You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hi, our family estate car seems to be coming to the end of its viable life, having driven almost 200k miles. We are looking to replace it with a newer estate car and although diesel is the bad guy nowadays, the fuel economy figures of a 2-3 year old estate car point me back towards a diesel, rather than petrol.
(Our main car is a Nissan leaf electric car that is used for as many journeys as possible, we don't want a second electric car due concerns about range on long journeys, purchase cost and also we would need a second home charger, which I'm not sure is allowable). Same with a plug in hybrid - I'd happily have one, but juggling one home charger, when it is already in use every evening will get a bit annoying.
Looking at, for example, a Skoda Octavia, the published figures show that the 2.0L diesel supposedly does 62mpg, but the various petrol models are 45-52mpg (I know that all of those figures are achieved on a test track, so in real life conditions will be somewhat less).
My 1989 vauxhall nova did almost 40mpg, and whilst it was a much smaller car, it seems a bit of a backwards step to have a car with almost the same fuel economy 35 years later.
I guess the diesels will be more polluting than the petrol, however would you go for the diesel, or a petrol that will cost more to run.
Most journeys in this car are at least 25-30 miles and about 16000 per year.
(It doesn't have to be a Skoda, but other brands seem to have a similar fuel economy(.
Also, where is a good place to buy 2-3 year old cars nowadays - car showrooms, car supermarkets (do they still exist?), or somewhere online?
My 1989 vauxhall nova did almost 40mpg, and whilst it was a much smaller car, it seems a bit of a backwards step to have a car with almost the same fuel economy
on the other hand you could argue that a petrol estate car that is probably nearly twice as heavy and with much better space, comfort and safety features yet is quicker and has similar economy is a real advance.
but to actually answer your question, I would have no worries buying a diesel if used on longer runs provided it was Euro 6 compliant. They use less fuel but can cost more to service in the long run in some cases. Diesel is more expensive per litre and there is adblue costs as well but probably still cheaper per mile on fuel
nova is like a 1100 kg or lighter car, lighter smaller wheels etc, possibly more lax emissions regulations could've made it more frugal. id be surprised if a modern family car is any less than 50% heavier
Stop start driving is a huge killer on economy too, again the weight making big deal.
I've never had a car that realistically beats mid 40's average.
you're at the point were 25-30 miles is a decent run to warrant a diesel IMHO. Shorter journeys being the enemy of a diesel.
I wouldn't put the morality hat on, you've got an electric to cover what bases it can, you need something sensible for the rest of the time
I’ve never had a car that realistically beats mid 40’s average.
You need to drive more slowly.
Depending on source, opinion may suggest that modern diesels are no more polluting than petrol. My 2011 Passat Estate Bluemotion 1.6 Tdi has done (checks spreadsheet) 52.4mpg over the 5 years I've had it. That includes quite a lot of short trips and it manages low 60s on a motorway run. Best ever tank full 58.8mpg. Those are real figures not trip computer figures. I would guess a diesel Octavia would equal that, possibly better it for 25-30 ml journeys even with (or because of) the bigger engine. If you're after great fuel consumption rather than blistering performance my experience suggest the VW Bluemotion (Skoda Greenline) are a great option though I don't think those have been around for a while.
My last two cars have been from local independent dealers found via Autotrader and have been very sound, not pushy, honest cars and good prices.
My 1989 vauxhall nova did almost 40mpg,
I have a 1500 cc Toyota Yaris with auto transmission. I can get 50 mpg without trying too hard just cruising at 60. If I drive like a **** in traffic, I get half that.
Personally for that mileage I'd probably go petrol. I think the cost of diesel ownership will go up disproportionally compared to petrol. As demand drops fuel costs will rise and at some point may be more difficult to find. Really depends on how long you plan to keep it, diesels are deprecetaing fast so it wont be worth as much in a few years and if you pkan to keep it for 10 years i think car ownership will look very different as will the supporting infrastructure. Im not anti diesel, have had diesels for years and they've been good efficient vehicles, i just think the world is moving on.
My car that's equivalent to your nova in size/weight .
Does 65mpg.
If I compared it with our other car which is also much bigger than a nova.
It gets 40mpg. I wouldnt expect it to get the s better mpg than a nova it's twice the size
I'm fancying a petrol hybrid
We've had hybrid Corolla estates the last couple of years for work stuff and the fuel economy on those seems to be incredibly good, we've scored 70+ mpg on motorway runs with several adults and kit in them.
The trade offs being that they're not exactly cavernous for an estate, and 'spirited' drivers might not like the CVT gearbox or handling especially (not the target market really) but I reckon I could make one work as a more efficient family car, looked before and it was circa £30k+ new so couple of years old, auto trader reckons sub £15k is a good price for. 19/20 plate.
I had a hire Honda chr hybrid in France.
Drove 3 hours from the airport to my folks , 2 weeks driving locally + 2 hours down and back to rocamador and an hour or so north up to the zoo and back .....
Quite a few miles. Didn't fill up once despite its small tank. We were seeing 70mpg I'd love the Corolla version but the cost of them is wild given how small they are.
I was going to recommend the Toyota corolla/Suzuki Swace - we've got the Suzuki version (identical cars, except for badges) and it's great. Boringly capable, comfortable to drive, 50+ mpg day to day use, 60+ on a motorway trip without the roofrack on. A really good car if you're not a car person would be how I'd describe it.
Not a massive estate, but still can fit quite a lot in it - we managed a few weeks camping in France last summer. Mpg dropped to 45ish with 2 bikes, 1 tandem and a roof box up top and the air con running full time but that's still pretty decent I think.
That a car twice the size of a Nova, with a level of kit and equipment that someone in a Nova would think incredible, that is massively, massively safer yet also puts out massively fewer harmful emsiions, can match or beat the miles per gallon is remarkable.
diesel is the bad guy nowadays
Not really. The problem with diesel is NOx emissions and Euro 6 engines include technology to neutralise it. There are real world tests published that reveal which engines or manufacturers get that right. In fact some diesels are cleaner than some petrols.
Also, don't discount EVs based on the Leaf. It's battery tech is pretty crappy, the range drops in winter primarily because they battery doesn't get heated, and cold batteries don't give as much charge as they do when warm. Also it charges really slowly. More modern higher tech EVs are much better, if you can afford one. I won't buy another ICE if I can help it.
My Honda was clearly a Toyota not a knock off 🙂
" 45-52mpg (I know that all of those figures are achieved on a test track, so in real life conditions will be somewhat less"
My Skoda Superb 2018 1.4tsi petrol gets 47-52mpg on long trips. 47mpg doing 75mph on the motorway. Up to 52mpg on A roads at 50-60mph. Which for car that big is pretty good. These are brim to brim checks, not the car computer. Managed over 700 miles in one day on one tank of fuel.
Close enough to diesel economy that is isn't a deal breaker IMO usual other second hand car factors being as important.
As demand drops fuel costs will rise and at some point may be more difficult to find.
I think you'll find that's either a VERY long way off it not even a thing.
Loved my 1989 nova merit 😆 my god it was crap.
I've a 2 litre diesel 4WD ford Kuga, 180 HP
Loaded to the gunwhales with a top box + bikes on the roof, I'll get about 42/43 mpg on a trip to the Highlands of Scotland, from the midlands. Not driving like a ****, but not miss daisy either.
Without all the shiiiite on top etc, about 46mph on a long run.
Round town about 40mpg.
Those figures are all aabout 10-12 mph better than my previous 1.9 turbo 150 hp petrol Skoda Octavia estate
Getting over 50mpg on long journeys in a Berlingo which is very un aerodynamic. 1.2 petrol.
Unless you want to drive very fast or tow things, you don't need a big engine.
I'm not sure why people think Euro 6 diesels will suddenly plummet in value, they're very fuel efficient and their CO2 is much lower than equivalent petrol engines so they are better for the environment. The engines tend to last longer too as 200,000 miles isn't uncommon but you'd be doing well to get that in a petrol engine. So I'd say their whole life environmental impact is pretty good.
Since Euro 7 doesn't exist yet it won't be any time soon that they'll start charging ULEZ etc on them.
Diesel V70 D3, Galaxy 2.0d, Touran 1.9tdi = just over 50mpg on a run, early 40s around the doors.
Newer Leon petrol 1.4tsi auto = exactly the same. Around town in fact I would say it's better. Plus cheaper servicing and fuel...
... though i'd like to see you get a 3 seater sofa transported from one house to another in the Leon 😛.
its not a realistic comparsion when you can only fit in 10% of the stuff you couldwith the previous two.
'23 BMW 330 series touring, 2.0T petrol - (company car) owned from new & always driven very economically, the fuel economy is very poor IMO, mid to low 30's at best. Couldn't recommend honestly. Had the same in a diesel previously and that was a lot better 50+mpg pretty much everywhere.
its not a realistic comparsion when you can only fit in 10% of the stuff you couldwith the previous two.
I'm not sure your familiar with what a Leon is.
I think it's fair to say diesel development has somewhat stalled. At least since "diesel-gate" and the general perception of diesel being the "bad guy" as the OP put it.
As was briefly discussed back up the page if you want range and lugging capacity and can't spunk 40k on one of the newer leccy options then a more recent petrol hybrid is going to be in the 60-70+ mpg range where a diesel might scrape mid-50s.
I'm currently driving a 16 year old French Diesel, it's replacement will not be Diesel, I really can't fathom why people are so wed to the things, it's just another flavour of Dinojuice.
a more recent petrol hybrid is going to be in the 60-70+ mpg range where a diesel might scrape mid-50s.
Is this hybrid or PHEV?
I have a 2021 MK4 Skoda Octavia Estate 150TDi DSG. Can get 60mpg easily if sticking to speed limits. Have had close to 80 mpg driving like miss Daisy and hypermiling trucks. No petrol has ever come close to that for me. Diesels do have their place but you have to do a decent mileage but it’s not as high as people say to break even especially if you’re buying second hand. I always use Shell V power so that may inflate the figures a bit. Also the onboard mpg may inflate figures a bit. It’s a very good car mechanically but let down massively by the worst in car infotainment of any car I’ve ever had. I will never ever have another VW group car ever again. It’s that bad.
My 2011 Passat plays Radio 3 OK. That's all the "infotainment" I need from it.
I’ve always found the Honest John website “real world mpg “ to be pretty accurate when making assessments for new car purchases.
I use the Fuelly app to monitor my fuel usage for work so to give you so some real figures to work with here’s some examples of long term figures my last 4 cars.
1) 2022 Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv X - 43 mpg
2) 2020 Mazda 3 2.0 Skyactiv X - 42 mpg
3) 2018 Mini Clubman Cooper SD - 47mpg
4) 2017 Golf GTD -48 mpg
those are averages over the ownership period of each car. I typically cover 20-25k more a year and my mileage is split 70% urban/30% motorway.
As you can see my Mazdas are petrol and not far behind the diesels that I had before and factoring in fuel prices which are in favour of petrol the cost to fuel the petrol cars isn’t too far off.
The Mazda will easily achieve 50mpg plus on a motorway run.
2018 Leon diesel 2 litre 150bhp here.
I currently get 60mpg out of it.
In the summer it will be nearer or just over 70mpg.
The Mazda will easily achieve 50mpg plus on a motorway run.
Can get 60mpg at 60mph on a motorway trip in our Mazda 3 but it's no estate car & I'm guessing the Mazda 6 is going to be a lot bigger/heavier (don't be tempted get a Mazda diesel)
Leon diesel estate is a good shout.
I’m not sure your familiar with what a Leon is
It's the poor man's Golf. It's not got comparable carrying capability to a van or an estate such as an Octavia, which is where this started.
My 2011 Passat plays Radio 3 OK. That’s all the “infotainment” I need from it.
Trouble is, the climate, navigation, phone, Bluetooth etc run through it...so when it fails (which it does on a daily basis), you're ****ed.
(Octavia 20 plate with the same shit infotainment box as above...and another one that will never buy another VW group car as a result of it and the absolute shit show of customer service who deny it's even a problem that it turns itself off every journey)
What else would you expect from the company that gave you Dieselgate? <br /><br />
Back to the OP. We had a Toyota Corolla Verso hybrid automatic estate as a hire car for two weeks in Sicily. It returned a measured 73mpg average over the 2k km that we put on it.
Recently bought a 2012 Peugeot 508SW 2.0 HDi.
Got over 800 miles on the first tank at 52mpg brim to brim.
Not bad for sonthing that's big, comfortable, very wellequipped and not too bad to drive.
Google says the Leon estate boot is 610 litres, Octavia 640 (and only since 2021, before that it was 610 as well).
Some eye-boggling mileages being quoted above, so why do we never see better than 35mpg from our hybrid (electric assist only) Hyundai Tucson 😭😭
I know it's a big SUV but I get the impression people are still quoting north of 40mpg for these types of car? We got a smidge better out of our diesel CR. but more like 36-38mpg.
I drive in 'eco' mode which if nothing else seems most comfortable cruising between 50-60mpg, in fact if I'm not concentrating it sits closer to 50mph on dual carriageway!
My theory was that eco mode doesn't use the e-assist as it is specifically designed to avoid bug accelerations, have been curious to stick it into sport mode to see what happens 🙄
I'd go for a Toyota Corolla Touring. Petrol hybrid is very efficient, I get 70mpg out of mines.
It'll be way more reliable than any VAG product, plus there is a 10 year warranty on Toyota (as long as you get it serviced at a Toyota garage) makes it an appealing used purchase IMO
I'd probably also go for the corolla estate, but it's worth looking at astra estates with the 1.6 diesel. We can get up to 70mpg in the same engine in our zafira, the astra is significantly more aerodynamic. Being undesirable, they're also really cheap at 3 years old.. here's one for 10k
… though i’d like to see you get a 3 seater sofa transported from one house to another in the Leon 😛.
its not a realistic comparsion when you can only fit in 10% of the stuff you couldwith the previous two.
Do read others saying that thier Superb gets almost identical mpg. I've a colleague with a Touran with same engine.
The point being that some of the newer petrols are damn efficient, narrowing the diesel gap, and in my experience do it with less maintenance and fuel per gallon costs.
I have the petrol Leon (well, it’s the girlfriends but I’m driving it while waiting for my new car)
2.0 Petrol (194hp), since reading this thread I thought I’d try to see how economical I can be in it. Since filling up I’ve done 218 miles, averaged 36mph at 48.1 mpg. That’s a commute with 70% on motorway and flowing dual carriageway plus some city centre urban (Liverpool, so fairly busy)
Theres no way I could get over 50mpg in that car. Car is in eco mode, it’s automatic and I’ve used cruise control when I could.
(And the infotainment is also annoying)
Some eye-boggling mileages being quoted above, so why do we never see better than 35mpg from our hybrid (electric assist only) Hyundai Tucson 😭😭
Because hybrids + SUVs are heavy unaero pieces of shit, over the same 75mile journey driving the same I could get 60mpg out of my 2015 Volvo V40 diesel or just about 40mpg from a 2023 Volvo xc40 hybrid.
Looking at, for example, a Skoda Octavia, the published figures show that the 2.0L diesel supposedly does 62mpg, but the various petrol models are 45-52mpg (I know that all of those figures are achieved on a test track, so in real life conditions will be somewhat less).
So the petrol is forecast to be between 73 & 83 % as efficient - treat them as a comparison.
I pay no attention to fuel economy whatsoever, current 320d xDrive auto has averaged nearly 50mpg over 60k.
Test results for the 320d are 54-60mpg and Honest John quotes 44,5mpg based on user inputs.
Pretty much every journey I do sees me doing at least 60 (I live on a 60 road) and always in Comfort with Sport used occasionally for overtakes etc.
Be careful with corolla estates they're the taxi of choice so could have had a hard life and then been clocked back. Maybe look at seat wear etc to judge the mileage is true. My parents get 50-60mpg out of their ch-r with town driving +2-3 miles of b road per journey.
Diesel with better mpg than a petrol will also be better co2 which is much more important than other pollution, as long as it's euro6.
hybrids + SUVs
My experience of hybrid hire cars (Toyota, Mercedes and Kia) is that they just do not do as well on a long run. I am sure around the doors they may be better - but an hour or more run and they can be worse.
Because hybrids + SUVs are heavy unaero pieces of shit
Since when does the drivetrain make a car un-aero? Priuses are pretty aero.
Ours got about the same on motorway trips as our 2l diesel, either side of 60mpg (we're talking 2006 cars). It was worse around town than it was on motorway, but nowhere near as much as the diesel - the hybrid dropped to low 50s around town and the diesel to low-mid 30s.
in my experience do it with less maintenance
How does a petrol have less maintenance than a diesel, incidentally?
Apologies, I meant "hybrid + SUV =" rather than hybrids in general.
robertajobb
It’s the
poorthinking man’s Golf.
Fixed that for you 😉, but then so long as the car has the features I want, is comfortable & reliable I am not fussed about whether the plastic near my feet is squishy or not.
And lets face it, the Golf looks very bland. In a world of pretty dull car designs, the Golf is right up there.
My VW Golf 2008 2.0 TDI 105bhp DSG averages 60mpg on 70mph motorway runs with A roads at either end.
Most economical car I've had.
I'm pretty sure you can have 2 electric chargers on one house.
How does a petrol have less maintenance than a diesel, incidentally?
I found my (higher miles) diesels had more go wrong such as EGR, DPF, MAF sensors clogging, turbo getting sticky vanes etc. And that was with me driving 25k+ miles a year around the Highlands on longer journeys.