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Not mine, but the GF's.
Turned 16yo over the summer and thinks he knows everything. Bright kiddy - got an apprenticeship so has a little money coming in.
Unruly. Doesn't do as he's told. Rides a noisy motorbike. Drinks. Smokes. Swears. Shouts. Throws tantrums. Smashes the place up when he doesn't get his way. Last weekend meant that because of his (and a friend's) drinking session my GF's house was burgled and her keys/purse/phone/car were stolen. And giggled while the police were there.
Just doesn't care about the consequences of his actions, or who he upsets.
He's now taken to leaving the house late at night and coming home in the small hours. No idea what he's up to. GF worries herself sick and can't sleep till he returns.
She is at the end of her tether. There is nothing I can do - I have no jurisdiction. What to do? Can she legally throw him out?
Sensible ideas/help much appreciated.
Can she legally throw him out?
Yes.
But then he would be "out" all the time.
So she would never get any sleep ??
He is 16 with a job of course he can be thrown out
Whether tough love is the solution I dont know but having a party, getting my stuff stolen and laughing would be the point at which my tether broke...well certainly if it was anyone but my own child.
My own child probably do the same as that is some way from the line of acceptable.
Yes.But then he would be "out" all the time.
So she would never get any sleep ??
This is the thing. I think she needs him to be someone else's problem.
There was a long running thread on here which a quick search hasn't found about this.
I think the upshot was that 'it's a bit of a grey area' legally what your responsibilities as a parent are.
Have a more detailed search - it was worth a read if only to see that you're not alone and there were practical suggestions as to what to do as well as emotional support.
He is a child and ur problem to he is 18. If u do throw him out expect a visit from social services.
but having a party, getting my stuff stolen
Just the two of them. Drinking in his room. We heard them running to the WC/slamming doors all night to be sick. The friend (oxygen thief) in his drunken state decides to leave the house to see some other friends. Returns at 3/4am and leaves the front door unlocked...
Follow him one night, find out what he is up to. then have a word with the local police if he is pushing the bounds of legality and see if they can scare him a little.
If not, kick him out.
What about speaking to his boss...he probably behaves himself at work as if he talks back he's more likely to get thumped.
His boss might say "not my problem", or he might be willing to have a 'man to man' chat with him.
But he might come home looking for revenge for you involving his boss.
On a serious note explain to him you cannot allow this situation to continue.
Tell him to get his own place.
Explain to your gf that finding a place of his own might not be such a bad thing (it did me no harm at that age and I went on to get a degree).
He needs to grow up quickly and with mum still holding the reins he will forever be a horrible teenager.
Unruly. Doesn't do as he's told. Rides a noisy motorbike. Drinks. Smokes. Swears. Shouts. Throws tantrums. Smashes the place up when he doesn't get his way.
Seems typical of a lot of teenagers nowadays as always, he needs to be chucked out, but then he want get HB, so a hostel type place.
Parents need to crack down on any mis behaviour strongly,you dont let a dog bite or disobey you, so why should a kid.
then have a word with the local police
He's had plenty of brushes with the law before. Picked up twice for drunk and disorderly. At age 11.
Sounds like he's taking what he can while he can.
I had a similar issue with a teenage lad that belonged to my ex and we sent him to live with his dad where things weren't quite as cushy as having mommy look after him and he soon realised how much he'd been taking the mick.
His mom and you sitting him down and advising him where he's going wrong is certainly the first point, he might think it's fine to behave how he is.
If you're serious about chucking him out speak to social services, they'll talk you through the options.
Cor blimey, I don't envy either of you. 🙁 I'm not a parent so I've no experience, but from where I'm sitting, I'd be thinking; with your GF, get him sober, get him alone, sit him down and let him know the score. He cannot continue living like he does - he either follows a line of reasonable behaviour, or he finds his own home. It's not a matter of kicking him out, not at this stage, but he's gotta know he WILL be out (and bloody soon) if he don't get his sh!t together.
**** some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a **** up its 100% ur fault.
Parents need to crack down on any mis behaviour strongly,you dont let a dog bite or disobey you, so why should a kid.
He's had plenty of brushes with the law before. Picked up twice for drunk and disorderly. At age 11.
Sounds like that boat may already have sailed 😉
Seriously though. Aren't all 16 year olds like that. Looking at the behaviour you've described, that is a pretty damn accurate of me at 16, and most of my mates, apart from the ones who were far far worse
Most of us grew out of it by our late 20's
Beat the shit out of him and move abroad
If you're serious about chucking him out speak to social services, they'll talk you through the options.
Thought that was the case. Thanks.
A sit-down talk won't get us very far, but it's worth a shot. His behaviour is totally unacceptable. She's tried many times to make him see sense and accept some responsibility. But he just doesn't care.
Don't hold back 3dvgirl.
So it's the parents fault that murderers, rapists, pedophiles, Hiltler, etc, etc, etc did what they did.
That's a poor argument.
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
Thanks for that valuable input. I suspect you may have first-hand experience of being a nightmare 16yo. You may still be one judging by your typing.
And - just to negate your argument entirely - she is an SEN (special education needs) teacher in a rough-ass inner-city academy. Dealing with difficult teenagers and their 'challenging' behaviour is what she does for a living. And she's very good at it.
some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a **** up its 100% ur fault.
Thanks for settling the age old nature /nurture debate you should publish that 😕
there comes a time when any child makes their own choices and lives with the consequences of them 16 and working is approaching that age IMHO
I dont think tolerating this behaviour and it having no consequences is the best solution and i dont think either choice is brilliant.
That's a poor argument.
its poor to call that an argument but I feel one coming 😉
Enroll him in the army.
I think he needs to choose it but it is true they have along and fine tradition in drinking and loutish behaviour so he may fit in nicely 😈
sell him to the Scientologists?
Picked up twice for drunk and disorderly. At age 11
And this is the point when your girlfriend should have intervened. It's a damn site easier to turnaround an 11 y/o rather than 16. He's got away with it for years now and it is acceptable behavior in his eyes. The fact that he's smirking whilst the police are dealing with a break in speaks volumes.
Also he's getting the booze illegally. How? Find out where and dob them in. The authorities would be interested in an easy kill like selling to underage kids.
From D&D at 11 to having an apprenticeship at 16. Kicking him out would Shirley send him down the right path...
Gets him out the way so you can rut his mum anyway.
Banjo the ****er. Flex-cuff him, in the boot of the car, up on the moors. Strip him naked. Leave him. Tell him to make his own way home.
And whoever said "all 16 year olds are like this" - no they aren't. I certainly never was, and most of my peers never were. And neither are their kids. But then, we are of a generation where if we behaved like this we got in the sh!t with the law, and in even more sh!t from our (non-absent) fathers.
D&D twice at 11 ...
Seems like his mum and dad have not been responsible for his upbringing TBH - or stupid/ soft.
I am not sure that anything you can do will change him, unless he want to. But you and GF need to sit him down and thave the tough love talk.
Outline to him what will be tolerated and won't, and spell it out very clearly.
And with repercussion that you will both accept.
Where is his father is all of this?
PS - you do realise quite a lot of this subversive behaviousr is to get inbetween you and his mum?
Did the parents split up when he was 11?
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
In some cases I'll agree with you. As an ex youth worker I've seen plenty of those.
However, there are also cases where kids have had perfectly good upbringings and it's other influences, such as peer group, getting in with the wrong crowd etc, and previously good kids go off the rails. My younger brother did. To be honest, I think that his upbringing was a bit too permissive, and that my dad and stepmum didn't nip stuff in the bud early enough, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Either way, he is now 18 but hasn't lived at home for 2 years because he was a danger to his mother and sister (violence, stealing, and drug dealer mates coming round the house). Social services (who became involved when the criminal activity started) agreed that he needed to live away from the family home. He was re-housed in supported housing. He is doing better now, but sadly only after a spell in a YOI.
If your gf can't cope and she feels she is in danger from his behaviour, she needs to contact social services. Or perhaps the NSPCC would help with advice - at the end of the day she will be concerned that she can't protect her son.
And this is the point when your girlfriend should have intervened. It's a damn site easier to turnaround an 11 y/o rather than 16.[b] He's got away with it for years now and[/b] it is acceptable behavior in his eyes. The fact that he's smirking whilst the police are dealing with a break in speaks volumes.
This is what's wrong with asking for advice on the internet. How do you know 'he's got away with it'? How do you know intervening measures have not been tried for the last 5 years? Were you hiding in the cupboard? Are you intimately familiar with all that has gone on? Sanctimonious drivel based upon assumptions does not help anyone.
Tough position OP. Even more so from your position with less bonds to this kid and concerns watching what it is doing to his mother. Sadly there is likely to be no win position from here for anyone.
Classy fourbanger,classy. It is obviously chosen behaviour,acting like that in front of/towards his tradesman would subject him to the discipline of the steel toe-cap boot.As JY said, 16 and working is getting to the point of moving him on. There is also how fit for work he is if out all night,which may have implications for him. He obviously likes having money;how about pointing out how he will struggle to buy nice clothes/partee all night if he has to buy food/electric/rent etc? A straight get out is perhaps a bit black and white. As a teacher,your best bet with a teenager is to get him to think showing a bit of respect for you two is his idea(and don't ever mention that word to him) Good Luck.
See a shrink.
Lay down the rules.
Enforce punishment and do not back down!
Be a parent and use your brain.
Ask him what is going on and listen.
Call Jeremy Kyle or Dr Phil.
Parents support group?
My ex's sister was like that, a complete anomaly in the family, totally unruly and could not be reasoned with.
They bought her a ticket to Australia and it was the making of her, had a chance to control her own destiny and then slowly took control of her life. I think things were just too easy back home and the sleepness nights were killing the rest of the family.
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
Can we blame your parents for your inability to spell or form coherent sentences?
My ex's sister was like that, a complete anomaly in the family, totally unruly and could not be reasoned with.They bought her a ticket to Australia and it was the making of her, had a chance to control her own destiny and then slowly took control of her life. I think things were just too easy back home and the sleepness nights were killing the rest of the family.
A tad drastic ...
How did Australia feel about it - or was it part of the Victorian enforcedc settlement of the New Lands?
this thread might help:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16774749
she is an SEN (special education needs) teacher in a rough-ass inner-city academy. Dealing with difficult teenagers and their 'challenging' behaviour is what she does for a living. And she's very good at it.
Is the kid in any way resentful of mum's job? Acting up like her "clients" would be a good way to get her attention. To be fair it does sound like it's gone beyond that though.
Another possibility is the the kid is resentful of the op.
Maybe doesn't like him so makes no effort.
He knows that this upsets mum which in turn angers op.
This is a possible line you should try and go down with him to see if anything can be done.
Fix the motorbike together, go to a football match etc.
Try and gain his trust and maybe it will be better.
A sit-down talk won't get us very far, but it's worth a shot.
Yeah, I totally get you - but as much as anything, it's about laying out the guidelines so that he can't say "what you kicking me out for?" You can tell him, we're kicking you out because that's what we told you would happen if you stepped over these lines we laid out for you. I guess it's almost as much about fomralising it for yourself and your GF, as much as having any expectation that it'll turn him around. Still, we live in hope...
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
You probably could have worded that better, but yes, that is my understanding too. Although, actually it's the influences the child had before (IIRC) 7 years old that mainly shape them, so the OP might not have been around them.
G/f with ****ed up kids? I'd move on, life is too short.
When I met my current and her nipper, we quickly established that (what with me being a reasonable chap), my word was the law as much as hers was. Nipper eventually asked me to be their 'real dad', and even changed surname to match mine (bought a lump to my throat).
cases where kids have had perfectly good upbringings and it's other influences, such as peer group, getting in with the wrong crowd etc, and previously good kids go off the rails.
^^ This. It's an interesting one the nurture/nature thing.
EG: I am a fine, upstanding member of the community 😉 Helps old ladies across the street kinda thing. Don't smoke, hardly drink. University, goodish job then property ladder. And never had so much as a parking ticket.
My only sibling is and ex-heroin addict and recovering alcoholic and has been all her life... since she moved out at 16. Never done a day's work in her life. Has lived rough and begged on the streets (through choice).
Same parents, same genetics, same upbringing, different peers, different priorities.
Another possibility is the the kid is resentful of the op.
Don't think that's the case. We get on well.
Fix the motorbike together, go to a football match etc.
We do all sorts of stuff together. Have even taken him - and his bro - mountainbiking. 🙂
Another possibility is the the kid is resentful of the op.
Maybe doesn't like him so makes no effort.
He knows that this upsets mum which in turn angers op.
You got all this from them saying nothing about this?
The behaviour seems to be drunken loutishness in general rather than anything directed at the OP.
Just as a related story we had neighbours at my old house that had a son like this - into his late teens early 20's though.
They kicked him out and after a while went on holiday (2 parents and non-tearaway daughter), we watched him get up on the roof, remove tiles and get into the house through the roof/loft causing christ knows how much damage on the way. Nice lad.
I am no parent and was a pretty well behaved kid, so I don't have anything very useful to add to this debate, sorry, hope he sees sense sometime soon, but it sounds like some time inside is his next option.
alcol70 - my oldest was a bit of a handful & had me pulling my hair out at that age, packed all his stuff in my car & threatened him with moving out on one occasion, seemed to do the trick & with time did improve to the extent of being a perfectly good & useful member of society, albeit maybe not achieving his full potential, his best mate was taken "on holiday" to the states & endured 18 months of boot camp which was the making of him, so just to reassure you that there is light at the end of the tunnel & you are without doubt experiencing the worst of the worst at the moment. good luck
-as the for the bad parenting comment, jeez H christ
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
My parents were nothing short of perfect and I still wobbled when I was 16. Drinking, smoking, doing drugs and getting the police involved. It had nowt to do with my parenting and more to do with so called mates, my environment and my love for drink, drugs and smoke. My folks were brilliant and still are. I could kick myself for being such a tosser but that's life.
My mates brother was like this - 3rd of 4 sons and was totally off the rails. Came from a reasonably well off family, nice house, good values.
He eventually moved out with his mates and everyone prophisised doom, except it was the making of him, coming home to no clean clothes, no food, no comfy sofa etc - so got his shit together and then got a place a uni. They all need to find [b]their own place[/b] in the world.
You got all this from them saying nothing about this?
The behaviour seems to be drunken loutishness in general rather than anything directed at the OP.
that is just as much an assumption as the one you have castigated the poster for !! 😕
My comment re jealously, which mirror the comment you disagree with come from actually having lived with teenage step kids
How about yours ? 
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
What a load of tosh. You clearly don't have kids.
Does his father have any involvement in his upbringing? I know this sounds quaint but I firmly believe that boys need a father figure.
What a load of tosh. You clearly don't have kids.Does his father have any involvement in his upbringing? I know this sounds quaint but I firmly believe that boys need a father figure.
The irony is strong.
I personally think that kids who are bad/trouble are so because the parents have let them be. however I may be wrong.
and all 16yr olds are not the same, my son rather stupidly fathered a child at 16, but he never was or ever has been a minutes trouble, and his sister is 16 now and she also has never brought us any trouble/problems.
a bad/unruly 16yr old lad needs putting in his place, imho.
not by violence, by some other means. a family friend who he looks up to maybe, or his boss to have a word with him, or to get the police involved to give him a proper strong talking to.
It's coming across as if its you and your girlfriend against the boy. Be there for him, include him in conversations, talk and listen. Get him back on side and act as equals in the family.
Introduce a very high rate of housekeeping, tell him that he needs to pay it to live with you, but if he doesn't mess around and behaves himself you'll reduce it month on month?
Hit him in the pocket. He might understand that?
Sounds to me that there has been a lack of a father figure or at least a strong male mentor. Getting drunk and disorderly at 11 could have been a cry for help or at least a massive warning sign that things are not right. You are going to have to try and engage with the kid and try and steer him down the right path. Little steps at this stage. Set some boundaries, practice what you preach. Does he ride or have any interest in bikes, could you get him to do a bit of all mountain or downhill gnarry stuff that might appeal to a sixteen yr old!
Just threatening to throw him out won't end well, blood is thicker than water.
Picked up twice for drunk and disorderly. At age 11.
How the hell does a kid that age get let out to get pissed? Didnt your Gf have any idea what he was doing ? Once is bad enough to be on lock down ,twice shouldnt happen !
Army is where you shod be pushing him
I cannot decide if the army calls are heartfelt or trolling
cases where kids have had perfectly good upbringings and it's other influences, such as peer group, getting in with the wrong crowd etc, and previously good kids go off the rails.
That was the case with the Bulger murder. A good friend taught one of the killers in a secure unit, and he was as nice as pie, middle class background, loving parents, academic, but just lead astray by his phsyco best mate. Didn't fit in at all locked up with genuine teenage phsycos and other high risk patients.
Spare the rod and spoil the child !!!
So take him fishing !
To John O Groats praps !
He may like it and want to stay !
* some people on this thred make me want to puke, if ur child is a * up its 100% ur fault.
more sense in this than people are giving credit for. Kid is the parents responsibility. Having said that 100% might be stretching it a bit.
My parents were nothing short of perfect and I still wobbled when I was 16. Drinking, smoking, doing drugs and getting the police involved. It had nowt to do with my parenting and more to do with so called mates, my environment and my love for drink, drugs and smoke. My folks were brilliant and still are. I could kick myself for being such a tosser but that's life.
That'll be me as well then.
If that was me at 16 i'd have been battered from one room of the house to the other, then when my dad came back off the fishing boats he'd have battered me again, sounds like he's been getting away with being a little arse for years so he obviously knows no better way to behave.
Dunno what you can do really?, ship him off to a family friend abroad somewhere to remove him from his peer group?, or totally 100% ignore him till he grows up and starts accepting responsibility.
And - just to negate your argument entirely - she is an SEN (special education needs) teacher in a rough-ass inner-city academy. Dealing with difficult teenagers and their 'challenging' behaviour is what she does for a living. And she's very good at it.
This totally means nothing at all, this is mixing up your job with parenthood. It's like saying all midwives have perfect births. Adopting her work mindset to her own child might be part of the problem, but I'm no expert, then this isn't an experts forum.
A few things stick out. In two pages, unless I've missed it I can't see any evidence of anyone actually doing anything over what a five year period?
He has a job. well that's a good thing which says he isn't all that bad. He has bought a motorbike. Just little things that point to him not being a loser.
The job and motorbike are two very little positive things than can be built upon.
Just going back to your GF's job. A parent applying their work place skills to their own child can seem very patronising, and seriously backfire.
But the missing bit from 'being allowed to drink at 11' until now?
Just a thought. can you ban alcohol in the house? he is under age after all. Try and appeal to his good side. Then perhaps counter with something like an offer to go to the Motorbike show?
Any idea who has been buying all his booze over the years?
Tough love all the way. My recommendation, based on past experience, pack all his stuff up in boxes and bags and set outside the front door. Change the locks. Write a very honest and frank letter to him detailing why the decision has been made, express your concerns about him and leave the door open to come back if he wants to moderate his behaviour and start acting like an adult (which he technically is).
It will be a cold bucket of water in the face but without the door being slammed totally on future help.
Warning that this will happen has to come first though. I am sure you already have but explain that this is what you are thinking of doing and give him 2 weeks to change his behaviour.
[i]'He eventually moved out with his mates and everyone prophisised doom, except it was the making of him, coming home to no clean clothes, no food, no comfy sofa etc - so got his shit together and then got a place a uni. They all need to find their own place in the world.'[/i]
As a parent of a 9 year old and a 7 year old, I'm constantly looking forward at this very time of development.
I think the above quote is a round-about way of saying they need to learn accountability and responsibility for themselves and others.
The learning mechanism is different for all, but theres nothing like having the rug pulled on your subsidised (financially and domestically) lifestyle to make you have a look at yourself and how you're living. Personally, I'd hope to never get to that stage due to a longer term approach of you know, parenting, by who knows what will happen.
As a parent, you're in the position to exert the most effect on this learning and give as many opportunities as required. Whilst I will be the first to admit that the nature of a child will make this easier or harder to acheive, I'm with the failure of parenting bridgade. Failure to be objective about the problem, failure to exert the right influences, failure to adopt the right strategy and deploy the correct skills, failure to seek help.
Its a parents responsibility IMO. Bleating on about how nothing works is just saying 'I haven't found the correct approach' or shows you can't be bothered.
IMO plenty of comments on this thread show people still willing to stand away from the ownership of their responsibilities and blame something/someone else for their woes. Seems to be a common theme in our culture these days for many different things, not just parenting - product of the nanny state perhaps?
I should get some nice cosy heat on a chilly Autumn morning for this one...
As a parent, you're in the position to exert the most effect on this learning and give as many opportunities as required. Whilst I will be the first to admit that the nature of a child will make this easier or harder to acheive, I'm with the [b]failure[/b] of parenting bridgade. [b]Failure[/b] to be objective about the problem, [b]failure[/b] to exert the right influences, [b]failure[/b] to adopt the right strategy and deploy the correct skills, [b]failure[/b] to seek help.Its a parents responsibility IMO. Bleating on about how nothing works is just saying 'I haven't found the correct approach' or shows you can't be bothered.
I think there is truth in what you are saying, it might just be the way it reads or how my 'conditioned' ear hears it that rankles. 'Failure' to me these days is intimately connected to the word 'blame'. When I hear one I sense the other's presence. This in my opinion is wrong. You are of course right - in this case whatever has been tried, whatever help has been sort has not worked (or 'failed'); the child is not behaving as society and their parents see appropriate or acceptable. But that is not to say attention has not been there or help sort. It's just not worked.
Parenting is such an emotive issue and it is so easy for parents of 'successful' and 'good' children who have in all honesty had an easy ride as procreators to castigate the efforts of other parents who could have been much better parents and have had to put in so much more time/energy/imagination but are just dealing with a much more difficult situation.
What I'm saying in a roundabout way is a difficult child does not always equal bad parenting and the word failure is now too intimately associated with blame to be easily tossed around without truly knowing the facts.
You don't say a single word there that I disagree with.
You're totally right about parents that had an easy ride thinking that their methods were responsible for the ride, and this is why there will always be the nature/nuture argument.
The truth is that it is both. I've seen it in my kids. You can't change nature (much) IMO, so you have to work with nurture, and there are multiple and varied approaches that have to be adapted to parenting the type of child that nature gave you. Whether you get it right is down to your effort and competence.
Oxford Online dictionary:
BLAME:
feel or declare that (someone or something) is responsible for a fault or wrong:
the inquiry blamed the train driver for the accident
(blame something on) assign the responsibility for a bad or unfortunate situation or phenomenon to (someone or something
FAILURE:
1 lack of success:
an economic policy that is doomed to failure
[count noun] an unsuccessful person or thing:
bad weather had resulted in crop failures
2the neglect or omission of expected or required action:
their failure to comply with the basic rules
[count noun] a lack or deficiency of a desirable quality:
a failure of imagination
3the action or state of not functioning:
symptoms of heart failure
[count noun]:
a chance engine failure
[count noun] a sudden cessation of power:
a sudden power failure
[count noun] the collapse of a business:
business failures rose by 53%
Hooray for word-sounds meaning different things! Hooray for the English language!
Oldgit.
but I'm no expert, then this isn't an experts forum.
Of course not. However, I consider this place to be made up of largely my peers who may have been through a similar experience, and could offer grass-roots, first hand advice.
With all due respect, I asked for help and advice with a tricky situation. Not your ill-informed opinion as to where my GF 'went wrong' for the last seven years.
I'd like to see YOU bring up four children on your own, with or without a background in youth-work.
Thought I was being quite positive 😐 I think you've crossed posts as I've not criticized your GF at all.
Happy to discuss in personal message, having been there and got though it. Though with help from our GP, schools and a psychologist. We're still on tenterhooks though.
Dickyboy when we got our son out I just ended up being worried sick, so that period didn't last that long. It did make a minor improvement in things though.
We got to the bottom of the cause of the problem in the end, I don't know if all problem kids are a problem due to a cause though?