our mates a builder and has accounts with mkm and howdens, so said if we get a kitchen from them he can get it a bit cheaper and sub out to a kitchen fitter.
we've had both round, got the mkm quote, and going to howdens saturday for the er..... hard sell 'presentation'.
kitchens about 3m square, mkm quote comes in at 10k with decent worktop, 7.5 with laminate. first of all, wowzers, is worktop really that expensive? a very rough guess is around 6-7m needed, but 3 different directions so i guess 3 lengths.
secondly, maybe im living in the past, but 10k? for a 3m square kitchen? by the time we've paid for new floor and wall tiles and fitting, its going to be a pretty penny.
both have said their first price is just an initial quote and they expect to have us knock it down, and howdens have said theyll beat mkm's quote, so i guess there can be a bit of playing one off against the other but still.....
tempted to have a go myself, but i swore id never do it again after fitting our last one 😀
lastly, if worktops are the deal-breaker, are there any online alternatives that might be a little more palatable? we'd really prefer solid ones rather than laminate as our last ones chipped on the edges and looked crap after a couple of years.
cheers
Worktop Express is who I've used before.
Kitchens are expensive, which is ridiculous considering how simple the bones of them are.
Compare the cost of getting what you need from DIY Kitchens. I've used their carcasses several times and like them.
I bought our granite secondhand and cut it into match it all up. Getting people to do worktops seems spendy.
Solid wood? If you can take care of it? Easy to work with and cheap (ish)
I bought our granite secondhand and cut it into match it all up.
I'm curious, what do you cut granite work top with?
An angle grinder?
How do you cut it straight?
How did you move it?
My wife is campaigning for a new kitchen. I've looked at the price and am suddenly even happier with our current fully operational kitchen
Solid surface worktops are around £400-500 for a linear meter. There’s quite a cost for templating and fitting included in that. Laminate worktops from Howdens are £100-200 per length, plus around £500 fitting fee from a kitchen fitter.
£10k isn’t unusual for a kitchen these days, especially with solid surface.
Bought from DIY Kitchens for our self-build 4 years ago - it was half the price that Howdens quoted (thinner carcass, flat-packed, not built). The builder pushed us to Howdens - they even created their own design without even consulting with us and got all sniffy when we told them we wanted something different / on a fixed budget but they wouldn’t tell us how much it was. After weeks of back and forth they finally came back with a design that was twice our budget - told them to sling it. The other benefit of DIY was that they do more cabinet widths and heights so you can make more/better use of your space - Howdens units were shorter and couldn’t offer an infill panel to the ceiling, which just looks shite/is a dust trap - I have a 5m wall of floor-to-ceiling cabinets. Howdens also charge £10/unit for ‘soft close’ hinges - it’s a £1 click-on damper.
I bought a quartz worktop from Worktop Express. I sent them a detailed drawing and they sent me a drawing with errors back. Got that fixed but it then disappeared in transit for a few weeks before finally arriving in 3 parts - it was only packed on a flimsy pallet. Fortunately the crack was mainly hidden by the induction hob and couldn’t face another 4 weeks of unfinished kitchen. Some of the finishing on edges was poor. I’ve had custom granite and marble installed previously so was a bit disappointed - but it was relatively cheap.
It was £8k for the kitchen - 2x 5m of cabinets, and £1k for the worktop
I can't bear the pricing structure of those kitchen companies. Think of a number, add a bit, then give a random discount, then another discount if you ask nicely. Much prefer dealing with IKEA. Everything has a price. You can easily see if something is expensive, swap some options, try different layouts and get an instant price.
I did put in our kitchen. Way, way less than 10k. My dad came over and helped build cabinets. We had them fitted in a day. Worktops were a bit trickier but probably another day in bits. Went for wood, not the most durable but I like the way it it wears and it's easy to touch up.
Would do the same again (although not with my dad unfortunately). I'd never go to one of those "trade only" type places.
Get Howdens to price match DIY kitchens? Definitely haggle.
I worked there for the last 8 months.
Try someone local to you for the quartz. It’ll be a lot cheaper than Howdens.
Howdens carcasses are prebuilt, saves the fitter time ( and you money) although they do sell flat pack, it is cheaper?
There is a big price difference between the frontals. The carcass is the same whichever range you pick.
our Ikea kitchen is ten. there are some minor damaged areas but overall it's going strong. the worktop is ok, but has faded / scored to white if that makes sense. It's a walnut laminate with an underglued sink.
Since the original install i've removed two carcass and swapped them around to install a dishwasher. the big drawer is now ever so slightly off level.
Howdens prices for us were absolutely mental. 18k for a small kitchen with MDF fronts and quartz worktop, no appliances. Our builder was gobsmacked.
Went to DIY kitchens, ordered too much so we had some units to alter (nothing in our house is square) and it was less than 8k (without worktops, but solid wood fronts) for worktops we used a local company who were great (Planet Granite near Coventry) they were great, measured everything with fancy lasers, and the resulting quartz top fits our wonky house perfectly. We would have loved wood, but everyone I know with wood worktops seems to regret it.
Depending on your employer, check their discount schemes, my wife's scheme gave her significant discounts off various suppliers.
Unfortunately kitchens aren't cheap, but there's no need for them to be Howdens prices
My recent Ikea kitchen was around £5k without appliances, 15 units in total. Worktop is an amazing looking granite, 3 sections totalling about 5.5m with 200mm upstands instead of tiling. That was £2.4k. Very happy with both. Could not fathom the other bit of granite I saw in the van after they fitted mine. Plain black seems utterly pointless.
It's been about 6 years now since I bought Howdens kitchens and worktops.
The units were ok but the worktops are the biggest pile of donkey poo ever.
Two different kitchens and both have got the top surface of the worktop lifting away from the worktop base.
When cutting one of them it looked like glass mixed in with the wood 😱
DIY Kitchens & Worktop Express worked well for us, id definately use the same combo again
Ive got IKEA in my utility. And wren in my kitchen.
They were bought 6 months apart. Unit for unit the IKEA was considerably more expensive and I fitted both. The IKEA is thin and flexible and it makes for fitting fun. The front door of the big floor to ceiling unit has warped after 4 years due to lack of hinges along it's length. 2 cabinet hinges and it really should be 4.
The wren units on the other hand are thicker carcass and doors more rigid as new despite much more use.
15 units ,2 under drawer set, and 3 lengths of 40mm oak , AEG hob and double oven , crap CDA fridge and neff dishwasher. 7k
6 units in the utility from ikea - 1.5k not including solid oak worktops that came from worktop express. 2 of the doors arrived damaged.
But it was a whole lot more convenient than wren.
Didn't bother with a quote from Howdens
Would probably use DIY kitchens next time.
We got an IKEA kitchen fitted 2 years ago, and we're very happy with it. The units are solid - nothing like the cheap 'n cheerful Billy bookcases or whatever, they're decently built. The design process was excellent, with a clear breakdown of costs etc. The worktop's laminate, and seems fine, although the plastic bit that sits on top of around the edge against the wall (to stop water/crumbs/dirt getting down behind the back of it) is a bit crap. It'll be cheap and easy to fix if need be in the future, though.
So yeah, another vote for IKEA.
My only advice would be to avoid black granite. I hate ours.
DIYK online planner useful for baseline pricing (don’t forget to click the VAT and panels buttons). Howdens and I expect Wren will price match DIYK.
There’s an FB group that’s useful for ideas and cost fiddling even if you don’t end up choosing DIYK. I’d link, but putting anything other than text on here ended up in the too fiddly bucket.
When herself went part time and took pension there was a budget for a new kitchen. We approached a local place and asked for a quote. The very nice man took a lot of measurements and started marking paper out. Herself then says she want to spend less than £25k! The very nice man said £20k would just about buy the cabinets, no worktops, appliances or any other nice to haves!
We apologised for wasting his time and said he had better go. We were shocked at the costs of units locally made in some type of particle board.
I can strongly recommend that a new kitchen is not fitted in December. Just don't, really!
seems to be a lot of love for DIY Kitchens so ive been playing around with the planner, but im not having much joy, so maybe better to let the experts loose on it.
also had a look at IKEA as yes id prefer the price to be the price rather than that silly 'discount' game that they all seem to play. i suppose i just dont know what size units would go where, its hard to tell the quality without viewing in the flesh, howdens and MGM are local, we've been to view, and my mate has an account with both.
im still half tempted to fit it myself tho, altho thats only cutting out the cost of my mate/subbie, the kitchen will still cost the same.
and id prefer ready built units so only the doors to fit. wife would like oven on the other side of the room too so thats electrics to fiddle with too.
no, i wouldnt choose a wooden worktop either, we really would like solid resin/quartz/whatever and just choose the cheapest version of that.
i'm off to howdens in the morning, determined not to play the game, im almost certain i'll be walking out without a deal. i suppose it makes it easier that ill be on my own, so "ill have to check with my wife first" 😀
thanks for all the advice and suggestions, much appreciated.
We had IKEA units installed in our kitchen back in 2017-2018. IKEA anniversary discount too if I remember correctly. Solid wood worktops.
only problems so far:
- mismatched stainless steel bar/handle on one of our cupboards as we had brought that from our previous house and didn’t think to replace it at the time.
- ‘twirly whirly’ shelves in corner cabinet lower mount screws worked loose last year. I need to get around to putting some bolts in.
- cleaners robustly clean the wooden worktops so I need to re-oil them more frequently than I’d like.
- Our cockatoo sometimes like to chew the worktop edges. Easily fixed with some sanding and oil. Not sure we’d get the same OK outcome with resin
installation - our joiner/builder friends did this well. Their complaint was that the cupboards do not have a void at the rear for cables and pipes and the like.
A friend in Belgium went for the same wooden worktops and, annoyed by spillover from their sink, used yacht varnish to finish them. Looked very good.
If I were buying again I’d consider stone or glass worktops but the wooden ones have worked well so far and made replacing a range with a hob very easy and fairly cheap
Howdens kitchens are shit. They dont last well and their pricing/discounting is a joke. I wouldn’t touch them. There are much better big co kitchens both uk made or German. We’ve had magnet, mereway (the most solid, used to supply John Lewis but went bust last year) and Schuller. Key is finding someone who’ll do supply only as there’s loads of scope to discount (the company’s we’ve used don’t seem to be about but a search foundthis)
Much prefer dealing with IKEA. Everything has a price. You can easily see if something is expensive, swap some options, try different layouts and get an instant price.
this. I know people who make high end doors and fi them to ikea carcasses. They’re flat pack, so you’re doing more work but all solid if fitted well. Doors are pretty good.
worktops - find a local worktop supplier and go direct. Any kitchen supplier will outsource it and add a mark up.
I disagree with the above TBO.
I’ve been fitting Kitchens and Bathrooms for 30 years and have fitted countless Howdens kitchens. They’re ok, not the best, not the worst. They’re easy to fit if you have the basic skills required. The cabinets are mostly sturdy and more importantly everything is available either straight away or within a few days if (when) mistakes or damage occurs. A good fitter will get a good, long lasting product, unfortunately a lot of people have theirs fitted by their builder, which may or may not have the small details (the ones that matter) ironed out, which is what makes it last.
Most kitchen suppliers have positives and negatives, but I’d have a Howdens in my house long before I’d fit an Ikea, Wren, B&Q or Wickes. I’ve tried DIY Kitchens, but just found their site confusing and when all priced up, like for like; not actually that cheap.
These days I mostly fit Hacker kitchens from Germany via a design house I sub for, which are in a different price point and you can tell, night and day different to UK made stuff.
Bloody hell! We 'only' paid £25k for an 6m x 6m kitchen – including removal of a load bearing wall and steels put in, appliances, flooring, final fix, plastering, decorating, the lot – and the kitchen units themselves were higher quality than Howdens etc (some German make from a local independent kitchen installing company).
We had a Howdens kitchen fitted about 3 yrs ago. We went for acrylic over quartz/granite. It was a a fraction of the price and looks ace.
The problem we had was that several of the appliances we wanted had 12 months lead time due to the post-covid chip shortages. Hopefully that's not an issue anymore!
A good fitter will get a good, long lasting product, unfortunately a lot of people have theirs fitted by their builder, which may or may not have the small details (the ones that matter) ironed out, which is what makes it last.
….
These days I mostly fit Hacker kitchens from Germany via a design house I sub for, which are in a different price point and you can tell, night and day different to UK made stuff.
The ones I’ve seen were well fitted, but seemed to show their age quickly. On was a sprayed “handle less” with a groove handle at the tip of the door. Because it was machined mdf the finish in the handle was crap (not smooth). The paint also seemed to have chipped badly elsewhere on the doors. Maybe just a poor choice of doors but interior of cupboards didn’t look great at either.
the British made mereway were (at least 12 years ago) way better than even high end German cabinets were completely solid freestanding - solid tops, 19mm board, glued and doweled, thick backboards with no flex
I always wonder where the money goes on most kitchens as the shells are crap, hingers are crap, drawers are crap etc,. and they then just have fairly crap doors put onto them.
I would rather spend more and actually get a proper made kitchen with all wood, dovetail joints, brass hinges etc,. Just had a DeVOL kitchen fitted which was exactly that and it is absolutely lovely. Well worth the additional cost especially given how good the overall service is (I have never had better from any company)
We've had two kitchens fitted over the years, by me! IKEA one about 15 years ago with an oak worktop. Think that was a out 10k all in without appliances. You need to be aware of lack of service gap. Looked great when we moved out 2 years ago.
Looked at IKEA again for the new house and the quality didn't seem adls good. So went down to Magnet.
For a roughly 3x4m kitchen with laminate worktops integrated fridge/freezer, dishwasher and a pantry cupboard it cost I think about £8,000.
Also included a few nice swinging shelves for cupboards oh and sink and tap.
Units came pre-built which was nice. We reused our hob, oven and extractor.
They were really good although that price did include a random discount of pretty much 50% but the sales guy just added that on automatically. I'd definitely use them again.
I've just been through this hell.
We had an extension & wall knocked through to increase the size of our kitchen and turn our separate kitchen/dining room into a kitchen diner.
The total space is ~9x3m & the kitchen itself I suppose is around 6x3m of that.
We went to Wren, but the salesman was pushy & he didn't really ask us what we wanted. Just designed something and said there you go. It was very expensive & depending on the 'offers' available day to day the price kept changing.
We had experience of DIYK as we'd had a brick-built cupboard & chimney removed form the kitchen a few years ago & I filled the space with some of their units & worktops.
Quality-wise, there kitchens are really good. But, you need to be completely on top of the planning process & all the bits you might need. You really are on your own there, although they will check the order prior to shipping & highlight any mistakes.
They have two showrooms so you can see their stuff.
I almost went with them, but...
The designer in our local Howdens was very good & the plan he came up with was worked through in combination with our suggestions/requirements. He went the extra mile to accommodate changes & suggest things we might like to consider.
The price ended up close to the DIYK price - it was a little more expensive, but not by enough to worry about and there were a few things in the DIYK quote I hadn't added that would have increased it a little bit.
Quality of the kitchen units and doors is not as good as DIYK.
One of the main advantages for me with Howdens was the delivery time & ease of exchanging damaged stuff or getting hold of forgotten/extra bits. We have 5 depots nearby and sourcing stuff was easy.
We also went with their quartz worktops. This was a bit of a saga, as the first load of quartz that turned up had chips along some of the joined edges and the whole lot had to be re-done. They gave us a discount for the inconvenience & really did try to their best to sort it out quickly.
Howdens quartz was cheaper than a couple of local places we tried by a decent margin.
In terms of pricing, Wren came in at £22k all in, but that price went up & down by over £1k as their offers changed & their salesman chased us - that was for cabinets, appliances & worktops. They were quoting £6k for fitting on top of that 😄. Muppets.
DIYK were about £16k all in, but like I say there was probably almost £1k of bits missing from that as I never got round to fully speccing everything through them - extractor, taps etc.
Howdens were just under £11k for the kitchen and the worktop was £4200 inc. fitting. That includes a full width splashback against one wall (~3m) & another bit of splashback on the adjacent wall of ~1.5m long. One piece is extra wide to make a breakfast bar.
Appliances were about £3.5k for: freestanding washing machine (shallow LG one), integrated dishwasher (Beko), 800mm AEG induction hob, single oven & combination oven/microwave (AEG), full-height integrated freezer & full-height integrated fridge (both Hotpoint).
Flooring was extra. We went for Invictus glue-down LVT.
What I would say is, plan, plan and plan again. Get a really good idea of what you want, how you use the kitchen, how is the lighting etc. Are there any pipes in the way that mean you can't put certain things in certain places, can you/are you willing to get them moved? Do you have enough sockets? Do you need more drawers, or large cupboards for storing things like bread makers etc. Do you want sockets adding inside cupboards for vacuum cleaner chargers etc. Since ours has been installed there are already things I would probably have done differently & I spent bloody ages mulling over the details.
Anyway, I'll try to include a couple of pics or else its hard to compare prices people are quoting.
It was a lot of money, but we are happy with it. We have been in the house for 13 years and the kitchen was already looking tired when we moved in, but we've only just got round to sorting it. I could have done some of the installation myself, but the kitchen fitter made it look pretty easy when he really battled some wonky walls due to our crap plasterer. That's another story.
Not finished, so no skirting, pipes need boxing etc.
Top tip if you are looking to save money whilst retaining some quality – look for appliance sellers on places like Ebay that deal with damaged returned goods. For example, we got a brand-new 2m Britannia range oven for less than half-price because it had a big dent in the side, but, as it is enclosed on both sides, the damage is not visible. That saved us a whopping £1,500.
I would rather spend more and actually get a proper made kitchen with all wood, dovetail joints, brass hinges etc,. Just had a DeVOL kitchen fitted which was exactly that and it is absolutely lovely. Well worth the additional cost especially given how good the overall service is (I have never had better from any company)
Yes, DeVol are better than the local box shifters, and so they should be as they start around £50k! They’re about 1/2” a mile from where I’m standing and there’s quite a few fitted in town, but when you break them down they’re only (nicely made) plywood boxes. I see quite a few with cracks in the paint on the shaker doors.
the British made mereway were (at least 12 years ago) way better than even high end German cabinets were completely solid freestanding - solid tops, 19mm board, glued and doweled, thick backboards with no flex
Yes, Mereway were very good, I used to fit a few around 10 years ago until the company I sub to switched to a single supply chain from Hacker.
Howdens kitchens are shit.
Nothing like a blanket generalisation. The kitchens in our offices are Howdens and are standing up pretty well.
A good friend of mine is a joiner and I asked him about doing a kitchen for me. He pointed me at Howdens, a particular branch that he only deals with. Found the consultations to be friendly and pressure free. We popped in several times and changed our minds regularly. Quartz (or granite) worktops had to be laser templated ahead of fitting. Cost was about £17K fitted including all appliances. Very pleased with the end result. Having helped install the last one, there's no way I'd do it myself. YMMV.
Well I've been feeling twitchy over the last couple of months. Spent close to 20k all in, no building or restructuring. Nothing special in my eyes, but my wife likes it. We went to a local company I knew and had spent with previously. Lazy I know. Neff appliances, new ceiling but flooring was already down. Standard 4 bed detached size, no dining. Oh, and the utility units and ceiling. I think I was skinned.
BTW, I just looked at the original quotes, and the units we have fitted are Rotpunkt – nine years on and they still look almost as new (zero warping, flaking, delamination etc) - the only marks are physical damage we have done.
Yes, DeVol are better than the local box shifters, and so they should be as they start around £50k! They’re about 1/2” a mile from where I’m standing and there’s quite a few fitted in town, but when you break them down they’re only (nicely made) plywood boxes. I see quite a few with cracks in the paint on the shaker doors.
Nowhere near £50K. We got a lot of stuff for just £24K - kitchen run, units each side of cooker, bespoke tall glass dresser, double cupboard, 2m table seat thing, 2x1 metre centre table with 4 drawers and wooden top, nice sink, nice brass taps. The side panels are nicely made plywood but the drawer units are wood and the door fronts are wood. They are also sprayed and then hand finished so touching up when necessary is very easily done.
Every single person who comes into the room says 'wow' and rightly so.
Sounds about right. Ours was DIY kitchens 1 year ago, 3.3mx2.2m (within a larger room). £9.5k inc. fitting, new plumbing, tap, handles, ~5m quartz worktop (£2.5k from local supplier) but no floor or tiles or appliances. It is a chuffing nice kitchen now though, best room in our house.
Recommend looking for your local stone worktop wholesalers and going there to choose what colour you get, can see the full size slabs
aye, so seems that 10k might be what i'll have to pay then for 3x3. below is the initial design.... we fancy either this dark blue or a sage green type colour and handleless.
should maybe have said before, its replacing a howdens kitchen that i fitted myself 🤬 🤬 🤬 , but its lasted around 12 years, including the Lamona dishwasher that we've just replaced. so the cost will include hobs, cooker and fridge/freezer, no dishwasher.
so i get that some of you are dissing howdens and maybe rightly so in some cases, but that 12 years has given us a bit of trust in them.
oh, our mate will be knocking a wall down too to open it up to a kitchen diner, plus new flooring too so this is going to cost me isnt it 😀
Love how the Howden's design render includes a bloody air fryer littering the worktop!
Also surprised to see a kettle - I don't think our Howden's designer ever even countenanced the idea that they would not be including a hot tap in the design!
Nowhere near £50K. We got a lot of stuff for just £24K
with worktops, fitting and appliances? Colour me surprised if so.
Love how the Howden's design render includes a bloody air fryer littering the worktop!
Shhhhh it's not Howdens, it's 'the other ones' I mentioned 😉
oh, and we do have an airfryer littering our worktop 😀
Looks remarkably similar to the kitchen we went for. I like the lack of handles. Only annoyance is that the matt finish shows up dirty kids greasy finger marks really well, so we're forever wiping the kitchen down. We were going to go for sage green, hence the green clock, but went for blue instead.
And a photo mid install
aye, so seems that 10k might be what i'll have to pay then for 3x3. below is the initial design.... we fancy either this dark blue or a sage green type colour and handleless.
Ours (the pics I posted above) is the Howdens handleless - Clerkenwell, I think it's called - in gloss. We looked at the matt finishes, but was a bit worried they would attract fingerprints like mad. This was from holding a few of the samples at the depot.
The DIYK handless (Luca Gloss) has a slightly more comfortable handle cut-out shape. But it's very marginal. DIYK do free door sample (I think 3 samples are free).
I would be wary of painted door finishes - there is a DIYK facebook group I signed up to for design tips, and that constantly has people complaining about how easily the painted doors chip.
My brother had his kitchen re-done around 4 years or so ago, and still moans that he wishes he didn't have painted doors as he is forever having to re-touch chips in the finish.
I would definitely see how much extra it costs for a full quartz splashback along the wall with the hob, rather than the antique mirror splashback & upstands. It looks really neat to have it match the worktop. The only thing to be wary of is that most integrated extractors take up nearly the full depth of the unit and so the splashback overlaps the extractor surround. I didn't realise this until we'd already ordered everything. It looks fine, but will be a bit of a pain if the extractor ever packs up.
Some companies offer deeper wall units & if you go down this route, it might be worth considering.
Regarding boiling water taps, we considered one but neither of us were actually that fussed. We did get a in-line filter for the tap though & a three-way tap (from Osmio) as our water is very hard & we wanted to get rid of the Brita filter jug thing.
We were originally going to get a water softener, but it would have voided the warranty on our 3 year old boiler so we ditched that idea.
I'm just starting to pull out the kitchen in my new place, it has a classic 70s or thereabouts melamine worktop (exactly the same as my mum and dad had) and apart from a few knife marks it's pretty much immaculate, looking at the price and reputation of new stuff I wish I could timetravel back and get a new one exactly like it tbh. It's going upstairs to my nerd cave to be the worktop up there, it could outlive me.
If going handleless, I’d go for the Ali rail system rather than the J Pull routed into the doors, much better and you pull the door from behind with your fingertips, so the doors get less fingerprints.
the extractor thing mentioned above is indeed a weird Howdens ‘feature’. Their std wall cabinets are only 290mm deep, so integrated extractors only just fit. You need to carefully do the splash back to make the extractor serviceable. They should update their sizes to 300mm + as standard, like everyone else’s.
I'm curious, what do you cut granite work top with?
An angle grinder?
How do you cut it straight?
How did you move it?
Cut it? Using a grinder and diamond discs off ebay.
move it? Ratchet straps, ladder for bracing and a 1977 VW camper.
Cut it straight? Not easy, I hid all my cuts against walls then ‘made good’ with mastic
I bought a diy kitchens in the jan sale, 10% off. Looked at all the other suppliers listed here but v happy with choice. V happy with quality and service. Shopped around for appliances and yet to decide on worktops.
I fitted an IKEA one in an old house, diy are much better. The ikea backs are like cardboard, the door edges are delaminating I ve had to glue them back on.
Or if you have already built a giant CNC gantry mill in your rural Welsh farmhouse and milled your own oak, just copy these people.
All joking aside, good description of the problems and techniques of cutting stone worktops.
i keep hearing good things about LVT for the flooring. whats the general concensus on here?
I've got lvt in my kitchen.
It's great in a kitchen . We had bought enough to carry it through into the hall......I can do you a deal on a "halls worth". As after laying it in the kitchen we decided no.
Zero maintainance. Zero ****s if we spill. Easy to clean.
The hall has had the original ceramic tiles replaced with new ceramic tiles.
Had peel and stick vinyl flooring because I was doing it cheap at the time.... I'll probably put a different lvt in there soon. Wouldn't recommend peel and stick vinyl - that shit can stay on tiktok.
i keep hearing good things about LVT for the flooring. whats the general concensus on here?
We had glue-down LVT - Invictus brand.
Really pleased with it. Just make sure they put down a decent base.
i can do you a deal on a "halls worth".
@trail_rat thank you for the offer, ill message you.
my uncle is a now retired kitchen fitter
he did ours over 8 years ago
went with Howdens as he got a good discount, (was fair bit cheaper than the equivalent ikea we priced up but never understood the Howdens pricing structure! or how my uncles discount worked) kitchen still looks pretty good nearly a decade on love the swingout corner cupboard shelves
we got our extractor hood from howdens, that was pretty crap, only lasted a few years
oven, dishwasher and hob were all Bosch and they are still going strong, definitely worth the premium
original sink and taps were from wickes, they were stainless steel and looked crap after not long
got a Franke resin composite sink and taps a few years ago and they still look great, again premium was worth it, but sink was slightly different size which was a pita because of the solid oakblock worktop
the worktop was a dilemma, went with wood as it looked best , oiled it first time with the Howdens oil (6 coats?) then had to do again a few years later, used hiwdens oil again, definitely a pain to do, and was impatient so not as many coats so didn't last long last time I got the Osmo oil and it has lasted 4 years now & still looks good, use the right cleaner on it helps,but the Osmo stuff really makes a big difference
for the units i think getting it fitted well is the key, my uncle was able to take his time and theyre all still solid now , drawers & cupboard doors all still smooth
we went with coloured glass splashbacks under both units from local glass shop and they are still looking good too
We too are going through the stressful refitting of our kitchen.
Yes worktops are very, very expensive and I would have kept the old (everything is 18 years old) ones, had it not been for the fact the new induction hob is nearly 10cm smaller than the gas hob its replaced. We did sell our old cooker and hob as they were in good condition.
We kept the existing carcasses, cupboards and drawers with handles and just thoroughly cleaned them, also took off the top bits to make a sleeker look.
Annoyingly the new floor has been boarded and screed which has added on a few mm, this means none of the old plinths or doors now fit.
Going with a local family run firm has been less hassle than trying to get all different trades in and it was well coordinated.
No tiles this time, just a stand up of 10 cm around all work tops and decent quality kitchen/bathroom paint and some eye wateringly expensive coloured glass above the hob.
We also purchased a large free standing pantry cupboard, secondhand to fill a gap where a door once was, this probably saved a good few £100.
Good luck.
We had glue-down LVT - Invictus brand.
Really pleased with it. Just make sure they put down a decent base.
Yeah, we have Karndean stuff and it's great and I echo your recommendation of a decent base – we had decent floor boards, but still overboarded with ply (fixed at 90mm centres IIRC) - 27 sq metres of the stuff to go from the front door, through the kitchen and dining area to the bi-folds at the garden side. Nine years on (with small kids growing up and two dogs) and it still looks great when cleaned. Just a few nicks and scratches, and some ingrained muck along the joins (one day I will clean it all out) and, when in the right (low) light, you can see small bumps where all the nail heads have slightly indented the floor. But it looks a million times better than the engineered oak floor we had in our old house looked four years after installation.
with worktops, fitting and appliances? Colour me surprised if so.
3 appliances included (all Smeg) but no it didn't include worktops as we didn't use DeVOL for worktop. If you want a much nicer kitchen than the typical 'cheap' options then it is worth pricing one up as the units are not actually that bad a price, the expense comes with things like dressers for £4k, large centre table for £4k etc,. but most kitchens I see don't have that sort of stuff and tend to just look like a room crammed full of kitchen units.
most kitchens I see don't have that sort of stuff and tend to just look like a room crammed full of kitchen units.
Yeah, we deliberately tried to avoid that look with our kitchen. Fortunately we had there space to put in just low-level units (there is one ceiling height larder behind me in this very crap picture I took before it was finished, but you get the idea).
well im back from howdens, wasnt as bad an ordeal as i thought. some observations.....
dark blue clerkenwell. it does indeed show fingerprints quite badly. i had a couple of samples to look at and after id put it down i could see them quite easily. thats a wrapped chipboard apparently and to get better quality what we'd be looking at is painted mdf (hockley i think) which are just plain slabs that you put your fingers behind to pull out. after a bit of manhandling there were no fingerprints to see.
all appliances quoted were mid-range lamona.
white quartz worktop was £3500, acrylic just a few hundred quid less. no movement on price with worktops.
hadnt thought of upstands and splashbacks but makes more sense than tiling so will probably add those.
asked about LVT flooring, that would be nearly £300 for kitchen space (around £20 sq/m i think?), but we'd need to expand it into dining room so that would cost a pretty penny. may be worth it tho, dont fancy tiling the lot and it does need to flow through with same flooring.
over all he seemed a decent chappie, helpful without being pushy. ive asked mkm a few qustions regarding their quote so i can compare apples with apples, see what comes back.
cheers
Fingerprints can be sorted - get the culprits to deal with it!
Also, big fan of LVT - ours is Amtico
Why not make your own concrete worktop??
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Concrete-Countertops-Design-Finishes-Kitchen/dp/1561586803
What could possibly go wrong........................
I'd avoid solid wood worktops, they're a maintenance PITA. Ours needs retreating, and I just can't face the days of sanding/wiping/oiling/drying/oiling/drying/oiling/drying faff...
this +1. Ours (came with the house) looks great for a (very short) while after every sanding and oiling. And there haven't been many of those 😀
well im back from howdens, wasnt as bad an ordeal as i thought. some observations.....
dark blue clerkenwell. it does indeed show fingerprints quite badly. i had a couple of samples to look at and after id put it down i could see them quite easily. thats a wrapped chipboard apparently and to get better quality what we'd be looking at is painted mdf (hockley i think) which are just plain slabs that you put your fingers behind to pull out. after a bit of manhandling there were no fingerprints to see.
all appliances quoted were mid-range lamona.
white quartz worktop was £3500, acrylic just a few hundred quid less. no movement on price with worktops.
hadnt thought of upstands and splashbacks but makes more sense than tiling so will probably add those.
asked about LVT flooring, that would be nearly £300 for kitchen space (around £20 sq/m i think?), but we'd need to expand it into dining room so that would cost a pretty penny. may be worth it tho, dont fancy tiling the lot and it does need to flow through with same flooring.
over all he seemed a decent chappie, helpful without being pushy. ive asked mkm a few qustions regarding their quote so i can compare apples with apples, see what comes back.
cheers
A few points on all of this.
Hockley is their top of the range stuff, I think. They do it in 'true handleless' which someone mentioned earlier. There is a recess at the top of the unit that you get your hand behind and pull on the back of the door. We got a quote for that & it was about £4k more than the Clerkenwell J-Pull handleless.
I have heard very mixed reviews on Lamona appliances. We went for the Lamona extractor, as I found an identical unit online from a 'proper' brand so this was clearly just a rebranded item. There was also one installed in the showroom so I could see how it fitted into the cabinet.
It might be worth looking around & comparing to what you can get on offer from places.
We found that you could get more well known brands for almost the same price & one or two bits were even cheaper than the Lamona equivalent.
I think there are a few places that will offer discounts on bundles. Definitely shop around.
What worktop was the quote for? Aspen Crystal 20mm? We were told you get the best price for that particular one, as they sell so much of it. And it was very close to all of the samples from other places that we liked the most, so were happy to go with it.
Your quote seems expensive for the amount you are getting (based on the kitchen layout image you posted and that doesn't include splashbacks.
For comparison, I have just added up the slabs we have. We paid £4200 from Howdens incl fitting & we had cut-outs put in for hob & sink, as well as 2 double socket holes & a single socket hole.
In total, the worktop pieces are:
7570x600mm - 4 pieces in total (+ a bit extra depth as along the main wall, the worktop gets deeper halfway along)
1800x930mm for the peninsula/breakfast bar overhang
The splashback pieces are:
1620x490mm along one wall
2300x490mm & 1000x840mm on the wall behind the hob
Upstands are:
~4000x90mm
Does your LVT flooring cost include the base preparation & fitting. It seems very reasonable. I think our Invictus stuff was around £30/m^2 just for the flooring. We got a local place to do ours, who was recommended.
We had the floor preparation up to the wall before the kitchen went in, to give the kitchen fitter a nice flat surface to work on. The LVT itself just goes under the plinths up to the legs.
that LVT quote won’t include prep, which will need doing, whatever is there already. If solid floors it’ll want skimming with Ardex NA or the like, if chip/floorboards, it’ll want overboarding with SP101 flooring ply screwed or pinned with feather finish. £20/m would be fitting only. Prep can easily be that and more. I estimate on a figure of £90-£100/m2 all in supplied, prepped and fitted for LVT and it’s usually not a mile off.
Hockley is their top of the range stuff, I think.
he said it was mid-range
We got a quote for that & it was about £4k more than the Clerkenwell J-Pull handleless.
the difference in quotes between clerkenwell and hockley is £650. as far as i can see everything else is the same.
It might be worth looking around & comparing to what you can get on offer from places.
We found that you could get more well known brands for almost the same price & one or two bits were even cheaper than the Lamona equivalent.
I think there are a few places that will offer discounts on bundles. Definitely shop around.
good idea, we will do. ive just realised actually that although hes sent us the rendered images from today, he hasnt actually supplied us with written quotes so ive just emailed to ask for them so that we can study whats actually been specc'ed.
What worktop was the quote for? Aspen Crystal 20mm? We were told you get the best price for that particular one, as they sell so much of it. And it was very close to all of the samples from other places that we liked the most, so were happy to go with it.
Your quote seems expensive for the amount you are getting (based on the kitchen layout image you posted and that doesn't include splashbacks.
from my notes, ive got 'ice white quartz' written down. the cutouts for sink etc are included, as is the fitting.
Does your LVT flooring cost include the base preparation & fitting. It seems very reasonable.
no, pretty sure its just the price of the flooring otherwise i think he'd have said. and yes he said that goes in last just under the kickerboards.
what base prep would be needed then? we have concrete floors with thin tiles on top all over the house, im not sure whether theyd still be under the current kitchen tiles or not, or just concrete once they come up.
thanks
EDIT: just read blazin-saddles reply, was typing at same time. looks like its not just a case of laying onto flat concrete then 🙁
I'd avoid solid wood worktops, they're a maintenance PITA. Ours needs retreating, and I just can't face the days of sanding/wiping/oiling/drying/oiling/drying/oiling/drying faff..
We went for a Corian worksurface – it cost more than the flooring and base units combined, but it's great – a single run with no visible joins and the upstands have a nice curve up to them rather than the usual 90deg join you get with other surfaces so they are a doddle to wipe down and no mess gets caught up in the joins.
We kept our sink and only went for a new tap. Any new stainless steel sink would have got scratched pretty quickly.
I’ve just cooked something for the first time in 3 weeks. Living off sandwiches and food prepared before kitchen fitting to pop in the microwave, has not been the best. But we have had a couple of nice lunches out.
good idea, we will do. ive just realised actually that although hes sent us the rendered images from today, he hasnt actually supplied us with written quotes so ive just emailed to ask for them so that we can study whats actually been specc'ed.
well that was a non-runner. received this reply.....
We went with wood worktop (replacing some awful speckled black stuff that made it well-nigh impossible to see if it was clean as well as making the area rather dark) and have been very happy with it, it gets osmo maybe once a year but usually less, it's not a big job to oil and a bit of wear and tear is in keeping with the rest of the (wood-lined) house. Your aesthetic may differ of course.
Stone I ruled out due to likely breakages.
I bought neff appliances and ellica extractor from a local indie who beat john lewis price by q a margin. Also stored them till I was ready.
too. any idea how minerva compares to quartz or acrylic
im pretty sure Minerva is just a brand of Quartz top? Howdens tend to use Silestone, which is another brand of Quartz.
You don’t want Clerkenwell unless you’re really on a tight budget, it’s nowhere near as good as the Hockley door, much thinner and flimsy.
The Lamona appliances aren’t really great at all, I’d look for better if possible.
You don’t want Clerkenwell unless you’re really on a tight budget, it’s nowhere near as good as the Hockley door, much thinner and flimsy.
yeah we've pretty much settled on hockley, just the colour to choose now. matey said they were 'painted MDF' but the brochure says theyre wrapped, so we need to check on that. and if we went for a darker colour do you think the doors would still show fingerprints like the clerkenwell dark blue?
The Lamona appliances aren’t really great at all, I’d look for better if possible.
hmmm.... difficult to compare prices if they wont provide them. i suppose i could just ask him to send me another quote with no appliances 😀
Maybe. I don’t know if the Hockley one s a wrap or paint without research, but the door is 2-3mm thicker than the Clerkenwell and feels much more a quality product.
They won’t give you the prices as you’re not the account holder. If I’m doing a mates kitchen, I’ll authorise Howdens to talk numbers with the customer, to save me getting involved. The account holder can log in and get individual item prices tailored to their discount structure, so maybe whoever you’re using can do that for you?
Bare in mind they want to sell complete kitchens, rather than have people cherry pick bits and pieces, so will do their best to be obscure. It’s the downside of the way they do business unfortunately. If you ask them to remove the appliances, there’s a good chance they’ll just load the cabinets quote instead.
Just looked at the site and realised I might have given you bum info re Clerkenwell vs Hockley. Clerkenwell is in their mid range as well. They’ve had a big re-jig since winter and it appears in not Mr Current affairs at the moment. More research needed. Sorry.
Just looked at the site and realised I might have given you bum info re Clerkenwell vs Hockley. Clerkenwell is in their mid range as well. They’ve had a big re-jig since winter and it appears in not Mr Current affairs at the moment. More research needed. Sorry.
Yeah, Clerkenwell doors definitely not flimsy. They're actually thicker than the Hockley doors 🤣
Yes, it was Greenwich I was confusing it with.
The Lamona appliances aren’t really great at all, I’d look for better if possible.
completely agree , id avoid lamona!
good idea, we will do. ive just realised actually that although hes sent us the rendered images from today, he hasnt actually supplied us with written quotes so ive just emailed to ask for them so that we can study whats actually been specc'ed.
well that was a non-runner. received this reply.....
unfortunately as we are trade only, I cannot provide individual pricing as this would be a GDPR breach of your fitters pricing structure, only the sum end costs.With regard to appliances if you follow the link below and enter the below codes you will be able to see what I factored into the overall cost,LAM4675 (OVEN)LAM1551 (HOB)LAM2378 (EXTRACTOR)SNK4840 (SINK)TAP3548 (TAP)that sound right to you? so theyre pretty much saying we'll give you a quote, but we wont tell you how we've come to that figure and its up to your fitter to either tell you or not how much they charged him/her?comparing to the mkm quote, altho not itemised, they did at least state that the oven, hob, extractor and fridge/freezer came to £900 and sink and tap £170. i asked for a list of what makes/models they were but she's off now til tuesday but i guess id get the same reply? "wind yer neck in, we're not selling to you, we're selling to your fitter"?EDIT: scrutinising the mkm quote a bit more i can see a minerva ice crystal worktop is specced at over a grand less than howdens too. any idea how minerva compares to quartz or acrylic? may end up splitting the items if it makes sense.
The Howdens spiel about not giving you the pricing because of gdpr is bollocks. The discount they apply is their policy & not personal or private information related to the fitter.
Here's a snip of the quote I got for the appliances from Howdens, so they can provide it if they want to.
My quote for the rest of the kitchen was also fully itemised so I could see where the expensive choices were!
thanks for that stumpy, interesting. i wont call them out on it and create tension for now but i have just asked for an alternative quote without appliances, see what comes back. ive just been googling the product codes he gave, oven over £600, hob £350, cant see a price for extractor but as others are intimating, the reviews are saying its crap. i noticed that theres no fridge freezer code either so i cant compare that one.
I think there are a few places that will offer discounts on bundles. Definitely shop around.
any recommendations?
Yeah, Clerkenwell doors definitely not flimsy. They're actually thicker than the Hockley doors
they both seemed substantial enough in my hand, i suppose tho that Hockley was MDF whilst Clerkenwell chipboard. i wouldnt have known and would have been happy with either but then again im no expert. if im told MDF > chipboard then it makes sense to go for better quality. likewise if painted > wrapped.
ive also just been given a local(ish) quartz worktop supplier so ill contact them too. at this rate ill only be getting the cupboards from howdens 😀
cheers
I've never owned a Lamona appliance but have used a few of them in holiday lets. I'll be honest I thought they were crap, although I appreciate that you can get different grades of appliances from most manufacturers. We normally go for Bosch, I will say we cheaped out on an integrated Beko frost free fridge freezer for our new kitchen and it's not what I'd call frost free. Dishwasher is okay though.
