New M2 Macbook looks a bit fruity.

I've had a 16Gb 8/8 M1 MBA since they launched (Nov 2020) and it's capacity to get stuff done, including video/image editing with loads of other apps running in the background, and extending to a 4k display, without any noise or effort still astounds me.

They absolutely nailed AS.

Yeah, just ordered a base-spec Mini to replace my ageing iMac for when WFH. Absolute no-brainer for the price, it's even cheaper than the original M1 Mini was when they brought that out in 2020. Inflation-busting pricing from Apple?! 🤔

Intel et al so far behind now it's unreal.

I've got the 16gb M1 Pro chipped Macbook Pro and it's amazing.
The nearest I've come to utilising it's power is doing some analysis on a million row spreadsheet for mrs ots.
It's slightly ridiculously over specced when usually the most taxing thing it does is drive a couple of monitors with browsers in them and run a MS Team call.

I loved the dual video out and pure grunt, but had to admit it was overkill so bought the M2 powered Air with more memory instead… still impressive, but nothing like the Pro

I see an M2 Pro mini in my near future. Again to replace an ageing Intel iMac.

No SCSI or Printer port, I'm out!

How is it meant to talk to my Zip drive or LaserWriterII?

No SCSI or Printer port, I’m out!
How is it meant to talk to my Zip drive or LaserWriterII?

Those were the days 🧐

Have a 16" M1 MBP from work and it's going back. The 16 inch model is too big for regular transportation duties - and heavy too. Processor gets a work out using R for simulation purposes (sadly SAS is not on M chipsets). It's fast but heavy, so I'll trade some speed for the 14". Or keep my z-book for simulation.

I have an M2 Air, loving it so far 😁👍

I had been planning to buy a refurbished M1 Mini to replace my 2015 MBP. But now I'm reconsidering!

I had thought that due to the pound tanking, the next lot would be stupid money. We're still getting rinsed (£649 in UK vs $599 (£484) in the US, but that's much better than I was expecting.

Have a 16″ M1 MBP from work and it’s going back. The 16 inch model is too big for regular transportation duties – and heavy too.

I have a colleague that got issued with one and she reports the same - a heavy lump to cart around.
My 14" is significantly heavier than the MBA it replaced, but I don't travel that much.

15” MacBook Air with M2 chip due later this year - saving my pennies! I’ve already got an M1 MacBook Air but it would be nice to have a bigger screen for illustration and graphics work.

So impressed with this hardware. Intel seem to have become a bit complacent of late.

It’s fast but heavy, so I’ll trade some speed for the 14″.

game-changer

Game changer? Really? Surely you'll be doing all the same things as before just somewhat quicker? So the game is going to be the same..?

Intel seem to have become a bit complacent of late.

Intel are working on the same concept that made M1 fast and efficient, because of course they are. Apple just got there second that's all.

I have a 14 inch MBP and it's not what I'd call heavy at all. Not ultralight but still light and a prett good form factor.

Intel are working on the same concept that made M1 fast and efficient, because of course they are. Apple just got there second that’s all.

Eh? Mansplaining?

Intel are working on the same concept that made M1 fast and efficient, because of course they are. Apple just got there second that’s all.

?? The M1 chip launched in November 2020. Intel don't seem to have caught up with that yet, let alone the chips released since

I see an M2 Pro mini in my near future. Again to replace an ageing Intel iMac.

the M2 is £650. The M2 Pro mini starts at £1400

that's an expensive machine unless you need the speed. I was looking at Mini's but no-one seems to make a really good display to work with Apple kit at the moment - everything except Apple's ludicrously expensive options seems compromised. I bought an M1 iMac in the end. What's strange now is that so few tasks actually push the processor - we have just stopped using a 2011 bottom of the range MacBook (8gb, but upgraded with an SSD) and for email/office/internet/streaming video/basic photo editing it was still fine.

Just popped over to Apple UK for a look-see and they've announced HomePod Mk2. Dolby Atmos with AppleTV for £600.

Just popped over to Apple UK for a look-see and they’ve announced HomePod Mk2. Dolby Atmos with AppleTV for £600.

The M1 chip launched in November 2020. Intel don’t seem to have caught up with that yet, let alone the chips released since

ARM did it first, for phones; Apple second and Intel or AMD will be third.

Lol. The M1/M2 [I]is[/I] ARM.

Apple have been using arm chips for a long time 🤷‍♂️

I need to replace my 11year old iMac... if one's choosing between a mac mini and iMac, are there affordable monitors available that match the iMac screen performance without spending the eyewatering apple monitor price tag?... for work where colour rendition is paramount, but non-pro level. I dig the iMac but separates make mores sense for longevity perhaps and that mac mini is a great price.

these'll run windows, right ?

(sort of 😉 )

Can’t believe no one has asked if they’ll run Flash

It’s fast but heavy, so I’ll trade some speed for the 14″.

14" M1 is still pretty heavy when compared to the older MBPs. I went from an older 16 to 14 and much prefer the smaller size, but the 14 feels heavier to me.

Macbook Air is like a sheet of paper in comparison.

@endoverend

I read a load of different sites like this a few months back when I was buying (since I was going to use my own keyboard and mouse) and concluded that no, there were no monitor options that 'integrated' properly with a Mac and with a decent built in webcam and audio. I'm still surprised that Apple dont make a screen that lets you do 'apple screen' plus mini for a few hundred more than the equivalent iMac.

The iMac is a lovely thing and computers 'last' a lot longer than they used to

For the sake of thousand quid, just put a normal webcam on top of a normal monitor. It might not be quite as well integrated, but it works perfectly well

Are there not second hand Apple screens available? I haven’t checked, but I’d have guessed the screen would work for longer than just about any other part.

As I understand it, the M1 concept is having fast cores and separate high efficiency cores, which is a phone thing. and Intel are working on a version of it as well. Apple bought some ARM IP for the M1 and did some themselves.

Intel released their first attempt in 2021. Now on their second release.

Apple M2 vs Intel Core i9 13th Gen - Tech Journeyman

@endoverend Have a look at the LG Ultrafine range, £600-ish.

molgrips

Intel are working on the same concept that made M1 fast and efficient, because of course they are. Apple just got there second that’s all.

Exactly, Intel the largest PC chip manufacturer in the world got their arses completely handed to them two years ago (by a company with absolutely no history of making laptop/workstation chips) because they were being complacent and now they're desperately scrabbling to catch up.

Exactly, Intel the largest PC chip manufacturer in the world got their arses completely handed to them...

As I understand it (and I'm happy to be corrected because I'm not a hardware guy), the ARM chips make their gains in increased efficiency rather than increased power, mainly because they removed all the bloat that made them compatible with legacy software and redesigned them specifically for modern systems. To Intel it was too much of a compromise. Less so to Apple. Apple have just forced the competition.

Just popped over to Apple UK for a look-see and they’ve announced HomePod Mk2. Dolby Atmos with AppleTV for £600.

odd that its back, slightly cheaper and with nothing really changed,

I've got two mk1 running in stereo, I like them

butcher

As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected because I’m not a hardware guy), the ARM chips make their gains in increased efficiency rather than increased power, mainly because they removed all the bloat that made them compatible with legacy software and redesigned them specifically for modern systems. To Intel it was too much of a compromise. Less so to Apple. Apple have just forced the competition.
Posted 10 minutes ago

ARM have been targeting power efficiency very successfully for a long time with innovations like big.LITTLE etc.

Intel do have CISC baggage to deal with which adds complexity to their chips, however there is no fundamental reason why Intel could not have implemented similar innovations for mobile chips that ARM did.

The specs on the 2 base Mac mini models are identical except for an extra 256GB of SSD storage for an extra £200. My late 2018 Mac mini still runs like a dream still but occasionally gets short on memory (8GB) so if you want more memory on these new models that will be another £200 to upgrade to 16GB of memory.

Have they kept the base price low and bumped up the cost of the upgrade options?

Exactly, Intel the largest PC chip manufacturer in the world got their arses completely handed to them two years ago (by a company with absolutely no history of making laptop/workstation chips) because they were being complacent and now they’re desperately scrabbling to catch up.

I don't think they were being complacent. As above, they were on a particular track, and Apple weren't. However they didn't really get their 'arse handed to them' as you say. Apple fans tend to be focused on shiny expensive consumer laptops, but Intel (and AMD) make the CPUs for almost everything else in the world bigger than phones and tablets.

Also, be sceptical about the hype; the benchmarks that show Apple destroying Intel are a bit cherry-picked according to some. Don't get me wrong, M1/2 is a great innovation, but it's not as big of a deal as some people make out. I have an M1 MBP and whilst it's a lovely machine, my life has not changed at all. Well that's not really true - I have given up trying to run stuff in Docker containers because it's a royal pain in the balls.

slightly cheaper and with nothing really changed,

Lighter weight, bit smaller, 2 fewer tweeters and a fancy pair of sensors (heat/humidity and ambient sound). I would like to try a pair as Atmos speakers with the TV but not just yet.

On the webcam front there's a bracket by Belkin (£25) that clips to the top edge of the screen to mount your iPhone into as a very expensive webcam supported by the OS (Ventura).

Have they kept the base price low and bumped up the cost of the upgrade options?

I don't think so. £200 incremental upgrades for RAM and storage have been the norm for a while I think.

molgrips

I don’t think they were being complacent. As above, they were on a particular track, and Apple weren’t. However they didn’t really get their ‘arse handed to them’ as you say. Apple fans tend to be focused on shiny expensive consumer laptops, but Intel (and AMD) make the CPUs for almost everything else in the world bigger than phones and tablets.

Also, be sceptical about the hype; the benchmarks that show Apple destroying Intel are a bit cherry-picked according to some. Don’t get me wrong, M1/2 is a great innovation, but it’s not as big of a deal as some people make out. I have an M1 MBP and whilst it’s a lovely machine, my life has not changed at all. Well that’s not really true – I have given up trying to run stuff in Docker containers because it’s a royal pain in the balls.

Yes Intel were on a particular track where they made mediocre mobile chips which ran too hot, they didn't bother to innovate, because they were complacent. They didn't think anybody would come in and completely rinse them like Apple did with the M series.

I don't really have any investment in the Apple world, I have owned a few Macs but really I just like interesting tech. My current personal systems are a Ryzen based Legion 5p and an i7 HP Envy. My phones are android, in general I do not particularly like the Apple way of doing things.

So that said, I think you either haven't used a system these chips or have some other agenda against Apple. They are absolutely awesome bits of kit. Genuine all day battery life even when actually driving them hard, passive cooling, performance is fantastic, just really really good.

Compare and contrast to my Envy (with an 11th gen i7), which half the time has the fan going full blast and the base getting so hot i can't keep it on my lap, even on light tasks like web browsing.

Genuine all day battery life even when actually driving them hard

That is the main benefit I've seen on this M1.

Compare and contrast to my Envy (with an 11th gen i7), which half the time has the fan going full blast and the base getting so hot i can’t keep it on my lap, even on light tasks like web browsing.

That is a software issue and nothing to do with Intel.

EDIT Unless you mean that driving the Intel machine harder makes it hotter - which is true (but perhaps not in all cases), however no laptop should be running hot when browsing the web, that's usually caused by rogue software.

Compare and contrast to my Envy (with an 11th gen i7), which half the time has the fan going full blast and the base getting so hot i can’t keep it on my lap, even on light tasks like web browsing.

My 12th gen i7 laptop has the hybrid performance architecture. It's fanless with no heat issues if you are just browsing, email etc. Gets warm if you start photo and vid editing. So Intel is getting there I think. Keen to try a 13th-gen. All chips will run hot eventually I guess. Isn't the Mac Studio full of fans?

Wife is still on a 10yo Intel MBA here - that definitely could do with swapping for an M1 one.

"just" all day battery life apparently not-game changing enough, let alone massive energy-efficiency savings , in this day & age 😂

Isn’t the Mac Studio full of fans?

The problem for Intel I guess is they can't make too radical an architecture change without getting all the major hardware & software players on-board too at the same time, no point bringing out the worlds most efficient/fastest chip if it won't run Windows 😃. Apple's "closed" system - which has actually always been one of their biggest strengths - obviously a huge advantage here. I'm sure they're huge financial resources didn't hurt either - they actually tried something similar in the 90s with the PowerPP chip but even with IBM on board couldn't quite pull it off.

molgrips

EDIT Unless you mean that driving the Intel machine harder makes it hotter – which is true (but perhaps not in all cases), however no laptop should be running hot when browsing the web, that’s usually caused by rogue software.

yes, that's what I mean (but my gut feel is the i7 is also using more power at idle). It's not a software thing.

The posts from Jamze about the 12th gen i7 and the earlier linked article about the 13th gen are encouraging.

Maybe 'complacency' is overstating it, I just feel like intel need a kick up the arse every now and then, be it from apple (m1) or AMD (k5, k6, Opteron & Ryzen spring to mind!)

My HP z-book i9 runs 50w at idle and has a battery life of about an hour or so. It needs a 150W charger to charge the battery because standard usb-c 80W chargers don’t give enough power. The fan could as well be a hair dryer. The case has warped due to the heat. I don’t recommend!

We’ll see how the M1 Pro runs for similar duties, although I know that office is not as well integrated. Going somewhere (by which I mean a meeting room at work) without the half kilo charger would be nice.

At home I have a 2012 Unibody MBP i7 that runs fine. Battery life is ok, but it is a heavy beast for the lap. Doesn’t get too hot. I bought it used for Son1 to run some unix code a few years ago. I like it.

these’ll run windows, right ?

Yes, sort of. I have Parallels on my Apple M1 which runs Windows (10, then 11). All so I could continue to use AppleWorks, a 1990s Apple programme (ClarisWorks) which no longer works on Macs… circular economy?

(but my gut feel is the i7 is also using more power at idle). It’s not a software thing.

Well it is, largely because even when you aren't doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things. And that can vary.

Maybe ‘complacency’ is overstating it, I just feel like intel need a kick up the arse every now and then, be it from apple (m1) or AMD (k5, k6, Opteron & Ryzen spring to mind!)

I'm sure they have developments planned into the future and release them when they're needed, rather than all at once. They probably just got the planning wrong, possibly because Apple kept it secret.

because even when you aren’t doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things.

Tell me you know bugger all about computers without telling me you know bugger all about computers...

its been a gamechanger for me, running ML models, video / photo editing (inc some very punchy AI driven processing), 3d rendering, stuff that took minutes now takes seconds, stuff that took hours now takes minutes. Battery lasts all day when previously a resource intensive task would rinse 10-15% in minutes. And it doesnt heat up or spin fans ever. I'm lucky enough to get a new mac through work every year and this is the best upgrade in > 10 years.

Keyboard still sucks.

Oh and yeah, Docker is still a dog, but I understand that's due to some OSX funadmentals that isn't going to change ever. I've given up, if I need to spin up a system with more than 3-4 containers ill just do that in a linux VM in t'cloud.

TBH I’m missing the old 27inch iMac configuration.

I’m hanging out on a purchase as I’d like the new monitor and a studio, I suppose the only downer is the whole unified memory thang stops you adding extra memory.

I’ll have to dig deeper into the docker issue as our company is heavily into it (dev laptop spec 64gb memory)

Is there any reason to get the 2022 M2 MacBook Air, over the 2020 M1? Price difference is a couple hundred quid. Usage is largely admin, some video conferencing etc.

I prefer the shape of the M1 Macbook Air, the tapered edges make it feel smaller. But the differences are better screen, high def camera (for video conferences) and slightly faster. Oh and full size function keys and magsafe 3 rather than USB-C only charging. The Space Grey M1 had £100 off recently, so £300 cheaper. They pop up on the Apple refurb site too with £150 off list price.

I think they'll go back to the slimmer tapered MBA eventually. Fells retrograde to me.

Thanks @Tired!

molgrips

Well it is, largely because even when you aren’t doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things. And that can vary

You should borrow a laptop with this hardware (or better still, an intel MacBook and an m1/m2 MacBook so you have a direct comparison) before you continue to post on this topic.

This is categorically nothing whatsoever to do with software.

Also, be sceptical about the hype; the benchmarks that show Apple destroying Intel are a bit cherry-picked according to some.

I think cherry-picked is beyond generous. Weren't they showing charts pretending to be direct performance comparisons, but were actually performance 'per watt' of M1 mobile vs desktop replacement intel cores. Reality was the M1's raw performance was considerably behind the intel desktop replacement range and had the same performance per watt as intels equivalent 'all day battery' range.

Nothing special about Apple kit. Lots of people change a three year old £400 Acer for a new £999 MacBook and are somehow surprised it's a bit slicker.

no idea, like I said, I get a new one every 12-18 months from work. I dont look at any benchmarks or reviews. The M1/M2 are crazy better than the previous intel ones for real life use.

Keyboard still sucks.

The M1/M2 are crazy better than the previous intel ones for real life use.

For YOUR real life use. Mine just has better battery life and won't run most of our software in containers 🙂

There seems to be a bit more to it than 'it's faster'. I suspect that the newly built software is very well optimised for certain tasks that the M1/2 is really good at. Which is no bad thing - having essentially only one CPU/GPU/architecture to design for allows you to do some really cool things with it, I expect and that's a strong benefit.

Infra team moved the iOS build servers to M1 chips this afternoon. 1hr compile time is now 5 mins which is gamechanging for our build measure learn loop.

I'm a deeply cynical CTO, but these chip really are great.

I have been looking at Macbooks as I am sick of the partial absence seizures that Windows is prone to. The thing that puts me off is that the the price increases quite quickly when you spec more memory and a decent size hard disk. How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?

Depends what you want to do (as always) but 16GB RAM and a 512GB HD is going to be pretty handy for general (even quite heavy) usage and not overtaken by more demanding system updates in the immediate future.

(That's what I'm looking at anyway).

When the M1 MBP first came out, I got one (13' 16Gb 512Gb SSD) to replace my slowly dying 2014 13 MBP for productivity mainly.

Quite a revelation to say the least, the performance and battery life compared to my Windows Asus ROG Flow X13 (AMD 5900HS 16Gb) for Lightroom and Premier Pro, for a similar form factor and weight.

The later 14' do look tasty, but hopefully this one will last just as long as my previous Intel MBP and the PowerPC MBP before that one.

How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?

Really depends on use and personal preference.

I have an M1 Macbook Pro for work with 32Gb ram.

Bought the lowest spec Macbook Air for personal use and I can't say I can really tell the difference for day to day use.

256Gb SSD isn't going to be storing a lot but storing stuff directly on your machine is a bit old fashioned these days anyway. The 8Gb ram was my main concern but they're so efficient I don't really expect it to be an issue for a few years yet.

I kinda figured for the price of the Pro, or upgrades, I can just buy another Air in a few years if I need to.

How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?

8Gb is plenty for most everyday consumer tasks, but upgrading to 16Gb for £200 gives that extra bit of future proofing.

HDD really depends on what you're going to keep on the machine and how much cloud you use.

FTR I opted for 16/512 then after a few months picked up a Samsung T7 1Tb SSD for £100. Latter houses all my FCP projects and they run almost as fast off the drive as they do natively - any difference is negligible. This equates to 1.5Tb for £300 instead of 1Tb for £400.

8Gb is plenty for most everyday consumer tasks, but upgrading to 16Gb for £200 gives that extra bit of future proofing.

I’m hanging out on a purchase as I’d like the new monitor and a studio, I suppose the only downer is the whole unified memory thang stops you adding extra memory.

Oh and yeah, Docker is still a dog, but I understand that’s due to some OSX funadmentals that isn’t going to change ever.

How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?

Mark Payne has a couple of good videos comparing the Air and Pro and on how much RAM you need. He's a heavy Logic Pro user but makes useful comments for users with less demanding requirements too.

He also talks about using external SSDs for project work as @spacemonkey mentions. My current (dying) mid 2012 Pro has a 1Tb hard drive but a huge chunk of that is the Music (was iTunes) library which could easily be moved to an external drive (or NAS if I could be arsed) and I reckon 512Gb would be fine for me. I've tossed about the idea of going 256Gb and then using external drives but I think having more internally is just that bit more convenient.

So I reckon the cheapest I could get away with would be an M1 Air 8/256 at £999. 8/512 would be £1199. M2 8/512 is £1549 - newer chipset, better screen, MagSafe port.

Hmm.

I think cherry-picked is beyond generous. Weren’t they showing charts pretending to be direct performance comparisons, but were actually performance ‘per watt’ of M1 mobile vs desktop replacement intel cores.

Every presentation I saw showed both direct comparison and per watt. I guess someone with an agenda just picked out the per watt graph and went "LOLZ at silly Apple".

Reality was the M1’s raw performance was considerably behind the intel desktop replacement range and had the same performance per watt as intels equivalent ‘all day battery’ range.

Hmmm, really? Seems totally at odds to everything I've ever read (to put it extremely mildly).

What is really amusing it that within Apple's own line-up, the £649 M2 Mac Mini out performs the £5,499 Intel Mac Pro.

I think the issue is Apple does not include the full picture on its comparison charts. It omits performance data of competitors.

https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/31/m1-ultra-gpu-comparison-with-nvidia/

I think the issue is Apple does not include the full picture on its comparison charts. It omits performance data of competitors.

... £200 is actually quite a big jump so just went for the base spec as it’s only for home use.

The £200 also assumes you're paying full price. Plenty of discounts around from other suppliers who only sell the base model. It would've cost me an extra £300 to upgrade. That's a lot of money for 8gb ram.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">but with the M1 you are getting decent performance for way less energy & at less cost.</span>

Which is great and impressive. But Apple did stand up on a stage and say 'delivering faster performance than even the highest-end PC GPU'. Which it doesn't.

What is really amusing it that within Apple’s own line-up, the £649 M2 Mac Mini out performs the £5,499 Intel Mac Pro.

This has literally happened to a data scientist pal, they brought in the new mac mini from home 😂

But Apple did stand up on a stage and say ‘delivering faster performance than even the highest-end PC GPU’. Which it doesn’t.

to crush my own vibe:

https://www.macworld.com/article/1485237/mac-security-t2-chip-macbook-activation-lock.html

“millions” of MacBooks that have been “condemned…to death”

Or to put it another way... no point stealing a MacBook, because you need the owner to unlock it before you can sell it on.

to crush my own vibe:

https://www.macworld.com/article/1485237/mac-security-t2-chip-macbook-activation-lock.html/blockquote >

To summarise that article; you have to remove the device from your iCloud/"Find My Mac" account before you sell it. As has been the case for iPhones for many years without issue. Clickbait BS.

 

Yeah, crush what vibe? It’s a security feature 🤷‍♂️
EDIT: plus sounds like the guy complaining about it has been making his living from stealing or otherwise illegally obtaining unwanted machines that (for whatever reason) had been earmarked for destruction? 😀

Plenty of discounts around from other suppliers who only sell the base model.

Who?

“millions” of MacBooks that have been “condemned…to death”

Strange that Macworld posted that yesterday. I read about it months ago and Bumsted's tweet is from January last year.