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I wouldn't say Zoe's are particularly quirky looking. Small, yes, but not quirky. You can get a [url= https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/kangoo-ze/models-prices/business.html ]base Kangoo ZE 33 for under £22.5k including VAT[/url]. Not as good range on it granted but the maxi or crew cab (with moveable bulkhead) caters to the Berlingo crowd, you just need to add glazing and you're good to go. Turns out you can fit a towbar too.
ED- The Leaf is more Micra-like than that anaphylactic monstrosity! (but agree with your point)
Read an interesting thing about the use of capacitors in EVs. Let them handle the high regen/discharge element of braking and accelerating as that's what damages the L ion batteries. They can then just be used for more steady state running with resulting increases in range and longevity.
The Juke is quirky and the Clio swaging a bit odd, I prefer the EV looks.
Lack of reading fail. On my part.
I like cars and have previously not really been interested in EV’a but I’m definitely coming round to the idea. I’m seriously contemplating replacing my company car (vRS) with an i3 if it’s stull in the company car list. I had a spin in a colleague’s range extender and really liked it. I do have my reservations though...
Just turning the day nav / media on reduced the range.
Turning the heating on kills the range. Not an issue in the morning because it can be conditioned ready to drive to work. The return journey won’t work out like that.
My round trip to work is 60 miles, 100 miles or so if I pop to Cannock for a ride on the way home. So largely doable.
It’s the stuff outside of this that worries me; visiting family I have in Sheffield, Chipping Norton, Beaconsfield, Brighton all of whom I see reasonably regularly. None of those trips could be done on a single charge.
It’s be rubbish for bike trips too; Revo, Stiniog, FOD, CYB etc. None of which are that far or require a pit stop.
If I can afford to take the i3 as a second car for my other half and buy myself something else I’ll almost definitely do it. It’s suit her driving to a T which is short trips to work and dropping the boy off at school.
Talking to my colleague who has one, he says the charging in public is not as easy as it sounds because of the number of companies running the charging points, some of which need a monthly subscription.
My other fear is that as a company car driver, I’m at the mercy of the giver changing the way that the cars are taxed which will happen as money from VED and fuel tax is lost. It’s burnt me on my current car.
Lack of reading fail. On my part.
No fail, the text wasn't there when you looked at the post. I only added it with an edit when I'd got all the pics to work. The preview feature was handy for that.
Talking to my colleague who has one, he says the charging in public is not as easy as it sounds because of the number of companies running the charging points, some of which need a monthly subscription.
I've not found that an issue Charge Your Car covers a massive network and is £10 per annum. The service station at Sterling was the only place I've encountered that was the exception. Downloading the app for that company and paying just for the charge solved it.
Seems the current i3 isn't an option for you I'd look at others are what's coming.
Talking to my colleague who has one, he says the charging in public is not as easy as it sounds because of the number of companies running the charging points, some of which need a monthly subscription.
He's right. Get on zap-map, Chargemap and read EV forums to find which companies provide reliable fast chargers on the routes you use to see how feasable the journies are.
Edit: I see Drac already has a suggestion (which I've noted, ta Drac). I'll add Podpoints which are are often free and controlled by a mobile app - but only 3 or 7KW in many cases.
If I can afford to take the i3 as a second car for my other half and buy myself something else I’ll almost definitely do it. It’s suit her driving to a T which is short trips to work and dropping the boy off at school.
Get a used Zoe or Leaf then.
It could be luck of course but like I say I’ve not found an issue. I’ve only actually paid for the charge a handful of times as or free to use too.
He’s right. Get on zap-map, Chargemap and read EV forums to find which companies provide reliable fast chargers on the routes you use to see how feasable the journies are.
Jeeez, and the ev proponents wonder why everyone hasn't bought an ev yet ?
If I have to go digging around on forums to work out where to charge my car for a given long journey then you can forget ev's.
Don't get me wrong I think ev's are the future,but we're a good few years away from them being acceptable for a good proportion of potential users.
We've just bought a new (used)car, went for deisel (shock horror) , ev just isn't mature enough yet for me. Will revisit the ev car question again in 5-10 years.
If I have to go digging around on forums to work out where to charge my car for a given long journey then you can forget ev’s.
You don’t.
We’ve just bought a new (used)car, went for deisel (shock horror) , ev just isn’t mature enough yet for me. Will revisit the ev car question again in 5-10 years.
Next Gen then just like the thread title.
You don’t
Hmm educator said I did have to do that...
Until I can just get in the car and type the destination into the sat Nov and go ,and then get there in a similar time frame to the same journey in a regular car, ev's are not going to cut it - for me
Until I can just get in the car and type the destination into the sat Nov and go ,and then get there in a similar time frame to the same journey in a regular car, ev’s are not going to cut it – for me
How frequent are you 200+ mile journeys?
Hmm educator said I did have to do that…
Until I can just get in the car and type the destination into the sat Nov and go ,and then get there in a similar time frame to the same journey in a regular car, ev’s are not going to cut it – for me
You don't need to though, it may make things easier having some preplanned route but it's not essential.
Yes that's why I'm hybrid this time as it just wasn't quite there, the next gen ones coming out in this and following years are looking like that will be much easier and likely.
Jerez, and the ev proponents wonder why everyone hasn’t bought an ev yet ?
Try reading the thread form start to finish. That's exactly what the EV owners are not wondering. We're being helpful, honest and pragmatic, recognise the limits and would like to see better infrastructure ourselves.
As for buying a diesel. If you are aware of the issues, aware of the excess deaths diesel polluiton creates, aware of the impact of climatic change on poor populaiotns around the world: then buy a diesel because you're too lazy to spend a few minutes researching charge points before starting a journey you've never done before... well who do you see in the mirror?
If you've enough time to waste slagging off EVs on this forum you've got more than enough time to check out where to charge your car.
How frequent are you 200+ mile journeys?
Not very,once a month maybe.but why would I choose to own ( or lease etc) a car that costs more than what I have now, but actually unable to do all the same jobs as my current car.i don't want the hassle of hiring a different car for when I want to do a different journey type. I just want to get in the car that is on my drive and go.
Don't worry I'm not going to carry on this argument as I won't be able to convince you of my point of view and you won't convince me of yours.
Ev's will be the future, mainly once the infrastructure matures,but right now we're still in the early adopter phase.
Get a used Zoe or Leaf then.
I don’t want one though. I actually like the i3. It’s a bit odd looking but that’s part of its charm. I like the fact that BMW have tried to go full eco with it (built in a different factory using renewable energy, recycled materials etc).
Did anyone see the article in Autocar last month about the possibility of the government using the home charging points as a way to monitor use / tax you on it? A chap from Pod Point agreed that it’s possible. The government responded saying that they have no intention at the moment to do so, but I guess if enough people change then they’ll do something.
I like the fact that BMW have tried to go full eco with it (built in a different factory using renewable energy, recycled materials etc).
Toyota did that with the MkII Prius too.
but why would I choose to own ( or lease etc) a car that costs more than what I have now, but actually unable to do all the same jobs as my current car.
Cos of all the environmental reasons Edukator states...?
Did anyone see the article in Autocar last month about the possibility of the government using the home charging points as a way to monitor use / tax you on it?
Is this not more of an issue for the petrol & EV vehicles where people got a great tax incentive then never bothered to use the EV part of the car?
Or those who fitted on as "Hey! It's free I pay my taxes" then never bought a EV or Hybrid as they don't stop when driving 700 miles once a year.
Cos of all the environmental reasons Edukator states…?
They don't have a direct personal impact and a lot of people put them at a lower priority than their own costs (which is exactly why fixing environmental issues is so hard)
However, it could be fixed very easily - make EV cars cheaper that petrol equivalent model (government incentives) and you will suddenly see loads of them. With that will come more charging points, future cost of teh car coming down so incentives can be removed etc,.
The VED/fuel duty question is quite easy, make it mileage based between MOT's. Kills 2 birds with one stone - car users continue to pay into the system whilst ICE users could be charged at a higher rate (taking into account the environmental or geographical aspect) but essentially on a PAYG basis. Effect being more people switch to EV for regular journeys and the few that need or keep an ICE for less regular use aren't scrapping cars before the end of their useful life.
However, it could be fixed very easily – make EV cars cheaper that petrol equivalent model (government incentives) and you will suddenly see loads of them.
That's what they do with company cars - a lot of EVs, possiby the majority, are company cars I reckon.
That may be true but the vast majority of motorists aren't driving company cars. More is needed but targeted appropriately. C2W, cargo bike grants, affordable public transport etc.
affordable public transport etc.
Well my commute just got 40% cheaper this morning, can't fault TGFM Metro Value at the moment
the possibility of the government using the home charging points as a way to monitor use / tax you on it?
Lots of chargers installed with the OLEV grant already include monitoring, but I think it's since been abandoned since nobody could really think of what to do with the data.
Taxing isn't going to happen, and I'd be surprised if the podpoint chap didn't put some pretty big caveats on what he said.
One of the advantages of an EV is that electricity is everywhere; if the proper charger cost more I would just plug it into a normal socket instead, and there's little anyone can do to stop me unless we go seriously Big Brother. Or I would just get a charger without the OLEV grant if that grant was going to cost more in the long run.
People without their own charger at home are theoretically more at risk of something like this, but then you would have a crazy system where the less well off are more financially penalised than the well off.
And that would be crazy, and I'm sure no government would ever do that.
Right?
As for buying a diesel. If you are aware of the issues, aware of the excess deaths diesel polluiton creates, aware of the impact of climatic change on poor populaiotns around the world.
As others have mentioned, the pollution caused by EV vehicles is there, it's just geographically disconnected. There's still carbon and noxious gasses produced for the electricity.
Shall we get into the mining and production of the chemicals for batteries?
How about the fact that it's difficult to recycle - at present not enough capacity and the process is very manual and hazardous to health of the operators and locals.
Sorry, but I'm not buying the "New EV car is better for environment" compared to me running the old diesel as long as possible. (Yet)
Shall we get into the mining and production of the chemicals for batteries?
Try page 2, 3, 4 and maybe 6.
There is little point trying to persuade the sceptics/cynics on here that BEVs are a good idea (unless you like a good argument) because there are plenty of people out there that want one as evidenced by the demand for BEVs far outstripping current production. The affordable BEV (at least on a lease) with realistic range is here now in the shape of the Hyundai Kona and Kia eNero. As William Gibson said "The future is here now its just unevenly distributed"
Well my commute just got 40% cheaper this morning, can’t fault TGFM Metro Value at the moment
Lucky you, meanwhile up here fares are going up by 3.1%, only 1 in 4 trains run on time on our line and IIRC 1 in 8 trains are cancelled. Our regional equivalent of TFGM got its balls cut off years ago and left with the Glasgow Subway and whatever bus services First cant be ****ed with any more to play with.
Then folk wonder why folk drive everywhere?
I'd love an EV, especially as a second car alongside my petrol Landcruiser, then I'd have the best of both worlds 🙂
What the **** is a BEV?
I’ve only just stopped thinking about woofers, Alpine head units, finned amplifiers, dodgy lighting, tinted windows and RENAULT 5’s (don’t ask) when ICE is mentioned.
It’s just like a religion thread this 😂 some things never change 😉
**** it, have an 🥑
Battery Electric Vehicle.
No idea why you'd not just use EV though.
The affordable BEV (at least on a lease) with realistic range is here now in the shape of the Hyundai Kona and Kia eNero.
Not really. Why is the elective version £9,000 more than the petrol or diesel (and for a point I made a few pages back £9,000 is very to close to my figure of £10,000)
If the electric version was £16,000 I am sure people would seriously consider against a petrol, however £9,000 extra is not really viable within most peoples budgets.
I’d love an EV, especially as a second car alongside my petrol Landcruiser, then I’d have the best of both worlds
Lol reminds.me of a mate who had one in Oz, lived remotely so basically had to fill it up whenever he saw on open garage #rangeanxiety 😉
You're not allowed to mention people living in Oz in this thread, reality doesn't fit with the fanboi worldview.
The affordable BEV (at least on a lease) with realistic range is here now in the shape of the Hyundai Kona and Kia eNero
You could get a lot of ICE car for £450 a month (base spec 39KWh Kona, no options on a 3+35 8k mile allowance), although to be fair the base spec has decent equipment. 9.7sec 0-60 is a bit meh though and Hyundai's web-site states 42 week lead time to buy one!
Kona in meh shocker 😛
Battery Electric Vehicle.
No idea why you’d not just use EV though.
The Hydro Electric Vehicle, with it's 25,000L range extender bowser , wasn't quite such a success.
The affordable BEV (at least on a lease) with realistic range is here now in the shape of the Hyundai Kona and Kia eNero
You could get a lot of ICE car for £450 a month (base spec 39KWh Kona, no options on a 3+35 8k mile allowance), although to be fair the base spec has decent equipment. 9.7sec 0-60 is a bit meh though and Hyundai’s web-site states 42 week lead time to buy one!
Sure its pricey vs the equivalent spec ICE car but that will change quickly over the next 2-3 years. I still say its affordable and certainly affordable to many more people than £700 a month for a Tesla Model S and the running costs will be lower than the equivalent Kona ICE powered car. Looks like there is demand for them as well with 42 week lead time you quoted- Hyundai cant make enough of them!
"Hyundai cant make enough of them!"
or don't want to.
"You’re not allowed to mention people living in Oz in this thread, reality doesn’t fit with the fanboi worldview."
EV in oz makes more sense than many other countries. The vast majority of its 24 million population live in urban areas and rarely drive out of them. Abundant sunshine would give a huge solar PV boost which can be channeled into vehicle batteries and then back to grid again. it could be an renewable EV utopia but unfortunately the govt is going backwards on this.
The vast majority of its 24 million population live in urban areas and rarely drive out of them.
Yet the top two biggest selling vehicles are 4x4 trucks.
Yes that was rather my point. I'm afraid as this thread shows,apart from early adopters people will generally only buy change and alter their lifestyle if they are forced to by government policy or by overwhelming product push/lack of alternatives by private companies. However Australian car manufacturers push trucks and the government doesn't care.
However Australian car manufacturers push trucks and the government doesn’t care.
I thought the Australian manufacturers all closed up and everything's imported now. They used to make cars in Oz and import trucks. What happened?
"Get on zap-map"
Whose privacy policy is quite good, although they do refuse to delete.
"Chargemap"
Whose app wants full access to your email and contacts, who "can't guarantee that data exchanged will remain confidential and who want you to accept full liability for their actions.
"I’ll add Podpoints"
Who reserve the right to sell your details to people marketing EV services.
Whereas I can just turn up at a petrol station and buy diesel without handing over my entire life history.
Charging should be about turning up, plugging in and providing a credit card, not about surveillance.
And then there's:
"They discovered that the problem was down to a software issue, and an update sorted it. "
The car makers can, Apple style, arbitrarily change range and performance post-purchase. Or, in the case of Tesla, remove the cruise control during an update.
Still waiting for micro-nuclear reactor power.
Why have range anxiety, or 74 apps tracking everything you do and everywhere you go, when you can have permanent power for the life of the vehicle?
Charging should be about turning up, plugging in and providing a credit card, not about surveillance.
.
molgrips
Subscriber
Quite why BMW have dropped the range extender form their horrendously expensive i3 is frankly “ludicrous”Guessing people weren’t buying it.
75% of i3s sold in the UK had the range extender. It's more likely that they belive the newer model with the 200mile pure EV range is deemed to be sufficient to remove range anxiety. Removing the REX and its associated gubbins saves over 100kg.
Yes that was rather my point. I’m afraid as this thread shows,apart from early adopters people will generally only buy change and alter their lifestyle if they are forced to by government policy or by overwhelming product push/lack of alternatives by private companies.
Or because its cheaper to buy and run which BEVs will be eventually
OK charging is a mess just now but does anyone here honestly believe that in time that wont be sorted and you will be able to rock up to any charge point with a debit/credit card.
Or because its cheaper to buy and run which BEVs will be eventually
OK charging is a mess just now but does anyone here honestly believe that in time that wont be sorted and you will be able to rock up to any charge point with a debit/credit card.
absolutely this-
im well aware ill be in an EV one day - and itll probably be my next car for sure.
but i hate buying cars so tend to keep them ( my vehicles are currently 30/14 and 4 years old ... none bought new) - its all still a bit betamaxxy and a race to achieve the standard for me right now to buy something id like to keep for many years to come. And when i speak to those that are not getting them on company cars/company incentives that seems to be a popular reasoning.
how ever ill keep on the good fight of using the bike/ebike where i can so that the car doesnt space polution as well as emissions polution. the twizzy is ahead of its time !
I like the Tizzy concept and it would be good to see us moving in that direction where a small simple electric vehicle was main vehicle of choice for our daily commutes. But, yep we are not there yet.
I don't see your average person wanting to use one in the daily commute in the current weather. It's just too stripped back, eg aren't the doors extra? Even with doors I believe they are still poor at insulating you from the environment.
I also have concerns about safety in a crash especially with the larger cars we seem to be buying these days. Kinda seems like none of the benefits of a scooter / motorbike with most of the downsides.
I think something like a EV Smart car is the minimum requirement for todays mass market. You're in a properly insulated shell with heating, radio etc and reasonable level of impact protection.
Tbh your right . Ironically the arms race is part of the issue - it's part of what makes many of the ev's issues.
Right now today j have less issue with the engine the car has ice or electric than I do generally with the car.
Losing friends at what seems like a rate of 1 a year to the car directly. Not it's emissions , not it's engine but the driver physically driving into people.
Bring back smaller cars where people are aware of their surroundings with much smaller blind spots instead of isolated/protected from them with big solid pillars people can't see though - they will be lighter - get better range - EV will be much more viable as a personal transport method as they will need less batteries so be cheaper and more accessable.
Won't happen , everyone needs an elevated SUV for Tarquin