New family/bike car dilemma - or should I buy a day van?

I replaced a Saab 93 estate with my first T5. No bigger parking footprint and loads more space. First trip out loading in the pram and all the other stuff needed was a revelation. Started off with 124k and sold it with 175k. Still check the reg every so often and its still got MOT and getting out and about.

My 150bhp Saab would do 35mpg around town and 50+ on a run. My first T5 was an 84bhp so obviously slower but would do 35mpg around town and 42mpg on a run. My current 180bhp T5 manages to be both faster and have better MPG.

I wouldnt hesitate to recommend a van for what you have planned, having everything inside away from prying eyes and having space to sit in out of the elements is brilliant. Yes you'll pay a premium but then it'll retain it when you sell.

I bought a car which is too useful and contains too much space...complained no-one ever.
Get a day van, whatever that is.

Van. Van. Van.

Currently road tripping with Wife, 3 kids, dog, 2 sups, 5 bikes and luggage.

Today had 4 bikes on the tow rack and 5 inside with 5 people. The other 4 went in their car and we had a great day.

I bough my first van about 23 years ago.  I'm on my 4th now and I've not had a car since.  Admittedly I am very fortunate that my wife has the car (well, as a couple we have a car and a van is a more accurate statement) and I do fairly low mileage (4-5k a year average over the last few years).

I love my van. It swallows kit for holiday, is amazing as a base camp on trips, great for biking, I've also seemingly been doing up a house forever. Can collect 8x4 sheets, 3m worktops, white goods, pre built kitchen units etc no bother!

If you routinely need to cart a lot of kit around, or want some shelter, it's a great tool.

Downsides?  I can't take it to the tip (since we own a car they won't issue us a permit) and it's a Euro 5 so subject to clean air zone charges.  Changing it for a like for like Euro 6 would pay for a lot of trips to Bradford/Sheffield/Bristol or wherever.

Van every time

3 kids

1 wife obvs!

Me

Holidays/days out at the weeknd - perfect

Space to get the kids changed stood up, a big "locker" for kit.

Room for bikes, to make a brew, to sit in for food if it's shitty

No downsides

You could buy a van and have a nice place to shove bikes (in theory) and make a brew once a week.

But if you're buying a spendy van with a nice interior then maybe you won't want filthy bikes in it and if you go to BPW or CYB or any large trail centre you'll see a lot of T5's (other lifestyle vans are available) adorned with bike racks because once you've put another row of seats in you're into dismembering your bikes to load them in anyway.

Much of this does depend on what mileage you do where you are not loaded to the roof in an estate. If you do hardly any driving beyond your leisure activities then vans work. If you do a decent chunk of solo or lightly loaded mileage then it's a wasteful (and imo less pleasant) way of doing it.

I thought about a van last time I changed car. It would have been marginally better for biking, sailing and camping but I concluded in the end that this was outweighed by the downside of using it for my daily driving (of which there's a fair bit for work). Cost, environmental factors and driving experience.

I also figured if it's nice enough out to make a brew at the carpark instead of dashing back to a warm shower then I'll put the brew-kit on a bench or support the nearest cafe with the money I've saved on not buying and running a van.

For openness I'm halfway in between with an MPV because it means I can go on holiday with four of us, plus dog and two weeks kit without a roofbox, which means I can also rooftop kayaks or bikes. I couldn't do that in an estate, which I would much rather have for my daily driver.

For those who choose differently I have no axe to grind but for balancing out the van love I think it needs a little bit of a view from someone who decided it really wasn't necessary or the panacea of vehicle ownership.

T5 Kombi owner here. Previously had a T4 Kombi. Just love it. We’ve always had a car as well cos sometimes you just want/need something a smidge smaller that goes round corners a smidge faster but…

Seats 5 in comfort with 5 bikes in the back (some wheels off with the length of modern bikes these days).
Just done 900miles to Morzine. No racks or boxes, 4 bikes and luggage in the back, room for loads of booze on the way home. Sat at 80mph for hours at a time at 39mpg with the air con on.

Tip runs, awkward furniture, helping friends move, never folding a pushchair down, bikes, boards, boats all inside. Somewhere to change in the rain, or make a cup of tea.

They are a cliche for a reason, it just works.

Make sure you get an up and over rear door though.

Edit: it’s not a posh one so all bikes and filth go inside. We’ve done the floor with AstroTurf which sucks up all the sand and mud and stops stuff sliding around.

I don't know what a 'day van' is - Whilst I don't have kids I do have a wife and two bikes; I explored a number of options (including consulting on this forum) and I ended up with a short wheel base Peugeot Rifter.

Best thing I ever bought.

Granted, I have removed two of the 3 back seats in order to camp/get a bike in it, but I believe the LBW fits a bike in no probs with the seats in; and to be honest the SBW would too if the bikes were at an angle.

This is with both wheels on - with front wheel off, either is a good choice.

I decided against a proper van to convert for the tax reasons, so either get what is a essentially a people carrier or get a van classed as a camper (read: passenger vehicle) to avoid the extra tax you get on a box van.

Do it do it do it do it

A 'day van' is half way between a builders van and a camper. No beds, but nicer inside, maybe insulated and carpet. Maybe a pop out bed or kitchen pod. Awning rail perhaps.

Daft term, I don't get it, but I guess it's what I've got  - a modified kombi with stuff to make day trips easier.

Caravelle here - nicer than a van, flexible seating and all the space of a van. It’s a car when it comes to insurance, speed limits, toll roads and going to the tip (all good things) and also for VED which isn’t so good but mleh whatever.

The niceness has never stopped me using it as a tool - the carpets are exceptionally good quality and always hover up nicely from kid debris, bike mud and the worst of the garden and diy dump runs - really much better than the Velcro based upholstery the old zafira had where a dog hair became a permanent feature

If you value space and practicality I honestly don’t think there’s anything to beat it

Someone with a transit van will be along in a minute to bleat something about scene tax and how everyone that parks a t5 at a trail centre is a hopeless wannabe but mine has provided 9 years of joyous motoring with almost zero depreciation so basically free motoring - show me anything else that can do that!

• An alternative view. I have a 2010 C-Max that will take three bikes and everything for a weekend whilst doing 60mpg on a long trip. It will also carry all we need for a family of four camping holiday. If you need more space then you're taking too much. The reason you're thinking of a van is that cars such as the Qashqai have become the norm when in fact they are hopeless for anything practical. Get an estate.

Go for the van, if you don't get on with it you can always sell on

New (to me) T5 Kombi owner here

Sold my 2016 Focus ST3 WITH 49'000 miles on the clock to fund the T5

Van is great, sits 6 people whilst taking 3 bikes (no wheels off) or I can remove the rear seats in 30 seconds and have a full size van

I'm running the og rubber floor mat but have carpeted inside, any mud from the bikes just wipes off once dry, seats have some nice covers which again easily wipe down (used to use seat covers in the ST3 when MTB'ing and the bike went in the boot)

Only down side so far is lack of power, its only 140 bhp where as the Focus was 280 bhp

@gunz

One more kid and stuff means we need a bigger vehicle, or shall I leave one behind?

For what it's worth I have an estate (Passat b8) and it really doesn't offer all that much more space than the hatchback I had previously. The boot floor is high because of the spare wheel, it's narrow because of the independent rear suspension and the car isn't very tall so if you want to carry long(ish) flat things it's fine, but in terms of bulk capacity it's not as great as I had imagined.

It is not even close to comparable with any kind of van or MPV in terms of ability to shove anything and everything in but it's still long and awkward to park in tight spaces.

I'd say get a van. I would have if I didn't do 1000s of work miles a month.

I'm back in a similar situation after my Passat (good description @airvent ) was written off.

Does anyone have anything other than a VW?

I have a Berlingo van as my work vehicle and really like it. I'm on my second one due to somebody running into the first one. Really easy to live with, not too big for parking etc, plenty of storage spaces in the front, comfortable. Just recently had a Transit courier whilst waiting on insurance coming through. Nicer to drive but a bit smaller and I didn't find it as comfortable. Fords seem to be more expensive to buy so I didn't look at them for my replacement. You would need the L2 version of the Berlingo/Partner for the seats but they look to be very flexible with folding seats but not sure you'd get 4 people and bikes in the van. My original Berlingo needed very little spent on it, needed a new seatbelt but apart from that just a spring and some tyres I think. I had it for 50000 miles. But I spent £7000ish on the first one, 4 years old 30000 miles. £13000 for the new one, 5 years old and 18000 miles. Luckily I got nearly £7000 off the insurance.

Has anyone got a proper "day" van that seats 5-6? All the camper conversions I've seen aren't very pleasant for second row passengers as the seats are way back. The crew cab fixed second row type vans then don't have any room for making a sandwich or playing Scrabble when you're stopped.

One more kid and stuff means we need a bigger vehicle, or shall I leave one behind?

Well you could you go up one category of MPV to an SMax or similar. The CMax is a bad example for 5 as it's on the Focus platform but it's workable for 4 (if you don't need towing capacity/dog room), which is the OP's position.

Bearing in mind they're currently in a Qashquai it is probably large enough.

Thanks for your input... still no idea, I think I need to do more research. I'm not sure if a van would be great for 20% of the time and less than ideal for 80% of the time and a good estate car would be the opposite.

Yesterday I didn't know what a day van was. Now I think I need one

Thanks for your input… still no idea, I think I need to do more research. I’m not sure if a van would be great for 20% of the time and less than ideal for 80% of the time and a good estate car would be the opposite.

This is probably about right (more like 90/10 for me).

To me the rule for choosing my cars is buy what I need for peak requirements but don't carry a load of excess capacity for the sake of a small proportion of journeys. The SMax is hardly sprightly but it's nicer than the larger alternatives.

A Galaxy (or van) would have been better for us for about 10% of our annual mileage for a bit more luggage space (the main family holidays) and a bit of weekend biking convenience but an SMax is enough for those 3-4 weeks a year and better the rest of the time and I am prepared for a bit of packing pain/precision.

I should have said earlier we did consider a day van (for holidays etc.) PLUS a Corsa sized daily driver so we had two daily use cars and a low mileage per year day van. Decided we didn't want three vehicles on the drive.

Others will want to be able to "chuck it all in no matter what" or do other day van things and that's fine but isn't for me, YMMV.

Thanks for your input… still no idea, I think I need to do more research. I’m not sure if a van would be great for 20% of the time and less than ideal for 80% of the time and a good estate car would be the opposite.

This is exactly where we keep ending up. A van of some kind would be ace at many weekends and holidays. But it would costs more, no doubt.

We keep coming back to a decent size estate or MPV and bike racks or roof racks working most of the time, with occasional squeeze or faff of kit.

I just could not justify the extra running costs of a van as a family on a snug budget.

We've managed family of 5 to southern France or Alps with canoes and bikes on a Galaxy. We've done 4 of us to Spain with bikes. We've visited the four corners of the UK with bikes and boats and 5 of us. I've just had a comfortable 10 days across North of Scotland with 4 adults and bikes in the Leon estate.

And let's remember - buy the right estate and it's £20 tax, lower cost tyres, ULEZ compliant etc etc compared to many vans.

For me, the Transit drives every bit as nicely as a car. I'm not a boy racer, I don't care about making progress, overtaking or handling. If it drives nice, is comfortable and smooth, it's a win.

I've done 15,000 miles in 7 months in the Transit Custom, I'm more than happy.

Minehead next weekend, Pembrey the weekend after, then Glencoe the one after, the miles keep ticking up

Another thing to consider is lower speed limits for vans. Doesn't bother me but something you need to be aware of.

Not if you buy a "people carrier" van, mine has 6 seats and qualifies as a car

Me and MrsRNP have between us
Volvo V70
Volvo XC90
Peugeot Partner/Berlingo Multispace

The 'Blingo is the far more most useful from a volume of loadspace/chucking stuff in and clacking about in. It costs pennies to run - economical and parts are dirt cheap.

The V70 is the best for hauling stuff comfortably over long distances at speed. The XC90 is the least useful for load carrying due to it's higher cills.

My preferred choice is the Berlingo on a day to day basis.