known, I suspect that there are a lot of these happening every week around the country.
I got invited the following year and turned it down, not an enjoyable evening for me at all. Interesting experience though, not one I shall be looking to relieve anytime soon.
And that's why this particular moment is important. These events have been going on for years, but maybe, just maybe, the culture has finally shifted far enough this year to give us the opportunity to get rid of them.
It might seem a bit much to criticise blokes for attending even if they didn't grope some poor hostess, but if that means that these events are unsustainable, it's job done.
The #metoo thing offers a clean-up opportunity, a chance to rein back some of the excesses which were tolerated because the perpetrators were rich/successful/important. No-one is under any illusions that it will create a perfect society where women, or men, aren't abused or demeaned, but it's a step forward, not backwards, and we should take it gladly.
Charities will simply have to find ways to extract money from rich blokes other than getting them drunk and aroused.
Next:
Undercover journo goes to a bar where women are hired on their looks and size of their breasts!
Undercover journalist infiltrates clubs where men go and see women take their clothes off!
I'd better explain before someone gets stressed. It ain't [i]right[/i], but it is far from a [i]surprise[/i].
I think that scumbag gymnastics team doctor is more worthy of a thread too. At least he got a decent sentence, but what a nerve "apologising". Bastard.
>The good bit of the night, the bit used to justify it, is that it really does raise a shed load of money for charity.
You can do that without groping anyone though. We went to the Tony Hadley Golf Day Black Tie dinner, a charity event full of "C list" celebs where people dress up, get drunk and give money to charity. Only they bring their wives along and behave in a vaguely civilised manner. The most unruly it got was an impromptu conga to Tony Christie singing Show me the way to Amarillo.
NB Probably didn't raise quite as much as the President's Club, but the format works well.
<p class="MsoNormal">"Just the whole hostesses thing……just why?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why, as a wealthy and influential businessman, would you feel comfortable at an event where attractive young women are paid to pretend to want to be around you?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I just don’t get it. It’s phony and creepy even before the harassment comes into it. I can’t imagine why anyone was at that event unless they thought they were going to get more than weirdly contrived “company”."</p>
This might seem a bit daft given the story, but take away the groping and look at the story from the 'other end' and it sort of makes more sense.
If you go to these sorts of 'dinners' you get a 'host' per table, in the past when I've gone some have been male, but mostly female, but they always seem to be young, good looking and well turned out, mostly because they work in 'PR' be it hosting, or handing out leaflets in shows or in shopping centres, I'm not sure the work demands you look a certain way or it attracts them but it's the same 'industry'.
They'd say hello, help with drink / food orders, sort out stuff like votes if there are any and stick their hand up and shout if you want to bid for something (because unlike the 'gentlemen' in the story a lot of people don't like to be in the spotlight.
They were there to do a job and professional with it, they'd happily chat, about the weather, their job your job, the charity, the evenings whatever - some of the older guys (I was in my 20s at the time) were happy to just chat to a pretty young lady, but they were hardly gargoyles themselves just 50 odd. Very occasionally some of the sadder older lads would forget they were doing a job and think they could chat them up or even ask them out and they'd be told politely but firmly no and they'd casually mention boyfriends and husbands, it was a sad reflection of how some people act when they're had a few and they 'forget' for a moment they're 53 with a wife and 3 kids and not 23 and single any more...
Anyway, the point is they hosts were never there as some kind of sexual distraction for a bunch of sleazy old men (our dinners weren't men only either) they were 'just' their to organise stuff, somewhere between a waiter and a Maitre De and I suspect that's exactly what happened here and a couple of twunts decided to get all hansy and now it looks like this club is some kind of Lapdancing event, only the no one told the hosts before hand so they were being chased around the hall by a bunch of randy sad cases.
I'm not surprised many people didn't see anything, mostly because no one with enough profile to be asked by the papers is going to admit ANYTHING, but equally I doubt it was that bad and was probably limited to a few ****ers who ruined the evening.
They've just been discussing this on Five Live. its truly depressing how many prehistoric blokes came on saying that women should 'lighten up', or that they should just accept that thats the way things are at these kind of do's
I’d better explain before someone gets stressed. It ain’t right, but it is far from a surprise.
It isn't - but that doesn't mean the journalism isn't worthwhile - clearly the undercover journo has made a real difference here.
" its truly depressing how many prehistoric blokes came on saying that women should ‘lighten up"
Alternatively it's truly surprising how many 'modern' men find it odd/wrong that attractive women choose to make money from the way they look and and that successful men are willing to capitalise on that.
Wind back a couple of decades.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abuse-on-the-premises-1352192.html
It's nice when the thing which is 'normal' suddenly becomes wrong.
Will someone think of the women for a second, if these events are outlawed, where will the gold diggers end up? On the check out at Aldi? Is that what we want? Really?
Alternatively it’s truly surprising how many ‘modern’ men find it odd/wrong that attractive women choose to make money from the way they look and and that successful men are willing to capitalise on that.
and there we go - I was wondering how long before we got the obligatory "some of the women think it's OK, so it's OK" post
Alternatively it’s truly surprising how many ‘modern’ men find it odd/wrong that attractive women choose to make money from the way they look and and that successful men are willing to capitalise on that.
I'm not surprised, I just find it a bit depressing that a certain section of the male population still think its 1970. Most of us manage to be behave in a civilised manner around members of the opposite sex, and have no problem respecting the boundaries.
I'm not remotely surprised that the type of egotistical, self-entitled narcissist who would got to a men-only do at something titled 'The Presidents Club' might struggle with it.
And a woman making money from working at a do like that should never have to 'just accept' that that involves having blokes shove their hands up their skirts. If you think that is in any way acceptable in any way, at any event, or at any location, you may want to check the date and remind yourself which century you're living in
Alternatively it’s truly surprising how many ‘modern’ men find it odd/wrong that attractive women choose to make money from the way they look and and that successful men are willing to capitalise on that.
President and 1st lady?
>you may want to check the date and remind yourself which century you’re living in
One where the current POTUS thinks it's absolutely fine to behave like that!
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px;">they think these girls actually enjoy their company and swoon at the sight of their fat paunch.</span>
” its truly depressing how many prehistoric blokes came on saying that women should ‘lighten up” or that they should just accept that thats the way things are"
"Alternatively it’s truly surprising how many ‘modern’ men find it odd/wrong that attractive women choose to make money from the way they look and and that successful men are willing to capitalise on that."
The first quote is the reason for the second <span style="text-decoration: underline;">not being a choice</span>: society still pervades the old misogyny so that execs and boards of companies are full of men who have inappropriate activities laid on for them and the entertainment industry finds women who need to work and having not had the opportunities to work jobs offered to men, find themselves with no choice other than wearing clothes they don't really want to and have blokes who they don't know putting their hands where they aren't wanted.
Well....yes.... I'm sure we all look to Donald Trump when we're searching for a barometer as to acceptable behaviour towards women
What we're saying bin bins, with that reference, is, not that we look to Trump, or should, but that a man, being so obvious an example of this type of behaviour, has been voted into the one of the most powerful positions in the World by the American people. In 2017.
So... you know... long long way to go.
Again.... I won't be looking to the kind of squirrel-eating rednecked shit-kicker who voted for Trump as an example of how to treat women. Or ethnic minorities, or anything else for that matter
I don't think its too much of a stretch to expect that the kind of 'Masters of the Universe' who were present at a do like that might aim a bit higher as well
I don’t think its too much of a stretch to expect that the kind of ‘Masters of the Universe’ who were present at a do like that might aim a bit higher as well
I'm sure they all have high aspirations - they'd all like to be like Donnie.
[i]Or ethnic minorities[/i]
Heard on the news this morning, that he's the 'least racist person you could meet'... I bet he's probably the least sexist too.
Some of these comments.. hehehe
I'll proudly admit to being a knuckle dragging sexist pig from the last century. Surprisingly, outside the bizarre universe of this forum, it's still quite acceptable in most circles I frequent..
@elzorillo, not being provocative here, but why would you be proud to be a "knuckle dragging, sexist pig from the last century"? I can understand why people might be that kind of person but not why they'd be proud of the fact.
I’ll proudly admit to being a knuckle dragging sexist pig from the last century. Surprisingly, outside the bizarre universe of this forum, it’s still quite acceptable in most circles I frequent..
Doubtless your personal echo chambers are full of other sexist pigs affirming your own views, that's the way these things work, but it doesn't mean wider society is all like the circles you frequent (thankfully), and it doesn't make this forum bizarre. Though what with Poe's law I'm not sure whether you're proud to be a sexist pig unlike all us liberal snowflakes, or you just need to get back under your bridge.
> Only one who complains is a Journo who shouldnt have been there in the first place
Cos the hostesses were gagged with a non disclosure agreement and had their phones taken away so they couldn't record what was going on.
Raising loads for charity? I wonder how many pay all the tax they're due?
> why would you be proud to be a “knuckle dragging, sexist pig from the last century”?
Because on average they seem to have more fun, be more successful in life and get all the best looking women.
The charities should have taken the money and if they had a problem with the morality have then redirected it to charities that specialise in female abuse.
Why give them their money back ?
The organiser that supplied the women should be done if it is as bad as they say.
Daily Mail fectard Peter Oborne is on QT tonight and reasoned ‘cos it raised £20M for charidee it’s okay
Two words: Jimmy Savile
The behaviour reported at the event revolts me. I am surprised the attendees are classed as “presidents” when they have shown such little respect for fellow human beings. Well done FT for putting it in public view.
As the op I was expecting the reaction posted on here. I'm far from someone who gets in a tizzy when women are employed purely based on their looks (see any pit girl or podium girl thread) but I'm completely with the majority here. It's absolutely depressing that this kind of event exists on so many levels. And the self entitlement on display is equally disgusting.
Back to my op however, not much opinion on handing back the cash charities have received. Sure its a bit tainted, but I'd much rather see it spent on good causes rather than returned to the aforementioned individuals on a point of principle. At least then some good may come of the whole sordid affair. Handing it back benefits noone at this point
With regards to the cash, especially the childrens hospital, it doesn't sit right with me giving it back. That's bound to have some effect on the kids.