[Closed] New Forest scrapping boris bike scheme

Dear dear me. Can those who support it not make their voices heard ?

Sign here
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/new-forest-national-park-authority-implement-multi-million-pound-rural-equivalent-of-boris-bikes-that-already-have-secured-funding-a-preferred-supplier-overwhelming-public-support/sponsors/new

massive twitter campaign instead? it's 2014 😀

is driving down there that bad? Seems crazy to have the opportunity to do this an throw it away and not sort out obvious problems that need to be dealt with.

there certainly is a vocal local anti-bike minority with influence

Very sad if the NIMBYs are to blame for this.

I had some work at Fawley many years ago ,and had a fantastic day on a hire bike going round the New Forest area.

I just thought I had better balance this thread out with the thoughts of the 'proper' locals
[b]
Get Bikes Off Our Roads[/b]

This is the campaign manifesto to get cyclists off the roads of the New Forest. There is a long history of nuisence cyclists cluttering our roads causing traffic delays and scaring the horses with their bright lights and riddiculous clothing. It is time that this stupidity was halted and the New Forest returned to the historic situation that allowed people to drive about their business without hinderence.

There has been much hysteria spread by the bike loving hippies but lets look at the facts. When there are cycling events held they cordon of roads, have long convoys of riders that are impossible to overtake without risking your wing mirrors and the pubs fill up with sweaty people. These people are a positive hazzard and there have been a number of accidents caused by cyclists riding under cars or in front of cars trying to pull out of junctions.

I do not want to appear against change and in fact I am positively in favour of it. I understand that in previous generations there was a certain amount of rural poverty and young men and girls were forced to cycle between the villages but we have moved on. Let us embrace that change and realise that it is better to drive to the work or the pub than cycle there and arrive sweaty, smelly with bad hair. This is even more true for the return journey from the pub where the swaying cyclist is likely to injury oithers and themselves while the gentleman in the airconditioned car will remain alkert and safely ensconced in their modern safety cage.

So, if you are a right minded man please join me in this campaign and encourage your woman to do likewise. Ban cyclists from the roads of the forest to prevent traffic delays, scratches to your cars, drunken idiots swaying across the highway and men inappropriately dressed. You know it makes sense.

🙂

^^. 😀

Excellent, WCA! Just needs a gratuitous & offensive reference to gypsies / üntermenschen etc

Quick trawl for genuine facts from Hampshire CC 2013 to back up my bigoted stereotyping

Between 2001 and 2011 there has been an decline in the
percentage of the working age population from 59.2% to
58.6%. There has been a particularly large decline amongst
young adults aged 25-39 (from 17.6% to 14.2%)

94.9% of New Forest's resident population are estimated
to be of ethnic group 'White British'

Total Dependency has risen due to the increasing numbers
of older people, whilst child dependency has declined

There are 2.3 people per hectare living in the New Forest.
This is below both the South East and England and Wales
population densities of 4.5 and 3.7 respectively.

Most growth since 2001 has been in the oldest age groups,
the 65 and over's increased by 15.3%.

Christianity remains the largest religion in the New Forest
at 65.2% however it has experienced a large decline
since 2001. The percentage with no religion has
increased by 84.3%.

I think that given the age demographics we should be campaigning for less cycle paths and more mobility scooter paths and parking for zimmer frames

so then the relevance of those facts to a bigot is?

They re-enforce my prejudices.

Clearly we are tight homogenous group who don't need a bunch of young, long haired bike riding loonies making unnecessary changes to our nicely established way of life.

Altogether now..."for the greater good"!

I anticipate we'll see a lot more of this sort of thing now they've appointed the Head Verderer as head of the National Park Committee too.

And yes, it is a VERY small bunch who hold ALL the power in the forest - a very elite club - who generate all this nonsense. They only represent their own interests, which is using the forest as a free farm for their stock, and preserving the place as some kind of 1930's museum.

And they vote themselves in. Democracy? Bollocks!

Just in case anyone thought the views I expressed were real, they weren't and I have signed the petition

Nick –

Thanks for signing Forest Cyclist’s petition. By adding your name, you became a part of this campaign for change.

Seems to be a common theme amongst a certain group of society, who don't appear to want to share the trails with others! I have noticed this in my local area. Even had a punishment pass the other day from the My Little Pony Club community who decided that he wouldn't wait and galloped passed me on a narrow muddy uphill track the other day 😈 Seemed to take offence when I pointed out that his HiViz vest said on the back 'Please Slow Down'. Showed the GoPro footage to my other half who used to be a Horse Riding Instructor and she said what he did was bloody dangerous. 🙄
Despite being polite, slowing down, saying thank you to them, they do not want to show others the same courtesy 🙄
Thought we would have left this petty animosity in the 90's 😕

Are you local??!

[img] [/img]

^ looks uncannily like some of the NFNPA committee and Verderers court members down here

Its been quite hard to segment whether this is only the 'boris bikes' scheme or whether the 3.5 million was for some other infrastructure as well. it seems to be just the bike hire scheme.

for what its worth, I think 3.5 million quid is a lot to spunk on a few fancy bikes if they don't get used - personally I'd rather see the money put into decent (non roadside) picturesque cycle routes that were targeted to make bike use preferable - for example a short cut cycle path from a park and ride location on one side of a tourist town that was quicker and easier to use than taking your car into the centre.

stats say that something like 50% of people have bicycles, they just don't use them - personally I feel that provision should start by getting the people who already own them to use them more

the problem with the new forest is that there's nowhere to enjoyably use your bike safely without dickheads on the road trying to run you over, and officious bollocks from the talibaneverything telling you that anyone who dares commit the heinous crime of cycling off road anywhere in the forest will be sacrificed on a local altar for scaring the ponies and killing baby robins in the face.

Just think about the MTB trails that you could build in the new forest with 3 million quid!

TBH the actual bike hire scheme looks potentially risky financially given the funding is for infrastructure only (running costs would be another thing) but the reasoning being given that they need to keep bikes off the roads due to local sentiment is ludicrous.

I ride (road and offroad) round there quite a bit and its really not bad at all given the picture the NFNPA paint, offroad is annoying at times due to lack of routes and attitude (I've been told off by horseriders on a few occasions despite being on legal routes and at low speed) and onroad you do get the occasional idiot but by and large its no worse than anywhere else, the problem seems to stem from the Verderers and a small group of old horsey types who thought national park status would be yet another tool to keep riff-raff out.

Edit - just to support WCA's stereotyping, last time I went to a pub in the forest while on a ride (the Red Shoot) a group of trophy wives turned up in 4x4's and proceeded to loudly slag off cyclists at the table next to ours, clearly for our benefit, it was kind of ironic as the red shoot has always been one of the more cycling/hiking/camping friendly pubs and if anyone was out of place it was the permatanned second wives club,

ninfan - Member

Its been quite hard to segment whether this is only the 'boris bikes' scheme or whether the 3.5 million was for some other infrastructure as well. it seems to be just the bike hire scheme

As it says in the headline, header and article £2m from the £3.5m awarded is for the cycle scheme.

ninfan - Member
for what its worth, I think 3.5 million quid is a lot to spunk on a few fancy bikes if they don't get used

'If' - would it have got to the point of awarding the money if demand hadn't been proven? The £2m is for "20 electronically controlled hire stations and 250 bicycles" - again as mentioned in the article.

[i]A fresh wave of concern exists about the safety of on-road cycling.[/i]

Presumably the concern is linked to the increasing numbers of old (drivers) in the area, from WCA's numbers.

How much impact would this (should it become reality) have on the bike hire businesses in Brockenhurts and the like?

Assuming they haven't already been burnt to the ground by pitchfork wielding mobs that is.

Quite often skirt the edges of the forest on my road bike rides and am always relieved to head back north.

The boris bike scheme was about £2m of the £3.5m DfT grant which NFNPA staff secured. Of the rest, it is being used on sustainable transport infrastructure around the Forest inc. a new hub/shop at Brockenhurst. We have benefitted to the tune of £100K so far from the fund. The staff at the authority are great and want to make a difference but the committee/verderers make life hard sometimes. Some staff have got so fed up with the blocking and impasses they have moved on to other pastures. The fund is time limited and mainly for capital works which makes it hard for some organisations to get things sorted in time with things like planning permission if needed. Luckily we had plans already in place and could act quickly. Also our cycling improvements were all on our own land so no-one could really complain about the impact on 'sensitive' areas of the Forest.
Hopefully the CTC as the national cycling charity can get involved and do something constructive this time.

Wow, the New Forest sounds like a ****ing horrible place - traffic-heavy roads, uncontrolled herds of free-roaming feral animals, inhabited exclusively by froth-mouthed Daily Mail readers. Sort of like Swindon but with more trees.

'If' - would it have got to the point of awarding the money if demand hadn't been proven?

there was a public consultation on the scheme earlier this year, which seemed rather late in the process.

The £2m is for "20 electronically controlled hire stations and 250 bicycles" - again as mentioned in the article.

Yes, I wasn't very clear - my point is that its not clear whether the cancellation of the bike hire project leads to the forfeiture/return of just the 2 million allocated for that, or the full 3.5 million as has been reported elsewhere, and whether the other planned projects will now go ahead or if they were reliant on the continuance of the bike hire scheme.

The NPA report on the issue doesn't clarify: http://t.co/FbGjxs6dWX

I just thought I had better balance this thread out with the thoughts of the 'proper' locals

Get Bikes Off Our Roads

This is the campaign manifesto to get cyclists off the roads of the New Forest. There is a long history of nuisence cyclists cluttering our roads causing traffic delays and scaring the horses with their bright lights and riddiculous clothing. It is time that this stupidity was halted and the New Forest returned to the historic situation that allowed people to drive about their business without hinderence.

There has been much hysteria spread by the bike loving hippies but lets look at the facts. When there are cycling events held they cordon of roads, have long convoys of riders that are impossible to overtake without risking your wing mirrors and the pubs fill up with sweaty people. These people are a positive hazzard and there have been a number of accidents caused by cyclists riding under cars or in front of cars trying to pull out of junctions.

I do not want to appear against change and in fact I am positively in favour of it. I understand that in previous generations there was a certain amount of rural poverty and young men and girls were forced to cycle between the villages but we have moved on. Let us embrace that change and realise that it is better to drive to the work or the pub than cycle there and arrive sweaty, smelly with bad hair. This is even more true for the return journey from the pub where the swaying cyclist is likely to injury oithers and themselves while the gentleman in the airconditioned car will remain alkert and safely ensconced in their modern safety cage.

So, if you are a right minded man please join me in this campaign and encourage your woman to do likewise. Ban cyclists from the roads of the forest to prevent traffic delays, scratches to your cars, drunken idiots swaying across the highway and men inappropriately dressed. You know it makes sense.

MEGALOL! 😆

mintimperial - Member

Wow, the New Forest sounds like a **** horrible place - traffic-heavy roads, uncontrolled herds of free-roaming feral animals, inhabited exclusively by froth-mouthed Daily Mail readers. Sort of like Swindon but with more trees.

Meeting on Tuesday - if you read the Standing Orders bit you can ask to speak.

[url= http://www.newforestnpa.gov.uk/info/20034/meetings/95/authority_and_committee_meetings#.U-ywgKMzN1x ]http://www.newforestnpa.gov.uk/info/20034/meetings/95/authority_and_committee_meetings#.U-ywgKMzN1x[/url]

Sort of like Swindon but with more trees

Wow, the New Forest sounds like a **** horrible place - traffic-heavy roads, uncontrolled herds of free-roaming feral animals, inhabited exclusively by froth-mouthed Daily Mail readers. Sort of like Swindon but with more trees.

^^ thats the imnpression you get if you believe these self-serving twunts - which only goes to further their cause by putting people off visiting.

I'm a 'local' riding 2 or 3 times a week in the forest and on road and have only had a handful of incidents in over 30 years. Look further than the local press (which is in the hands of the anti-bike set) and its actually a great place. The riding can also be great if you now where to look and where to be 'not obvious' 😉

No trails behind the Nationwide though

Actually there;s a great route starting behind the Nationwide in Totton, up the Test and either across to Lordswood or looping back to the Forest 😀

In this County [Hantshire] is New-Forest, formerly called Ytene, being about 30 miles in compass; in which said tract William the Conqueror (for the making of the said Forest a harbour for Wild-beasts for his Game) caused 36 Parish Churches, with all the Houses thereto belonging, to be pulled down, and the poor Inhabitants left succourless of house or home. But this wicked act did not long go unpunished, for his Sons felt the smart thereof; Richard being blasted with a pestilent Air; Rufus shot through with an Arrow; and Henry his Grand-child, by Robert his eldest son, as he pursued his Game, was hanged among the boughs, and so dyed. This Forest at present affordeth great variety of Game, where his Majesty oft-times withdraws himself for his divertisement

thats the imnpression you get if you believe these self-serving twunts - which only goes to further their cause by putting people off visiting.

Well quite. I'm sure it's lovely scenery and all, but I certainly wouldn't consider riding there, it's pretty clear that I'd not be welcome. And I have to say that I'm highly unlikely to ever visit the New Forest at all, even without a bike, following all the nimbyist coverage recently. The place sounds thoroughly snotty and unfriendly. After all, there are plenty of other UK national parks to go and spend my money in, most of them without such obviously sociopathic tendencies...

And yes, it is a VERY small bunch who hold ALL the power in the forest - a very elite club
And they vote themselves in.
Look further than the local press (which is in the hands of the anti-bike set)

MintImperial - It really is a very small minority. They are unfortunately influential and seem to time on their hands and make an awful lot of noise!

I'm local too and day to day have no bother riding at all, bar the occasional close pass on the road or the very rare opinionated horse rider\walker.

Unfortunately I don't think there's anything you or I or the local cycling organisations can do to talk sense to them, meet half or anything. It's their forest and that's that, is certainly how it comes across 👿

Donk, yep as 40mpg says, they vote themselves in. A small closed circle.

40MPG I assume the local groups will be in attendance? Or do you think there's simply no point, decisions have already been made, so best go for a ride instead?

They have their opinions, NOTHING any sane person will be able to say or do to change that, so **** 'em and ride as you normally would. Respectfully and with courtesy.
Anyone who doesn't like that can go **** themselves.

bigyinn - Member
They have their opinions, NOTHING any sane person will be able to say or do to change that, so * 'em and ride as you normally would. Respectfully and with courtesy.
Anyone who doesn't like that can go * themselves.

POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO #

+1, just get my head down and ride on.....I'm not sure there is anything anyone can do (even though I have been photographed and threatened by the Verderers) - not like I have a licence plate or anything!

[i]And I have to say that I'm highly unlikely to ever visit the New Forest at all, even without a bike, following all the nimbyist coverage recently.[/i]

Come down to the [url= http://www.BigBikeBash.co.uk ]Big Bike Bash[/url] in the heart of the New Forest and see how lovely it is and how good the riding could be. You will see how friendly (most) the locals are and why it is frustrating to be so restricted by the few.

I may be wrong, but don't National Parks get funding from the Public Purse? i.e. We as taxpayers all contribute to the running and maintainance of the Park?

If so, sod 'em. Its our land so we'll use it!

may be wrong, but don't National Parks get funding from the Public Purse? i.e. We as taxpayers all contribute to the running and maintainance of the Park?

If so, sod 'em. Its our land so we'll use it!

Yep!

And I do! It's a great place 😀

only a scoundrel would abuse the rules of the NF

after all, they've barely needed changing since the 1870's so they must be good

[i]they've barely needed changing since the 1870's so they must be good[/i]

Just the bit saying carriages can drive over the scum people has been revised to say cars can be...

It's a delicate balance trying to keep the off road cycling network that we currently have in the new forest. The FC and the NPA are working hard at a number of levels to guarantee the future of the cycle access that we have currently. It is not at all guaranteed and the FC have to ask the verderers for permission every few yrs.

The verderers are uppity about the off road cycling because they see it as a recreational facility. Legally the FC have to ask their permission to add or develop any recreational facilities on the forest as they can be considered to have an impact on commoning. For balance it is important to consider that the verderers main purpose is to "manage" and protect commoning/ grazing interests and it is this 1000+ years of grazing that makes the forest the unique place that it is.

When the verderers find people off the network cycling in the "tranquil"areas they just go back to the FC and tell them that they aren't managing access on the current network so why should they allow the permissive access to continue and why should they allow any extra links and extensions. They just see that perpetuating more off network access.

The legality of access on a bike in the NF is an issue due to the law and property act. This give free right of access across the NF on foot and horse but doesn't grant any "higher rights" such as on a bike or a car. It's a very old act and outdated but I guess it also is the reason that we can't ride on public footpaths across the uk.

The verderers don't administer this piece of legislation but they utilise it to get what they want.

The other fly in the ointment is that the whole of the FC estate in the NF, "The Crown Lands" is a SSSI and also a SAC, Special Site of Scientific Interest and Special Area of Conservation respectively. The SSSI status is the highest level of conservation designation in the uk and the SAC is the highest level of conservation designation in Europe. The new forest ecology is genuinely unique and very protected by law. This makes it very difficult to reconcile recreation of any type and the protection of the conservation status. It's almost impossible just to build a new track or trail to link up a route.

It must also seem genuinely crazy to someone on a bike to be stopped by a an FC guy in a landrover and told you can't ride there and to turn back and then see the landrover and a massive tractor trundle down that same road. All that guy is doing is trying to protect access for the hundreds of thousands each year who use the off road network as if the verderers see that same person riding off route it becomes more ammunition to get the whole route thrown out. Now I'm not sure that will ever be possible given the current levels of use but what it does do is make any time that the FC or the NPA or the Cycle Working Group have for discussion on cycling get completely drowned in arguments about current off network use making it difficult to move forward on actually sorting out new links or better access.

The road cycling thing is another issue altogether. It's just perpetuated by people who come to live here jumping on the bandwagon just fit in down the local pub. It's crazy that you'd prefer an extra 100 cars to be driving through Lyndhurst than 100 bikes. That said, if you're a local it is a busy place in the summer and it can be a pain in the traffic when you're just trying to get to work or the shops and the huge(and excellent) increase in road cycling means that there has been a massive increase in bikes on the already crowded roads of the NF. Obviously I'm a cyclist myself and I treat other cyclists, and motorists with respect on the roads but it can be frustrating to be stuck behind a big spread out group on a narrow winding road just as much as it's frustrating to be sat behind a dawdling caravanner for 4 miles on the a35.

I don't know what the answer is to this one, it's just a perceived problem mainly but it's the fashionable moan lately in the NF for those who want to fit in. 5 yrs ago it was river restoration, 5 yrs before that it off road cycling, before that it was probably something else.

The new forest ecology is genuinely unique and very protected by law. This makes it very difficult to reconcile recreation of any type and the protection of the conservation status.

Besides when stopped can't every rider say "I'm just off down the shops for some milk do you want anything while I'm there? recreational riding? no sir, not me, can't stand those bloody hippy rec riders"

Lyndhurst is absolutely awful in the summer with traffic because of the one way system and traffic lights as you approach the town. Oddly thats not caused by bikes though, but its accepted as ok.

Whilst I accept that the NF is different, if a horse can ride somewhere than I'll be happy to ride my bike there. If someone cant tell the difference in terms of envirnomental impct between the two, they really should be in a position to make decisions and enforcements relating to them.

As I've said, I'll continue to ride pretty much where I please in the NF. What can they ACTUALLY do to ME?

Burko, its interesting to put the law of property act issue in context- In 1925, S193 of the Law of Property act granted the public rights of access to common land for 'air and exercise' - It was not until 1998 that this right was recognised as extending to horse riding on common , after a court case - one of the pronouncements in that case was that "Parliament intended in 1925 to confer the broadest possible rights of access for air and exercise to those commons", although Mountain bikes remain excluded under a clause as they are 'carriages' or 'vehicles' within the meaning of the law - hence a clause written decades before the conception of mountain bikes stops them being used to enjoy the broad right of 'air and exercise' it is of course difficult to square this with the intention of parliament at the time, who wrote that clause to prevent Gypsy encampments. Its also important to remember that this is only a default position and the landowner retains full authority to permit cycling, and in the absence of a demonstrable and real threat to conservation (and cycling is not mentioned as a problem in any of the New Forest SSSI condition reports, unlike overgrazing by commoners horses) there are reasons IMO why the failure to extend this access demonstrates a failure by the NPA to fulfil its statutory duties.

All National Park Authority members have a primary responsibility to ensure that the Authority furthers the statutory Park purposes. There is a useful Countryside Agency publication on this front, http://t.co/nzSGPJj0v1 and shows those duties to be:

• to conserve and enhance the natural beauty, wildlife and cultural heritage of the National Parks, and:
• to promote opportunities for the understanding and enjoyment of the special qualities (of the Parks) by the public.

Its goes on to say that the latter duty is equal in importance to the former (except in rare circumstances where conservation clashes) and admits that national park authorities in the past have misinterpreted this as a duty to educate rather than a duty to encourage and provide for recreation in the national park.

It remains difficult to square this with some of the recent actions and decisions taken by the NPA, I would clearly question whether they and the NPA committee are complying with the law.

At the moment the 'ban cycling' focus has shifted to the mass participation events, such as the Wiggle sponsored sportives.

The very few times an official comes across a stray mountain biker does seem to have become a minor thing in the last couple of years.

I fully support keeping these mass events on the roads 😀

Don't think I'm in the anti cycling camp anyone. I'm just trying to put things into context.

I'm all for access on bike but what won't do the cause any good at the moment is doing things that jeopardize access on bike for the masses.

The law and property act is quite rightly an ass in this case and an antiquated law. The problem is the reluctance for any organisation locally to test this law either way due to cost, staff time and local politics and the potential for a loss. If the FC lose, then no cycling at all, if the Verderers lose then in their eyes there's no limit to what recreational disturbance there will be. It's a big risk both ways.

The erosion issue - bikes vs horses isn't really ever a part of debates as far as I remember. There is generally a lack of reason and logic in the Forest. It's all about the principle of additional recreation and disturbance of tranquility.

The NPA aren't the landowner and the New Forest isn't technically common land. I think the NPA's hands are a bit tied in this case although there is work being done albeit slowly through the RMS and the Cycle Working Group to try to move things on.

In the NF it's all about picking your battles. There isn't time to fight everything as the FC has a statutory role in delivering across a wide area and has to have working relationships with the statutory consultees such as the Verderers, NPA, NFDC and HCC , Natural England etc to carry out a lot of other important work.

Where the FC can support and promote off road cycling they will, you only have to look at the levels of access around the UK and the millions spent on trails and trail centres. It is more difficult in the NF due to the conservation designations and the law set out in the various New Forest Acts that give the Verderers their powers and the FC it's duties in relation to managing the NF.

If the FC lose, then no cycling at all

Scaredypants.

There are 100 miles or so of gravel tracks that hundreds of thousands of people use every yr. Despite the poor links it's possible to drive to a car park with your kids and get a ride in with them in fairly safe terrain.

There's a lot of good people using the routes and a lot of people getting back on bikes, getting their first hire bike and riding. This has all got to be a good thing.

There's also a lot of good people making a living out of renting, selling, fixing bikes that get used on the facility.

The loss of that facility might be meaningless to you but for all those mentioned above it would be a deal breaker.

It's pretty unlikely given the level of use and the period of time that the routes have been in operation.

For the verderers, and the new forest association it's just like you turning up on some bit of upland in your 4x4 and demanding to drive down a bridle way. I'm not saying it is but that's what some of the local decision makers and their supporters think.

Just a dream but imagine linking together the towns with a series of tracks. Tourists could cycle between locations off the roads, locals could commute between towns on gravel paths, the routes would all link together so you can do loops and extend them as you like.

[img] [/img]

This is designed to address the casual cyclist and local trips rather than offering mountain bikes fun. i do have a cunning plan for more interesting mountian biking outside of the control of the Verderers

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/hampshire-test-valley-southampton-the-forest-park-framework-call-to-action

burko,

The loss of that facility might be meaningless to you but for all those mentioned above it would be a deal breaker.

More likely they'd ignore the rules (that they probably wouldn't know anyway) and ride along any route they fancied. I see kids bikes outside tents in all of the forest's campsites; do we imagine that parents are telling their kids not to ride round nearby land as it's not permitted ?

However, as you also said, there's no way they'd remove those permissions anyway. Regardless, they're genuinely meaningless to me - I'll ride those paths whether or not some bloke in Lyndhurst (whose job is pretty much to restrict public access to the place) says I can. The people the verderers represent (CDA and their like) are an anachronism even for the 20th century - and they know it, but cling to the imagery as it protects their interests

(WCA, good lad - keep t'north empty !)

What is the 'north' you speak of? is that where the mystic trails behind the Nationwide at Swindon are or is there land beyond that?

North of the A31 - no electricity and dragons are still running the place, but it's a home of sorts

There's also a lot of good people making a living out of renting, selling, fixing bikes that get used on the facility.
The loss of that facility might be meaningless to you but for all those mentioned above it would be a deal breaker.

the best thing that could happen is the huge network of gravel tracks be opened up to get people off the roads

Andyfla - I could provoke that situation if you think it will help

We're all after the same thing here, my posts were to just to put things into context and explain some of the real issues that organisations like the FC and the NPA face. I wanted to try to get across that there are a lot of people fighting our corner and there's a lot of work going on through the rms and the cycle working group and through the FCs constant work keeping the routes open. It's not ideal and it's difficult to influence an organisation like the verderers as they are just so far away from us lot on here.

WCA - cant make anything worse

Mass trespass time - aka Kinder in the 1930's ?

I thought either wee in their shoes or nuke them from space - any preference?

If WCA's demographic analysis is anything to go by, the problem will dwindle away as they all trot off to nursing homes over the next 10 years!

Brooes

I thought that 11 yrs ago..... Seems life too good here, too much organic and fresh food and relaxed rural living.... Life expectancy better in the south than Glasgow for example.

Problem also is that any new people moving in from up East want to get grounded/rooted into the notoriously prickly local community as quickly as possible so first night in the local pub or outside the local school it's all "oh, I hate these damn cyclists, all over the place on the narrow roads, can't get the little range rover sport past them, causing trouble and traffic jams, riding all over the forest, getting in the way of the poor commoners whilst they're busy pinching firewood etc...."

It quickly buys them (they think it does) kudos if they can quickly moan about the things they think locals are moaning about (unfortunately their research is done by buying the lymington times).

Nuking the lymington times would go some way to solving the two issues as they are the ones really stirring things up every week!

Perhaps it needs pushing up the food chain if certain locals don't want to 'share' the forest with other users, maybe it should have it's National Park status revoked along with any subsidies, that I dare say they are milking.
Maybe someone in the NF could start a campaign for Open Access as they have in Scotland. I bet that would get the NF NIMBY's twitching 😉

Vote just taken:

[i]Those for the scheme being scrapped 12 - Against 2 - Abstained 3[/i]

Not a surprise, although disappointing the scheme is scrapped - however I'm not convinced it would have been viable or would have had that big a take-up. The idea was great in theory.

The only positive which may spring from this, is the potential backlash from the press and cycling / sustainable transport organisations, which may benefit future decisions.

I was out in the Forest today, and the number of families / leisure cyclists around (off road) were numerous, and this tourism brings much needed ££'s to local towns like Lyndhurst / Brokenhurst / Burley that would be totally dead if it weren't for tourism. In this day and age, it's hard to see how the Verderers have any legal status or standing.

I propose that the money saved is used to install these

[img] [/img]

on all the 40mph roads over the open forest

Should please the locals no end 😈