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An issue seems to be whenever they appear on such shows people like you see them & go (quite rightly) how useless they would be in power.
What the main parties need to do is start cutting these clips together & sharing them on social media so the people who see Reform's videos of the main parties 'being dumb/wrong' start to see the truth of the grifter.
Tice was apparently supposed to be at Glasto this year debating one of the candidates for the Green Party leadership. Strangley enough he has pulled out (shame Tice's parents didn't... love a cheap shot, that's what his mum said, etc..)
Side note regarding Reform. They are all about democracy, ask them when the next Reform leadership election will be hold, or how Farage came to power & see if any pennies drop.
Lets hope Starmer solves the immigration problem, because it is all reform has
They're coming up to Scotland June i think. Hope it's Glasgow so I can go and heckle them, but it will be wall to wall Rangers supporters, and they'll probably act like reform blackshirts(or should that be 'blueshirts')
Lets hope Starmer solves the immigration problem, because it is all reform has
From the other thread :
the government positioning itself as ‘tough’ on immigration and asylum will not have the intended effect of sidelining the far-right. We believe that accepting their core premise – the main problem facing the country is immigrants – only validates them. Attempting to outbid them with deportations and visa denials will always fall short. They will not be satisfied with falling net migration numbers. They will never be satisfied
And it isn't all that Reform has. Reform's trump card is that they are untested and not discredited by having been in government, unlike the Tories, Labour,. and the LibDems. For many voters that is sufficient reason to give them a punt.
Attempting to outbid them with deportations and visa denials will always fall short.
Good. I dont want people to be deported, unless they fail the process. I just don't want people drown while trying to make the perilous journey across the channel
I did notice in the Torygraph, that a conservative think tank now believes people should be able to register their case in France.
D'oh, ya think 🙄
In truth, the powers that be realize the importance of immigration, so will probably act to 'stop the boats' and thus placate the hard of thinking
In truth, the powers that be realize the importance of immigration
There is no indication that Starmer realises the importance of immigration, other than just like many of his predecessors as a convenient excuse for his own failure, and it is wishful thinking to believe that he does. It's just the same as the maga crowd believing Trump is playing 4d chess, sometimes we just have to accept the evidence we see with our own eyes, rather than continuing to believe in what we hope to see.
And it isn't all that Reform has. Reform's trump card is that they are untested and not discredited by having been in government, unlike the Tories, Labour,. and the LibDems. For many voters that is sufficient reason to give them a punt.
Despite the fact that the spending promises they’ve made already have been costed at £200 billion a year+. And they say they’re going to do that while also cutting everyone’s tax so you won’t pay anything on the first 20,000 of earnings.
It’s Brexit all over again. Promise everyone the moon on a stick, which you know full well is completely impossible to deliver, but will deliver you your own personal agenda
Lets hope Starmer solves the immigration problem, because it is all reform has
Aside from he cant and it isnt.
It is what they are blaming all the failings built up over the years on but its not the problem. As such he will never be able to "solve" it since the underlying problems will still exist and they could just claim he is fudging the numbers and so forth.
Despite the fact that the spending promises they’ve made already have been costed at £200 billion a year+. And they say they’re going to do that while also cutting everyone’s tax so you won’t pay anything on the first 20,000 of earnings.
It’s Brexit all over again. Promise everyone the moon on a stick, which you know full well is completely impossible to deliver, but will deliver you your own personal agenda
You can't blame people for chancing a Reform vote though can you as Starmer has just given it to them. Do you still see him as the sensible grown up or have you now realised you got him wrong?
You can't blame people for chancing a Reform vote though can you...
I think you can now TBH, as noted above never having held political office means the Kippers have never been in a position to "fail" so are insulated from one flavour of criticism, but that isn't actually evidence of competence. An election win would be an utter curse for Nigel, and he knows it.
It's arguably that Johnson's government was a "try something different" move from the electorate, and that didn't really play out in their favour did it? Elect a clown on a single issue and you end up living in a circus.
Farrage's real power is influence over the current discourse, despite leading a tiny "party" and almost exclusively representing the interests of big-money bigots, he keeps managing to drag mainstream political discussion and seemingly the sitting government onto his own grubby, racist little patch, knowing his core is small, but won't be baited by Labour the Tories or anyone else now... All it does is alienate normal people...
SKS should just stop trying to play that dog whistle, everyone else has tried since Bojo and the lesson seems to be you'll never out Farrage, Farrage and it's not really worth the effort.
It's arguably that Johnson's government was a "try something different" move from the electorate, and that didn't really play out in their favour did it?
So they will try someone else.
"You have to go back to 2015 for the last time the British electorate rewarded the status quo. Since then they have voted for Brexit and Boris Johnson, and come close to backing Jeremy Corbyn in 2017. At the last election it was enough for Sir Keir Starmer simply to put the word “change” on the front of his manifesto and leave the details to voters’ imagination. For a decade, the country has been consistent that things cannot go on as they are"
https://archive.is/2025.05.02-093348/https://www.ft.com/content/b8efadcb-c744-4fec-ae53-74b807147dcc
You can't blame people for chancing a Reform vote though can you...
You can when the maths doesn't add up. In fact, when its pure fantasy. If you're buying into someone promising massive tax cuts, while also spending an additional 200 billion more a year on public services, then you probably shouldn't be allowed out unacompanied and you certainly shouldn't be voting.
But we are where we are, where the same chunk (52%?) of the electorate are so lacking in critical thinking that they bought this load of old bollocks from the same bloke, which he conveniently never, ever mentions any more...
TBH that was Boris, and Nige did distance himself the day after that on Telly,which was a good start to Brexit :-).
I’m pretty sure that this morning we’ll be hearing from Nige about his sudden concern for the fishermen he hasn’t given a second thought to for years, to accompany the steelworkers he was apparently so bothered about a few weeks ago who he’s also instantly forgotten about
I’m pretty sure that this morning we’ll be hearing from Nige about his sudden concern for the fishermen he hasn’t given a second thought to for years, to accompany the steelworkers he was apparently so bothered about a few weeks ago who he’s also instantly forgotten about
Are those the same fishermen that he ignored for all those years by not turning up to represent them when he sat on the EU Fisheries Committee?
That would give any sensible reporter/commentator an enormous stick to beat him with. And I'd pay good money to watch.
Unsurprisingly you called it right, the frog faced c### has called it a disaster for the uk fishing industry. Shame you did f### all about it when you actually should have been there
You can't blame people for chancing a Reform vote though can you as Starmer has just given it to them. Do you still see him as the sensible grown up or have you now realised you got him wrong?
So you still think you're right...
Did you call into James O'Brien this morning, as "Richard"?
Brexiteer calls James O’Brien ‘to see how many times he’d be interrupted’ | LBC
Yep, I am still right. People will vote Reform because nothing will have changed for them after 5 years of a Starmer government.
Did you call into James O'Brien this morning
As fun as it is listening to O'Brien being his normal unpleasant self, personally I would be congratulating someone for admitting they are capable of knowing the answer themselves and trying to persuade them why brexit is bad but nevermind.
This article from the guardian is far more insightful. Note how since Starmer and co refuse to address the lies about brexit there is no counternarrative to the claims of betrayal which lines things up nicely for Farage to pretend he didnt screw people over.
Listening to an apoplectic, ranting Dickie Tyce talking utter nonsense about 'surrender on steroids' on Five Live is hilrious. He sounds absolutely unhinged! But then most gammons do. I'm sure that the usual angry, red-faced men will be believing every word of it and be equally as combustable
Yep, I am still right. People will vote Reform because nothing will have changed for them after 5 years of a Starmer government.
If you have a leak in the roof of your house, you don't burn it to the ground and then wonder whay you have no house left, you look at the best way of fixing the roof.
Hopefully. lol
If you have a leak in the roof of your house, you don't burn it to the ground and then wonder whay you have no house left, you look at the best way of fixing the roof.
If you can't find a good reliable roofer, or they've absolutly ballsed it up previously, you might think '**** it' and give one of those 'jack of all trades, master of none' handymen a go.
And that is an absolute lottery in terms of a positive outcome, likely not good and your roof caves in. Sometimes lessons have to be learnt the hard way.
you might think '**** it' and give one of those 'jack of all trades, master of none' handymen a go.
Especially if you can see lots and lots of positive press about that handyman.
After all it isnt their fault that leak happened in the first place. Ok they recommended you fix that slightly shonky tile by using a trebuchet to launch concrete at it but it wasnt them who actually used the trebuchet. That was the other bunch using a ballista so clearly it was a dodgy implementation vs crap general idea.
TBH isn’t it more akin to putting the arsonists in charge of rebuilding your house that they already burnt down.
If you have a leak in the roof of your house, you don't burn it to the ground and then wonder whay you have no house left, you look at the best way of fixing the roof.
Yep and they don't see Starmer's Labour government as the best way to fix it and I would agree with them based on the fact they are not really trying to. A vote for Farage is another 'what have I got to lose' vote with a bit of anti immigration/racism thrown in.
Yes, the likes of us can sit back and talk about least worst options and so on but that is not something a lot of people have the time for.
Yes, the likes of us can sit back and talk about least worst options and so on but that is not something a lot of people have the time for.
So they're going to choose the people who gave them the shit advice in the first place?
Deserve all they get - just like when they voted for Johnson in 2019 - voted to be made poorer and boy did it work.
They're doubling down again, putting everything on 'Black'.
No wonder the gambling companies specifically aim at this cohort, they always think there's a win just around the corner, if they just 'believe' one more time...
So they're going to choose the people who gave them the shit advice in the first place?
That was almost 10 years ago, so yes they are.
If you have a leak in the roof of your house, you don't burn it to the ground and then wonder whay you have no house left, you look at the best way of fixing the roof.
It also doesn't help when Starmer builders Ltd, come and take your roof off, then leave you without a roof because rich people now need something and are more important so we might get round to you in 10 years or so, so stop whining and suck it up.
Then when dodgy Farage comes round with some vague promises you take the risk, because winters coming and no one else is offering **** all.
It also doesn't help when Starmer builders Ltd, come and take your roof off, then leave you without a roof because rich people now need something and are more important so we might get round to you in 10 years or so, so stop whining and suck it up.
What exactly are you talking about - what are they giving to "rich people"?
We are not in a financial crisis, we are in a financial equality crisis, the UK has the wealth and resources to make life much much better, it is a failure of political will to make the necessary changes. That failure is because our leaders serve the oligarchy ahead of the nation.
Farage and Boris will always be able to sell lies, if labour fail to address the real issues.
Fun to see Reform councillors in Cornwall not understanding how democracy works - even more fun in the comments on the local FB groups - https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/reforms-first-cornwall-council-meeting-10199349
It is amazing that Farage isn't being held to account more by the media. This week saw the biggest Brexit related policy change since Brexit itself, and now that he is finally a sitting MP it was Farage's big moment to use his voice in Parliament, his chance to challenge the government, to stand-up for the downtrodden, to sell the Reform narrative, his Churchillian moment! But where was he? On holiday - in France. Couldn't possibly jump on Eurostar back to London.
Apparently 17 weeks of recess isn't enough time to go away, he also needs to go on holiday during term time.
Rather than posting up yet more stories how about just answer my question?
Listening to the Rest is Politics pod earlier and Alastair Campbell had a good observation about media attitude to Farage. He said their failing is that they treat him like a commentator rather than an elected politician. It explains a lot about how he gets away with so much incompetence, lack of actual policy and disproportionately high air time.
Listening to the Rest is Politics pod earlier and Alastair Campbell had a good observation about media attitude to Farage. He said their failing is that they treat him like a commentator rather than an elected politician. It explains a lot about how he gets away with so much incompetence, lack of actual policy and disproportionately high air time.
That's a very good point.
Maybe there would be a bit more balance in the media if Campbell and Blair hadn't been so eager to cut the BBC's balls off after the sexed up dossier and the death of Dr Kelly.
MSP still posting I see, yet not prepared to respond to questions...
I answered your question already, its not my fault your too dim to grasp the answer.
Maybe there would be a bit more balance in the media if Campbell and Blair hadn't been so eager to cut the BBC's balls off after the sexed up dossier and the death of Dr Kelly.
Yes, I think Campbell talks a lot of sense nowadays but there's always that nagging feeling that he is responsible for many of the media related ills that plague us today.
MSP still posting I see, yet not prepared to respond to questions...
To be fair MSP even posted a link to a Guardian article which answers your question in some detail. Did you read it?
I answered your question already, its not my fault your too dim to grasp the answer.
YOU'RE
#****wit.
To be fair MSP even posted a link to a Guardian article which answers your question in some detail. Did you read it?
Ok Ernie, care to highlight where in the article it details what Labour is actually GIVING to these "rich people"?
Ok Ernie, care to highlight where in the article it details what Labour is actually GIVING to these "rich people"?
It doesn't state it explicity, but by doing nothing Labour are actively encouraging the status quo & there fore not stopping the money funneling up.
It doesn't state it explicity, but by doing nothing Labour are actively encouraging the status quo & there fore not stopping the money funneling up.
Agree, it doesn't answer the question at all.
So Labour inherited the highest tax burden since the war, what taxes do YOU want raising?
Ok Ernie, care to highlight where in the article it details what Labour is actually GIVING to these "rich people"?
The analogy was that Starmer isn't helping the poor because he is to busy protecting the wealthy, "giving to the rich" is your own words not mine, the article quite plainly and obviously supports up the analogy. More so than the "burning down the house" analogy, unless you think the UK no longer exists after the brexit vote?
Agree, it doesn't answer the question at all.
He didn't state that it doesn't answer the question at all, so why lie that you are in agreement?
He stated that
but by doing nothing Labour are actively encouraging the status quo & there fore not stopping the money funneling up
Is that the part you agree with? That labour are serving the wealthiest in society by inaction? Or more likely that you are trying to divert attention from continued right wing failure.
So Labour inherited the highest tax burden since the war, what taxes do YOU want raising?
The highest tax burden on the majority, if you had read the article (if you can read) then you might understand that taxation is not a burden felt heavily by the money horders at the top of the pile. 50 families having the wealth (wealth that is barely taxed and frequently hidden even to avoid that meagre tax burden) of 50% of the population is an astonishingly poor indictment of your right wing economic dogma.
But as you ask what tax I would raise, for a start.
- capital gains tax to be the same level as income tax.
- NI to be paid at the same levels for all income
And also tax havens to be cut adrift from the UK.
That would at least make a decent start, but I am sure you will keep pretending that Farage is the problem rather than Starmers new labour adaption of Tory failed economic policy.
So Labour inherited the highest tax burden since the war, what taxes do YOU want raising?
All the stuff that is not taxed at the same level as PAYE would be a good start, the wealthiest tend to pay the least %.
Combined with other asset based taxes, closing down off loopholes, companies that exist to help wealthily dodge stuff etc,.
The fact that Labour are not really bothering much with it and looking elsewhere (i.e. disabled) if the point being made I think.
So Labour inherited the highest tax burden since the war, what taxes do YOU want raising?
All the stuff that is not taxed at the same level as PAYE would be a good start, the wealthiest tend to pay the least %.
Combined with other asset based taxes, closing down of loopholes, shutting down companies that exist to help the wealthy dodge stuff etc,.
The fact that Labour are not really bothering much with it and looking elsewhere (i.e. disabled) if the point being made I think.
Zia Usuf resigned as party chair...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq54p9epdg6o
Seems Reform MPs are not all on the same wavelength....
Will be interesting to know what's really going on here. Grifters realising it's not as easy as they thought? Party infighting? Cult of Farage bring exposed for what it is?
Farage will be off shortly to set up a new grift.
Well, fancy that. Turns out the new Reform MP is an islamophobe.
It didn't come as much of a surprise, to be honest, but it seems to have done for Mr Yusuf. He's probably got a nice little nest egg for his period as window dressing for the racists, though, so sympathy is in short supply.
Considering how few MPs they have/had, their appetite for infighting makes the Conservatives look…. erm…. conservative.
Any party that Farage either starts or inhabits just ends up as a cult of him and everyone else is just expandable fodder
Will be interesting to know what's really going on here. Grifters realising it's not as easy as they thought?
Their DOGE nonsense will go nowhere as the supposed spend by councils on net zero and diversity is a total fantasy, dreamt up by the right wing press.
It’ll cost them more to have their silly little investigations than they’re ever going to save through whatever minuscule spending they find.
Good luck on delivering the moon on a stick they’ve promised to the idiots who voted for them. No wonder they’re bailing out already
Think it's fair to say Reform put a line in the sand with the MPs comments and the Chairman's departure. Its gone down well with the faithful to say the least.
personality cults dont have room for anyone else at the top, Ysuuf has been credited with overseeing reforms expansion, and his professionalism has put them in a much better place than ukip ever managed. so it some ways Farage can discard him happily as that job is now done.
the ban the burqua comments were very popular with many of reforms core supporters.
im not sure ysufs exit will slow their momentum much, but Farage cant keep losing people who are halfway competent without some effect.
It didn't come as much of a surprise, to be honest, but it seems to have done for Mr Yusuf. He's probably got a nice little nest egg for his period as window dressing for the racists, though, so sympathy is in short supply.
🤔 Yusuf is Reform's largest donor, he hasn't made any money out of being their chairman. He's given them at least £200k
Meanwhile, the plot thickens over at Reform...
BBC News - Zia Yusuf returning to Reform UK two days after quitting
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyv040rnqzo
He's coming back to me the public face of and head of DOGE ... Which seems to be a bit of a poisoned chalice!
I did find it ironic that he'd been the victim of racial abuse.
Who'd have thought it . . .
I'm so confused I thought Zia was back - but now Dr David Bull ex presenter or Newsround is the chairman?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3v54d60y6vo
Zia is back but not as chairman. He is going to be heading Reform's "DOGE team".
Kent's new Reform led county council is in a bit of an ongoing mess.
The latest revelation to hit the news today, a Reform councillor has been suspended due to an ongoing police investigation.
Can you imagine this lot if they ever do form a government? It'll be a bloody cluster fudge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0eq3dxe28go
I’m absolutely certain that Reform creating a department called DOGE is going to inspire millions up and down the country to throw aside their current political allegiances and vote for them. 🫢😏
I’m absolutely certain that Reform creating a department called DOGE is going to inspire millions up and down the country to throw aside their current political allegiances and vote for them. 🫢😏
Yeah, despite the Tories and the LibDems successfully selling austerity to the British electorate in 2010 austerity has now become a dirty word in UK politics.
Reform publicising the fact that they are going to create a whole department commited to austerity makes no sense, especially at a time when they are riding high in the opinion polls.
I don't think that most of the public see the connection between austerity and cost cutting imaginary government waste, the centrists certainly don't, it has been their main argument in supporting the Starmer Government that apparently the government is still hugely wasteful despite 15 years of tory austerity and in continuing announcing cost cutting while working out how afterwards.
The whole narrative is that government is "inherently wasteful" and cuts are needed no matter what. We need leaders to start challenging that narrative, reforms DOGE is just a couple of percent more than Starmers policies, they are really not at all different to any large degree.
Just though I would post this to show how effecient or not they are at Kent CC.
Have canceled a lot of important meetings so very little can be done at the moment.
https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/mgCalendarMonthView.aspx?GL=1&bcr=1
The whole narrative is that government is "inherently wasteful" and cuts are needed no matter what.
I would imagine it is. I think all large corporations / organisations are wasteful due to their size and not really knowing exactly what people are doing all day long (how many people posting on this forum in the day time are 'working'?
I would however just accept that is how people work and given the chance to do less for same money they will.
Just though I would post this to show how effecient or not they are at Kent CC.
Have canceled a lot of important meetings so very little can be done at the moment.
https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/mgCalendarMonthView.aspx?GL=1&bcr=1
Similar here in Derbyshire
I would however just accept that is how people work and given the chance to do less for same money they will.
I think in the case of large organisations it's largely a response to all the banal drivel tacked onto the "actual" work that pisses people off and makes them less productive.
I would imagine it is.
A lot of people "imagine" it is, thats the problem. Take the NHS for example, it is actually rather well regarded as a highly efficient organisation, far more efficient than most other countries health systems. I used to work in the NHS and my memory was actually working rather hard to deliver far better services than were actually realistically achievable within the budget. In fact I would say where I was working the biggest problem was burnout due to a general belief in its founding mission statement.
The problem with believing the myth of inefficiency is that every current political party talks about savings, it creates an atmosphere of never ending cuts, by rhetoric, intent and policy.
Government should be about providing the services that are essential and working out how to deliver them, not just assuming that cutting the budget is good and hey if life just keeps getting worse well **** it, we cut the budget so the oligarchs can horde even more money.
A lot of people "imagine" it is, thats the problem. Take the NHS for example, it is actually rather well regarded as a highly efficient organisation, far more efficient than most other countries health systems. I used to work in the NHS and my memory was actually working rather hard to deliver far better services than were actually realistically achievable within the budget.
When it comes to NHS I don't have to imagine it. I know people who work in NHS who do even less than I do.
People are not efficient and any excuse to not work they will find it, are you at 'work' now while spending time on this forum for example?
are you at 'work' now while spending time on this forum for example?
I mean, it is lunch time, here at least. And who cares what time it is if the job gets done when its supposed to be done.
And who cares what time it is if the job gets done when its supposed to be done.
Let's say I can get my job done in 5 hours a day leaving the other 3 not really doing much. And let's also say there are loads of people in that position in an organisation. Is that an efficient organisation from a cost perspective?
And who cares what time it is if the job gets done when its supposed to be done.
Let's say I can get my job done in 5 hours a day leaving the other 3 not really doing much. And let's also say there are loads of people in that position in an organisation. Is that an efficient organisation from a cost perspective?
I absolutely agree, but I can assure you that is not just a public sector issue.
When it comes to NHS I don't have to imagine it. I know people who work in NHS who do even less than I do.
Its still a highly efficient organisation and I think real knowledge of folk who work or have worked in it rather trumps your opinion
Another Reform councillor suddenly discovering that this gravy train isn't as easy as it looks from the terrace of his local Wetherspoons:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93knke95peo
Would be interesting to know how many councillors of different political flavours have stepped down in the same time period.
YouGov said: "Reform's meteoric rise to becoming comfortably the largest party in a hung parliament is driven by impressive performances right across the country - including in Scotland."
Reform have started to make inroads into London now too.
Four years is a long time in politics but it is becoming evermore obvious that a very fundamental shift has occurred in UK politics, this isn't a blip. Every single national opinion poll since mid-April has had Reform in the lead.
This is frankly terrifying. I know politics as usual is doing a terrible job right now but who is looking at these clowns thinking "* * * * it - what have a I got to lose?".
As numerous people have said, if Labour can't start doing something progressive and manage their PR, they're royally * * * *ed and so are we.
Why is * * * * shortening to *?