[Closed] New job/interview paranoia - Do company directors 'talk'?

Am I just being paranoid?

the company director who was excited about sending me an offer etc. once worked for my current company…

Sounds like somebody has had a chat and there is no reason why they wouldn't if they know who to ask – after all, taking on new staff is a risk for employers and they will want to know as much as they can before making an offer.

Do they have a reason to be concerned about you do you think?

How senior are you? It may happen if you're going to the senior management team but wouldn't expect it at a more junior level.

Certainly in my industry (where lots of people know each other or have worked with each other in the past) there would be informal discussions about hiring.

EIDT: but if your current boss hated you they would tell the others that you were great to get you off their books. Sounds like that isn't happening.

Certainly in my industry (where lots of people know each other or have worked with each other in the past) there would be informal discussions about hiring.

Yep, mine too. I know my current boss spoke to my old boss before I was even interviewed.

If you're unsure about the recruiter being 100% honest then it's easy enough to find an e-mail address on the web and drop the hiring manager a note directly.

Find a different recruiter

Hmm, OK, thanks folks.

After posting I suddenly thought I WAS being paranoid, after all, it would need to be a very diplomatic conversation in order that it didn't jeopardise my current role! That being said, my boss isn't stupid (or a bad guy, necessarily) so he has almost certainly sussed who it would be.

I'm in a senior role although in my company that doesn't really mean management (of people, I do 'manage' my own projects). The only bad feedback my current boss might give is due to stress etc. Obviously I've had conversations with him, his view is that this is just a 'hump' I need to get over but my view is that it has been a ****ing mountain that I've been slowly trying to push a boulder up for three or four years now with no particular end in sight. Anyway, that's all a separate thread.

Have no reason to suspect recruiter of anything and no interest to go down that particular paranoid rabbit hole!

As it turns out, solving problem from within might be best (only...) solution available to me, but I still couldn't get nagging suspicion out of my head, at least I'm (maybe) not going crazy.

Ta

100%, I recall putting my CV out and arranging an interview only for my boss to have quiet chat and say "why are you going for interviews" when I hadn't mentioned it to a soul. Turns out one he'd had a call from of the managers with whom I had an interview arranged to ask about me, as they had worked together previously and so knew each other. Worked out ok as he listened to why I was looking for interviews and sorted my issues but that doesn't sound like it'll happen for you sorry.

first port of call is a good long chat with the recruiter, I reckon

Have you spoken directly to the company that interviewed you or is everything being filtered through the recruitment consultant? Recruitment is a terrible industry full of people who find it very easy to lie. I feel qualified to say that as I did the job for a while (long, miserable story).

It may be that there is a fees debate stopping them from appointing you, it may be that recruiter is not telling you the whole story. I'd follow up directly with the person who interviewed you.

It occurred to me that maybe company directors give one-another a wee friendly warning or call before poaching staff? Sounds mad but then there might be an element of professional courtesy about it, and my industry is a little bit incestuous, e.g. the company director who was excited about sending me an offer etc. once worked for my current company…

Yes they do speak. Obviously depends on industry and how the companies and people get on. I've known both a quiet unofficial reference / "is this guy worth talking to" to happen before the candidate has even come for interview or before an offer. I've also seen companies that work closely together give the other a polite heads up that they about to offer. Only a stupid company (but then perhaps that is where you are) would intentionally scupper your chances rather than either incentivise you to stay or just start preparing for your departure. An unhappy employee is a waste of money. On the other hand if they are close and your employer thinks you are a bit shit that could be an issue.

To scupper multiple jobs though? I doubt it - that sounds like recruiter BS.

Have you spoken directly to the company that interviewed you or is everything being filtered through the recruitment consultant? Recruitment is a terrible industry full of people who find it very easy to lie. I feel qualified to say that as I did the job for a while (long, miserable story).

It may be that there is a fees debate stopping them from appointing you, it may be that recruiter is not telling you the whole story. I’d follow up directly with the person who interviewed you.

I did wonder... That being said I had actually swapped phone numbers with the company director who interviewed me and would be making me an offer, I think he wanted to chat again about the offer before making it official via recruiter etc. (I even asked recruiter if this was normal/OK and he said it was, they were protected in various ways). There's a bunch of other detail that I'll spare the thread but basically I'm inclined to believe there's no funny business in that respect.

Recruitment is a terrible industry full of people who find it very easy to lie

It's really not, if you use that approach you get found out very quickly indeed, maybe that why you didn't last...

There is however good and bad people, as there are in every industry.The key is to find a good one who will support you and not just throw your CV's at jobs. Anyone who is at the better end should be very discrete in their approach so the leak will like be coming from the hiring company direct.

In your shoes OP I would be speaking to 2 or 3 recruitment firms who specialise in your industry, explaining what you want in your next role and asking for assurances that any approaches made on your behalf are kept confidential. Be honest about what's happened before and be clear about why it can't happen again.

At the same time, do have a chat with your current boss, explain your concerns, explain what you want to change, be positive but also be clear in your expectations. This serves 2 purposes, firstly things may change for the positive, second if an off the record conversation does take place behind your back, you're current boss will know you've tried to resolve the issue and so will perhaps be more positive about you.

To scupper multiple jobs though? I doubt it – that sounds like recruiter BS.

One of the things they all have in common (I think...) is some sort of historical connection with my company! The first 4 roles (might have been 3 actually) were apparently all just filled before they got my CV, and at least 2 (apparently) were trying to justify extra spending to hire me anyway (all nice stuff to hear, these recruiters are good at stroking your ego!). At least 2 of those 3 had relatively direct past links with my company...

I think a wee directorly chat certainly explains the offer that never arrived, and perhaps a couple of the interviews that never even happened. Rest might have just been circumstances.

Based on two of the other guys I know at my level, it wouldn't surprise me if my boss is used to periodically having to talk people back from the edge when things get tough, I know both guys toyed with leaving, didn't and now seem happy enough.

Do company directors ‘talk’?

Of course they do. Anyone recruiting someone wants to know as much as they can about a potential new employee and will often reach out to an ex-colleague etc for a 2nd opinion. I had someone reach out to me the other week via LinkedIn about someone I may have worked with (turned out we didn't overlap in time, so couldn't offer an opinion).

I think the key thing to bear in mind when working with recruiters is that they're working for themsleves, not for you. They have a pile of jobs that they need to find credible candiates for, they only get paid when they fill them. But they need you (the candidate) in order to get paid. You're an important tool in their arsenal, but nothing more than that.

To that extent you will find that for the most part recruiters will give you positive "chat" when things are moving forward postively for you, but be aware that they'll be giving this positive chat to a number of candidates all of whom are going for the same role.

There are good recruiters out there, and both for you as a candiate and for employers looking to hire, good recruiters are worth their weight in gold. There are a lot of charlatens out there though who, if they weren't in recruitment, would be selling houses or second hand cars. Work out which your recuiter is, and treat accordingly. Also, be aware that most employers would prefer to handle recruitment direcrtly as a result of being burnt by said charlatens.

Good luck with the job hunt. I've been in sh*tty jobs before and they can really take over your life. If you're talented though, you will get out and remember that there's no better revenge than phenominal success.

Are you sure it’s not just recruiters being recruiters?

brexit and covid have lead to lots of uncertainty, people think they can go forward then back off. You may be a victim of this.
Even if they did talk, what can you do about it? Nothing.
Just keep ploughing on and sooner or later you will score.

I think the key thing to bear in mind when working with recruiters is that they’re working for themselves, not for you. They have a pile of jobs that they need to find credible candidates for, they only get paid when they fill them

Sort of. You always need a candidate to fill a job, but you don't always need a job to place a candidate. A good candidate can generate interest without there being a job in place. And at the moment, a lot of markets are candidate short. A good candidate, who's committed to a move can be hugely in demand and should be looked after.

The first 4 roles (might have been 3 actually) were apparently all just filled before they got my CV, and at least 2 (apparently) were trying to justify extra spending to hire me anyway

That's not uncommon. They make a decision, make an offer and then a new candidate (the OP) appears on the scene. The company try their best to keep said candidate interested whilst they try and find somewhere to put them/budget for them. Most of the time it doesn't happen, but they won't tell you that up front.

All depends on the industry. How many people do your job and how many similar firms are there? In my world there are far to many people involved for this sort of behind the scenes chat - maybe at exec level but the salaries there are in £m's and recruitment is on another level.

My experience at scale:

If a candidate is amazing and the co is shady they are not getting a good reference. Just basic worked between these dates, or actively negative if co is really bad.

If candidate is a drain and has been there over 2 years, they want rid but can’t find a reason then the reference is going to be amazing.

Don’t worry about it. Just focus on proving how good you are and building the relationship during the interview process. They can take you on and fire you for any reason during 1st 2 yrs so risk is low for them regardless of what reference states. IMO they are overrated.

Do co directors speak? Only when it is in their interest. Why would anyone want to lose a great employee or retain a bad one?

I'd suggest having a think about whether a fresh start at a new job is going to solve your stress issue. A lot of folk go through cycles of stress, it would be good to look at dealing with it head-on.

Acute stress is great for productivity, but chronic stress is bad - as you've found out.

You mentioned anti-depressants, they are a solution. Lots of folk take them, more than you'd imagine.

There are a lot of other avenues to explore for mental well-being too.

In IT, its very rare to come across a recruiter who has the faintest idea what they're recruiting for - they just match words/phrases/technical terms/applications etc on your CV with what the recruiting company have given them. I'm currently working my notice period in a role I started 2 years ago which was sold to me as being something totally different to what it actually turned out to be and I've spent 2 years biting my tongue, bored out my tree waiting for the right role to come along to enable me to escape, which, funnily enough OP, the recruiting manager spoke to people who work for him who have worked with me before and thats how it all worked out 🙂

Bad to average recruiters will always oversell you. Just a numbers game for them to gain commission. 25pc of co’s are terrible at hiring and they get away with it.

If a candidate is amazing and the co is shady they are not getting a good reference. Just basic worked between these dates, or actively negative if co is really bad.

I didn't think anyone gave anything other than a factual reference now as there is always the potential to be sued if you give a bad reference, so HR departments just err on the side of caution.

I’d suggest having a think about whether a fresh start at a new job is going to solve your stress issue. A lot of folk go through cycles of stress, it would be good to look at dealing with it head-on.

Is sort of the conclusion I've reached, annoyingly, as it just fundamentally seems wrong to 'run' from problems, however legitimate they might be. Plus it sounds like there might at least be some filthy lucre to make up for it in the short to medium term.

Which sort of sparked this thread as if I'm trying to knuckle down, renegotiate terms/working conditions etc. it would be useful to know what my boss knows! 😁

as it just fundamentally seems wrong to ‘run’ from problems, however legitimate they might be.

I used to think that, now I'm of the opinion that life is too short to put up with crap, you don't get anything refunded at the end!

You can't hunt for a new role, and expect it to be kept secret from everyone at your current company. It's just not a realistic proposition. Speaking to someone connected to your current role (or the role before that) is going to have to happen at some point, even if just asking for a formal nod that you have worked there for the time you have said, in the role you have said. Head it off by suggesting yourself to the agency and potential new employer who to speak to at your current employer, and give them the heads up to expect contact. You can ask that contact to be discrete if you want, of course.

@footflaps Legally you are absolutely correct. But off the record phone conversations happen all the time. I do it often (I’m a director in a global engineering consultancy) and likewise I’m contacted by people in my network to discuss their candidates that I have worked with in the past. Bringing somebody into the business can be risky and I’ll use all the info I can to minimise that risk. Having employed the odd lemon before (who on paper/interview looked great) I don’t think this is an unreasonable/unusual approach.

☝☝

Do you ever read an entire thread with a comment burning in your brain just to find right at the end that someone else has said almost word-for-word what you were about to add?

I'm not going to comment on recruiters as I don't think I can add to what's already been said, my experience with them as variously a jobseeker or a contractor has been a net negative.

But, again anecdotally, yes people do talk. Random example, not that long ago I had a phone call out of the blue from the IT manager at my previous employer, "do you know [name]?" Yes, I said, he's one of the IT bods here, why? "He's just applied for a job here. What's he like?" And many, many others.

People often say 'my industry is quite incestuous' and for me this may be compounded by dint of working in the technology sector in East Lancashire where there aren't all that many larger offerings, but I'll wager that this is actually true of most industries.

Regardless. I'm in 'cybersecurity' these days, apply for a job with me and we're totally gonna OSINT your ass. You'd be far from the first to be rejected for interview because of a sketchy Facebook profile.

You can’t hunt for a new role, and expect it to be kept secret from everyone at your current company. It’s just not a realistic proposition.

I dunno, I think that's an entirely viable proposition. I work within a reletively incestuous industry where someone always know someone, and made a job move recently. When I told my (then) director that I was leaving it was a bolt out of the blue for him. I wanted to leave (for postive reasons), and the recruitment process for my new role for one reason or another took about a month, spread over the of six interviews (thank god for COVID and remote working / hiring processes). Throughout all of this though I kept my head in the game with my then current employer. I also stipulated that I would not allow my prospective employer to seek references before an offer had been made.

it just fundamentally seems wrong to ‘run’ from problems, however legitimate they might be.

With regards to stress and leaving jobs (especially ones that are driving you to consider anti-depressants), f*ck framing it as "running from your problems". I spent a long time honing my craft and becoming very well respected in what I did. I moved from a company that I'd known for years to a competitor that had a very good name in the market. Little did I know that their corporate culture was utterly toxic. I spent 12 months there trying to "make it work". The stress made me ill, drove me to lean on drink and drugs as a coping mechanism, put strain on my relationship, and made me doubt who I was. Eventually I was used as the fall-guy following the loss of a big account and was fired. I returned to my old employer (no hard feelings, they knew the toxic culture of the competitor) and I poached all the good staff (non-compete clauses don't apply if they fire you, apparently!). Said competitor is now a shell of its former self.

Like I say, the best form of revenge is phenominal success.

Sounds more like the recruiter is just up to the usual, ie blowing smoke up folks arses.

It occurred to me that maybe company directors give one-another a wee friendly warning or call before poaching staff?

I'm a company director and in my experience this doesn't happen. I cant say it never happens but I would never call another company and talk about an employee.

A friend was looking for a new job with assistance of a recruitment consultant. The recruiter offered his details to a number of employers, including his current boss. Awkward.

You’d be far from the first to be rejected for interview because of a sketchy Facebook profile.

I mean, I do have some 15 year old blogs still kicking around, apart from some slightly weak attempts at humour and maybe a couple of tangential allusions to smoking a joint (they were all bikepacking blogs) I don't think they're not-hire worthy, although having said that I've always thought of my industry as generally being a bit suspicious of anyone who's read a few books or enjoys the written word in any way... 🙄

Would have deleted them by now but Google security is ridiculously tight, I have no idea how to access them any more!