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I've got a Denon UDM31 mini system in the living room, with a decent pair of Monitor audio bookshelf speakers. It's connected via DIN to 3.5mm phono cable to the back of the TV so instead of the shit little internal speakers it all comes out from the hifi and speakers. I can also plug my phone in to it to play spotify.
But it's not DAB so i can't get the range of radio, which I do use when WFH. I can plug phone in and use internet radio but then phone is stuck next to the TV while I work in the dining room, and if it rings I have to go and get it. And now, the CD player has packed up too. So, looking to replace.
I'd like DAB obvs, Bluetooth for streaming, needs to be connectable to the TV (which has other connection including digital optical audio), CD is not particularly necessary as I'm starting to clear them out and use streaming instead (yes, I realise if I'm getting rid of CDs who cares that CD has packed up, but it doesn't do the other things and is maybe symptomatic that it's all getting old)
Obvs choice is the newer Denon RDC M41 but what else might I consider for around that £200-250 mark, maybe a bit cheaper?
I've got a pretty good Yamaha jobby, it's discontinued now but this model seems to be similar:
(Edit - removed link as it is not, in fact, similar)
One thing i would really emphasise is that you want the app to be good and useable! Indeed if you're in this price range i would pretty much say it's one of the key priorities - you'll be using it several times a day so if it's a ballache to use it will completely undermine the whole experience. Yamaha uses MusicCast which is decent.
When i was looking, mags like What Hifi would review a unit and talk about the sound quality, then you'd go on forums and find that this £1000 unit has cheaped out on the app and rendered it basically unusable!
It's connected via DIN to 3.5mm phono cable
Can you clarify that? 3.5mm and phono are two different things and DIN could mean anything.
Sorry, not DIN, mistyped
3.5mm to 2x rca - so the headphone out connection of the tv goes to the aux in of the denon
When I looked into this a few years ago, I ended up with the Denon DM 41 DAB. It’s exceeded my already high expectations and is in my opinion very good for the money. I have the TV connected by the optical input and it works seamlessly.
On my recommendation my father bought one last year and he rates it as well. The only caveat is both of us are aware that we have reduced hearing range due to age (!) so might not suit hi-fi purists
If you look second hand, you might find a Cambridge Audio One within budget or a Yamaha Musicast.
Denon CEOS N12 DAB would be my choice.
I've got a previous model, the N10 and its very good for the price. Not a bad amp, and crucially as alluded to above the app is being maintained plus you don't have to use the app if you don't want to. The big plus with the N12 is it gets HDMI Arc which will simplify your TV connection no end.
Also has a CD player which is fab, really good quality (for the price).
EDIT ahhh sorry, didn't see your budget. N12 is around £600 but I think you can pick up the N10 for £350 or so.
You could get the ampster and radio from this range.
https://www.tangent-audio.com/electronics.html
I have the amp that I use in the same way... It's a good bit of kit. Only downside is it doesn't have a headphone socket for some reason.
Have a look at a Wiim Pro Plus or for a bit more an Ultra. I have one and it was easy to set up and works really well
I looked at the Wiim, but does it connect to speakers or just its own internal one?
Double post glitch
It's a budget stretch but this may do what you want https://www.richersounds.com/wiim-amp-silver/ (There's also a grey option for the same price).
Majority have some interesting little DAB units, including ones that add Internet streaming or bluetooth connectivity so makes a useful bridge between older hifi and more modern streaming services etc
I've got the tiny little Robinson one plugged into my luddite mix of 70s and 80s hifi playing through 60s speakers - nice and unobtrusive whilst having a clear display and a lttle remote - displays a nice discrete clock on the screen when in standby too
https://www.majority.co.uk/radios/
Denon CEOS N12 DAB would be my choice
I know it's well over the OP's budget, but I've just got one of these and it is excellent. Drives my Linn Kans really well, connects to everything. I also bought a pair of Denon Home 150s for the kitchen, which are fantastic little things. I can direct any of the sources from the N12, including the turntable, TV, DAB, NAS (running Plex) and the CD player to the 150s as well as or instead of the Kans, or I can use the 150s on their own. HEOS allows me to choose pretty much any source and send it to any combination of outputs.
Not what the OP asked for as it’s twice the budget but maybe of use to others
The Wiim products are streamers and would connect to your Denon unit with RCA cables. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread an alternative approach could be to replace the Denon kit with a Wiim Amp as they incorporate a streamer and DAC
I know it's 'recomend what you have', but I'd seriously consider this... it's far more versatile
Might be worth giving them a call to see if they will do a discount on the package, as they do package the amp with the CD player, but not the amp with the dab/radio unit.
Thanks, lots to look at. There's a Richer in town, might go and talk to them too.
3.5mm to 2x rca - so the headphone out connection of the tv goes to the aux in of the denon
That's really not an ideal connection. It's not what it's designed to do and it's analogue. I'd be looking at what digital outputs the TV had as a starting point, then finding an amp to match. HDMI-ARC, S/PDIF (optical or coaxial digital) or some such (I don't know what these baby stereo amps come prepared for these days).
It's worked fine for 10 years on this TV and another, as i said just converts the sound from crappy internal TV ones to come through the bigger ones. It might not be optimal but we're not huge film watchers experiencing a soundscape or whatever it is, I'm just a deaf old giffer trying to make sure I can hear Greg Davies's asides on Taskmaster 😉
It's also good because I can unplug the 3.5mm from the back of the TV and put it into my phone and 'stream' that way,
TV and Denon have an optical cable matched pair, maybe I'll order a cable and then be back in a few days having changed my opinion radically.
The Wiim products are streamers and would connect to your Denon unit with RCA cables
Wiim does amps too.
Wiim Amp would connect to TV, your wifi AND give you a bluetooth access point if you must use bluetooth. I've got one connected via optical out from my TV. Plus gives me access to a fk tonne of internet radio streams, Soundcloud, streaming music services and all from one handy and well designed app.
It's also good because I can unplug the 3.5mm from the back of the TV and put it into my phone and 'stream' that way,
That's not particularly ideal either.
Headphone jacks are, as the name suggests, designed to drive headphones. RCA connections are expecting either what's called a Line level input or, if it's a true phono stage from a record deck, something considerably lower.
It may well have worked fine for ten years and will probably work fine for ten more, but there is a risk of damaging the equipment. The headphone signal is an amplified signal, which is not a great combination with the fingers of a deaf person on the volume control.
matched pair
Huh?
You mean a single cable with identical connectors at both ends?
are the DAB stations you want to listen to not available through your TV?
Headphone jacks are, as the name suggests, designed to drive headphones. RCA connections are expecting either what's called a Line level input or, if it's a true phono stage from a record deck, something considerably lower.
It may well have worked fine for ten years and will probably work fine for ten more, but there is a risk of damaging the equipment. The headphone signal is an amplified signal, which is not a great combination with the fingers of a deaf person on the volume control.
Yes, the guy at the hi-fi shop said to beware of that - so we have the TV set down low and then the hi-fi amplifies it up. Normal volume on the TV is '10' out of I think 100, maybe 70 for some odd reason, if we turn it up then it goes up to 12 or 13. I have suggested to the wife that using the hi-fi remote for volume control would be better but that would mean having another remote on the arm of the chair and so has been vetoed.
By matched pair I mean both ends - the TV and the Denon - have optical connector sockets, although I have since learned / read that the Denon is output, so that's no good. The new systems I've been looking at have optical in, I think.
are the DAB stations you want to listen to not available through your TV?
No, but possibly through Fire stick. Or my phone which can then BT in to a device. Which is making the Tangent look most likely for now, as I could get the Ampster BT II, stream music and radio through it from the phone, and if that's a pain then get the DAB tuner module and join them up.
I have suggested to the wife that using the hi-fi remote for volume control would be better but that would mean having another remote on the arm of the chair and so has been vetoed.
With the DM41 the optical input is fixed and independent of the TV remote volume control, so to control the volume you need the hi-fi remote. I imagine most systems would work in the same way.
So our set up is the TV remote is only used to turn the TV on, Freeview stations are accessed via our Humax so all channel changes made on that and the Denon for volume control. So after turning on , two remotes are in use.
I have suggested to the wife that using the hi-fi remote for volume control would be better but that would mean having another remote on the arm of the chair and so has been vetoed.
If you can connect the TV up to the new amp via HDMI, then HDMI-ARC will send audio out from the TV and HDMI-CEC will mean that the same remote volume control will work the amp if it's switched on and the TV instead when the amp is off.
(... assuming both ends support it.)
The tangent amp doesnt have HDMI, but it does have optical in, so if the tv has optical out you could do it that way.
... it would still mean two remotes though.
I have a tangent ampster and i am very impressed with the sound quality. I don't use the radio on it and it seems to have no radio display so I don't know how that works. I don't have to use an app to use it but maybe you do for the radio? Dunno
There isn't a radio / tuner on the ampster. If you want that you need to have the Tuner ii as well (or an equiv)
Or, you could use a phone app as the tuner to get Internet radio, and then stream that into the ampster.
https://www.richersounds.com/tangent-tuner-ii/
ah. Must also use the same remote I guess as it has a DAB button on the remote and a number of preset buttons?
ah. Must also use the same remote I guess as it has a DAB button on the remote and a number of preset buttons?
Yes there are a few different units you can mix and match depanding on what you want, but just use the same remote.
Spent some time in at Richer today, and not any closer.
I'm not sure I'm not just being upsold to the Wiim, or if these are genuine issues so looking at real users and their experience.
I was pretty much set on the Tangent, but then was put off by
1/ bluetooth (BT) quality isn't as good as wireless streaming
2/ BT won't go through walls, 10m line of sight at best
3/ if anything comes into my phone while using it to stream it'll drop out briefly, or if it's a call then that'll come over the stereo
4/ Tangent doesn't have an HDMI for the TV so lower quality and HDMI Arc enables the TV remote to control the volume.
5/ erm... I think that's it.
Some googling confirms this is 'true' but as I say, any real life experience. Part of googling also said get an old / cheap phone or tablet and put close to the Tangent and use that as the music stream device so that it isn't interrupted
Thoughts? Wiim 'fixes' these issues but is even with a bit of help on the price still double that of the Tangent.
This fits the bill, it's a bit bloody spendy though!!!
https://www.ceiling-speakers.co.uk/products/marantz-m1-wireless-streaming-amplifier
Better to seek forgiveness?
Wiim Ultra is a great bit of kit, excellent software and a doddle/pleasure to use, bought a Wiim ultra setup for my mates kids Xmas and he loves it.
The Ultra is often on sale for £279
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Appreciate it may be brilliant but isn't answering the question / needs an amp to go with it, etc.
Likewise the Marantz, I'm sure it's great but it's also 5x the cost of the unit I'm trying to get experiences of, and nearly 3x what the Wiim I'm being upsold to
I know this is a free forum and people can thread drift to their heart's content but does anyone have any actual insight on the question.
Q is bluetooth really as much of a PITA as the shop said?
A BUY THIS AT 5x THE PRICE!
Cant edit post as the thread appears to be borked by a link further up in thread.
If i was you I’d buy the Wiim network streamer below, connects to your speakers, connects to your tv with hdmi, will stream using your phone/ipad app, has Bluetooth, has airplay, has parametric EQ to improve your audio in room.
https://www.richersounds.com/wiim-amp-space-grey/
That would work and has wi-fi £400 is a bit easier to swallow than the £800 Marantz!
The pro-version, that is, the lesser models don't have wi-fi.
Yeah it’s only £319, was down to £269 a few weeks ago in the sales.
Wait a few weeks and no doubt it’ll be on sale somewhere,
Here’s a review from Amir on ASR (Audio Science Review), a measurement based website without the audiophile/subjective bullshit that usually accompanies hifi stuff
mattyfez - The model I linked does have wifi
I think teh non pro version doesn't have wi-fi though, only bluetooth.
The pro-version is like £400?
Maybe I got mixed up - seems the forum is a bit broken so I can't click on links or edit posts etc....
you got mixed up with something else, check the links
Jesus **** christ this thread is tedious aint it?
wiim integrated streaming amplifier at £319 is what you need, as links aren't working google it.
can I bring you back 'on topic'.... you suggested the Tangent kit when I started this thread a few days ago, I went to look at it today and the shop brought up some possible issues / why they think I should get the Wiim instead.
How's your experience against the issues they raised? I know I said they'd put me off, but that's what I'm trying to ascertain, is that real or are they just upselling me?
Any other opinions welcomed, but if I'm mivering over whether the issues on the Tangent can be set aside because it's still half the price of the Wiim, the answer is definitively not another variant on the Wiim theme but at nearly £900 😉 - forgiveness or not!
(and yes - seems like one of the links that don't function as links has buggered the thread up. Hope that's what you mean by tedious, not the content, although keeping you lot on track is like herding cats)
Also seems like I can't cut and paste text - so yes, £319 wiim would definitely do what I need, question is whether Tangent at £149 also will or are the issues that the shop raised really issues? And leave me £170 for some high end directional cable (yes, that's the sound of a deliberate can of worms being opened 😉 )
I have the ampster BTII - I really like it but I mostly use it hard wired, and it's sat under my TV. The bluetooth works great streaming from my phone but I dont try to use it from a different room so I can't really comment on range.