New (to me) car died - what do I do

Timing belt - were you told it was changed.

Was it overdue on milage and/or time

Which engine ?

Unless your exceedingly lucky and it was changed prior to sale or you have in writing it was changed to the book and not due for ages.... I expect your best option is to swap the engine.

 I expect your best option is to swap the engine.

This.

I do sub-£1k bangernomics myself and just change the oil and belts on all new (to me) cars. Sounds like you've just had some bad luck.

Unfortunately this ^^^

Engine from a scrappy?

If you check the AA small print, I expect it will state all the servicing has to be pretty much bang on in the service book. I've bought a car where the policy was void as the car was missing a stamp for its first service whilst owned by a dealership as a demonstrator!

Private sale or trader - not that it makes much difference after 6 months unless you were deliberately misled? Look at the wording of your AA warranty, and the recommended mileage for changing the belt vs the miles done.

Sometimes a new engine can be worthwhile - what car is it?

Engine from a scrappy?

Yep, or depending if it's a popular car; FB groups are great for cheap parts. I've had gearboxes for £50 from young lads on FB breaking Golfs etc. Then get the local garage to fit it for £150.

Hugely depends what car as to how much a replacement engine would be.

You’d have no comeback after 6 months though.

Thanks everyone good advice and gives me a few things to check/look into.

I think dads going to end sucking this one up.

FYI it's a 2010 ford Focus (1.6 Diesel).  Think it's done in the region of 85k miles, not sure of service history so will check that.

From a dealer or private sale?

"About" six months - more or less?

Shit one Op, but I don't think you have any chance with the seller unfortunately. It's a common car so if going with a SH engine sourcing one should be relatively simple. It's still a bit of a lottery though. But get a fitted price from someone first.

Tbh if it were me, I think I'd have to cut my losses, sell it as spares/repair, and buy something else. 🙁
There are some wild figures being quoted here.
150 to fit an engine? That's what, 3 hours on a 'super mega cheap garage' rate, with no consumables. Not a chance. Even if you meant the gearbox, that's still bloody cheap!
I'm not trying to pick holes, just make sure the op is aware of realistic costs.

150 to fit an engine?

Gearbox I said. But my point stands. It can be done one the cheap. But you have to eat the consequences if it goes wrong. Might only last a few months like others have pointed out.

My old 2006 Astra had break points on the rockers to try and stop the valves damaging the pistons. Might be worth checking to see if the engine is salvagable without a full rebuild??

How competent are you with spanners? Taking engines out isn't as scary as it looks, just get a Haynes manual, and set aside a full weekend for it. Might turn an uneconomical write off into a £300* learning opportunity.

*Plus, while you have an engine out the car it's worth replacing the cambelt, water pump, and probably the clutch (or at least the bearing), so budget for a fair few parts on top. And a few hoses etc.

Unlucky. It may be worth checking the service history if the timing belt has ever been replaced. The recommendation for those engines is 10 years or 140,000km's (87k miles).

Personally I would just get an ebay engine for £300 and fit it over a weekend.

If you cant DIY I would cost up options;

sell as is
fit second hand engine you supply
fit engine garage supplies
fit recon engine
etc

If you can only sell it for £1k as scrap, but can get a used engine fitted for £1k, then at least you would have a running car that is hopefully worth about £3.5k (or could be throwing good money after bad if you are unlucky)

You can get a second hand engine for one of those for £300-£400. Depends whether the garage is willing to fit an engine they do not supply, and your appetite for risk. If you supply a duff engine you are out the labour.

You might want to consider the cost of fitting a new belt to a second hand engine as part of your cost calculations as well.

I’ve twice had a local garage fit an engine bought from a scrap car. I never saw the engine they sorted the whole process . The second time they seemed to be able to access mileage of Donner etc.

In neither case was it cheap. But in both cases it solved a problem and I was happy with the outcome

That engine is in loads of cars (Volvo V50, Peugeot etc), so there should be loads knocking around. Definitely worth looking at a recon engine.
They have a notorious problem with the oil feed pipe / turbo so make sure that’s sorted if you go down that route.

I'm not buying it. Who buys a 3.6k car without knowing the service history? how is it possible to take out any sort of useful warranty without a service history?

"Dad's going to end up sucking this one up" and yet you say it's your sons car?

I'm guessing it's your car, your dad bought it for you and you trusted him to research it, then you took out a warranty assuming your dad had bought it with a proper service history.

Tell the true story, it'll make it simpler, and noone cares if your parents helped pay for your first car

I think you've misread this @reformedfatty seems clear the OP is the dad.

@reformedfatty you must get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions!

seems clear the OP is the dad.

This and that the reference to dad sucking it up is about him sorting it out for his son one way or another.

You've got to know a fair bit about cars and engines to spot holes in service history without quite a bit of model specific research. I've reviewed "fully stamped" books before to find cam belt changes and other scheduled mileage or time related items (including gearbox services) haven't actually been done on the receipts or that corners have been cut (e.g. ancillaries running off cambelt not changed). I'm also experienced in fixing and running older cars so I know what car killers I'm looking for. Even careful people would have to work quite hard to spot some of this stuff.

IIRC that 1.6d has pressed on cam lobes which spin on the camshaft when there's piston/valve interference. It might just need a pair of cams and a new timing belt.

reformedfatty thinks he's over on Pistonheads... I know you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet mate, but that doesn't mean you should disbelieve everything instead.

OP - as above, you could turn this into a decent father/son bonding and learning exercise if you have the time, tools and inclination. Engines start from £250 on ebay, would be relatively easy to swap it out but it all depends how hands-on you are.

Head doesn't need to come off as pistons are always okay. New cam - not a used one , some rockers, timing belt kit and it'll be fine.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCqlyWDrMjU

A. What's the car worth as scrap?
B. What would it cost to fit a used engine?
C. What would it be worth with a used engine fitted?

If A + B > C, then scrap it and buy another car.

Might as well fit a clutch plate if your going to change it yourself. Save doing it again in 9 mths.
Get a haynes manual, hire an engine hoist for a 3 day period.
Try and fimd an engine thats in a car so you can check the milage on the mot. Gov wesite.
Allow for belts, filters, fluid, oil plus specialist factory tools that are sometimes needed to pull the injectors or align the clutch.
You will need a good socket set for sure and probably a torque wrench

or just get the garage to change the cam and a few rockers......

these engines don't have a good reputation at the best of times, finding a good used one will be hit and miss. The OPs garage already sounds crap as they don't know about the pressed on cams 'safety feature' and have the written the car off.

The 'father and son bonding time' is pie in the sky - this isn't an A series or Pinto.

Is the 1.6 a PSA pug Citroën unit? Like the berlingo hdi etc?
Pop the cam cover get a torch, shpuld be able to see if the lobes have actually spun on the shaft. If there's no visible damage then yep new cam, belt, water pump if its belt drive,
Need timing in but thats bread and butter to any half reasonable mechanic.

My son's changed two engines so far, takes a bit of time, but can be done on the drve with a engine lift. Both engines bought via ebay for less than £500.

Sorry to hear it OP - seems the lottery of old cars. £3.5k isn't that much these days(!) on a car.
You are not going to get comeback on who sold it to you, and I'll place a bet the warranty isn't going to be much help either.
Time to do maths on sell as is and buy a replacement car Vs replace the engine.

I personally would not change an engine - experience says that the tools, time, problems and worry are just not worth it unless you're already tooled up and confident as home mechanic.

At 85k it's unlikely the belt will have been changed by the previous owner (and if it had been it wouldn't have failed), but at 12 years it's overdue. The AA might not cover failure to maintain to Ford recommended intervals. But from what others are saying it sounds worth digging a bit deeper into fixing it.

My son’s changed two engines so far, takes a bit of time, but can be done on the drve with a engine lift

Wasn't your son a trainee mechanic though.

While I can do it ...and agree it can be done.

I wouldn't recommend it for a first foray into car fixering esp with modern engine management

@reformedfatty maybe have another read of the op and subsequent replies. Engage your brain and feel free to apologise to the OP while you are there.

Head doesn’t need to come off as pistons are always okay. New cam – not a used one , some rockers, timing belt kit and it’ll be fine.

Even if the cam has some mechanism where it fails first, surely the piston smashing into the valves is likely to have damaged one or the other, and spat bits of metal into the combustion chamber?

I don't think I'd bother doing the belt, cams etc without knowing the inside is still good.

Watch from 10 minutes in then search the next one, IF it has a camshaft with lobes pressed on then new camshaft could sort it. he also shows how to check for possible valve damage

Even if the cam has some mechanism where it fails first, surely the piston smashing into the valves is likely to have damaged one or the other, and spat bits of metal into the combustion chamber?

Exactly. It'll depend on whether the engine has been designed so that the pistons won't hit the valves, even if the cam drive fails. I know that GM used to always design their engines that way decades ago, but the OP's post suggests that the engine is junk. If the pistons have hit the valves, the valves will be bent or broken and probably the pistons smashed too.

2nd hand engines from scrappy tend not to have ancillaries, so you'd also have to buy turbo, starter, alternator, etc etc etc
I got my 1.6tdci belt done at 10 years / 85k and the mechanic said it was looking worn, so there's not much leeway.

Might be worth taking the head off it 1st and see what it's done. Might get away with a few valves and followers

Some great responses and input, thank you.

Reformedfatty re;

“Dad’s going to end up sucking this one up” and yet you say it’s your sons car?

I'm the dad, trying his best to help his son with his first car.  Maybe not doing the best job to be honest, feeling I should have known better with the purchase, etc.  He can't afford to replace, unless the garage can sort it I won't be able to DIY, therefore me sucking it up and putting my hand in my pocket to help my son was my point of what I would do.

So I did help with paying for his first car and appreciate no one cares other than you thinking who bought the car has an influence of the problem at hand.

Anyway, tiny nibble from me.  The service book is pretty complete with stamps but no evidence of a timing belt change.  No receipts were included which is maybe part GDPR part not.  Maybe I call the garage(s) to find out the work they did.  I really don't know.

I'll speak to the garage tomorrow and see whether they can help further.  One question if people are still reading, any advice on how to maximise the scrap value please and ideas what it could be worth?

Thanks again STW, you've gone to some effort to help me.

I have nothing to offer other than... You've probably got no recourse from seller. And I got belt, water pump etc changed on 1.6hdi at 96k. Mechanic said it still looked brand new, but nothing in paperwork said it'd been changed and I think my berlingo just had a very good life before me, few garages have commented how good condition it is for age.

Also northern monk neopolitan IPA is very nice.

95% plus it'll need a cam and a few ancillaries only. common on these engines, chances of it needing a new engine are very slim but lots would say it was done for.

I'm not well up on these. If they spin the lobes you might be ok.

I'm always wary of garages who say just stick a motor in it mate....

I'd stick it on ebay with 99p start value and an honest description or find a ford specialist that can try and check if the engine is repairable.

I don't think there's a huge amount you can do to improve the value of it without doing some DIY fixes.

Personally I wouldn't faff getting a new engine put in unless you've got the time/skills to do yourself. Sounds like loads of potential issues to check and worries about who's responsible if it goes wrong etc.. I'd let someone else do all that.

Just search on ebay for *sold* listing to get an idea of value https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275348046040

You’ve probably got no recourse from seller.

... which is why I asked what I asked on the previous page. If it's from a dealer and inside of six months then you have the same rights as new.

Personally i'd work out if it's cheaper to buy son a new car or get the broken one repaired and put it down as an experience. I'd bet it's the repair, but it'll be finding a good mechanic that's prepared to install a 2nd hand engine and deal with any issues that may arise.

As others have said there's no recourse with the seller - it's six months on and the cam belt hadn't gone within days when you bought it.

First thing I did when I bought an old banger of a van on eBay for a grand earlier this year was to change the belts and full service. I had limited (no) recent service history as the previous owner had done it all him self. Its cost me far more than the value of the van in parts and labour with a bunch of different issues over the last few months (I've prob spent a further £1200) but I've now got a reliable van that I know is all up-to-date and I was prepared for it.

To give you another option.  My brother's car just failed its MOT in a fairly expensive way.  Main dealer only parts on 2-3 wk lead time which cost £1K+ fitting, + all the usual stuff that needs done on a car with 130K miles on it - so was going to be about £2K to keep a car on the road that would be worth £4K (perhaps 5 in current market).  Garage did say it would probably be possible to recondition the broken bit for a few hundred quid, but would likely take 3-4 wks.  As he needs car for work, and was planning to replace anyway he bought a replacement.  Scrappy offered £500 for it.  He put it on ebay with a completely honest description, lots of detail and its sold for ~£2.5K.  Been bought by a "dealer" - I suspect the sort of guy who does the work himself and has half a dozen projects scattered around the street!  Bodywork is all sound though, and paint work etc in VGC.

TLDR; If you don't want to do the engine swap yourself, consider selling as a project for someone who does.... you may be no worse off.

Sorry for last post, not quite sure what planet I was on. It's a rough lesson to learn to dig over the service history comprehensively - hope you manage to get some goodwill from the dealer.

"Scrap" prices are high at the moment but falling, a mix of strong commodity prices mean the recycling value is high, and the parts supply shortage coupled with more older cars being kept going due to lack of new ones / high prices means there's value in the parts too. I just got offered £400 for a knackered Berlingo.

But:

I'd take the cylinder head off myself personally before doing anything. The cambelt is already gone so at this point it's really just unbolting stuff, there's not much you can mess up. Then you'll know what needs doing and can get accurate quotes rather than it costing a few hundred quid just to diagnose if the engine is repairable.

If not, then ebay it for 99p and see what you get. It'll probably do better than you might expect as the buyer will be calculating their profit for the engine fix/swap at a fairly discounted labor rate. Then he can either spend that money on an older car and save up again if he wants something newer, or you could top it up. TBH I think the middle ground of car buying (>6 years old, >70,000 miles, 3rd owner) is a lottery. The weak bits on any car are starting to fail at random intervals by that point, and unlike 30 years ago the actual engine won't ever wear out so the difference between a 200,000mile car with it's 3rd cambelt and a 100,000mile car with it's 2nd isn't really all that much.

A small update on how this played out.

Fixing the car forward wasn't an option, I took the advice from the garage to cut my losses and not throw any more money at it.

On eBay it went for 99p as spares or repairs and ended up being sold for £1200 which was way above expectations.

The guy who bought it, collected it and that'll be the last I see of it.  All went smoothly.

Timing was good and we've already got my son sorted with a replacement and what looks like a way more appropriate set of wheels.

Happy all round and dad learnt a hard lesson.

Thanks again 🙂