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How do they calculate council tax? Purchase price would be just over £330k.
How much would an energy 'A' with water solar panel save over a 'D' house of similar size (small 4-bed)?
I know they won't grass the lawn or lay carpets, but what else am I going to need to know that they won't include in a purchase price?
Am I mad to consider it?
Things they won't include..... Suitable parking for the estate.
Suitable parking for the estate.
It's got enough for me.
It's not you I'm worried about. It's the 1400 other cars that are all over the road pavement grass making it lethal to walk around.
On our estate they got the initial banding wrong on some properties and increased the banding after 2 years so I wouldn’t bank on it staying the same or them getting it right.
We did get turf with ours but it seems to cover up all the crap and debris that they couldn’t be bothered to shift when they finished.
Parking is fine for us and in our cul-de-sac but other parts of the estate aren’t great. Generally it is due to people being inconsiderate.
NHBC covers your for most major things for the 1st ten years.
Things they won’t include….. Suitable parking for the estate.
Oh come on ow it's not the case everywhere! How you manage to stay alive in your carmageddon town is beyond me!
Back to the op. Who's the developer and where are we talking in the country? Cant see how any new property is coming in at a d rating?
New is A with solar.
Our current 1970's is D.
Miller Homes, it's in Scotland.
O-ho, which Miller development might that be? 😉
Think we're looking at some £330k Millers near you...
Miller are very good. High quality and good customer service.
Like all tf new builds it will crack its plaster as it dries out,especially round stairs so no wallpaper for first few years.
Only thing to consider if buying all new white goods/things too. They are great new but tend all to break at the same time.
We did get turf with ours but it seems to cover up all the crap and debris that they couldn’t be bothered to shift when they finished.
Yeah that seem pretty standard. Our old house was about a decade old when we got it, tried to do some gardening and even trying to plant a small shrug was hard work taking out bits of broken brick a few inches under the grass.
Build quality and a garden bigger than a postage stamp are what are missing form most new builds.
JP
Am I getting new nearly neighbours?
NHBC covers your for most major things for the 1st ten years.
LOL! Not worth the paper it’s written on.
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/nhbc.co.uk
Buy a house that’s built properly. So nothing in the last 30 or 40 years at least.
Am I mad to consider it?
Yes. Been in the trade in the past and I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole. In my current job I went to a housing estate which was being built and had to chat with the site manager. He said he wouldn’t buy one, says it all really.
Think we’re looking at some £330k Millers near you…
Am I getting new nearly neighbours?
Mibbes.
New is A with solar.
Our current 1970’s is D.
Got you now, I thought you were suggesting you had the choice between a D and A new build.
Savings imho wont be that much, there'll definitely be a bit but the rating will come from the newer boiler, led lighting and the solar etc which all gets calculated in to give you the sbem calcs for the property, things such as the insulation wont be massively better as unfortunately we are still building in a lot of cases to a basic minimum.
As for the nhbc comment, the standards and inspections have been massively improved of late so there shouldn't be any need to ever require the warranty side of things, if, I repeat if, the builder is up to scratch. It really only covers wholly for the 10 years on things like subsidence anyway, the other cover reduces over the term via delapidatons.
Do your research on the site and it's possible previous uses, if you think that might cause issues ask questions, theres usually a lot of drawings available on the LA website that will have gone in with the application, so you can have a look at things like standard foundation design etc, what they plan to do with all the top water etc.
We got a new build from a fairly niche high end developer in the south east about 5 years ago. It's been great overall, a few snags but nothing major. We didn't have carpets but arranged for our guy to come in before completion date to fit them so it was ready to go. Same with internet connection (have to pay a first time fee with bt).
Otherwise, highish estate cost, council tax will be the same as other houses of the same cost in the village. Haggle a discount and stamp duty thrown in (pretty standard). If you're buying off plan theres more risk, and you have to find a buyer for your current place who is willing for a long delay between exchange and completion (a year in our case)
Hmmm, I'm still not convinced.
Reasons for doing it is they would trade in our BTL (yay!) and slightly bigger house with all bedrooms upstairs, a garage and a garden that doesn't take up so much time and money.
We would sell our main home privately, it would go easily in Dunblane.
I can't say I'm enamored with the idea, my wife's family have had nightmare experience with new build (wonky and collapsing timber frame...) and I'm aware it's upping our costs just as kids are leaving home.
That said, it solves a bunch of stuff that's a headache and time eater presently.
Aye, it's a trade off Matt, in an ideal world I'd never buy one (again!, did it once, it was shit, lasted 7 months in it)...
But sometimes when I've got my head full of stuff, a pile of shit to do, no time to do what I want, and something else happens to #thisoldhouse I'd bite yer hand off for a soulless box! 🙂
The new build will only be 'A' rated because of the solar heating and that will not even supply all of your hot water needs for 6 months of the year. I suspect the new build would barely scrape a B rating without it, and much more important to know how much insulation is in it and also how well it was installed. There are a lot of stories of badly fitted insulation in new builds so as above you need to do some research on the developer.As I am sure you are aware new builds always have a slight premium in price over older houses, depends if you are happy to pay that. Lots of new builds also have rooms that are slightly too small and a garage just too small to fit a car in. Like a normal house but scaled down 15%.
Personally I wouldn't ever buy one.
How big is the estate? There's one local to me that they've been building on for over 20 years. No one wants to buy an old new build when they can have a new new build so if you needed to sell up you'll be looking at a big loss so less of an issue on the smaller estates.
I've also heard you should use your own solicitor rather than theirs (possibly a watchdog tip?)
No one wants to buy an old new build when they can have a new new build so if you needed to sell up you’ll be looking at a big loss
There is a certain demographic of folk that like new stuff, having bought a new house and realising how much needs done to it, if I was doing it again I'd buy an older new house tbh.
And you'll only lose money on it if it's in an area that's depreciated, which Matt is not affected by if he's staying in the same area as he is now....
The new build will only be ‘A’ rated because of the solar heating
Not really the case. The calcs on a new build will have required much more than that, a pressure test requirement for starters.
As above Miller are a decent outfit but each individual site can be better or worse depending hugely on the site manager and nhbc inspector.
Main reasons for me not buying one would be because I would hate "estate living" the actual build quality is easily spotted when you drive on site.
Have a good good look round, go see some that are mid construction. Theres things to look out for. Come back on here and let us know what you saw and people can always give you further advice.
One factor to consider is future development of the estate and surroundings.
There are some large estates of new builds around us that have caused no end of shit for buyers:
- people buying 1st or 2nd wave devlopments on an estate of "excutive" homes. Builder couldn't sell all the excutive homes so got the planning ammended to fill the rest of estate with cheaper 3 bed homes as they reckon they'll shift. Buyers of first or second wave of exec homes staring at 100-150k of negative equity.
- people buying houses on large estate developed with loads of nice open landscaped spaces and parkland. Which has now all been built on.
- people buying houses with abolsutely zero ammenities or transport links. Developer promised that there be shops, local amenities, school, cycle path connections etc etc. Zero materialised because an adjacent council development failed to materialise.
Some new build estates are nice, but don't take any promise of future development or lack of development seriously.
If i was buying a new build* it'd be all about the plot. I couldn't deal with living cheek by jowl with the neighbours with only enough space for a wheelie bin between houses and the having the street littered with loads of cars.
Every new build estate will, due to the requirement to fill gaps in the overall layout, have a few plots which aren't like that. I'd be looking for one of those.
* which I wouldn't, but only out of personal preference ('cause I 'm a retro kinda guy), rather than concerns about build quailty. There are a lot more shockingly badly built old houses than there are new ones in my , rather extensive experience.
There are a lot more shockingly badly built old houses than there are new ones
Most certainly!
Not really the case. The calcs on a new build will have required much more than that, a pressure test requirement for starters.
The air pressure test is irrelevant to what I stated. It is a basic fact that when producing a SAP score and EPC, adding solar will make a 'B' jump up to an 'A'.
It is pretty much impossible to score an 'A' without some onsite generation from pv or solar thermal.
Adding solar has a disproportionate effect on the EPC compared to say adding more insulation, improving air tightness or having triple glazing.
There is a reason why developers often stick a small solar array on new builds. It is a cheap way of scoring a decent SAP and EPC. What they should be doing is investing in building facric.
Developers do not even have to pressure test each house on a new build, only each build of a particular design, of which there may be hundreds.
Inspectors will not inspect every house on a new build estate, only a sample of each build type. You are reliant on the developer self assessing for quality in most instances.
Not really the case. The calcs on a new build will have required much more than that, a pressure test requirement for starters.
Ahhh ahaha. Haha ahahhah.
Theoretically yes, but our a-rated DWH plasterboard tent leaks like a rusty Talbot Horizon. It may be built on a polystyrene raft and be stuffed full of insulation, but none of the windows were sealed to the cavity, except by a skim of mastic to the edge; the sills were especially through-flow-ventilated.
The loft insulation seems to have been fitted by carpet bombing the building with rockwool and hoping for the best.
Stereotypically the “turf” is laid on industrial building rubble mixed with some dust from a Dyson.
Oh and the cretinous handover process led to 50% of us in the estate failing to meet the criteria for FIT from the 1.8kwh solar on the roof.
Supposedly it has a 5 year guarantee on top of the NHBC mark-your-own-bogroll 10yr joke. The only way to get them to do anything at all is blockade the sales office and invite customers to come see what they’re getting into.
Never, ever, ever again.
Check the LBTT situation too. You may end up with a short term LBTT Additional Dwelling Supplement if you trade in the BTL and the timings don't align.
It sort of gets my back up a wee bit, the delight with which people piss all over new build housing, as if buying a new build reflects some sort of lack of moral fibre on the part of the buyer.
We went out of our way to try and build old stock housing, but it's just ridiculous, results in you buying some shocking old 'fixer upper' (not practical with a two year old to look after and two parents working full time) or having to find another £35k on top of your mortgage and deposit to compete in the 'offers over' market, or of course buying so far from where you work that you spend your life commuting.
We reluctantly bought a soul-less Barrat new build box in between two motorways and an airport near Edinburgh. Yes Barrat were a bunch of sneaky, grasping bastards who passed as much of the development cost onto the buyer as they could (free Openreach fibre install for Barrat = price gouging BT broadband monopoly for buyers. No council 'adoption' costs for Barrat = extra estate factoring fees for buyers).
BUT the house is fine, small, yes, but that's just the housing market in general. Structurally fine, well insulated, lovely wee neighbourhood, village is quickly beginning to feel like home. We don't need the stress of trying to find and buy old stock housing if we can buy a suitable looking new build again. Wife has already told me in no uncertain terms to leave the sales staff alone and not ask any awkward questions.
Happy to hear Miller have a decent rep, wasn't sure where they stood in comparison to Barrat. We can't afford Cala... 🙁
But the sap calc is reliant on the stated air pressure test and achieving the figure, I did right at the top of my second post mention the fact we are insulating to a minimum in most cases, I can't deny solar will push the rating up though but there's hardly any new builds around here that have had it fitted of late. I also appreciate (ive built the odd one 😉) that pressure testing is hit and miss and certain developers will pick the one to be tested and may give it the extra mile when prepping pre plaster,
The nhbc are inspecting much more often on key stages also, they've been bitten badly on roof detailing in the last few years I believe so are much keener, you'll find an inspector based virtually on site on the bigger developments.
But as ever the quality will be down to cost and which developer is controlling/driving that.
It sort of gets my back up a wee bit, the delight with which people piss all over new build housing, as if buying a new build reflects some sort of lack of moral fibre on the part of the buyer.
I only have an issue with rubbish developers not new build. I live in a new build that I designed and built myself and have worked for high end developers in the past. You just need to be aware of the pitfalls, just as you need to be when buying old housing stock.
Nothing wrong with new build as such, sounds like you weighed up the options and made a good call.
There are some good developments, but there is a reason why lenders are more cautious with new builds. It's a risk (both good and bad) versus an older house where you can more easily evaluate the risk.
Mind you, our house is pretty old and it's stung us for it's fair share of nasty surprises!
But the sap calc is reliant on the stated air pressure test and achieving the figure
Yes but the issue as outlined by hot_fiat is that you can have a house that was meant to be air tight on paper, but is not actually tested on site and ends up being a leaky sieve that no amount of insulation or solar panels is going to fix.
My self build achieved a pressure test of 0.33ach @50 Pa.
I know what a pressure test is and how to get a good score.
One factor to consider is future development of the estate and surroundings
It's an infill development of 56 houses. No room to expand at all.
Plot, one of the reasons we are going 'hmmm' is that the plot is on a cul-de-sac of three, adjoining woods to side and partially to rear, overlooking the swale and not actually *on* the road into the estate. Garden will be south west facing. The cheaper houses at the other end back onto A9.
We reluctantly bought a soul-less Barrat
Could be worse, we bought a........ Persimmon! Oh teh horror! The buying process was, fine. The house is, fine (admittedly the living room is too small, but that's out poor choosing). We have nobody directly behind, we have nobody in front, the next houses to the front are a fair distance away and well down a hill, so we have a good view to the nearest hills. Snags were very minor and easily sorted. Garden is a good size and shape. No traffic down our street. Several parks within a few hundred yards. Woodland/river/whatever walks nearby.
The alternative was exactly as you say. Buy a 70s(ish) house that the owner appears to have died in, pay the same amount as the new house then also pay a hefty amount to bring it all up to date
We've been in our new build for 4 years now and have had no major problems after the initial snagging things were sorted.
However, others on the estate have had issues with blocked drainage (full of rubble and waste!) and a few other issues that thankfullyhaven't affected us.
The major issue on the estate is the council not adopting the green areas, so being assigned to a management company (FirstPort) that the residents have to pay for. That in itself is not a hyge problem - we were aware of it and agreed to it before we signed up. However, the condition that they (Linden) handed it over in was appaling. Half of the grass is thread bare, dead trees have been dug up that still had plastic wrapping round the roots, the play park is verging on dangerous with exposed rubble through the grass and runner matting pretty much just thrown on the ground. Apparently it will get sorted. Apparently.
My self build achieved a pressure test of 0.33ach @50 Pa.
I know what a pressure test is and how to get a good score
Well done you, I never once suggested you didn't mind.
You seem to miss out the bits where I've agreed with you such as sporadic testing on various houses.
If we're bragging I once achieved the best ever air tightness result the testing company had ever come across in a traditionally built house, 2 leaves of masonry with standard full fill insulation.
But....it was a one off and we spent an age with attention to detail, even sealing projections of cable through plaster board.
I find the lack of adoption frustrating - I've no idea why it exists as an option, let alone the default, and no idea why there isn't a council tax reduction if the council aren't paying to repair\light\mow the common areas..
that's good re. infill. It removes a lot of the big newbuild risks that could wipe you out.
I find the lack of adoption frustrating – I’ve no idea why it exists as an option, let alone the default, and no idea why there isn’t a council tax reduction if the council aren’t paying to repair\light\mow the common areas..
Agreed, although in fairness to Barrat/the developers, I don't know if it is just the councils spotting an opportunity to save money by continuing to charge the same tax whilst forcing us to go private for the upkeep, it's effectively a stealth tax. I don't actually mind the cost, it's buttons in the scheme of things, I just hate being beholden to another third party, as it's complicated to the point of not being worth the bother trying to change contract etc.
I notice we pay £200/quarter for autumn/winter to have 1 grit bin refilled. Sure, divided between 50 houses it's only £4/quarter, but it's still a total scam! But would it be worth going to the effort of trying to secure a 2/3 majority of all houses on the estate just to get this cost omitted? And then how do we divvy up the £5 for a sack of rock salt that we actually require? 😆
Agree with all of the above, we're on our second factor in 4 years as the first one was so crap. However, tbf, this new lot are actually pretty on the ball, even to the point of contracting a local farmer to clear the roads during a heavy snow period.
mashr - is your Persimmon House timber-framed? If so has it been checked for the fire retardant material being installed?
TL:DR
If you do go ahead get your solicitor to set up retaining some of the purchase price. This gives them some motivation to complete the items on the snagging list within that time period.
We found this out the hard way.
putting finances to one side, push hard to get snags sorted whilst the company are still building the estate. Once they've gone they're much harder to get back
FB-ATB
Subscriber
mashr – is your Persimmon House timber-framed? If so has it been checked for the fire retardant material being installed?
Yeah but only very recently due to slack-ness on my part