You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
The Panda 100hp is long dead.
The Renaultsport Twingo 133 in no more.
The Citigo Monte Carlo has pretty much the lowest power output in its class at 59bhp.
The Up! GT has never come to fruition, nor shows any signs of doing so.
I'd really like a cheap to own supermini that isn't out of its depth on the motorway nor wheezes like an asthmatic pensioner when trying to accelerate.
The best of the bunch currently appears to be the Citroen C1 with a 1.2 engine capable of 82bhp. Alas, the swish rag top roof on this model doesn't appear to be available in 3 door guise ( 3 doors being another requirement).
The Suzuki Swift Sport appeals, but higher road tax, lower fuel economy and pricier 17" tyres is putting me off (plus the super narrow Japanese bum width seats).
So currently top of the 'sporty' list is the Up! with 75bhp.. or the C1.
Surely there's something out there with a little more zest?
Or do I go for nearly new and try and pick up something like a Polo R-Line? Nice looks, nippy yet economical engine.
Budget circa 12k. Less is better. Ideally I'm looking for low monthly hire purchase and consumable costs, with a decent warranty.
Define "supermini"...
Are you talking "city car" or up to Ford Fiesta size?
well, I always assumed Fiesta's/Polo's to be a size above supermini - but the more reviews you read the more you see them lumped into the same category.
I certainly wouldn't rule out a larger model, but they of course come at a premium. I don't really want to go to Astra/Golf/Megame hatch size as my main consideration is low running costs - discs/pads/tyres/tax etc.
I also enjoy driving small go-kart type cars, and have option to go B-Roads for virtually all of my 30+ mile commute. I need to do occasional 500 mile round trips so motorway capability is important also.
Panda 100hp would've been ideal I think, but don't really want to chance my arm on ownership of a 5+ year old Fiat.
A used Mini?
Fiat 500 springs to mind. They do some nippy versions but not sure since they facelifted.
Yeah Mini is a reasonable shout. It's hard to know when to give up on purchasing new/nearly new - and delve into the mine field of used.
Mini's have big old tyres, and i'm not sure about economy or running costs. Always appealed in style though.
I think I tried to get into drivers side of a 500 once - and failed (im a big lump). I do however fit into its cousin - the new Panda.
Car's ive tried and fit comfortably into:
Up!
Citigo
Cars I don't fit comfortably in:
Aygo
Fabia (only 5 door model available, door aperture just not big enough)
I always thought that Fiesta/Polo/Clio was the standard for "supermini" and that the smaller "city car" came in afterwards.
Anyway, I know nothing, I drive an SUV
I don't really want to go to Astra/Golf/Megame hatch size as my main consideration is low running costs
Have you actually worked out if a supermini is significantly cheaper than the next size up e.g. Fiesta?
If you can even find a sporty supermini of course. Tyres are partly priced on size, and partly on volume - so the common small car sizes are still pretty cheap. However going for sporty models will increase costs far more than upsizing.
We've just got one, albeit a 2004 Cooper but it was only £2300 with 80k miles on it. Its absolutely immaculate and stupidly well built compared to anything else we looked at for that price. Only had it a month but already very smitten with the little thing - the styling etc is just an added bonus on top of what seems to be a very well built and great driving little thing.
Yaris? 1.3L/99bhp/3-dr/15" wheels
I'd go for the Swift Sport, it's worth the slightly higher costs.
Fiesta Zetec S with the 140bhp 1 litre ecoboost engine. Might just squeeze in within cost going through drive the deal. Warm, economical and fantastic to drive.
I have a Mito 1.3JTD. Hardly "warm" but holds its own both on the twisty stuff and the motorway. Feels like a bigger car and is quite quiet and capable at 70+. Pulls really well for a small Diesel and returns 60mpg+ (onboard trip)
I have done about 20k in mine over the last 8 months and gave up my Merc C class sport 7 speed auto to mrs Surfer given my longer commute, and I am quite happy to drive it each day.
Clio RS200.
beefheart - MemberClio RS200.
Given the lean towards running costs, I don't think he'll appreciate fuel economy in the low 20s
Agree with the above, supermini = fiesta, polo, clio etc, city car = up, aygo, 500 etc.
The fiesta is widely regarded as the best to drive so go for any of the 1.0t's. Great engine. The swift also has a good rep as a drivers car.
MX-5 😆
MX5 crossed my mind whilst on a dealership browse at lunch time 🙂
I must take a Feista for a spin. The glowing reviews come thick and fast and drivability is important to me. It's just that its looks do nothing for me, so to chuck 12k+ at one just seems a bit.. hard.
Mito's look nice, JTD's are usually strong. May take a peek
Fiesta, Clio, Corsa, Polo etc are all superminis.
Missus has a 140 Ibiza, it goes well.
Polo GTI - uses the 1.8 engine and canes the rest into submission 😉
+1 for the Swift Sport. I've always wanted one and always assumed they were as close to a go kart as a "normal" car can get (excluding the Elise, natch). The only reason I've not got one is that they're just too small to fit a bike in the back (actual owners may disagree, but having owned the bigger Suzuki SX4, I can't believe the Swift fits a bike in the boot).
That said I test drove a Focus with the 1.0 Ecoboost engine the other day and was very impressed. The Fiesta Ecoboost could be just the ticket and it definitely worth a test drive.
There's one on every car thread but, used to bet two bikes in the back of an AX GT...
Bikes were smaller in those days though.
Mito's look nice, JTD's are usually strong. May take a peek
You'd be better off looking at the whatever the Fiat equivalent is (500?) the smaller Alfas/Fiats are all the same cars underneath but with a price hike for the Alfa badge.
Polo GTI
Would they be the twin charged ones that seem to eat engines at a surprisingly high frequency?
Got to be the 500 Abarth surely?
aero roof bars + thule racks..
They've made boot size irrelevant to me for the last 5 years.
AX GT - ragged a gas flowed one of those years ago. Great fun. To my mind only the Swift Sport seems to fit the same kind of mould these days.
Stop me before I buy an Up Club!
Polo GTi way out of budget, as is Abarth 500 (if I could fit inside).
Swift Sport is last of a dying breed. Get one whilst you can. In a couple of years they will either disappear or will be fitted with a turbo.
Fiat 500 Arbarth. They are nuts fast little things.
Polo Gti is decent and the 'drivers choice' might be the Suzuki swift sport.... Less power by a long way but nicely set up for bends.
The Monte Carlo is basically just a styling option now for Skoda and after the disaster that is/was the 1.4 twin charger tfsi engine (fabia vrs, older polo gti) it seems Skoda have chosen to drop a vrs on smaller cars, shame.
Look at the fiat and the Suzuki.
You mention the up! And citigo I assume the seat mii has the same asmatic 3 cylinder lump?
Look for an older arbarth.
My wife has not long had a Seat Ibiza 1.2 TSI. Seems economical, drives nicely if not with the most 'feel'. 105PS I believe.
Buy 10 Clio 172s.
1.8 engine is not and never has been twin charge - that was the 1.4 that is now perfect. Only the early ones had an oilway issue - all sorted either under warranty or at service.
DS3?
I have a twin charger Skoda Fabia VRS with the later CTHE engine and they're fine cars. Maybe a bit bigger than what you're after but roughly Suzuki Swift sized. Just get something post 63 plate.
The Swift will be the only new one you can find I think- highly regarded too.
The real answer, cost no object, is the Fiesta ST.
I loved my DS3 THP150 when I had one - would definitely through that in to the mix.
Ignore the fact it's a Citroen; the DS range is built far better than the normal ones (which are actually very good now anyway).
Engine is the same as in a 1 series BMW as well if that helps (well, few small differences, but it was co-developed between Citroen/Peugeot and BMW)
the DS range is built far better than the normal ones (which are actually very good now anyway).
Have they started putting the pedals in the right place yet?
The CTHE model Fabia VRS I had was brilliant. Really good car and not slow in any scenario.
Was pretty good on fuel, too. Was getting real 40mpg.
Rachel
Love the Fabia - only available in 5 door - completely uncomfortable for me to get in and out of the bloody thing. Regratably removed from my wish list.
Swift
Handling is absolutely superb. Engine is a revvy little bugger that is surprisingly good!
Massive fun to drive, and can be made even quicker if you so wish.
If you don't want 17's then fit 16's although 15's seem to be very popular just now...
[Recommend what you own]
We have an Ibiza FR with the 1.4 tsi 140bhp. Its a brilliant little thing! Great to drive, 20 quid tax and it sounds good too! I think ours was 14k ish. Exactly the same under the skin as the Polo ecoGT something-or-other.
[/recommend what you own]
We looked at the Swift, but it was slightly too small for the family. Otherwise brilliant.
Polo GTI - uses the 1.8 engine and canes the rest into submission
I think you'll find the Fiesta ST disagrees! 😉
On another note, pick up a copy of Top Gear magazine. I tested loads of cars last year and found their reviews to be very accurate and they focus more on the actual drive compared to What Car who seem to value residuals, boot space and value above everything else.
You'd be better off looking at the whatever the Fiat equivalent is (500?) the smaller Alfas/Fiats are all the same cars underneath but with a price hike for the Alfa badge.
So you think the Mito is built on the same floor pan as the 500 😛
Almost all cars share parts you know.
Polo GTI - uses the 1.8 engine and canes the rest into submissionI think you'll find the Fiesta ST disagrees!
Either way, 180odd bhp takes you away from warm supermini.
Yes, it's always tempting to keep upping the power and upping the budget.. But I need to keep the price down as much as possible.
I genuinely don't know if I'll fit my ass into the narrow Swift seat but I'm going to book a test drive and find out. I've seen a few new ones at dealerships for just over 12k, which seems brilliant value if they live up to the reviews.
I'm driving an Up! Tomorrow as well as a Polo. Spent some time on CarWow today and had a few offers come back on a Polo R-Line, which if financing through the dealer can drop the RRP from 17.5k to 14.5k. Nice.
Fiesta with ecoboost is a great option. Swift is well thought of and the Fabia VRS Tdi is cracking.
Fiat 500 floorpan was sold to Ford for their KA.
Fabia VRS tdi is very, very old now though.
Rachel
I would give the 500 another look, the twin air comes in 85bhp and 105bhp versions which are both nippy and will run at motorway speed happily. My other half has the 85bhp version and is very happy with it. I can also comment on the mini as I own one (R56 1.6 cooper non S) it's prettying cheap to run at £120 a year for tax, returns 40-50mpg depending on how it's driven/if your on a run and servicing is reasonable.
I physically cannot fit into a Fiat 500.
Test drove a 75ps Up! at lunch time - lovely build quality, needs some juice to progress from a standing start then has a boost up to 30mph - and then.. not a lot.
Way to breathless for me im afraid, considering similar/better economy can be had for not much more.
So, that also writes off the Citigo and Mii.
We crunched some figures on the Polo R-Line (1.0/110bhp).. seems I can 'get onto one' for £191 PCM. Not that much more than the £150 budget I had originally self imposed - and has the looks and economy im after. However, turns out I could drive away a BlueGT with 150hp for £197 PCM.
This stretches my original total budget from circa 11k to 18k (! 🙂 !) - the lure of spreading the cost via PCP getting close to claiming another victim..
Paid off student loan recently so am unlikely to notice a drastic hit on my wallet - especially as my Megane is currently costing well over £1000PA to keep on the road.
The current shortlist:
Polo R-Line / Blue GT
Ibiza FR
Swift Sport
Possibly also considering:
Fiesta Ecoboost
"I physically cannot fit into a Fiat 500."
Time to change your forum name then ........................
I'm almost almost 16 stone, a little over 6 foot and can get the seat far enough back so I can't reach the pedals ... Just curious have to tried to fit in one?
*suddenly understands the 500XL*
😉
Cheers Pete, the name is an ironic moniker.
Yes, I tried to fit in one. The door aperture is tiny so its just plain uncomfortbale to back in, plus the bubbble shaped doors mean my head is too close to the window for comfort. The pedals are too close together for my liking and my left leg is impeded by center console.
I don't want a 500!
Thank you please.
I'm sure it's been suggested, and I know it isn't technically a supermini, but the Fiesta ST is the absolute best car released last year in any class.
For 20 grand (off the website, I bet you could blag it at a dealer for less) you get a car that does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, gets 40mpg and will fit a small family in it. This thing handles like it's a go kart that can't lose grip and you can overtake 95% of road drivers, people do not expect this thing to go the way it does.
Even hearing all of the reviews (which had nothing but praise for it) I didn't expect this thing to be as good as it is.
EDIT: In fact just use carwow if you are going to buy it new, I got my one for 17.5k and it was the ST-3, which is only slightly more expensive than the base model ST-1 off the ford website.
Less than 30mins ago I configured a CarWow search for the Fiesta ST (1)- first offer back, cash price £15,935, finance price £14,875
That's, erm, pretty good. Right?
You won't get more car for your money, that's for certain. Check out how much the ST-3 would cost. I'm a gadget whore and it was worth the extra couple grand for me.
I financed it anyway and it only worked out about 15-20 quid more a month and I felt it was a good price for the "best" one (it's all about that engine though).
I want to like the Fiesta ST, I really do. It hovered on the edge of my shortlist when [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/tell-me-what-car-to-buy-oh-wise-singletrackers ]looking for a new car [/url] but I just couldn't get excited by the shape. I've had Fords and I admire Fords, but I do find them a bit lacklustre in the looks and cabin departments. Definitely a head rather than heart purchase for me. I'd love to drive the ST though.
I don't mind the looks and I actually really like the interior, which happens to be the only part people fault (not through quality, but through design).
My biggest issue with the ST is the fact that the Fiesta was the most registered car last year which means that you are driving probably the most common car on the roads, which makes it worse for uniqueness than that German manufacturer everyone goes on about.
I know the feeling. I put a deposit down on a black 1 Series the other day, then noticed 3 parked in the office car park...the same colour!
I want to like the Fiesta ST, I really do. It hovered on the edge of my shortlist when looking for a new car but I just couldn't get excited by the shape
This x100
I like that they tried to make the front end smart in a DB7'esque way, but it still just doesnt look right to me.
And that dash, with all those fiddly buttons.. its gopping.
It would only be sold to me on a pure driving level - at which it apparently excels. So I will test drive one.
Just sold my Ibiza cupra for a grand total of £350 quid....170bhp, went like stink..
Could have got much more for it if it hadn't been yellow I reckon
For 20 grand (off the website, I bet you could blag it at a dealer for less) you get a car that does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, gets 40mpg and will fit a small family in it. This thing handles like it's a go kart that can't lose grip and you can overtake 95% of road drivers, people do not expect this thing to go the way it does.
12 years of progress and you get the equivalent of a Clio 182, but with more weight and some bluetooth - impressive 😉
Ha! That's one way of looking at it /\
Sat in an Ibiza tonight, couldn't get the ergonomics to work for me, nor was I swayed by its aesthetics, so think I'll be crossing it from 'the list'.
Sat in an Ibiza tonight, couldn't get the ergonomics to work for me
I find it 'odd' after the Galaxy in ours - really small windscreen! But it is mega comfy on long trips...
I'm a 'larger lad' and no issues with the seats in the Swift 🙂
I find it 'odd' after the Galaxy in ours - really small windscreen! But it is mega comfy on long trips...
I had seat on lowest setting and felt that my eyeline was far too close to the edge of the sun visor for my liking. Had a similar thing on a Peugeot 306 years ago and developed neck strain from subconsciously squatting my neck to compensate.
Other than that it was comfy, just didn't set my pulse racing at all.
Mini Cooper. How do we feel about them?
I like'em. There's some Mini hate on here, mainly because they're not as tiny as the original. Wait 'til they find out there's an Evoque cabrio.
I had two Mini Cooper SD diesels and they were faultless cars. Apart from tyres and screen wash they never needed anything in over 5 years of ownership.
My eldest offspring is about to start driving so I needed something cheaper that I could get him on the insurance for so I sold the Cooper and bought a '09 plate Panda 100HP for 2.5k.
Not regretting it so far - the little Panda is an absolute hoot to drive and nothing has fallen off yet.........
After all the fluff, I thought I'd test drive a fiesta ST when I was looking for a new car.
I discovered a few things.
Ford dealers are absolute shite.
The recaro seats fitted to them are really poor.
The Sony stereo fitted is a pile of tat.
I dont care how good they are to drive, I'm ooot
Luckily for me my local ford dealer is ace. The Sony stereo I might agree with as the one in our kuga is not as good as the standard ford one in the old focus, especially the dab signal.
We really liked our mini and nothing ever went wrong. It started to creak a bit after 5 years though, probably due to the busy dashboard and they really are impracticaly small apart from in the front (60 reg).
So lunch break today was a Fiesta and Mini adventure.
Humble pie time - Regarding the ST and Zetec-S models, The Fiesta is just great up close. I liked the interior WAY more than I thought I would and the ergonomics were fine.
Although, the Recaro's in the ST were way too pumped up and obtrusive for me. I was perched on top as opposed to sat inside it. Which is a real shame as the ST had up to that point become a very strong contender even prior to test drive.
However! The Zetec S (red edition, bit too bright) right next to it had virtually all the looks, with a much more comfortable sport seat. So, ive booked a test drive for next week.
If nit-picking, I dont like the rear drums specced on the Zetec S, i'd much rather see discs poking through the large alloy wheels (like on the ST).
It 'only' has 140bhp too, but in reality, the better economy over the ST is closer to my original brief.
Next up, the Mini Cooper. Oh my, what a little cracker that is inside. I'm not sure i've ever prefered an interior of any car as much as this one. Stunning quality, great ergonomics, bags of room, lovely switches and materials. This new model really is a step up in class.
Test driving booked for monday and have spoken about sourcing a 15 Reg bargain which they seem keen on, im just not sure I can quite get hold of one at the monthly figure im comfortable with.
As things stand its probably level pegging between Polo R-Line/GT, Mini Cooper and Fiest Zetec-S.
If the Feista drives as stonkingly well as its alleged, and with its rock bottom pricing (CarWow offering at £13,500), its suddenly hard to look past it!
All great cars! Don't think you can go wrong. I'm looking at similar, but may blow the budget and go for the Polo GTI (new 1.8 Turbo version).
As a heads up, check out some other broker sites as Car Wow is rarely the cheapest. My two favorites are:
- drivethedeal.com ; they have the Zetec S Black for £13,040, and Red for £12,620
- Oranegwheels.com ; not cheaper for this model
Remember that the deals are often based on taking the car through their finance. If paying cash you need to add the deposit contribution and other bits on top. It is however possible to take their finance loan and pay it off within a month in full. You don't get stung by their interest but retain the original lease benefits. Usually there is no early settlement fee. Lots of people do this for a variety of manufacturers, just double check their Ts&Cs. Takes a little bit of work but worth it. That's my plan when I get round to it.
If you don't have the cash, just take out a low interest loan- some are offering 3.3% for £7.5-15k (M&S, Sainsbury's), vs the VW 6.8%! No brainer.
Other cars to consider are the Peugot 208 GTI. It gets a good review. Bit of a left field choice though.
Glad you managed to find a few you like!
One thing I would warn is that I've heard less than great reliability stories from Mini owners - that could however be completely different with the new ones and you will be under warranty for a while anyway.
Unfortunately Mini's don't have the same BMW reliability, however they near enough share the BMW costs...
Thanks for the heads up, ive just seen the Zetec S in my prefered colour as follows:
FORD FIESTA HATCHBACK
Description
1.0 EcoBoost 140 Zetec S Navigation 3dr
Options
Privacy glass, Cloth - Charcoal black, Metallic - Deep impact blue
Price : £13,305.20
Theres currently an offer of just £99 for SatNav pask on Fiestas. Nice.
So, you just order straight through the website??
One thing I would warn is that I've heard less than great reliability stories from Mini owners - that could however be completely different with the new ones.
I've read horror stories too. Reason I went to look was I figure that if I am completely smitten by one (and can afford it), I would indeed be covered by warranty until I change it in 2 / 3 years.
Almost can't believe i'm sasying this, but for £13k I'm starting to think the Fiesta is the best option. Test drives next week will obviously help make my mind up.
Hmm, that specs coming up as £13,206.20 on Drive the Deal.
Yes, you order through them. They just act on your behalf to secure the deal.
Just so you know, the cars aren't always in stock.. some can be and others have to be built. Just talk to them and ask.
£99 extra for satnav pack 🙂
Isn't that "take finance, pay it off immediately" approach a legal right under the rules about cooling off periods ?
Ahh, right you are. Didn't spot that in the deal.
Whats the plan with the car? Buy it outright and own?
If so, check out the residuals and depreciation. The Fiesta isn't the best in that regard. The Polo holds its value fantastically well (as long as its not the bogo 1.0, 1.2 non-Tsi, or anything lower than SE). Some of them you could run depreciation free for a year!
Edit- Sundayjumper- you could be right. It's just not obvious to many that its an option. I did the same with my MSc career development loan. They were charging 9.9% interest! Sorted a 3.4% interest the next day and paid it off in full with no charge. Saved me over £1800.
The plan was ititially to pay off and own, but as the prospect of PCP has settled on me, the idea of changing every 2 or 3 years and remaining within warranty/MOT period has grown on me.
So with increased depreciation, you effectively pay more over the period of payment plan, as your potential asset is worth less than the agreed final value?