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Apparently someone took some and was naughty on a plane.
Therefore it can't be prescribed anymore.
Getting paralytic on booze is perfectly acceptable.
What else can I take ,who can I moan to?
I've only taken it once for a 28 hour flight (South Korea then Guam) and it just knocked me out.
Dunno, but if you can't fly without drugging yourself
and
'2 hours is as long as we can tolerate in cattle class.'
Why don't you just knock flying on the head?
Was it just one for the flight and one for the way back? or a few packets of the things?
I guess you'd have to show a prescription in any case as it's a drug that is frequently abused/sold.
Some people have a phobia about flying. The doctor that gave me diazepam did. Mine has eased but not gone away.
2 on the way 2 on the way back. 10 years ago now - never taken it since.
Methaqualone?
why d'you want it? If it's just sedative, then there are plenty on the market, just talk to your GP although TBH, sedated on airplane in an emergency is not something I'd want to experience.
It’s been the case for a while, someone famous nearly died on a Plane didn’t help, but also the airlines don’t want an unconscious person to move if it can be helped during an emergency.
Some of the more autocratic middle eastern countries aren't keen on you having it on you either.
It’s been the case for a while, someone famous nearly died on a Plane
It’s also do with just handing out diazepam without a ‘real’ need for them.
It’s been the case for a while, someone famous nearly died on a Plane
Context? More info?
Are we to assume they took one 5mg diaz? Multiple? Washed down with a bottle of Cristal? Other substances?
Half a story. If even true. 😀
I'm surprised they won't give them out? My Dr has no problem giving me a 5mg tablet to take before the dentist but then I do have long history of anxiety problems. They don't knock me out or make me sleepy, just take the edge off the panic and actually stop me putting off going to the dentist which is a good thing in my book.
I'd much rather go to the dentists than go on a flight,!
A quick google throws up a death in 1999 so not exactly common.
Amitriptyline ??
When i worked with the police i saw a couple of fokk who hadbeen taken off planes for their behaviour after taking diazepam
Its a nasty dangerous drug with unpredictable effects
It’s been the case for a while, someone famous nearly died on a Plane didn’t help, but also the airlines don’t want an unconscious person to move if it can be helped during an emergency.
Colleague did this, on a flight from China to UK, took his normal sedatives and went to sleep. Last minute flight checks found a fault, everyone had to move to another plane. He had to be carried off my four flight attendants, unable to walk...
Colleague did this, on a flight from China to UK, took his normal sedatives and went to sleep. Last minute flight checks found a fault, everyone had to move to another plane. He had to be carried off my four flight attendants, unable to walk…
Crikey, how much did he take? I think your only supposed to take enough to chill you out a bit, not enough to drop an elephant! I suppose that's the danger... if someones got a packet of the stuff there's nothing stopping them taking more than strictly nessesary, mix that with a few beers and...
I absolutely don't think it's something that you should use an NHS appointment for (and technically it doesn't qualify for one), but a private GP should be able to sort you out with a prescription. It'll cost you though.
Seek help to treat the phobia rather than dulling the symptoms? I believe there are courses you can take.
I've spent a fortune on hypnotherapy. The first time worked for a bit. Never had any joy with the next 2 attempts.
Diazepam just works.
Me having an "episode" on the plane would not be good for anyone.
If planes and airports were dry I could understand the supposed safety angle .
Some of the more autocratic middle eastern countries aren’t keen on you having it on you either.
Or any drugs, unless you carry them fully packaged along with your prescription showing exactly what they are. The Zapain tablets I have for arthritis would be an absolute no-no, because they have Codein in them.
In fact, I’m fairly certain that it’s advisable for any travel destinations, to avoid awkward conversations about what the anonymous little pills are you have in your carry-on.
maybe being a pilot isn't for you then
anonymous little pills are you have in your carry-on.
Stick them in a Viagra box, hiding in plain sight, lol!
I absolutely don’t think it’s something that you should use an NHS appointment for
I will have to respectively disagree eg if you have to travel for work and find it traumatising, then asking for professional help to be able to live your life is perfectly within the remit of the NHS.
Me having an “episode” on the plane would not be good for anyone.
Another ex colleague is terrified of flying and gets very drunk to manage it. He's a body builder and ex bouncer and when he has an episode you don't want to be anywhere near him as it will take half a dozen big blokes to sit on him to stop him once he's kicked off, which has happened. At one point he was barred from BA after an episode.
No one else from work would travel on the same flight as him.
@zippykona, some airlines run fear of flying courses, that is what I'd recommend.
Can I just add, "phobic states", of which a fear of flying is one, are specific contraindications to benzodiazepines in the BNF.
Generally because they tend to make the problem worse not better.
I will have to respectively disagree eg if you have to travel for work and find it traumatising, then asking for professional help to be able to live your life is perfectly within the remit of the NHS.
It I had a fear of flying I wouldn’t pick a job that involved flying.
I’m amazed people can get in a state on Diazepam, must be going way over dosage or drinking with it?
I have accidentally taken too much in the past as combined with Codeine my already crap memory was much worse, no outwardly noticeable harm done, a bit more clumsy than normal.
I guess you get used to it after a while.
It I had a fear of flying I wouldn’t pick a job that involved flying.
If a simple tablet took away the fear, why wouldn't you?
Every tablet you get prescribed has a huge list of what could happen if you take it.
I can't see why my tablets have been singled out.
some airlines run fear of flying courses, that is what I’d recommend.
That's what I was referring to rather than hypnotherapy. I saw a documentary on it on TV years ago, it's supposed to be highly effective.
I don't have a fear of flying, but then my first experiences of planes involved jumping out of them. 😁 Aside from take-off and landing it's all a bit dull really. I know turbulence can be scary for some people, but it's really just the air equivalent of potholes in the road.
Phobias usually aren't rational. Mine aren't.
I always struggle with writing off a fear of flying as a 'just' a phobia.
I know turbulence can be scary for some people, but it’s really just the air equivalent of potholes in the road.
I remember hitting some severe turbulence in the middle of a flight to the Middle East once. The cabin crew hadn't finished clearing away all the meals. At one point the plane just dropped. I saw the trays fly up in the air and then shoot across the cabin as the wing dipped down and it felt like the plane was dropping sideways. It sounded like the whole plane was screaming.
I'm sure everyone was perfectly safe but I doubt anyone was 'happy' getting on a plane for a while after that. I know I wasn't.
I'm just not sure if having a fear of getting onto a vehicle that can drop hundreds of feet with little to no warning is entirely irrational.
I wish I had the sense to ask for some diazepam for the next few flights I took. Would have made life a lot easier.
I wish I had the sense to ask for some diazepam for the next few flights I took. Would have made life a lot easier.
And conversely could have made you feel that you needed diazepam to fly, when clearly you don't.
I saw a documentary on it on TV years ago, it’s supposed to be highly effective.
Phobias usually aren’t rational
A
n d there in lies this issue. If you understand and a comfortable with all the noises and goings on, the only thing left is maybe an irrational fear which needs brain training and constant practice to remove.
I did the easyJet course. In two parts the first was Pilot and cabin crew explaining procedures, noises and process which is helpful ( ost of this and more available on YouTube these days) and then an afternoon of various relaxation / distraction / calming techniques to help your mental state. The second day was a 45 minute flight full of explanation. None of this logical explanatory worked for me becuase my fear is irrational. So for me the course was a process of elimination leaving just the irrational bit to conquer.
The most calming thing for me was a cockpit visit after last years flight across the Atlantic. There were a lot of these storms so I was shitting myself from the start but we only encountered 1 bit of light-medium turbulence, yet after the flight the pilot showed me his iPad which showed the storms and flight route which winding through them, even though I hadn’t noticed much deviation mid flight. It gave me confidence.
Would have made life a lot easier.
0r conversely made it much worse as happens sometimes and you end uo being dragged off the plane by police and chucked in jail. I have seen this happen. 50year old middle class woman. Got a broken arm and a criminal record
and you end uo being dragged off the plane by police and chucked in jail.
Seen the same thing, Woman in her late 60s going to the US, she was getting fed drink from the cabin crew and stuffing Gawd knows what down herself. She'd just buried her mum, wasn't a good flyer and wasn't coping well with 8 hours on a plane. I had to tell the crew to stop bringing her drink in the end, It all kicked off when we landed and she couldn't find her passport and started getting hysterical. Last I saw her she was being manhandled by the TSA into the "small windowless room" they have for fun-times.
I’m just not sure if having a fear of getting onto a vehicle that can drop hundreds of feet with little to no warning is entirely irrational.
It is entirely irrational if you don’t have a greater fear of getting into a motor vehicle or on a bike. Let alone ride a motorcycle!
People’s perception of risk is notoriously irrational.
Being scared of alien abduction is irrational.
You wasn't there man, you didn't see what I saw, it didn't even wear a glove.
My Dr has no problem giving me a 5mg tablet to take before the dentist but then I do have long history of anxiety problems.
Your GP is, apologies in advance, a mug!
Your dentist should be providing sedation for a treatment your dentist is doing!
I wouldn't prescribe sedatives for any hospital/dental/flying procedure with a barge-pen and barge-prescription-pad...!
DrP
I don't have a fear of flying, I have a fear of the fear of flying.
The thought of experiencing the absolute terror I feel on the ground but in the air and going to the other side of the world is definitely not something I wish on any of you happy fliers.
If the NHS won't prescribe benzodiazipines for flying, let them eat opiates.
#icanseeanissuewiththecurrentbnfguidance
I don’t have a fear of flying, I have a fear of the fear of flying
that pretty much the basis of all anxiety issues in a nutshell, not the event itself, but more the fear that you wouldn't be able to cope with it
i don't mind flying, but every now and again my braid will go into overdrive half way through a flight and i'll start thinking what if i get really anxious, i can't get off the plane, i'm trapped etc etc. a bit of breathing exercises, listen to something soothing, close eyes and have a beer does wonders
Unrelated to diazepam. But a few years ago I was on a nearly empty flight home. The flight attendants had little else to do but keep giving me free beer. I was happily singing to myself for most of the flight. I'm not sure I would have been much use in an emergency.
Try CBD oil
Well, I'm kind of with you OP.
If it's proven to work for you, it would seem pragmatic to continue prescribing in v small amounts now and then.
I assume you've been told no by a GP, so did they not suggest an alternative?
ZK - you should know by now that if you ask a mildly controversial question on here, you will eventually be unjustifiably called out and flamed (see Kramer). It's STW is it not?
Why not try Nytol. I know they are advertised as a sleep aid but it's basically an old school (sedating) antihistamine (diphenhydramine). In the past, similar drugs were prescribed to mitigate acute, situational anxiety. Ucerax was one of them.
Certainly less "controversial" than the Satan-borne benzo's!!
Hope you get sorted. Flying is shit but necessary.
If it’s proven to work for you, it would seem pragmatic to continue prescribing in v small amounts now and then.
That's part of the problem, previous experience isn't a reliable predictor of future response.
The second part is dependency, as OP says, it's the fear of flying without it is almost worse than the actual fear of flying. This is the problem with medicating for phobias rather than using other therapeutic approaches, because it potentiates the phobia.
Anxiety is absolutely awful no doubt there.
Taking the odd diazepam to get through an episode isn’t great. There are many therapies available for anxiety, yes including medication but the right kind. There’s a very good reason they are clamping down on opioid and benzodiazepines, they’re ridiculous addictive.
I always struggle with writing off a fear of flying as a ‘just’ a phobia.
...
I’m just not sure if having a fear of getting onto a vehicle that can drop hundreds of feet with little to no warning is entirely irrational.
A fear of getting onto a vehicle that can drop hundreds of feet with little to no warning when it's tens of thousands of feet in the air is wholly irrational. What's the rational explanation, you might collide with more air?
That's not to diminish it as a fear. It's compounded by the fact that most people might fly maybe twice a year so you've got Strange as a factor, we're just not conditioned to it. But those self same people will jump into a car without a second thought and that's astonishingly more dangerous than any other form of transport. In comparison, flight is the safest, you're more likely to die on a train.
Of course it's a phobia. It's a wholly understandable phobia, but it's a phobia.
you should know by now that if you ask a mildly controversial question on here, you will eventually be unjustifiably called out and flamed (see Kramer).
Don't talk wet.
Of course it’s a phobia. It’s a wholly understandable phobia, but it’s a phobia.
If you don't want to go bungee jumping because it's too scary is that a phobia? Most people would say no. Even though it's very safe (far safer than mountain biking) it's not something everyone wants to do. And those who want to do it want to do it because it is scary.
Flying is undoubtedly scary. Comparing it to a car journey is not even close. Cars move in two dimensions, you can see the road ahead, and you can see (and often know) the driver.
In a plane you are crammed into a tube with a bunch of strangers, with another bunch of strangers in charge, you can't see what's going to cause the bumps, and you may or may not have access to a window to be able to see what angle you are to the earth.
I would say that being scared of bungee jumping is not a phobia. It's a similar thing with flying.
It would be interesting to know how many have actually experienced severe turbulence. By that I mean if you weren't wearing your seat belt you would be going to the hospital.
I think suddenly experiencing seconds of freefall gives you a very different perspective on rational vs irrational fears.
Similar to the Nytol suggestion, have you tried Actifed or Avomine?
I was flying home from Singapore a few years back, the company had just pulled our Business Class travel, went into the pharmacy and asked for something to make me sleep, sold me some old school sleeping tablets over the counter. Can't remember what they were but when I googled them, most countries would of required a prescription.
Used them a few times when flying, very effective. Forgot about them in a pocket and they went through the washing machine. Probably a good thing!
I don't really want to fall asleep as Mrs Zip gets cramp on flights and I need to be able to help. All of which I can do when I'm enjoying the flight and not hiding in the toilet.
In our situation diazepam is the solution.
I viewed flying as quite exciting till the military flew me to Germany in an unpressurised transport plane through a thunderstorm. It was objectively more of a shake up than any theme park ride I've been on and the ear/headache lasted a day.
Since then I don't like flying. I know it's objectively safer than riding my bike but wil happily ride 1000km+ to avoid a flight. If I have to fly, by which I mean the fear of making Madame unhappy is greater than my fear of flying, I approach it stoically like a condemned man being sent to the gallows. No drugs, no alcohol.
Well, I eventually learnt to cope by flying back and forth most weekends to Cork or Kerry airports - the Atlantic wind means most landings are sideways and on one wheel. Still not fond of the sudden jump in clear air. But I recommend a Ryanair tea as a drug as the taste will have you praying for the end.
Flying is undoubtedly scary.
For some. I've never been scared on a plane, and yes encountered some pretty severe turbulence over the SCS (lockers opening, flight-crew knocked off their feet, all that jazz) But have piloted a plane and solo'd a glider, perhaps it makes a difference?
I would say that being scared of bungee jumping is not a phobia. It’s a similar thing with flying.
It's a fear of heights, is it not? There's a difference between not going bungee jumping because it simply doesn't appeal, and not going bungee jumping when you actually really want to but are too scared.
Flying is undoubtedly scary.
Flying is undoubtedly scary to some people. I find it mundane, sitting there in an undersized seat doing **** all for eight hours.
Comparing it to a car journey is not even close. Cars move in two dimensions, you can see the road ahead, and you can see (and often know) the driver.
In a plane you are crammed into a tube with a bunch of strangers, with another bunch of strangers in charge, you can’t see what’s going to cause the bumps, and you may or may not have access to a window to be able to see what angle you are to the earth.
Perhaps but... well, so what? "Crammed into a tube with a bunch of strangers, with another bunch of strangers in charge," you could say the same about trains or buses.
Planes mostly go in straight lines whereas cars go up and down hills, round bends, through traffic lights, round roundabouts... and you're a few feet away from a ****ton of other drivers doing the same thing whilst updating their Facebook status. By any rational measure it should be far more scary to be doing 70mph in the second lane of the M6 but it isn't because we've normalised it, we do it several times a week.
What you're describing there sounds like control issues. My partner is a terrible car passenger, she's far better sitting reading her Kindle than she is looking out of the window and screaming every three minutes because she's seen another car on the horizon.
“There’s a very good reason they are clamping down on opioid and benzodiazepines, they’re ridiculous addictive.”
Really? I took diazepam and codeine 3 and 4 times a day, for six months whilst waiting for back surgery, then stopped immediately afterwards. At no point after the pain had reduced did I think ooh, I could do with pill.
I mean the drugs were ok but beer was better.
I’m quite good at getting hooked on things normally.
I’m not doubting it’s addictive. I’m just surprised.
Safe does not automatically mean not scary. Otherwise rollercoasters wouldn't exist.
I think flying is objectively scary (I am not scared of flying but I'm saying if you were classifying things as scary or not scary flying would most likely end up on the scary end of the spectrum). You are travelling at almost the speed of sound at 30000 ft. And then you've got the random movements, noises, etc. And, as others have mentioned, the complete lack of control.
Most people simply become accostomed to it, no matter how exciting/scared they were the first time they flew.
I just think that flying is objectively scary but people have gotten used to it. In much the same way if people had to bungee jump for work or to go on holiday it would get very boring very quickly, but for some the fear would remain. And if something is objectively scary then I don't really think it can be classed as an irrational fear, no matter how safe the activity is.
Really? I took diazepam and codeine 3 and 4 times a day, for six months whilst waiting for back surgery, then stopped immediately afterwards. At no point after the pain had reduced did I think ooh, I could do with pill.
Yes really. Well done you.
Now try to find out how addiction works.
I just think that flying is objectively scary but people have gotten used to it. In much the same way if people had to bungee jump for work or to go on holiday it would get very boring very quickly, but for some the fear would remain. And if something is objectively scary then I don’t really think it can be classed as an irrational fear, no matter how safe the activity is.
I don't think anything is objectively scary. Scary is defined as causing fear, which is an emotion. Calling something objectively scary is like calling something objectively funny. Its different strokes for different folks. I can remember my first flight and I wasn't in the slightest bit scared, and I haven't been in any of the 100s of flights I've taken since. I also don't find roller coasters scary, I'm fine with a lack of control.
Used to love a blue 10 on a Sunday afternoon in the summer after a Saturday night at the sub club, a short wander to Queen’s Park from my mates flat and sink into the grass till recovery was complete then out again on sun night for optimo at the sub club.
Safe does not automatically mean not scary. Otherwise rollercoasters wouldn’t exist.
100% agreed, though I'd have gone with ghost trains or haunted houses as an example, or just scare attractions generally. I love roller coasters, but because they're thrilling rather than scary.
I think flying is objectively scary
This is where we disagree. Fear is inherently subjective. Otherwise Fred Dibnah wouldn't exist (or for that matter, pilots).
You are travelling at almost the speed of sound at 30000 ft. And then you’ve got the random movements, noises, etc. And, as others have mentioned, the complete lack of control.
You're travelling, relatively to the plane, stationary. In the air, surrounded by absolutely nothing that can harm you. When standing on the Earth we're rotating at a thousand miles an hour and the Earth is doing ~67 times that through space. The speed of sound is pocket change.
Movements and noises aren't random, they can all be explained. The lack of control is no different from standing on a train.
It's understandable, but it's not rational.
he was barred from BA
... which is ironic, given BA ain't gettin' on no plane.
(That felt like hard work)
I am anxious about flying to the point of panic attacks. I have just completed a 2 day 4 flight trip. I was difficult but i prepared myself well. Refused alcohol. Did my breathing exercises and i made it.
I also told the flight crew of my fears and they justkept a wee eye on me
There is no way i would have taken benzos. The side and after effects would not have helped changing flights and terminals etc while on my own
I am not say mtfu. I am saying mental preparation can help
all it takes is one idiot, or someone overly sensitive to such meds, to mess it up for everybody else?
come on, what kind of world are we living in/with?
GPs are saying they cant prescribe non-benzos because theyre addictive, ranitidine got taken away,castor oil?
Theyll ban peanuts next as someone was allergic
Why should we stand for that nanny state nonsense?
Isnt alcohol related stuff still the biggest cost to the nhs, days off work etc?
Mostly we cant even get an appointment these days
Theres warnings on everything, arent we allowed to think for ourselves?
It’s long been the case that drugs have been used for a purpose and then further research is done and shows that they may not be being used appropriately.
When I first started working it was standard to give dogs that were scared of fireworks a drug called ACP (Acepromazine). Seemed to work really well as they were quiet, didn’t pant, pace, vocalise or do any of the many things they would show how they were scared. However further research showed that they were fully aware of the scary fireworks and just not able to do anything about it so actually a much worse experience for them. Now no one would use it in such a situation. Doesn’t stop clients asking for it though “ it just worked so well”
In relation to flying, you are not allowed to give cats or dogs any sedatives prior to flight as it is then not possible to tell if they have become ill during the flight or are having an adverse reaction to the medication. Can see why air crew would feel the same about people
Theres warnings on everything, arent we allowed to think for ourselves?
Not when it comes to controlled drugs, no.
Theres warnings on everything, arent we allowed to think for ourselves?
Your logical fallacy is: slippery slope.
The problem with this line of for want of a better term "thinking" is that it assumes that almost half of the populace isn't of below average intelligence.
We don't need safety cut-outs on bandsaws, just don't stick your hand in it. If you do, then, well, worst case scenario is you'll only do it once more.
Isnt alcohol related stuff still the biggest cost to the nhs
No. It's getting old and all the baggage which comes with that such as dementia. Which I have to admit, credit where it's due, your approach may be a solution to.