Behind the scenes you can guarantee that reform are working hard on the social media or some one else is happily doing it for them, with the steady drip drip of how lawless the U.K. is. amongst the cat videos.
With people in the USA government repeating that line for them as well. Social media is mostly American, after all, and over the next few years, it’s only going one way.
At least with PR every vote would in someway count
Which is why we don’t have it, same old same old in charge 🙂
If reform did get in regardless of how shambolic their reign was if they were to switch to PR then there would be change and they were offering a rererendem on that.
Reform could actually be inadvertently a one hit wonder party that really does change everything before they disappear, although your human rights may be gone and anyone can say anything until they get a friendly beating by a burly new style street judge.
PR will change nothing with the current political financing rules, we will still only get to vote on the choices the backers of political parties allow. There are many countries, including in Europe, with PR that are still experiencing the same unrepresentative political problems as the UK, and it is the power of wealth that is the bigger problem in them all. PR is a good thing to have once that bigger issue is resolved, without removing the distorting effect of money then changing to PR will just be a façade of change to fool the masses.
Dickyboy. We have only ever had a Tory mp……..until last year. I joined a party ,became a volunteer and we now have a Lib Dem mp.
Dont give up ,get active.
The problem is that ever since the LibDems enabled a Tory government, and enthusiastically supported austerity as a solution, they are generally no longer seen as a credible alternative to the Tories and Labour by voters like they once were.
The fact that the LibDems increased their number of MPs from 11 to 72 in last year's general election, despite receiving very slightly less votes than they received in 2019, is simply a reflection of the weird anomalies which can occur under first-past-the-post, not an increase in support.
Ernie,I'm more worried about the future than the past.
Totally agree that we need PR or we will be stuck with ConForm for the next 20 years.
The lack of credibility that mainstream politicians have in the eyes of voters is directly connected to the past.
And it is precisely what Nigel Farage is exploiting.
PR may "change nothing" but at the very least it will make my & many millions more peoples vote count even if it is some small way.
I agree with Zippy, libdems made a serious error 15yrs ago but they align with my hopes more than any other party at present, especially locally.
So probably not a potential Nigel Farage supporter then!
The apparent meteoric rise in support for Reform UK is an interesting phenomena, discussing the root causes of this upending of UK politics would also be interesting.
The problem is that ever since the LibDems enabled a Tory government, and enthusiastically supported austerity as a solution, they are generally no longer seen as a credible alternative to the Tories and Labour by voters like they once were.
The fact that the LibDems increased their number of MPs from 11 to 72 in last year's general election, despite receiving very slightly less votes than they received in 2019, is simply a reflection of the weird anomalies which can occur under first-past-the-post, not an increase in support.
Isn't it amazing that people can have such long standing beefs at the Lib Dems for that 4 years but are willing to let any other **** go!
So probably not a potential Nigel Farage supporter then!
Nope, despite the company I work for having ukip in to give a talk to the workers prior to the referendum, I have not been swayed 🤣
The lack of credibility that mainstream politicians have in the eyes of voters is directly connected to the past.
And it is precisely what Nigel Farage is exploiting.
Yet it's surprisingly easy to expose Farage's own lack of credibility.
The problem is that ever since the LibDems enabled a Tory government, and enthusiastically supported austerity as a solution
Although mixing and matching with the question about funding politicians it is worth noting that the libdems at the time got hefty funding from Paul Marshall especially directed to the orange book lot (he wrote a chapter in it) who unfortunately managed to be in power and hence dragged the party hard right regardless of the libdems membership wishes (sound familiar?)
He then moved on to fund the tories and now pays for GBeebies and various other right wing media all of which have a liking for Farage.
Isn't it amazing that people can have such long standing beefs at the Lib Dems for that 4 years but are willing to let any other **** go!
I'm naturally more LibDem than Labour, and the LibDems/Greens seem to be where I'd ideally put my vote, but I also don't get why they are still being roasted for that when the Tories and now Labour seem to get a free pass for literally everything ever since
Isn't it amazing that people can have such long standing beefs at the Lib Dems for that 4 years but are willing to let any other **** go!
The Libdems don't legitimise hitherto hidden prejudices, though.
Yet it's surprisingly easy to expose Farage's own lack of credibility.
But no matter how many times you do that it doesn't anyone's view of him.
At this point I think it would take allegations of a Glitter/Saville type shitstorm to bring him down, even then I'm not entirely sure it would diminish his popularity. They'd be more along the lines of the Jackson allegations.
Isn't it amazing that people can have such long standing beefs at the Lib Dems for that 4 years but are willing to let any other **** go!
I don't think that it is simply a question of "punishing" the LibDems for enabling a Tory government, I suspect the root cause of their general lack of credibility is the fact that their leader became deputy Prime Minister.
Part of the LibDems appeal has been that they had never been in government so they were not necessarily viewed as an establishment party, although really they were. Now they are very much viewed by many voters as part of the UK political establishment so therefore seen as part of the problem rather than the solution.
Yet it's surprisingly easy to expose Farage's own lack of credibility.
No not really in the eyes of the electorate, he has only been an MP for 12 months and never held any responsible government position.
It is power which effectively discredits politicians. On the face of it Sir Keir Starmer's Tory-lite bollocks should have been fairly easy to discredit when he was leader of the opposition, but it wasn't until he won a general election and became Prime Minister that voters rapidly concluded that he was just another shyster with nothing different to offer.
A hundred years ago Lenin famously stated that the UK Labour Party should be supported like a rope supports a hanged man. His theory was that the most effective way to discredit the Labour Party was to help them achieve power, ie give them enough rope to hang themselves.
Lenin was right about most things and history repeats itself, first as a tragedy then as a farce.
In the social media post, Farage accused Essex Police of causing the disturbances and called the alleged actions "absolutely disgraceful" and "one of the most extraordinary acts I've seen from the police force in my lifetime."
You would think that the man who claims he would recruit 30,000 more coppers and half the crime rate might have a little more confidence in the police would you not?
And you would also think that as the whiff of power becomes stronger Nigel Farage would perhaps take a leaf from Marine Le Pen's book and start distancing himself from far-right neo-nazi thugs instead of throwing his weight behind them.
The rioting in British cities by the far-right was not popular with voters 12 months ago and there is no reason to believe that it will be popular with voters now.
Still it's all good if Farage cannot resist a knee jerk reaction and publicly expresses support for thuggish rioters as far as I am concerned, it is not going to bring him any extra voters.
Let's hope though that the Prime Minister doesn't repeat the same mistake he made 12 ago when he refused to directly blame Farage for his responsibility in inciting the lawlessness.
So, we have Starmer, Badenoch, Davey, Farage....... any of them inspire you, any give you confidence they will do a good job? Yes? No? Therein lies the problem.
Living in a country with PR I love this rose-tinted view that it would solve Everything. At a very minimum it means getting rid of a constituent MP - and like FPTP or not, having a "local" MP is definitely a strong point about UK politics. Without it you have some kind of party list: vote for Labour, and you'll get the MPs Labour decides are good for you. With no personal accountability.
Personally I think STV is the best of both worlds: we guarantee (up to a certain point) that the elected MP is the local choice, but no-one's vote is ignored. Unfortunately asking local voters to count up to five is apparently too hard, so it seems to be FPTP or the Lib's and Reform's dreams of nationwide PR.
Living in a country with PR I love this rose-tinted view that it would solve Everything
I am not aware anyone claims something so simplistic. Simply that it is one of the many things required to fix our political system.
STV is considered a PR system.
Not quite sure how you mean STV and "elected mp" since generally STV is used for multi member constituencies with AV being used for the single member.
At a very minimum it means getting rid of a constituent MP
It needn’t do. You can have PR and still have constituencies. That could mean multi member constituencies (where you are far more likely to have a local MP you voted for to speak to and represent you), or it could mean additional members, or it could mean two chambers/houses, or… a combination of all the above.
All I can say is Labour are very dissapointing on account of them inviting, and apparently upholding the agreement to invite a convicted fraud and rapist on a state visit.
Apparently that's ok as long as they are white. Hell, we'll even roll out the red carpet for them 🤬
Kinda makes a mockery of the whole 'immigrants are rapists, but only the dark skinned ones or the eastern european ones' argument.
I've still had no reply from my labour MP on this matter, so that was likely the first and last time I'll ever vote Labour.
I'll be voting green or lib-dem next election, most likely lib-dem.
Apparently that's ok as long as they are white. Hell, we'll even roll out the red carpet for them
That's not true !
The Labour Party very strongly opposes state visits from misogynist racists, even if they are white :
https://www.cityam.com/labour-mps-table-bid-thwart-trump-state-visit-because/
Labour just has a different set of principles for when they are in government.
Just who exactly is supposed to be in charge here?
Good to see Essex police coming out and strongly condemning misinformation being spread by ‘certain political parties’ to further their own ends.
Now he’s actually an MP he can’t get away with his flagrant lying and shit stirring any more.
Essex police have said that there will be arrests for ‘hate crime’, so he’s now had fair warning. I’m sure he’d love to be arrested though and his knuckle-dragging, tinfoil-helmeted supporters would see it as some grand conspiracy to silence their man of the people
I note he’s also gone full ‘Poundshop Trump’ with his use of language, waffling on about ‘antifa’. FFS 🙄
The (now probably) annual summer racist riots is Farage's big moment of the year.
This could easily be dealt with, under existing laws, if Labour grew some balls and applied them.
The argument about not giving a cancer like Farage the oxygen of publicity is a nonsense. He practically has his own slot on most BBC current affairs programmes. The big problem is that Starmer thinks he has to rely on 'a certain demographic' himself, and is thus unwilling to commit and probably push them into the arms of Reform. Let's call it cowardice.
FFS. It is July 2024. Clean slate. Everyone pretty much hates the Tories. Their saner supporters are sick of having to defend the antics of Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Their nutjob supporters are deserting them for Reform. Now is the time to put clear water between decent people and politics and the likes of Reform. Say it like it is. Small boat crossings are due to Brexit. That last (probably most dangerous) border crossing to the UK is only deemed worth the risk because it takes the migrants out of the zone for returns agreements. Farage literally caused this issue (it isn't a ****ing crisis like the media enjoy portraying it). Put it back on Farage and call him out on it.
But Starmer has utterly squandered this moment. Now we're a year down the road and Starmer is so scared of the insular bigots that he just tries to sound like them now, to be 'cool'. Where is the worldly former DPP? The QC with the world view and the pragmatism?
What a wasted moment.
The (now probably) annual summer racist riots is Farage's big moment of the year.
This could easily be dealt with, under existing laws, if Labour grew some balls and applied them.
The argument about not giving a cancer like Farage the oxygen of publicity is a nonsense. He practically has his own slot on most BBC current affairs programmes. The big problem is that Starmer thinks he has to rely on 'a certain demographic' himself, and is thus unwilling to commit and probably push them into the arms of Reform. Let's call it cowardice.
FFS. It is July 2024. Clean slate. Everyone pretty much hates the Tories. Their saner supporters are sick of having to defend the antics of Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Their nutjob supporters are deserting them for Reform. Now is the time to put clear water between decent people and politics and the likes of Reform. Say it like it is. Small boat crossings are due to Brexit. That last (probably most dangerous) border crossing to the UK is only deemed worth the risk because it takes the migrants out of the zone for returns agreements. Farage literally caused this issue (it isn't a ****ing crisis like the media enjoy portraying it). Put it back on Farage and call him out on it.
But Starmer has utterly squandered this moment. Now we're a year down the road and Starmer is so scared of the insular bigots that he just tries to sound like them now, to be 'cool'. Where is the worldly former DPP? The QC with the world view and the pragmatism?
What a wasted moment.
So much this. Starmer had such a huge opportunity, and the majority to make the most of it, and he squandered it apparently to pander to Reform supporters.
But back to Farage - does spreading demonstrable lies about the Police in Essex count as bringing Parliament into disrepute?
I can see why he's too scared to visit his constituents in Clacton if he's relying on Essex police to protect him after spouting shite like that.
The electorate of Clacton can **** right off. And when they think they've ****ed right off, they can **** off a little bit more.
They elected Farage in the full knowledge that he was never going to be a constituency MP. If they have any issues with this, tough shit.
The electorate of Clacton can **** right off. And when they think they've ****ed right off, they can **** off a little bit more.
They elected Farage in the full knowledge that he was never going to be a constituency MP. If they have any issues with this, tough shit.
A minority of the electorate in Clacton voted for him. Hating broad groups for no reason only makes things worse.
Only because the rest of the knuckle draggers in Clacton couldn't spell X
The electorate of Clacton can **** right off. And when they think they've ****ed right off, they can **** off a little bit more.
They elected Farage in the full knowledge that he was never going to be a constituency MP. If they have any issues with this, tough shit.
A minority of the electorate in Clacton voted for him. Hating broad groups for no reason only makes things worse.
But you liked the post! 🧐
Let's face it, there's a reason why Reform (until now) have targeted crap holes with largely white British (supposedly) 'left behind' electorates. Whether you take the view that 'left behind' is really a thing or not is irrelevant. These places exist.
Say it like it is.
As a 'regular politician' you cannot out-popularise a populist politician. The people that are 'listening' to Farage aren't interested in what Starmer says, Starmer's/Labour's post on Insta/X aren't in their feeds, all they'll see is Farage's reaction to them. At the same time if you don't say anything, Farage will label you as Frit. Farage rarely goes to Parliament or his constituency, where's he's often made to look foolish, but again, all his supporters are seeing is carefully curated posts on Reform's SM output when he does.
Regular politicians are damned if they do/6 of the other.
Even so, Reform's popularity isn't all that. Much of their support comes from people who wouldn't otherwise vote for one of the other parties anyway. There's a long history of smaller parties that cannot get their support out to vote despite their popularity (see the same phenomena for young people and Green party) - The other problem Farage has is that few people think that Reform is a 'major party'
Despite opinion polls now showing Reform UK on similar levels of support to the Conservatives and Labour, the British public are yet to consider them a ‘main party’, with just 29% of Britons seeing them on that level. This compares to 90% who say so of Labour, 88% who consider the Conservatives to be a ‘main party’ and 44% who say the same of the Lib Dems.
Council by-election count last night. Mrs g reports that there was no Reform representative present, though Reform came a very decent second to Labour. It just seems a bit... flakey.
As a 'regular politician' you cannot out-popularise a populist politician.
Nonsense.
That's only if you define 'populism' as racist rabble rousing.
You can be 'populist' to reasonable people by (correctly) pinning the blame for the small boats phenomenon on Brexit and pinning that back on Farage. Then watch the ****er squirm.
But McSweeney will tell Starmer not to. And Starmer will obey.
Nautical Nige - the politician who launched a thousand small boats.
Farage Ferries.
Brexit Boats.
Throw some mud at the wall and see if it sticks.
My mud name is
Nij Al Farage. He is turning the uk into a muslamic state by ethnically cleansing white Christian Europeans from our land…..do your own research etc.
You can be 'populist' to reasonable people by (correctly) pinning the blame for the small boats phenomenon on Brexit and pinning that back on Farage. Then watch the ****er squirm.
I've made that exact point 2 several mates after they tried 2 talk me into voting for Reform at the last election, complete waste of time unfortunately as they wouldn't hear a word of it . Farage will no doubt respond to that by pointing out he was not part of the government that 'negotiated' the withdrawal from the EU and pinning all of the blame on Boris Johnsons government before telling us how he would've got a much better deal if he'd been in charge
Truss or Braverman?
My money is on Truss.
Truss or Braverman?
My money is on Truss.
Missing some context.
Farage is (again) fuelling the public anger. I really hope he crosses a criminal line this time.
Rupert Matthews ?
Who the **** is he?
According to Wikipedia he is an expert on ghosts and UFOs
Rupert Matthews ?
Who the **** is he?
Gawd knows, but these quotes mark him out as an utter stroker.
Speaking at a press conference alongside Reform UK leader Nigel Farage, he said the "dark heart of wokeness" needed to be cut out of the criminal justice system.
"The self-serving, self-entitled liberal elite who have let our country down time after time are now on notice their day is almost done," he said.
My estimation would be that he's a little establishment ****er who thinks his poxy little role as PCC in Leicestershire has given him delusions that he's Little Bill Daggett in 'Unforgiven'.
🍆💦
Is this now the way? Fartage calls a press conference to announce every inbred curtain-twitcher 'made good' who joins Reform?
Sky carried this quite prominently and yet the headline really should be "NIMBY Nobody Joins Racist Rabble".
Not farage(unfortunately) but one of his biggest supporters, the scumbag James Whale is now dead.
And F******g good riddance to the ****
Fartage calls a press conference to announce every inbred curtain-twitcher 'made good' who joins Reform?
Apparently so. As has been noted by several commentators, plus Cleverly, since this is yet another tory defector at some point isnt the pitch of being new and different from the two main parties going to wear thin given how many tories are switching. Its also not a great look for them ethically either "looked at the polls and decided I wanted to keep my job, sorry, I believed strongly in those policies which havent been announced".
Sky carried this quite prominently
I understand OFCOM have had over 2000 complaints about their excessive coverage of the Reform party
Apparently so. As has been noted by several commentators, plus Cleverly, since this is yet another tory defector at some point isnt the pitch of being new and different from the two main parties going to wear thin given how many tories are switching
Poor old Honest Bob. He’s been out there yet again today doing his best Farage tribute act but by the time he replaces Kemi as leader (surely it won’t be long now?) there’s going to be nobody left.
