[Closed] No kids at 35.

I'm 44 (45 this year) with an 11-month-old and a two and half-year-old..

It's hard work! It's one of life's other adventures.

Younger wives are good 😀

I am counting down the last 3 years or so of maintenance. Imagine having kids late and possibly paying that from a pension !!

Was happy before but happy now in more ways

Imagine having kids late and possibly paying that from a pension !!

Yeah but if you have them young you could have other tough costs - mortgage. So the game is have them young then be free at 50 or late and be paying for their Uni places in your 60s?!

Two here, born when I was 30 and 32. I'm 41 now they're 11 and 9.

The only thing I would say is that as dinkies, we had no real comprehension of the way our lives and psychologies would change and it's difficult to describe in meaningful ways to people that don't have kids.

I never really wanted kids, and only really agreed to keep my wife happy, but I was so unprepared for the most rewarding (and toughest) thing I've ever done.

I'm kind of glad that I had them a touch earlier than some, I have the prospect of being in my late 40s when my kids become able enough to ride with me properly. and do a bunch of active and outdoors stuff with them, without being quite burnt out.

I totally regret missing that with my own dad, who was actually waaaaaayy younger than me at the same stage, but was a sedentary smoker.

Hopefully my youngest will find a career that doesn't need a degree and a 30k debt.Or if he chooses a degree I hope it`s not pointless and has value in the job market

I hope it`s not pointless and has value in the job market

'cos that's what education's for folks 🙄

A lot of this seems to be 'I didn't really want kids, had them late and now my life is fantastic', which is fair enough, I'm genuinely happy for you.

I guess I am a little like the OP. I've always been fairly ambivalent, always assumed it would kind of happen in its own time, and now approaching my mid 30s I am wondering if I am missing out on something, if I will have cause for regret later in life.

Mrs ADH and I approached the topic very early on in our relationship, if anything Mrs ADH is less than keen to have kids. Of course you both wonder if you are missing out on something, if you will have cause for regret later in life. Especially when you see friends have very happy families.

However, neither of us seem to have a burning biological imperative to breed. If you start to consider exactly what a commitment (in time, money, lifestyle, education, healthcare etc etc) it is to do the job of being a parent well (and I am the kind of person who tries to do something well if I am going to do it), then if you're really not driven to do it, why would you?

People say that kids 'add meaning to you life', on a philosophical level I'm not really looking for any 'meaning' in my life. I'm pretty happy with how things are rolling along really, I am more than content with my lot. Mrs ADH feels much the same way.

What is a real bind, for me, is the guilt I feel in that both sets of parents obviously really want grandchildren. They would not try to get us to do something we don't want to do, but their disappointment is palpable, and I intensely dislike having to disappoint my parents. Especially given they made such sacrifices for me. That guilt is something you have to deal with.

We may get to 60 and realise we made a mistake; you can only try to live without regrets and enjoy the life you have built together, whatever your choices were along the way.

Better get your crystal ball out then!

Edric 64 - Member
Hopefully my youngest will find a career that doesn't need a degree and a 30k debt.

speaking as someone with a 'degree-debt'*, don't worry about it. The monthly repayments are tiny, i pay more for my broadband. The new system is even cheaper.

(*i don't owe £30k, but it's not far off)

just remember if you have kids they could become a big hitter in here

Surely only people who live on frightful council estates, live on benefits, and spend their days drinking, smoking and watching Jeremy Kyle, have kids before they're 30 nowadays anyway?

If you do struggle fertility-wise, I'd advise moving to a frightful council estate, live on benefits, and spend your days drinking, smoking and watching Jeremy Kyle. Contrary to perceived medical wisdom, it seems to sort out any issues with conceiving pretty sharpish

Never mind the rolling eyes I appreciate education but some degrees don't seem to offer much and are very Mickey Mouse

What is a real bind, for me, is the guilt I feel in that both sets of parents obviously really want grandchildren. They would not try to get us to do something we don't want to do, but their disappointment is palpable, and I intensely dislike having to disappoint my parents

Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.

If you're gonna do it, get it done ASAP.

If not, no worries - but make sure you make the most of all those glorious child-free hours you have, you bastard.

Going to Uni is so much more than course content.

36 with one on the way, the wife is only 28 though. TBH I was the one pushing as I was worried about bringing up a baby in my 40's!

Nothing is easy though ...Mrs Frodo's waters broke at 19 weeks and were currently taking one day at a time trying to get to at least 24!

It's great.. You'll just end up way more tired, skint and have little spare time. There'll be times when you could just cry when they won't sleep /eat / be quiet for 2 minutes. And there's the proud magic moments which give you goose bumps of love / pride... All very much a rollercoaster of being a parent. Some people make it look easy but I'm sure inside they are screaming. 39.. And 3 girls under 6.

Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.

We do, but it isn't looking much more hopeful in that direction either. We may yet be surprised.

I don't see it as being unfair, its just the way it is. Our parents want grandkids, we are unlikely to produce any.

So I'm 41 and the wife is 42 and neither one of us have ever wanted kids

For those whose wives don't want kids, keep them away from smelling a newborns head....it was like a switch flicking my other halves hormones on!

[quote=anotherdeadhero ]

Are you both without siblings? Hardly fair for you to have that responsibility forced on you alone, even if just by the power of guilt. Any critical system should have redundancy and backups.

Backup failure. I'd sack the managers.

Almost Managed to reach 38 with no kids ... Now at 39 I have a 15 month old and a 3 month pregnant wife.
Squeezing it all in before I'm 40 🙂

We are near bang on the target age, no kids here & currently no intentions to.

Thankfully on my wife's side there already grandchildren, and also thankfully on my side despite being an only child my parents are fairly ambivalent to grand children. Doesn't stop people feeling like they have the right to stick their noses in and force their opinions onto us though.

We're not having kids just because 'that's what people do, isn't it'.

Doesn't stop people feeling like they have the right to stick their noses in and force their opinions onto us though.

its because they want you to suffer like they have.

[i]We may get to 60 and realise we made a mistake; you can only try to live without regrets and enjoy the life you have built together, whatever your choices were along the way. [/i]

It'll more likely happen when one of you loses the other and suddenly you've nobody who really cares for you nor anyone to care for.

And/or, no one to rely on to help you out when you've a problem that you either can't cope with nor fathom out. This is something that becomes apparent as your parents age, and suddenly you realise they rely on you like you did of them.

Having kids because you need them to look after you or because you're scared you might regret not doing - these don't seem like great reasons.

As per some of the above posts, I got together with Mrs Deviant because I want to be with her not because she can have children (or not, who knows?!)...our attitude has always been that we're happy without but if it happens later on we'd probably have children....we're 37 (me) and 32 (her) and don't use contraception, if it happens it happens....she loves her horse, I love anything with two wheels and we both love dogs!

We've had one proper termination a few years ago and called upon the morning after pill a few times, irresponsible?...maybe, been together 7 years and known each other since she was 18....there is no pussy-footing around in our relationship, we're about as cold and clinical as two people get!

Our chats about children are not emotional, they tend to revolve around money, spare time, the hideousness of childbirth, child care and work etc etc....realistically I suppose we're just not very nice people and we know we're incredibly selfish...at least we have insight and have made the appropriate decisions so far unlike some of my friends and colleagues who shouldn't be allowed pets let alone children.

Overpaid the mortgage for 15 years whilst we were trying for kids that never arrived. Now 42 and only working 3 days a week due to a really small mortgage. Would I have preferred to have had kids when we were trying? Yes. Would I choose to have some now? No.

As for getting looked after we've got pleny of younger cousins, neices and nephews and by the time we need it 2 houses to give away when we die.

Mrs CD has just had her 20 week scan and we're having a baby girl. I'm 39, she's 36, later than all our friends but it took longer to find each other and it took a while to conceive.
I never wanted kids until recently, others may feel different.

We may get to 60 and realise we made a mistake; you can only try to live without regrets and enjoy the life you have built together, whatever your choices were along the way.

A friend recently said to me that regret is not a reason to have kids.

Mrs CD has just had her 20 week scan and we're having a baby girl. I'm 39, she's 36, later than all our friends but it took longer to find each other and it took a while to conceive.
I never wanted kids until recently, others may feel different.

Aaaaah huge congrats mate! Didn't realise you were that old! 😀

I wouldn't say there is any right age to have kids, but one issue I see with having kids later in life is that the grand parents are less likely to be able to help out with looking after the kids & in fact might be needing your help to look after themselves at the same time you are having kids yourself. This is coming from the vantage point of having had kids relatively young (3 boys before I hit 30) & also them only having one grandparent left alive before my oldest son turned 11 🙁

I'm 38 and have been single that long I don't even know how to approach a women. People seem surprised that I'm 38, single and no kids.

I actually backed away from my oldest mate as everytime I went round, his wife was always saying " oh you will be left on the shelf....." Did my head in and I've not spoke to him in over a year now.

Will I regret not having kids later ? Doubt it. I've 2 Godaughters who are awesome but my mates ( their dads ) are always telling me off for being too soft with them.

Leaving aside the "no one to take care of us" argument as that seems a bit silly and pretty selfish, the regret one is interesting...if you hate kids or have that disparaging attitude towards parents and families of the usual suspects from the STW Childhaters' Brigade (who curiously enough, seem irresistibly drawn to these threads), then you probably won't be asking yourself if you should or shouldn't. And that's fair enough. It's probably best for everyone involved, you'd probably make an arse of the job anyway.

If you're undecided, I reckon go for it - it's more than likely that you're going to love the child unconditionally. Anecdotally, it seems that most people who were a bit ambivalent towards parenthood beforehand do end up loving their kid(s) and enjoy the experience. The feelings of resentment at missing that snowboarding holiday, impromptu piss-ups and other stuff that seems to happen less after the little one arrives for a few years are more than compensated by the other stuff that new parents gush about all the time. Weighed up against the chances of a (half-ish) lifetime of regret should you decide you'd have liked some after all but now it's either biologically impossible or requiring hugely expensive medical intervention, might be best to just have one or two. You [i]probably[/i] won't regret it.

I confess to being a bit trolly on these threads cos some people's attitudes wind me up a little. I'm still not convinced by the argument of 'you might as well because it will probably be great', even though I think it's mostly true. I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.

I guess the thing that grates on me a bit is some people seem to be suggesting that they think they are a 'better person' for having kids - I'm sure most will deny this but it sort of implies 'I'm a better person than people who don't have kids'. I'm sure parenting can bring out some great things in people, but it can also bring out some not so nice stuff too.

Sure it's a natural instinct to some extent but when people get all 'the only thing in the world that matters is my child/children' I don't think it's particularly healthy or admirable. I know that doesn't happen with everyone but I've seen it with a few people, to varying degrees.

it’s the ‘little miracle’ idolisation clouding peoples judgement that sometimes irks, hormones are obviously quite powerful to muddle peoples thinking so much.
lets face it shagging is a basic reflex action that requires little thought and giving birth is not a miracle or there wouldn’t be 2500 births per hour worldwide.

[i]Leaving aside the "no one to take care of us" argument as that seems a bit silly and pretty selfish,[/i]

Maybe, but it has been the main driver for the human race since the beginning of time - except maybe in the first world for the last century or so...

I'm still not convinced by the argument

I'm not arguing, nor am I trying to convince. More applying some thought (though there's probably a better term) to a "should we, shouldn't we" type question one may be asking oneself. Just trying to look at it from a quirkier perspective other than the two dimensional arguments for and against to which these threads typically descend.

I guess the thing that grates on me a bit is some people seem to be suggesting that they think they are a 'better person' for having kids - I'm sure most will deny this but it sort of implies 'I'm a better person than people who don't have kids'.

I disagree...and I suspect you're arriving at that conclusion because of the attitude that you demonstrate in parenting threads whenever they crop up. I think most people (when they say that) perhaps mean they feel they're a better person than they were before, not necessarily better than anybody else - to give them the benefit of the doubt. Look, I'm not proscribing any particular choice - and I don't feel I'm a better person for having become a parent - I'm different for sure, some good, perhaps some not so good (though I'm so overcome with my own amazeballsness, I haven't got round to working those out yet. 😀 ).

Sure it's a natural instinct to some extent but when people get all 'the only thing in the world that matters is my child/children' I don't think it's particularly healthy or admirable. I know that doesn't happen with everyone but I've seen it with a few people, to varying degrees.

Again, apply some latitude to what people mean when they say this. I've seen it to varying degrees too, but to very very few people, and to be honest, the ones I can think of were bloody boring about other stuff beforehand.

hormones are obviously quite powerful to muddle peoples thinking so much.

I know what you mean. It's like the desire to post trollish remarks on threads just to wind people up and get an erection at the same time - that muddles peoples' minds too and makes otherwise normal people seem like massive bell-ends...unless of course that person really is a bell-end, which I suspect is true in lots of cases.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/couple-with-baby-really-overdoing-talk-of-how-great-it-is-2015060398876

I was almost going to become a dad this year, I'm only 26 and it terrified me. My girlfriend at the time couldn't see through what I guess is hormones and think logically about it (ie I'd only known her for 6 months, we're both pretty young with careers to go after and all that stuff) for a while but I'm so glad we didn't go through with it. Felt like a massive weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Not sure if I'll ever want to get into that position again, just don't think it's for me at all. She was well up for it, and so the relationship ended as we clearly want different things out of life! Not ready to settle down any time soon.

I know what you mean. It's like the desire to post trollish remarks on threads just to wind people up and get an erection at the same time - that muddles peoples' minds too and makes otherwise normal people seem like massive bell-ends...unless of course that person really is a bell-end, which I suspect is true in lots of cases.

i’m not sure i’m with you on the sexualisation of posting on the internet but if that makes you tumescent then fill your boots. but yes it’s surprising how normal people think they are the best drivers, and are superior parents etc. i see the same kind of reactions when challenged by the unthinkable notion that they are not perfect behind the wheel and neither are their wonderful offspring.*

*not at driving, you know what i mean

i’m not sure i’m with you on the sexualisation of posting on the internet

Yeah, maybe your mind is a bit muddled. Again.

I disagree...and I suspect you're arriving at that conclusion because of the attitude that you demonstrate in parenting threads whenever they crop up. I think most people (when they say that) perhaps mean they feel they're a better person than they were before, not necessarily better than anybody else - to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I dunno, perhaps I'm being over-sensitive (like a parent when their child/parenting is criticised 😉 ) but the theme of a lot of what people say about parenting comes across to me a bit like this:

Before children I was shallow and selfish and my life lacked meaning, now I have children AND ITS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER and if you don't have them you are still shallow and selfish and missing out and will die lonely and full of regret.

I find people being evangelical about anything tedious - as you say some people are boring about anything, but parenting seems to be one of the few things where it's still socially acceptable to evangelise.

Yeah, maybe your mind is a bit muddled. Again.

i think it might be you with the angry bee in your bonnet 🙄

I wouldn't worry about whether other people think you're leaving it too late or not ,personally I'm happy with the way we ended up doing it (1st son at 35 2nd at nearly 41).

Mrscarlos and I have been together since being 19 years old ,at that age I wanted to start a family but she said no way so we spent the next 15 years enjoying each others company and doing what we wanted. All of our friends who got together about the same time and had kids early have split up ,having a family early didn't work for them.

My boys are now 10 and 4 and there are times I wish we'd started earlier as the pair of them make the duracell bunny look like a sloth but it keeps us both going. I have noticed at school there are a lot of older parents so I don't feel like a grandad when picking them up(even if I feel like one 1/2 an hour after getting them to bed)

[i] I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.[/i]

People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.

now I have children AND ITS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER

And you know what? For some people it is. I can't see why you can't accept that. You might not like that they no longer see snowboarding, DJing, photography (to pick a few examples 😉 etc ) and endlessly droning on about them in the pub on a schoolnight as the fulfilling activities they once did. But their lives and priorities have changed. They're still the same people - just with a different outlook and a bit less availability for getting pissed on a Tuesday evening.

...if you don't have them you are still shallow and selfish and missing out and will die lonely and full of regret

I find people being evangelical about anything tedious - as you say some people are boring about anything, but parenting seems to be one of the few things where it's still socially acceptable to evangelise.

Tbh, I'd find it tedious too if it was as common as you seem to be making out, but it really isn't in my world. Almost as tedious as people making sweeping generalisations. But I don't think that's going to stop people doing it anytime soon.

People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.

I agree, but by the same token, you can't assume that everyone will feel the same way. It is kind of an irreversible action, and nobody can be sure that their circumstances will engender appreciation of parenting from an ambivalent initial premise.

I think the natural tendency is for parents to espouse the 'kids are great, you'll love being a parent view', in a similar manner to bike kit reviews: everyone should get what you have got, because you're convinced you've got the best. What is the technical term for this, confirmation bias? I forget.

I have known several parents, both male and female, all ages, both early and late starters, who privately confide that they wish they had not had children. I'm sure these people do not openly and publicly air this view. Attempting to guess the frequency of either distribution is difficult, and as alluded to above, possibly irrelevant on an individual basis.

To anyone worried about being an old parent, there's a simple solution. Move to London and you'll almost certainly not stick out as an old parent 🙂

Whenever I go back, I'm always struck by how noticeably older parents of young kids are compared to elsewhere.

(To the OP - do what you reckon is right. People pushing you to have them is just subconscious validation of their own choices)

I reckon if I had kids it would be great, but I reckon not having kids could be just as great, in a different way.

People can only speak from their own experiences, but at the risk of being accused of evangelising, for me - I cannot agree with this statement. Although I might have done before I had kids. Make of that what you will.

Same as Stevet1, I would have before having a child agreed with grum as I was (and still am) pretty happy with life and having kids was never a big big deal to me, and I didn't really get people gushing about their children as its really not that exciting or amazing that little Jonny can point at shapes of animals on demand and I always hated people giving me there most precious 'thing' to hold.

However since my little one turned up and this is only my personal view about my personal circumstances, I now realise what I was missing out on a very rich and fulfilling experience. I guess its similar to the view that you don't miss what you have never had, however to dismiss something you haven't experienced as not as good as what you already have seems like a crazily blinkered view of life to me, yes the grass isn't always greener, but sometimes it is, and for me in this case I am glad I took the chance.

Also, if you really think that people are harping on about how great it is to have kids, so you are just as stuck as them not doing whatever you want to, when you want to. Then it might be worth taking a bit of time to evaluate your life as that level of cynicism about life isn't healthy.

Not having kids is OK, having kids is OK, thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.

thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.

Nah, it's your kids that do that 😉

And you know what? For some people it is. I can't see why you can't accept that. You might not like that they no longer see snowboarding, DJing, photography (to pick a few examples etc ) and endlessly droning on about them in the pub on a schoolnight as the fulfilling activities they once did. But their lives and priorities have changed. They're still the same people - just with a different outlook and a bit less availability for getting pissed on a Tuesday evening.

OK, but at least I drone on about a variety of things, not just the same one over and over and over again. 🙂

Also, if you really think that people are harping on about how great it is to have kids, so you are just as stuck as them not doing whatever you want to, when you want to. Then it might be worth taking a bit of time to evaluate your life as that level of cynicism about life isn't healthy.

Eh?

Not having kids is OK, having kids is OK, thinking that everyone is conspiring to ruin your life is seriously not OK.

Eh?

I don't see many people without kids saying 'you should try not having kids sometime, it's amazing - you're really missing out', but it seems to be ok to say this the other way round. And as someone said up there, I suspect there are many people who actually do regret having kids (or are at least on the fence) but it's not really socially acceptable to say so. Some people sound a bit like they are trying to convince themselves they love it.

I don't think it's really fair to paint me as some cynical child-hater for saying this - as I've already said I reckon if I had kids I'd probably get on with it and enjoy it, but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.

I think going 'well I'm not feeling any burning desire to have kids but everyone else does it and they all say it's great so I suppose I might as well, plus I'll have someone to look after me when I'm old' is really a great way of looking at things.

OK, but at least I drone on about a variety of things, not just the same one over and over and over again.

Meaningless, empty and boring for some people. Not for me though, as I genuinely try and take an interest in the things my friends find interesting rather than accusing [i]all[/i] of them of evangelising about their particular thing.

but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.

You don't say! 😀

A few points if I may:

1. By the time you decide you want children, it may be too late.

2. There's almost NEVER a good time to have children.

3. Its almost impossible to imagine being a parent, so difficult to decide if you are going to enjoy it or not.

4. No one can ever tell anyone else how they will feel when their first child arrives.

........and finally, my Mum is now an 84 yr old widow and in good nick, but she has been badly scammed and relies on both my brother and I to help her wiv stuff. I genuinely wonder how she would fare without us. So it's a potentially big issue being stored up for childless people.

Not for me though, as I genuinely try and take an interest in the things my friends find interesting rather than accusing all of them of evangelising about their particular thing.

Pretty sure I haven't accused [i]all[/i] of my friends of evangelising about one thing? Just think there is a bit of tendency that way with some parents. I genuinely like hearing some stuff about some of my friend's kids - when they do something that's funny or interesting, or there is a particularly nice picture of them or something.

Meaningless, empty and boring for some people.

Because those people are so obsessed with their children that nothing else could ever seem worthwhile or interesting to them? 😛

I'm not claiming I don't bore some people on Facebook with the shit I'm into - in fact I'm sure I do.

You're not on my list of boring parents BTW darcy. 😉

He's on mine 😉

I don't think it's really fair to paint me as some cynical child-hater for saying this - as I've already said I reckon if I had kids I'd probably get on with it and enjoy it, but I'm not sure if it's particularly for me.

I think going 'well I'm not feeling any burning desire to have kids but everyone else does it and they all say it's great so I suppose I might as well, plus I'll have someone to look after me when I'm old' is really a great way of looking at things.

Sounds like I had similar views to you tbh.

Personally I wasn't worried about getting old and the associated risks, the decider for me was my other half really wanted kids, so for me her happiness was more important to me than my ambivalence.

Stating the obvious one thing to consider is I know a few people in long term relationships where it has all gone a bit wrong when they find out its no longer their choice and one of them starts to resent the other. As whilst they both said they weren't bothered one way or another it turns out women sometimes don't say what they really mean, and when its too late there is **** all you can do about it as you don't get a second go at life.

He's on mine

Who are you? 🙂

On my very rare visits to the pub, I have to be virtually forced at knife point to talk about my kids.

And I can't say my dad pals tend to drone on about theirs either.

Just saying.

But my Facebook is virtually all kids, dog and bikes.

It's all I get time to do ffs.

Charles Kennedy - probably not the right time but another perfectly good reason to have kids earlier rather than later 🙁 in fact my first wife was the daughter of older parents who died when she was 9 (father) & 16 (mother), my ineptitude at parenthood in my mid 20's doesn't hold a candle to loosing one's parents at an early age

34 when my twin girls were born. 2 in August.

When they arrived I had a few months of dawning realisation of what my parents had been through to bring me into the world. I know now that is something I can never repay to them, but I can pay it forward to my own kids.

We stand on the shoulders of countless generations and as a species we sweep forward relentlessly. As individuals, we all have the responsibility of those countless generations on our hands and I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try. Not wanting kids because you think you'll be a terrible parent is a good reason. Fretting about your freedom is not.

All IMO of course.

I'm with Grum on this, I think.

I get that people are enthusiastic about things that they're passionate about. But I've had a few friends for whom reproducing has replaced their sense of self. They've turned from interesting people into "babies babies babies babies babies deep breath babies babies babies babies babies babies babies." Everything they ever say or do involves babies in some wholly irrelevant way. "Went to the bank today to pay a cheque in, with my baby." Their entire life has been surrogated and whilst I applaud doting parents I think it's a little bit sad that now they're living someone else's life rather than their own. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

EDIT: sorry... gonna delete that

that was just blatant trolling and pretty mean-spirited

Non-breeders have already got enough to deal with 🙂

reproducing

To be honest, the fact that you have to constantly refer to parenthood as "reproducing" or "reproduction" on any related thread tells me all I need to know about your attitude to the whole thing.

But I've had a few friends

So is that all your friends who've become parents? Around half? Just a few? I reckon I can count a "few" people out of every subset of friends-what-have-something-in-common who are a bit of a bore about their particular thing. It kinda follows that way with folk. There are always going to be a few that ruin it for the rest of the normal ones.

To be honest, the fact that you have to constantly refer to parenthood as "reproducing" or "reproduction" on any related thread tells me all I need to know about your attitude to the whole thing.

You misinterpret intent in my light-hearted and irreverent writing style here I fear.

So is that all your friends who've become parents? Around half? Just a few?

Just a few. Clue's in the use of the word "few" in the sentence you quoted. I was by no means generalising, they're a minority.

People who dedicate their lives to their kids is one thing, people who dedicate their lives to an online forum posting thousands of times is another!

I get that people are enthusiastic about things that they're passionate about. But I've had a few friends for whom reproducing has replaced their sense of self.

"Hi how are you?"
"little Timmy did his first proper pooh"
"That's nice, so what else is new?"
"Tilly has got here name down for a good school"
"Great, and how are you?"
"Oh fine now we have found a good childminder who can prepare vegetarian food"

And so I goes on, any sense of self is replaced with the minutiae of mini-me's life steps. Thankfully not everyone falls into that trap but it's far too common.
Makes me think of that Nick Helm sketch and playing the heavy metal CD round his mates at vol3

I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.

HTH 😉

You misinterpret...

I'm not convinced to be honest, but there's no point in arguing it further.

Thankfully not everyone falls into that trap but it's far too common.

You're finally getting there.

I only want kids if I become so well off, I can afford to give up most of my work whilst owning some house in a warm country with a big pool, a poolside bar and a balcony overlooking it all so that can prowl like a lion.

If I do manage that, then I will have four and start my own dynasty/clan.

You're finally getting there.

We stand on the shoulders of countless generations and as a species we sweep forward relentlessly. As individuals, we all have the responsibility of those countless generations on our hands and I think you need to have a pretty good reason not to even try.

You see, this is the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm talking about darcy. Apparently I need to have a pretty good reason not to even try and have kids. Excuse me?

You see, this is the kind of arrogant nonsense I'm talking about darcy. Apparently I need to have a pretty good reason not to even try and have kids. Excuse me?

Yeah, not sure having more kids is the best option with our current rate of consumption.

What do we owe history, or even biology? Tourmanalis seems to think we have a moral obligation to pass on our genes? Why? The human species given a long enough timeline will be extinct anyway.

Most of my friends who've had kids seem to fall in to one of two camps:

They are either totally self absorbed, have become boring and seem to spend their entire lives posting pictures of said kids on Facebook.

Or they seem totally stressed out about the whole thing, have little time or cash and rarely ever come biking any more.

Thankfully there are a small minority who seem to get it right and involve the kids in their hobbies, friends etc (rather than revolving everything about their lives around the kids) Kids seem happier too in this instance.

awww man...

look at all the cute unrealised non-breeders venting their (understandable) insecurity on the proper grown-ups

the paradox is, that although full maturity as a human being cannot possibly be achieved until you have experienced the unfathomable infinite responsibility of parenthood, you're probably emotionally better off revelling in blissful ignorance 🙂

Thankfully there are a small minority who seem to get it right and involve the kids in their hobbies, friends etc (rather than revolving everything about their lives around the kids) Kids seem happier too in this instance.

That's an overwhelming majority in my case. I dunno...maybe it's the people you hang out with.

Tourmanalis seems to think we have a moral obligation to pass on our genes? Why?

I don't actually, I think everyone should do whatever they want. My personal experience of parenthood has left me with a great sense of indebtedness to my folks and that is something I wish to pay forward to my kids. My post was largely about my own motivations but flame away!

My husband was 41 when my oldest was born.....I was only 23 though. Glad we had them when we did, I'd say how old is your other half?!? I am now 37, probably fitter than I was at 23, but glad I had mine when I did (23 and 25),

I know people who left it late and ended up either childless, or had only one (even tough they really would have liked more).

Simone